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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 04:28:10 AM
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Hi everybody,
I was just wondering, just as we may use a "prop" for the heel in siddhasana and still derive the benefits of natural siddhasana, can some of you bright young bio-engineers/ inventors out there not invent a device that can be used as a substitute for the tongue, to reach the nasal septum past the soft palate and excite this sensitive area to good effect.
Then we can forget all the fear, anguish and pain of cutting the frenulum, and make rapid spiritual progress ! This device can then probably help us reach the pituitary itself( 5th stage Kechari).
Yogani's view on this would be appreciated.
Krish |
Edited by - krcqimpro1 on Jan 17 2010 11:58:36 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2010 : 12:34:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by krcqimpro1
Then we can forget all the fear, anguish and pain of cutting the frenulum, and make rapid spiritual progress !
I am not bright or young or an engineer... so sorry cant help you with a prop. 
But just to let you know... if you snip the way Yogani tells you to in the lesson (he is bright and an engineer and young in a relative way ), it is not painful at all. The fear and anguish is only in the mind. Try it once Krish, and you will see there was nothing to fear. |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 03:17:31 AM
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Thanks Shweta. With stretching the tongue through Talavya Kriya, I have now got to the stage in the last 6 mths. of reaching just beyond the uvula , with my finger pushing from under the tongue. I am just able to feel a "salty" mound. But there is immediate gagging and I am unable to proceed. I realise I now have to resort to cutting, but I guess my time has still not come as all my efforts to get hold of a cuticle nipper have failed so far. The link you gave me in Hyderabad, India, has not been able to sell me one yet(out of stock). My nephew returning from Germany, bought a nipper , but as he carried it in his cabin baggage, the Colombo Airport Authorities took it away for security reasons. I am now getting a talavya tool made locally, and hope to succeed with it. In the meanwhile, I am forging ahead with all the AYP practices 1 1/2 hrs. twice daily, and am trying to "let go and let God" for the results.
But seriously, I think a prop can be developed for this, and since the whole thing is scientific, it should work.
Krish |
Edited by - krcqimpro1 on Jan 19 2010 06:36:05 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2010 : 10:00:07 AM
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Hi Krish,
If you send me (email me) your mailing address, I can send you a cuticle nipper. I have friend's going down from here to India and someone will carry it for me. Let me know.  |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 11:43:53 AM
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| The problem with this, I think is two-fold: part of the advantage of kechari is you can do it anytime, anywhere--i.e. part of its efficacy comes from the fact that you can do it so easily and so often. The other is that the tongue itself is part of the equation. In my experience, inserting the tongue up there not only stimulates the nose and third-eye regions, but also the throat and further down, which feel more directly connected to the tongue the more you practice kechari. So, even if you could invent something comfortable and convenient to insert into the nasal region, you'd be missing out on the throat part. |
Edited by - tamasaburo on Jan 19 2010 11:49:42 AM |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 12:19:44 PM
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Hi Tamasaburo,
I entirely agree it may never be the same as using the tongue, just as using a prop under the perineum will never be the same as sitting in siddhasana. But it can be a fair approximation for those who cannot cut the frenulum, even if they derive only 60% of the benefit.
Krish |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 1:43:22 PM
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Well, I don't think it's quite the same as siddhasana, in which the point is pressure on the perineum, not pressure on the heel. Whether the pressure comes from a heel or a sock is irrelevant in the case of siddhasana, whereas in the case of kechari, the tongue is itself being stimulated as it stimulates the nasal pharynx. Also, the tongue is capable of a type of gentle, moving stimulation of the nasal passages that would be hard to achieve with a foreign object.
I know cutting the frenum is a bit scary, but if you're careful, it's not very risky. I would imagine that inserting a foreign object into the nasal passages from the inside would actually be much MORE risky than snipping the frenum. The tongue is the perfect instrument for stimulating those sensitive areas since it is soft and possessed of fine motor control--you're not going to accidentally damage your sinuses, eyes or brain with your tongue, but you might with some kind of tool over which you'd surely have less fine control.
I certainly understand the impulse to find a substitute for snipping (I certainly found it quite scary the first few times), but I think the alternatives are not only unsatisfactory, but potentially even more risky.
What worked for me personally was to just try to do kechari without snipping during meditation, pranayama and throughout the day--that is, just reaching back with the tongue and touching the uvula area. Though I couldn't get the tongue all the way up there, it was enough to give me a taste of how nice it would feel to be able to, gradually increasing my desire to the point that I was willing to take the risk and try snipping.
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Edited by - tamasaburo on Jan 19 2010 8:09:43 PM |
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 9:41:03 PM
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Hey Krish!
Maybe you could try stuffing a hot dog up there...without the bun...obviously just kidding
Actually, it sounds like you are pretty close to hitting Stage 2. Once you can push the tongue a bit past the uvula with your fingers, then try pushing forward with your tongue against you soft palate, and surprisingly the soft palate will push down (almost like a trap door), and next thing you know your tongue is back there. Another trick is, rather than trying to go straight back, push your tongue back and to either the left side or right side (whichever feels more comfortable for you). Going to the side actually seemed to be a shorter distance than going straight back. I would push the tongue back with my finger to the left side as far as I could and then when i got the tip of the tongue just past the edge of the soft palate I would push forward with the tongue and that's how I got it back there the first time.
I definitely went through a phase of gagging when I did this (going to the side actually helped with that a bit), at the time it seemed that I would never be able to get over it, but the whole gagging thing went away after a few days and hasn't been an issue since. Then I went through a week or two where the uvula would get stuck back underneath my tongue while I was in K-2 (I didn't love that...felt a little weird) but again that stopped happening relatively quickly.
Everyone is obviously different, but I was able to get to K2 using mostly stretching..I did 2 pretty minor snips...but it was the daily stretching (pushing the tongue back with the fingers) that got me there. I may take up snipping as I'm starting to feel the urge to start pushing up higher in the nasal cavity...
Keep trying, you're almost there!!!!
Peace & Love |
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 10:51:58 PM
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Hi guys,
Not trying to hijack the thread here(or maybe I am?) but after months of thinking and weeks of studying I manged to get myself two cuticle nipper of different brands. A samller one and a bigger one of the brand Manecure which I assumed was a good one. However the problem is non of them are sharp enough to make a nice cut. The last time I tried, I had a bit of the frenum in the nipper but instead of being cut my frenum was held nicely between the blades of the nipper. I tried so hard to cut but it didn't. I kept pulling it forward until a bit of my frenum was separated. If you understand what I mean, instead of a cut I ended up with separating a pieace of my frenum forcefully.
I'm thinking maybe the nippers that I have aren't sharp enough. They have a habit of making this extra safe in Australia. Can you guys suggest an American or European brand that I could buy online?
Thanks,
Emil |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 11:06:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Emil
Hi guys,
Not trying to hijack the thread here(or maybe I am?) but after months of thinking and weeks of studying I manged to get myself two cuticle nipper of different brands. A samller one and a bigger one of the brand Manecure which I assumed was a good one. However the problem is non of them are sharp enough to make a nice cut. The last time I tried, I had a bit of the frenum in the nipper but instead of being cut my frenum was held nicely between the blades of the nipper. I tried so hard to cut but it didn't. I kept pulling it forward until a bit of my frenum was separated. If you understand what I mean, instead of a cut I ended up with separating a pieace of my frenum forcefully.
I'm thinking maybe the nippers that I have aren't sharp enough. They have a habit of making this extra safe in Australia. Can you guys suggest an American or European brand that I could buy online?
Thanks,
Emil
Hi Emil,
Do you have the kind that looks like this?
Picture: Cuticle Snippers
(aka "GoOOOD".)
That's basically what I've used.
Before I started snipping for the purpose of attaining Khechari Mudra (back in 2006) .... I thought cuticle snippers looked like THIS:
Other Picture: Cuticle Snippers
("BaaaaAAAD")
... with which I would have doubtlessly and very messily ripped out my own tongue before figuring out that they were not the right kind, if not for Google Search results.
("Google is our friend.")
The GOOD kind worked just find, and involved a lot less hassle, pain or blood than my angst-ridden mind ever could have imagined.
Was it worth it?
OhhhHHH YES.
It was.
And is.
I hope this helps.
Wholeheartedly*
Kirtanman
*And thankfully, whole-tongued-ly.
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Jan 19 2010 11:17:36 PM |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2010 : 02:21:26 AM
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Hi Tamasaburo,
Thanks. That is precisely what I have been trying, and I think I am close to stage 2.
And thanks Parallax for the hot-dog suggestion, but no thank you. I am a strict vegetarian.
Reminds me of the first time I visited the US in 1989 and went to a McDonald's for a vegetarian burger. The girl at the counter said I could buy a regular burger and throw away the meat myself and eat the rest. She didn't even agree to giving me one without the meat!
Anyway, Parallax, thanks for all the encouragement. I am not giving up anytime soon..
Krish |
Edited by - krcqimpro1 on Jan 20 2010 05:57:37 AM |
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2010 : 07:59:23 AM
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Hey Krish,
The thought of the hot dog alone is enough to get the gag reflex going 
Keep us posted on how it all goes. I know when I first got the tongue back up there, I thought "how will it be possible to keep this thing up there and do sitting practices"...but now I don't even give it a second thought...its all good 
Much Love |
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Ten Chakras
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2010 : 11:29:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tamasaburo
The problem with this, I think is two-fold: part of the advantage of kechari is you can do it anytime, anywhere--i.e. part of its efficacy comes from the fact that you can do it so easily and so often. The other is that the tongue itself is part of the equation. In my experience, inserting the tongue up there not only stimulates the nose and third-eye regions, but also the throat and further down, which feel more directly connected to the tongue the more you practice kechari. So, even if you could invent something comfortable and convenient to insert into the nasal region, you'd be missing out on the throat part.
I agree. In fact, I might go so far as to say that you would probably get more benefit out of establishing the full circuit of the rear and front channels in just stage one, than you would from masturbating the inside of your nasal pharynx in stage2+ alone.
I think the idea of making a nasal dildo is Khechari.. about as much as masturbating without an open sushuma is tantric. Both are the wrong idea, because both serve the wrong intent of purpose. I could see how it could be a seductive and exciting idea though... ..but it won't be the magic bullet you hope for, and probably not a new place to have an orgasm either |
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2010 : 02:47:30 AM
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Hi Kirtanman,
Yes the one that I have looks like the first link you provided. They look sharp but the tip is not very sharp and that's a problem because in snipping only the tip comes into play. Is yours very sharp? Does the frenum escape from between the blades? In other words do you end up playing cat and mouse for a small cut?
I've also found a cosmetic surgery clinique that can remove the frenum with laser cuts. They charge $500. I'm planning to give this a go:
http://www.smileconcepts.com.au/ton...ctomies.html
Any ideas?
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Substitute for Kechari Mudra using tongue
