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Nicole
USA
46 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 10 2006 : 11:41:12 PM
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Hello
I am fairly new to this site. I have been meditating for about 6 months twice daily and continue to benifit greatly from the AYP lessons.
Although, recently it has been brought to my attention that while in a deep meditive state there is a chance one can open a door which permits spirit possession, especially demonic spirit possession. 
Can anyone shine some light onto this subject?
Thanks
Nicole |
Edited by - Nicole on Jan 11 2006 11:34:10 AM |
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 12:21:43 AM
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Dear Nicole,
I’ve been meditating since 1975. There is no spirit possession in meditation. There is only self-discovery, peace, joy and a connection with all things.
Please do not let superstition or any one else’s opinion worry you, but continue on your journey and find for yourself the benefits and joy that will follow.
In all love,
Kathy
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 12:40:08 AM
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Hari Om
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicole
Hello
recently it has been brought to my attention that while in a deep meditive state there is a chance one can open a door which permits spirit possession,
Hello Nicole.
My thoughts on this are, that what you put your attention on grows stronger in your life.
I not not sure of your beliefs, or your actions outside of your meditations. This is where I would consider any negative influence for what happens during ones meditation. And not sure if you are practicing the AYP approach. That said, through ones meditations sattvia grows (that is, a level of purity) within the mind/consciousness/awareness. Purity is the removal those influences that are cosidered tamasic ( dark, negative,sloth). Hence, the notion of possession and all of that is not a function of ones dive into the transcendent, but the life one leads outside of the meditative state.
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 10:28:12 AM
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Hi Nicole:
Thanks for bringing this question to the forum after we covered it in email. As you can see, those who have been meditating for some time have had a similar experience.
To add to the mix, here is my original email reply to the question:
"Possession" has no bearing in deep meditation, which operates far beyond the realm of such things.
The new AYP book, Deep Meditation, clears up most questions that can come up on deep meditation, including the "negative energy" thing. You may wish to review it.
I would add that the only power that entities have is the power we give them. By practicing deep meditation we are not even in the same neighborhood, so the question of empowering negative energies is mute. This is also covered in the AYP lessons on Samyama.
There are other mental techniques (not AYP) that work on the level of entities, and there can certainly be problems there. Those methods can not rightly be called "meditation." Meditation is the journey of attention from an object (mantra) to pure bliss consciousness with no objects (samadhi). In AYP-style deep meditation it is one step and gone -- express car right past all the other planes of existence to inner silence. Swoosh! And that is what we are stabilizing more and more each time we meditate -- inner silence, which is impervious to the energies you ask about. So if we have had problems with entities in the past, we will be much less inclined to once we are established in a stable routine of twice-daily deep meditation. Entities cannot latch on to inner silence. They can only latch on to the obsessive fears that feed them. There is no fear in pure bliss consciousness.
Interestingly, those who are constantly ranting about possession are fostering it. Those who are always warning about the devil are, in fact, empowering the negative forces. Better to meditate, live your life with naturally increasing purity, and you will find yourself letting go of those who engage in fear mongering. In fact, by your mere presence you can reduce their fear via your own progress. Even just a little light can dispel the darkness.
I suggest you bring your questions to the AYP forums for additional points of view. Then many can benefit from the discussion.
The guru is in you.
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 10:54:23 AM
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Hi Nicole - welcome. I've heard similar things in the past, and it always scared the bejeezus out of me (which is generally the intention). I suspect the people who told you this are 'religious', rather than spiritual, and largely ignorant of their own inner process. When you cast your gaze inward, whether in meditation or in self-examination, you invariably encounter the dark side of yourself, along with the light, simply because it's THERE, and no amount of denial is going to make it go away. I think that those who warn of 'demons' got freaked out when they encountered their own, and proceeded to warn everyone against meditation and its evils.
The truth is that we all have a dark side and it's not a big deal unless we deny it, then all hell breaks loose. I agree with Frank that "what you put your attention on grows stronger in your life". When you meditate you're placing your attention on that which is pure at the center of yourself. But it's not a free ride, and along the way you may encounter some information about yourself that you really didn't want to know, which some people conveniently label 'demons'. I personally believe that getting familiar with one's darker side has the surprising effect of making one a more loving and compassionate person. You begin to get an inkling as to what drives other people whose intentions are generally deemed 'dark' or 'sinful'.
If you've been benefitting from your practice for 6 months, that's proof in itself that it's a good thing. :)
m
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 11:40:27 AM
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| Its funny when I read these warnings as my Ayurvedic teacher used to say that a meditative mind was the BEST PROTECTION from these kinds of entities and possesions. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 5:40:16 PM
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Hi Nicole,
It is a fact (in my experience and of others I know) that as your levels of purity rise you become more open to others energies similar to an empath.My guru warns students to avoid the ranters and ravers or working with spirits as do most yogis I believe.By encouraging these thoughts is as Frank says increasing their hold on you.Although psychic attack is possible you could liken it to voodoo in that if you are told someone is sticking pins in you , it increases the effect.Simply avoid those that prey on others simply to make gains for themselves.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 6:57:51 PM
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| Good answer Meg. I would have liked to say the same thing, but I guess it would not have turned out so good. I guess that is why Yogani says "don't stay with anything that comes up during meditation, just favor the mantra", and that way what Frank says "what you put your attention on grows stronger in your life" makes sense. Wow, its funny how you know stuff but it takes somebody else to put it together and you go...aaahhaaa. |
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Nicole
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 10:46:50 AM
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Thank you everyone for your responses.
Meg, I have to agree with Shanti, your answer is good. The people that brought this up are "religious" and naive spiritually. Knowing this, I didn't get to worked up about what they said but it did strike my curiousity.
I also agree with Frank "what you put your attention on grows stronger in your life". Because all thoughts/feelings literally make an impackt on the brain. So when you continously think/feel something you are strengthing, or feeding it.
Well thanks again, it's refreshing and greatly appreciated to get feed back from those who know what they are talking about :)
I look forward to future disscusions!
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 11:48:09 AM
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Indeed a great answer from Meg.
Such people are often trying to scare the Bejeezus into you.
Some people think that anything which produces grace is in business competition with Jesus and has to be stopped. An insult to Jesus, as if he were a Bill-Gates-style monopolist!
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2006 : 7:28:11 PM
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I hesitate to add this....but.......the Tibetans totally believe in this. But Tibetan Buddhism is a huge ball of rituals and issues. But some of the more obscure yoga literature also refers to this sort of thing. And it can give you the willies.
I used to worry about this. I worry about it less now. I don't think I can verbalize my reasons, though. The only practical application of this whole issue is that insofar as one can describe one's neuroses/psychoses as one's "demons", there is a chance, I think, that this work can lead not to an emptying out but to a strengthening of those dysfunctions. It's a similar problem to the "how do I know it's really my inner guru talking?" issue. solution: practice AYP. Don't vary the practice for a good long while until you get enough clarity to know that you're removing mud from your windshields rather than inadvertantly building up your fears and darker cravings. If you do the former, you'll have no doubt whatsoever re: the latter. Hope that helps. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 12 2006 8:48:02 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2006 : 01:10:16 AM
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I think if you're going to worry about this kind of thing, you should REALLY worry, b'c there's a whole lot of stuff out there that could seriously harsh your mellow. Nicole referred to spirit possession, and I've also heard of spells being cast, energies being dispersed, and so on, generally with ill intent. I don't believe in it. Or, I don't believe in its power over us. It's possible that the Tibetans know something I don't (!! ya think??) but I'm not worried in the least about my psyche being overrun by demons. The only time I'd start to worry is if, instead of focussing your attention inward toward the 'light' for 2 hrs. a day, you sat and focussed on your dark, unsavory side. If that was the case, there may be trouble. All of this that we're referring to is superstition, which is sometimes based on truth, but more often is fodder for naive souls who seek the truth outside of themselves.
I'd be curious to read some of the obscure yoga literature you refer to, Jim, if you have any references. Thanks. |
Edited by - Manipura on Jan 13 2006 05:08:39 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2006 : 09:34:21 AM
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BTW, let's keep in mind how 'Tibetan Buddhism' evolved -- it absorbed many of the existing folk beliefs of Tibet, which are not in any real sense 'Buddhist' in origin.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2006 : 11:25:39 AM
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"I'd be curious to read some of the obscure yoga literature you refer to, Jim, if you have any references. Thanks"
I'm not home right now, so I can't find the actual page references, but start with "taming the kundalini" by Satyananda |
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Nicole
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2006 : 12:47:17 AM
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| Jim and His Karma, please don't hesitate to add any insight you have on this. I think it's important to bring it up. I am also interested in the obscure yoga literature, if you don't mind sharing. |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2006 : 8:14:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicole
Hello
I am fairly new to this site. I have been meditating for about 6 months twice daily and continue to benifit greatly from the AYP lessons.
Although, recently it has been brought to my attention that while in a deep meditive state there is a chance one can open a door which permits spirit possession, especially demonic spirit possession.
Can anyone shine some light onto this subject?
Thanks
Nicole
The subject of possession by spirits or entities is more to do with the practice of magic and sorcery than with meditation. To lay yourself open to this sort of thing you would have to be involved in a totally different form of concentration exercises (I hesitate to call these practices meditation at all)
To bring spirits or entities into your objective or subjective circle they have to be consciously or unconsciously evoked.
Unconscious evocation is so rare as to be almost unrecorded, where it has been most cases have turned out to be some form of mental illness, so don't worry its not going to happen to anyone doing AYP, as Yogani has already said you are not even in the same neighbourhood I will add to that and say you are not even on the same planet.
On the subject of negative or evil entities there is no such thing, entities are neutral they are coloured only by your intent, in other words the same entity can be evoked as an angel or a demon purely by the intent of the person evoking them.
YOU are in no danger the only thing to fear is fear itself.
Be happy 
RICHARD |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2006 : 10:20:57 PM
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Hari Om Sarvesvara
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Hello Folks, ( reposted, found a spelling error)
All this attention on this subject is an accident going some place to happen... People spend years going in the opposite direction, yet the conversation is putting the 'worm on the hook' for negative/tamastic energy to find a home.
[By the way, this goes under the subject 'fraidy-cat Frank' !]
My conversation, if you care to read further is about Shadkarma - or the 6 objectives one can put/spend their attention on. Practices fall into the following catagories:
Sattvic - Shanti mantram, yagya, and rituals that are uplifting and 'peaceful or shanti' to society and to the native.
Rajasic - Vasikaran and Stambhanam, practices that 'captivates' or 'immobilizes' - creating bondage and/or obstructing others.
Tamasic - Vidvesana, Ucchatana, and Marama practices for dissension, aversion and eradication - creating differences and difficulties, hate and fear, and finally 'marana' or causing death.
Now, for those practicing Jyotish, you are aware of Gulika, Mandi,Yama, Rahu and Trimsamsa ( the D30 chart division) dealing with evils, punishment, sub-conscious, and diseases. All are possible on this earth and some people with this 'blemish' spend life-after-life working out or mitigating serious impediments due to past actions. I will not comment further on this subject as it's outside of the AYP OSHA standards and Better Home and Gardens étiquette guidelines
(((( ))))
WE are in a positon to choose and live by that choice; May you choose wisely as the influence will be 'round for quite a long time.
I leave with a simple mantra that is used in every yagya or homam for peace, purification and upliftment:
Om apavitrah pavitrovaa sarvauvasthaam gatopivaa
yahsmareth pundareekoaksham bahynabhyantarah shuchihi
It says "Om… wheather pure or impure, whether all places are permeated by purity or impurity
Whoever opens his (her) vision to the lotus eyed Lord gains inner and outer purity."
Note 'lotus eyed Lord' is shop talk for 'expanded vision of Unbounded Awareness' or Pure consciousness.
That what you put your attention on grows stronger in your life...
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on Jan 15 2006 11:21:22 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2006 : 02:47:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicole
Jim and His Karma, please don't hesitate to add any insight you have on this. I think it's important to bring it up. I am also interested in the obscure yoga literature, if you don't mind sharing.
I already offered my best insight in my first reply in this thread. it was a short posting, but based on long experience. Do AYP per instructions and you'll be fine. Anything that distracts you, whether it's your deep-seated fears or Casper The Friendly Ghost or anything else does so via mind and 'experiences'. Yogani says again and again to not pursue experiences, to simply let them go by and enjoy them dispassionately. I can assure you that this very simple-seeming advice will sidestep you from all sorts of problems. Keep coming back to mantra and let go. You'll be fine. Don't give it another thought. When you get over the next hill or two you'll see that this is the case. Don't spin wheels on this.
Just my advice, FWIW. |
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"negative energy"
