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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 10:55:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
quote:
Originally posted by adamantclearlight
Now, AYP has almost all these elements.
Adamant
Hi Adamant
I think you may be neglecting the self-inquiry aspect of AYP, it is possible that this may de-link as you describe, especially inquiry like Byron Katie's and other similar one's.
Hi Adamant:
Sparkle makes good point. The AYP approach to self-inquiry is "baseline," and can support any method of inquiry, including Buddhist dependent origination. So the enhancement you are suggesting for AYP is already there by virtue of you mentioning it. 
Whatever works!
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 11:10:16 AM
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Hey Adamant
quote:
Originally posted by adamantclearlight
We're talking apples and oranges now, I'm afraid. Karma is what you make it into; that's right. There's nothing outside the One. But that view doesn't stir up the crud in the channels and release it. More importantly it doesn't perform the task of cutting off future becoming.
No, the view doesn't stir up the crud in the channels and release it. Practices stir up the crud and help release it. The view helps in not allowing more karma to accumulate. At least in my experience. Perhaps we are still talking apples and oranges, I don't know
Love.
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 11:34:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
quote:
Originally posted by adamantclearlight
Now, AYP has almost all these elements.
Adamant
Hi Adamant
I think you may be neglecting the self-inquiry aspect of AYP, it is possible that this may de-link as you describe, especially inquiry like Byron Katie's and other similar one's.
Hi Sparkle, You are absolutely right. I had neglected these, but have spent time reviewing and passing over these in silence. As for Katie's, I only see what she publishes on her site. These are questions. This is not the kind of inquiry that de-links. Katie's questions are more like intro to inquiry. As for AYP, the inquiry method "Who am I?" implies the event of delinking sensation from idea of "I". Yogani's method is very similar to Katie's (that's odd to me for some reason). This seems to me like the "fuzzy" approach, in the sense the details are implied, rather than clarified.
From Lesson 326: http://www.aypsite.org/326.html, which cites Lesson 15: http://www.aypsite.org/15.html
quote:
One of the first places we will notice our ability to inquire effectively will be in how we relate to sensations arising in our body. Due to the mind/body connection, all thinking and feeling have corresponding reflections in our body, which we can experience directly as sensations. In some cases it is obvious. Have you ever known anyone who has literally worried themselves sick?
Less obvious to others will be the hidden emotional and physical discomforts we experience every day as the result of dysfunctional egocentric thinking. If we are able to be with these physical sensations without labeling, without judgment, as the witness, then we can experience an unwinding, and a sense of release. Not only will the symptom go, but so too will the dysfunction behind it gradually dissolve over multiple times we apply this method. This is self-inquiry of the "allowing" kind. It is popular these days, because it is being found to be increasing in effectiveness as world consciousness rises with a greater presence of native awareness in everyone. It is one of the easiest ways to systematically take advantage of the emerging witness in daily living.
Okay. This is good. There's nothing wrong with this at all. However, in the next lesson, Lesson 327 http://www.aypsite.org/327.html:
quote:
For the individual, there is a progression of integrated practices that is mapped out in a step-by-step way throughout these lessons for cultivating the necessary purification and opening. For self-inquiry, there is a progression also. Not that it is required for everyone to go through a progression of self-inquiry methods. One may not even use structured self-inquiry methods at all, and still be going through the process of self-inquiry based on the natural emergence of inner silence and the increasingly clear perceptions of Self (witness) in relation to the objects of experience.
The Self is the witness, that is also true. It is also true that releasing discomforts produces a feeling of joy. After we have gone through this purification process long enough, it will feel really blissful. Then, are we at the stage of "pure bliss consciousness?" One might think so, but it is not so. There is farther to go.
For your average practitioner, this is far enough. One feels better with release of tensions, the world is shinier, and relationships and work improve tremendously. There is a sense of effortlessness about life, which is wonderful in itself.
The next level or perhaps several more levels leads to complete cessation, nirodha. This is verse 2 of the Yoga Sutras "Yoga is the nirodha (cessation) of the modifications of the mind." Those modifications are vibrations. At their finest level, they are but sensations. Which goes to the de-linking method. Nirodha does mean "cessation" not "suppression," as we often wrongly see in translations of Yoga Sutras. Suppression is the opposite and is pure samsara, the usual status quo of egoic behavior, denial and whatnot. The final jhanic release in the Buddha's method is nirodhasamapatti, total cessation of perception and feeling. Which is totally still, silent and deep, so deep the body's functions are barely detectable, but a radiant consciousness is only just realized.
A little word about Advaita: I am going to be harsh about this; I can't see a way around it right now. It is all talk no method. All that talk about there's no karma and no one taking on karma, might be true in the ultimate sense, but the words are absolutely the wrong view. The right view is not about philosophy, but about correctly discerning the anatomy of consciousness, how ignorance results in suffering, and how the right understanding leads to the end of suffering. The sensations are past karma; our identification with them is ignorance; our will to do something about them is new karma.
Also, the notion that enlightenment is some on-going journey is not true either. Sorry Yogani. There is a definite stage one reaches where there are no further definite stages. Of course, life continues, one retains the residue of the karmic body with all its elements, organs and appendages, but the next final step is final release at death (unless one achieve a pre-death ascension).
The way leading to nirodhasamapatti or nirodha jnana is exactly this: witness the sensations attendant to any perceptual or mental event; notice it has no discernible qualities, other than it is temporary (impermanent), automatic (not one's doing/not-self) and uncomfortable (suffering), meaning it has no color, shape, size, location or identity. Another way of saying it is that the sensation/vibration is void, desireless and signless. This is the anatomically correct way to engage in absorption with correct seeing, until one blinks out of this realm for a bit. (There is a method for pre-determining how to enter and exit this state)
Samyama and siddhi will not have their profound power until one can enter nirodha absorption. More importantly, there will be no end of suffering until one has reached this state. This is just a fact.
So, AYP is missing a very tiny element, but one that carries tremendous weight and importance to reaching the finish line. I think AYP's little dance with Advaita was a mistake. At least it was with the language used by certain Advaita yogis. They may have the right method and right view, but when they talk it comes out wrong. I think I suffered from this badly, too.
To be clear, I'm saying all of AYP is spot on, exactly perfectly right, except this one tiny crevice of self-inquiry practice, with its Advaita talk, is missing the anatomically correct spot to de-link, and then fails to correctly follow that all the way. If it were revised as I have suggested, there would be a complete working system.
Adamant |
Edited by - adamantclearlight on Jan 21 2010 11:44:33 AM |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 11:36:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hey Adamant
quote:
Originally posted by adamantclearlight
We're talking apples and oranges now, I'm afraid. Karma is what you make it into; that's right. There's nothing outside the One. But that view doesn't stir up the crud in the channels and release it. More importantly it doesn't perform the task of cutting off future becoming.
No, the view doesn't stir up the crud in the channels and release it. Practices stir up the crud and help release it. The view helps in not allowing more karma to accumulate. At least in my experience. Perhaps we are still talking apples and oranges, I don't know
Love.
That is what I meant by "view doesn't stir up crud..."
Adamant |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 11:39:53 AM
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Really, I the most fantastic way of gaining entry into this practice would be to take ecstasy and the outpouring divine love as the object of examination. When the whole body mudra is happening, there is a powerful sensation. One should use the method I described to de-link there, and the path to the final result will happen with blazing speed.
Adamant |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 1:25:31 PM
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Hi Adamantclearlight,
I was reading a book "Karma Manual" by Dr. John Mumford,where he describes the 3 basic types of Karmas-Sanchita, Agami and Prarabdha. After describing how these may be caused, he ends the book with a 9- day Karma Cleaning Program that he says will clear up all our Sanchita and Agami Karmas upto the the present moment, barring the "Dhrida Karmas", or strong karmas as he calls them, for which the only option is to endure them.
He recommends repetition of the program at fixed intervals.The nine steps are:1. No communication of dis-satisfaction, 2.No criticism,observe thinking and actions, 3.Arise one hour earlier that normal during this program, 4.Have only one major meal a day comprising only fruits and vegetables, 5.Meditate, 6.Do something daily that you normally dislike, but which is not imperative to do, 7.Each day seek an opportunity to do a self-less act that no one else knows about, and, 9. At the end of each day starting the moment you get to bed, review the entire day right back through the day, till the moment you rose out of bed. He calls this whole program " frying the karmic seeds". Have you read this book? With your considerable experience especially, I think, in Buddhist spiritual practices, would you like to comment on this.
Krish |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 1:39:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by krcqimpro1
Hi Adamantclearlight,
I was reading a book "Karma Manual" by Dr. John Mumford,where he describes the 3 basic types of Karmas-Sanchita, Agami and Prarabdha. After describing how these may be caused, he ends the book with a 9- day Karma Cleaning Program that he says will clear up all our Sanchita and Agami Karmas upto the the present moment, barring the "Dhrida Karmas", or strong karmas as he calls them, for which the only option is to endure them.
He recommends repetition of the program at fixed intervals.The nine steps are:1. No communication of dis-satisfaction, 2.No criticism,observe thinking and actions, 3.Arise one hour earlier that normal during this program, 4.Have only one major meal a day comprising only fruits and vegetables, 5.Meditate, 6.Do something daily that you normally dislike, but which is not imperative to do, 7.Each day seek an opportunity to do a self-less act that no one else knows about, and, 9. At the end of each day starting the moment you get to bed, review the entire day right back through the day, till the moment you rose out of bed. He calls this whole program " frying the karmic seeds". Have you read this book? With your considerable experience especially, I think, in Buddhist spiritual practices, would you like to comment on this.
Krish
The steps you mention do not cut to the heart of the matter. Karma is just actions, behaviors, tendencies. The "karmic seeds" must be "fried" at the very instant they arise. Otherwise, the seeds are not fried and will reside as dormant seeds in the unconscious mind. The reviewing process might be like an orientation to begin waking up to being in the present moment. The mudra of awakening is performed by looking deep into each tendency just as it begins to register/vibrate upon the screen of consciousness. By seeing their temporarily uncomfortable void nature that instant, one fries them, and not any other way.
Adamant |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 4:19:13 PM
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I just read this on "Balance's" blog here: http://noplanezen.blogspot.com/
and thought I would share as it seemed pertinent from the perspective here......
"Karma is the dream that never completes, because karma has never begun.
It appears within the oceanic timelessness of being as the play of consciousness manifestation."
Love.
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 7:57:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I just read this on "Balance's" blog here: http://noplanezen.blogspot.com/
and thought I would share as it seemed pertinent from the perspective here......
"Karma is the dream that never completes, because karma has never begun.
It appears within the oceanic timelessness of being as the play of consciousness manifestation."
Love.
This is just like having your head buried in the sand.
Adamant |
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