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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 10:32:54 AM
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how would you turn this around, from byron katies book
"because I am not suffering means I dont care"
was reading that one last night
thanks
Neil
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 6:21:57 PM
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Why?
It's a pure statement. Who is making the statement and why are they making it ?
It does not indicate if this person is looking for change. Neither does it indicate what this person wants instead. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 6:46:08 PM
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its one of the statements in her book that resinated with my sentiments, it kind of jumped off the page.
sometimes i think I should suffer/be concerned more about thigns that I really have no control over and since I dont sometimes I think it means I dont care. so the object in the book it to turn around statements like that into ones that are more loving and accepting. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 05:38:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
its one of the statements in her book that resinated with my sentiments, it kind of jumped off the page.
sometimes i think I should suffer/be concerned more about thigns that I really have no control over and since I dont sometimes I think it means I dont care. so the object in the book it to turn around statements like that into ones that are more loving and accepting.
Well, kind of goes around in a circle does that sentence. You suffer because you don't suffer. A nice catch 22 situation if ever there was one. 
How do you react to the thought that you need to suffer in order to care ? That pain, misery, distress, anxiety and fear are needed in order to care?
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Edited by - karl on Jan 19 2010 08:07:19 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 09:40:16 AM
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quote:
How do you react to the thought that you need to suffer in order to care ? That pain, misery, distress, anxiety and fear are needed in order to care?
Nice one Karl. I think he just turned it around for you brother neil |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 5:56:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
quote:
How do you react to the thought that you need to suffer in order to care ? That pain, misery, distress, anxiety and fear are needed in order to care?
Nice one Karl. I think he just turned it around for you brother neil
No, this isn't the turn around. |
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blujett8
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 10:12:29 PM
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| because I'm not suffering means I DO care.... |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 10:52:09 PM
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| thanks blujett |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 08:42:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by blujett8
because I'm not suffering means I DO care....
Wow!!!! |
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blujett8
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 7:40:10 PM
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BK goes into this a bit in " A Thousand Names For Joy"
She talks about the power in being an example of freedom for her children.
quite incredible. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 8:06:04 PM
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| I was reading a little last night when she did the work on a child, got a few laughs out of that. It would be cool to read more of her work with children as they are pretty simple minded. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 8:28:55 PM
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"because I am not suffering means I dont care"
is a manipulation technique that people try to use on you.
You see it on TV while asking for donations.
When you say "we can't afford that new government program" promoters say "you don't care!"
PS
to turn it around, the statement "I am not suffering" doesn't mean or indicate anything else. It's a simple statement.
Some cultures try to connect guilt with everything, but it doesn't belong.
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Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 24 2010 8:35:31 PM |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 9:21:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
"because I am not suffering means I dont care"
is a manipulation technique that people try to use on you.
I agree, Ether. And it's so ingrained in our culture that I think a lot of people internalize it (i.e. we manipulate ourselves with it). |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2010 : 04:08:20 AM
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There is a conundrum within the statement "because I am not suffering means I dont care".
On one hand: "I should suffer" the reality would be "But I don't" and that would be an end to it except for the turn around. Which would be along the same lines of bluejett8's turnaround
But there is another more subtle reality. By feeling "I should suffer more" brings out the feeling of guilt and guilt is a negative emotion which is of course suffering.
So the statement could read, and I'm not saying it should, just pointing out the possibility " I feel guilty because I don't suffer" which is clearly an oxymoron,
Therefore, if I add this to the original statement it becomes "I suffer because I don't suffer means I don't care"
There is information missing from that statement which is more obvious, because it clearly does not make sense. There are actually then, two statements running together.
"I suffer" to which the question would be "How exactly do you choose to suffer?"
and "I don't suffer means I don't care" which is the more obvious complex equivalence which would be "how does your not suffering mean you don't care?" or "Have you ever cared for something that did not cause you suffering?"
I'm not saying any of that is actually true, but I think it's worth pointing out that you can hide the most painful splinter in a pile of logs. In Brother Neils case I personally don't have enough information.
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2010 : 07:00:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
how would you turn this around, from byron katies book
"because I am not suffering means I dont care"
was reading that one last night
thanks
Neil
Please forgive my indulging in what wants to be said from my observations of this question presentd by Byron Katie.
I can't get a firm ground with the concepts presented in B.K.'s sentence question, so the idea of turning it around has too many unknowns.
I immediately had a problem reading a single, one sentence question, "because I am not suffering means I dont care", and my attention tended to look into the possible meaning of each word alone, and also with sets of words as they stand together as pairs, or as three or four words together. The words individually and in various sets have many different possibilities of meaning. And then looking deeper still the words are seen to have layers of meaning that can not be defined as just words with the usual conceptual definitions we somehow seem to place on them. They are patterns of energy that ultimately tend to morph in different ways into a richness of silence/stillness.
But here I will back up a little to just look at the words as "words", but presenting some different possible meanings.
The best way to describe my dilemna is to suggest looking into the words for yourself. Beginning with "because", the word alone has different possible implications. I'll leave you to ponder meanings for "because".
And next we have "I" and "am".
So one way to read them is to see them together as "because I am". And then there is "because I am not". Next I see "because I am not suffering". That could be seen as "I am" is not defined as "suffering". Instead of "I am" having a quality of "not suffering", "I am" can be read as not possibly being defined as "suffering"
And then we come to "means" and "I don't care"
Another one that caught my attention is a couple of variations: "Because I am not" followed by "suffering means I don't care". And the other: "Because I am" followed by "not suffering means I don't care".
I'll stop there with the words, variations and posible meanings. That part originally took just a few moments to view, so don't worry, I didn't laboriously spend time and energy looking into that, although this post is becoming quite long and laborious 
So my intent here is not to pick apart concepts mentally, because that is just something on the surface of my dilemna. My problem I am trying to convey here is that I cannot possibly find a solid definition by which to place a value of self-identification upon a concept centered around "I am" apparently connected to "because" and "not" and "suffering" and "means" and "I" and "don't" and "care".
So I am left with the simplicity of having nothing with any solid, conceptual definition, and with no possibility or desire to find some way to attempt to turn anything around.
If you suffered through this silliness, I thank you for your attention, and now you are free to go away from it to hopefully more pleasant meanderings.
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2010 : 6:13:33 PM
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How about inquiring on:
"I have to turn this around."
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2010 : 04:04:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic
How about inquiring on:
"I have to turn this around."
I don't have to turn this around.
I should turn my thinking around.
I look forward to not being able to turn this around.
I'm turning around so fast I became really dizzy and fell over a wall into some rose bushes. Ow |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2010 : 6:26:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
I'm turning around so fast I became really dizzy and fell over a wall into some rose bushes. Ow
LOL  |
Edited by - cosmic on Feb 26 2010 6:27:21 PM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2010 : 10:24:20 AM
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| Thats some funny stuff by all you guys/girls, one statement, now so mamy words spring from it. |
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turn this around
