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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 01:07:49 AM
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| Ok, so kechari 3 is easy for me. I practice it every day and have been feeling the urge to progress. First practice of stage 4 has been with alternate nostril breathing using no hands and it is going fine, no problems but the touch of the tongue on the inner nostril only needs to be pretty light in order to close that nostril in favor of the opposite side, SO... As far as going deeper with the tongue, I am able to press the tip of the tongue a bit deeper stretching the inner nostril hole a bit and feeling the sensitive tissue inside but am wondering where to go from there. Is attempting to go deeper significant or have I already gotten there? Seems like a thick tongue and a small opening (please save your off color jokes, I have already thought of them), but seriously, are any of you at stage 4? Yogani, can you give any advice here? |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 01:33:11 AM
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I'm at a similar place. I can get the tip of my tongue into the nasal passages enough to feel some of the sensitivity in there and do alternate-nostril breathing, but I don't think I'm getting all the way up to the point between the eyebrows. I figure I just need more tongue length, which I'm trying to achieve by tongue "milking," however, I do also kind of get the same impression you do--of trying to get something too big into too small a space, even with the tongue turned on its side as Yogani describes.
Also eagerly awaiting to see what the more experienced or longue-tongued practitioners have to say... |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 11:36:10 AM
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Hi Victor:
Stage 4 kechari is not critical for effective long term yoga practice. Neither is stage 3. Stage 2, balanced with the rest of our routine will be more than enough, as is stage 1 for those who are drawn to it, and no further.
Ultimately it is our bhakti that determines how far we will go with kechari, and how little of it we may be using in the long run. In the long run, less is more, which doesn't mean we will not be driven to do more in the short run. 
The guru is in you.
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2010 : 7:45:25 PM
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Yogani,
while I realize that less is more and my current practices are very satisfying, I must say that since reading your description of stage 4 kechari that I have become curious to experience what it is about. At first the inner membranes were too tender to handle much contact from the toungue but that has passed. Currently I can press the tongue deeper into the nostril holes but the septum which is quite stiff combined with the thickness of my tongue stops further progress. Also, pressing the tongue deeply into the nostril doesn't feel at all compatible combined with meditation and I have discontinued using it for alternate nostril in pranayama because it limits the depth of exhalation. That said, what place during practice does stage 4 hold and aside from turning the tongue to go deeper, are there any other tips or explanations? |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2010 : 03:37:04 AM
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hi Victor, i experienced with stage 4 for a while and it's very aggressive in my case and kinds of pushes everything higher energetically and ecstatically and brings down a lot more juice from up there but as Yogani says and as you agree "less is more" and stage 2 seems to be the most stable platform with other practices and the less distracting.
namaste |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2010 : 05:37:09 AM
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| Ananda, did you meditate with your tongue stuck inside one nostril or was it something that you explored at other times? seems very distracting during actual sitting practice |
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fcry64
India
53 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2010 : 10:49:17 AM
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same thing here .. not sure how much in it needs to go. the tongue seems thick for the job. need a maneuver i guess. the stimulation experienced sometimes is dramatic , like from no khec to stage 2 khec.
http://www.curebum.com/37/how-to-ma...a-technique/
anyone tried breaking the bone protrusion at the top as mentioned in this link? |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2010 : 11:14:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
Ananda, did you meditate with your tongue stuck inside one nostril or was it something that you explored at other times? seems very distracting during actual sitting practice
hi Victor, nope i never did and i don't see a lot of use in it unless it's with alternate nostril breathing.
i pulled back from meditating with kechari a long way back that's too distracting but i used it a lot with my other practices but not with alternate nostril breathing.
concerning stage 4 it's resting exactly at the third eye above the nostrils between the eye brows and it's powerful and easy to do outside sitting practices but during it's too much distraction.
anyhows i prefer mild stage 2, and i am in self pace mode these days but things are getting better thanks to Yogani's usual advise.
but on the other hand i'm still a beginner in comparison to you and it seems that you can handle much more than i can...
namaste |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2010 : 1:25:08 PM
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fcry64, thats so strange to see my own post on that link! Reading the rest now but some of it sounds rather strange or dangerous. Nowhere does Yogani ever mention breaking the skull and exposing the brain which for one thing would make the brain vulnerable to infection even if it were possible. What I am speaking of is as Yogani describes the stage 4 or pressing the tongue into the nostril. Resting the tongue in the nasopharynx feels very comfortable to me and at this stage feels just right for practices. I also see that stage 4 would be for alternate nostril breathing once the tongue has penetrated the nostril. What I had been doing was just a light touch to seal that nostril and the effect was oddly to prevent the full release of exhalation. While experimenting I found that when the tongue presses deep enough this resistance seems to go away so I think that I have some of the answer to my question.
I had just gotten curious what this stage 4 is like, not interested in doing any damage to the body as yoga should be a gentle process of refinement rather than a trauma to the body. |
Edited by - Victor on Feb 09 2010 2:09:00 PM |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2010 : 2:52:12 PM
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Hi All:
Please, no extreme measures like in the link. 
The rolling of the tongue on it's side as discussed in Lesson 108 is the only means recommended for going to Kechari stage 4. As mentioned earlier, stage 4 is not essential. The only time I would suggest doing it, if at all, is during pranayama, not during deep meditation, unless it is happening automatically then.
The guru is in you.
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2010 : 3:34:06 PM
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Thank you, yogani.
Yes it does feel right during pranayama. I find that often I have a question or feel stuck and that is often at just the right moment that a new door opens and then the understanding integrates pretty rapidly. This seems to be the case with stage 4 which now feels right for pranayama practice. My error in previous practice was not the using of the tongue to regulate nostrils but by not pressing deeply enough into the nostril hole. After a few days the minor discomfort has gone away and this feels to be a completion of basic pranayama technique as the entire body is engaged in a full body mudra or bandha rather than using effort for any individual bandha. It all ties together in a very smooth flow with just a little clunkiness still in the inner nostrils but not a problem really. Not sure how the tongue can reach the third eye point through a nostril but perhaps it is either metaphor or I still have a little ways to go in stage 4. Its really good to have a roadmap with this however! |
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fcry64
India
53 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2010 : 12:16:47 AM
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| yeah .. there seem to be many risks involved with dealin with the cranial cavity itself but hey thats wat many scriptures too talk about and i think some kriya yoga gurus too(i read on yoganiketan, swami satyanada said it in a book) - 'with a lil more practise the tongue goes up even further'(earlier reference was the nasal septum) .. i think they are probably referring to that. like in the link, when it is done under the operations of prana, its all taken care off.. prana to seal off the infections or teh anatomy itself being so powerful to resist any infection for eg. confused |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2010 : 03:20:03 AM
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Its hard to know the exact translation in scriptures.
Stage 4 is nice and smooth now during pranayama. Inhale with tongue inside one nostril, release the tongue to center for retention, then exhale with tongue in the other nostril, then I find that releasing the tongue to center for a couple seconds before inhaling feels right. Not a long retention but just a little pause. I seem to be getting little by little more space in each nostril for the tongue though it only penetrates maybe a half inch, not sure how far the final stage 4 is but it feels close. |
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kechari stage 4
