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emc
2072 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 14 2010 : 08:39:32 AM
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quote:
Q5: Sometimes when my breath suspends during meditation, I do not feel the need to breathe for quite a long time. Should I stay with this and favor not breathing? I feel an intense desire to take it to the limit in these practices. It is as though I am possessed by divine desire.
A5: The reason you do not feel oxygen-deprived during natural kumbhaka (breath suspension) is because the metabolism during deep meditation is low and the awakening inner prana is also compensating. It will be best to stay with the procedure of the practice we are doing.
I have asked this many times and still haven't gotten an answer that is so clear that I can actually benefit from the answer. Please, can someone be as explicit as possible and tell me HOW I break a natural breath suspension like the one described above.
How do you manage to break it? By gathering enough focus back to the body and build enough will to start breathing again with force although it feels uncomfortable and sometimes even painful? Is that how you prevent overdoing natural breath suspension? Or are there any other ways?
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2010 : 09:17:48 AM
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| Not an expert, as you know, but why do you want to break the breath suspension? It is a glorious experience when it happens. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2010 : 7:09:26 PM
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Hi emc,
I wouldn't break a natural breath suspension. If you are experiencing overload problems, and you feel that breath suspension during practices is adding to that, then I would look at the practices themselves.
What are you doing in terms of practice at the moment? |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 01:30:03 AM
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It is recommended in AYP to be careful of overdoing automatic stuff like this to prevent overload.
From the lesson quote:
Be careful about overdoing with breath suspension. It can lead to excessive purification and imbalance, with recovery time being necessary. It can occur in a delayed reaction after excessive breath suspension, days or weeks later.
I am constantly in wonder of how I'm supposed to not overdo - it must mean I have to break the happenings by will somehow when it happens, and I'm still trying to figure out how that is possibly done. Other people seem to have a functioning will - my will is obviously generally not strong enough to stop it, I haven't found the "will power button" yet.
I'm doing 5 breaths of alternate nostril breathing, then 5-7 minutes having attention only on breath - then resting lying down 10 min. (No kechari   ) Most often only once in the evening, sometimes also in the mornings, but then shorter breath meditation, 1-2 min only to keep the habit of twice daily, since so short sessions really doesn't cultivate any stillness. My hope is to have found a minimum of practice that will still cultivate some stillness and make things move forward.
Some days or during a period of days, the breath suspensions comes as soon as I put attention on breath. Everything slows down, I sink into stillness and breath stops. Then it keeps happening on and off during the whole day. It's too easy to mind the breath - it's with me all the time. And when I mind it I either discover I don't breath and haven't done for a while, or the slowing down of breath starts immediately and sometimes results in a breathless state again. Then I sit with wool hats, blankets and scarfs in the evening drinking hot tea to warm up again.
And then the pendulum swings and I get kundalini rushes and the whole system is burning instead - we all know those symptoms. That's why I do alternate nostril breathing on recommendation of T_I, hoping it will balance the ida/pingala, being a much softer and less aggressive practice than spinal breathing.
(I must add that this is nothing new. This pendulum between cold/heat has been going on for years now. I'm sick and tired of it. I started my journey 4 years ago with breath sessations on several minutes, several times a day, breathing 2 breaths/minute during the whole day, even when doing exercise in the gym having 160 bpm in pulse.)
Spinal breathing and mantra meditation is not an option - that's too powerful at the moment.
PS: I also would like to add that there is no ecstacy or bliss happening at all. It's all very neutral inside and a depressed mind following it all with its comments. |
Edited by - emc on Jan 15 2010 02:04:18 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 11:42:06 AM
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Hi emc,
quote:
It is recommended in AYP to be careful of overdoing automatic stuff like this to prevent overload.
In my experience there are two kinds of automatic yoga, that which we have some control over and that which we don't. Most falls into the first category, but some falls into the second. If you don't have any control over the suspension of breath, then there isn't anything you can do about it. That's why I said I wouldn't try, because you would be fighting a loosing battle. 
That's also why I said I would look at practices, as that is something that you do have some control over, which includes grounding practices.
My next question would be, can you put up with the overload problems that you are having, or is it unbearable? If you can put up with it, then I would carry on as you are with the practices that you are doing. If it is unbearable, then I would self pace to zero, and spend a lot of time in nature until things stabilize. That's just what I would do (and have done in the past).
Christi |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 1:20:38 PM
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Thanks Christi.
So those times I can stop it the way I described, it seems to fall into the first category of yours where we actually can influence the happenings, and then I also should stop it by will force, whether in or out of practices? Do I get you right?
There's no time for spending time in nature more than I already do with the horse.
My whole life is so chaotic and unbearable at the moment, to the point I'm getting suicidal in my depressive thought patterns. The only reason I don't go to action is because Yogani has written that if you have a karma of getting premature crownopenings and you can't handle it in the current life you may get stuck in that cycle of karma life after life, and I want to end this cycle now. I would only have to come back and solve it later anyway. It's just pointless.
It's like... life before the spiritual journey was a depressive hell. Life after the spiritual journey has begun, has turned out to become a depressive hell with add-ons of physical kundalini discomfort and overload symptoms magnifying every emotional and physical symptom to the bizarre, plus an ability to manifest negative thoughts to sh*t to a degree never imagined before - giving food for the depressive mind to drown in guilt and demands on being careful with words and thoughts which of course is impossible for a depressive mind. It was way better before when it was only a depressive hell... but now it's impossible to make this stop. No turning back. |
Edited by - emc on Jan 15 2010 1:54:38 PM |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 3:50:02 PM
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Does breath really become suspended, or do you enter into a trance state where you can no longer feel your breath?
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Edited by - alwayson2 on Jan 15 2010 3:53:25 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 4:08:54 PM
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| It becomes suspended. I can go on working, walking, driving etc. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 5:29:00 PM
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| Were you or are you a very physically fit and athletic person before you took up yoga practice and meditation? |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 5:41:48 PM
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| If you feel suicidal but you can't bring yourself to commit suicide for the hope you have, you don't really have anything to worry about. Because you already recognise that there is a glimmer of hope there. I would suggest you leave off all spiritual practices, meetings and so on, and concentrate on your mental health. You are clearly seemingly not able to integrate your spiritual practices with the rest of your life. And severe depression is not a joke, it is a massively serious condition that in most cases needs some kind of medication to regulate it. So if i could give advice i would say to you to go and seek some help from psychologists or doctors to see what they have to say. |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 6:05:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
It becomes suspended. I can go on working, walking, driving etc.
How did you achieve this? |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 6:25:04 PM
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Take care emc.I agree with gumpi's advices.
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 7:02:29 PM
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| Moving your big toe can break sleep paralysis, it might help here?? |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 10:50:01 PM
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@emc
my body reacts very similiar to yours.
@lwayson2
To the question how to attain that, just overdo pranayama and meditation and it happens. If it is with side effects, you know you overdid. If there are no side-efects, lucky lucky man =P
@emc
I mostly and always overdid any kind of practice to see where it leads. Even if you have some side effects, you see faster if the technique works or is useless. As you have find out, like me, mantra meditation together with pranayama done a good amount leads to no breath very fast. Also watching the breath stops the breath. The same is with watching the thoughts -> stops the breath too.
If I overdo any kind of practice from any kind of system, the only only thing that ever healed me:
take a free day, make this a free day. After waking up, do your toilet stuff, return to bed, take a sitting and chilled position. Just be, let everything happen as it happens, whatever happens, however it looks like and so on. Remain like that for as long as the body remains sitting. Complete surrender.
What always happens to me with this: Mind blablas itself out in 1,2, sometimes 3+ hours. With it, immense silence grows, immense peace grows, immense healing happens as natural and as less frictional as with any other kind of active practice. Just be and be and be the exact way you are and let and let and let, whatever whatever...
Whenever I fail with whatever I do, like controlling my breathing, my life, my spiritual practices and whenever I hit a hard wall, this was always the best. After getting healed, when the body gets up on his own, when you have drunk and drunk the peace of out-of-itself-silence, thats the paradise. Afterwards I always start with regular sbp and dm till things get crazy and inhormonious again. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2010 : 11:40:37 PM
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emc
quote:
The only reason I don't go to action is because Yogani has written that if you have a karma of getting premature crownopenings and you can't handle it in the current life you may get stuck in that cycle of karma life after life,
Yip .... this one stuck for me too. Made the impression. Though i have recently begun to question (neuro)biological state karmic inheritance for some reason( the part of me that wants to :).It can't be that straightforward- Can it?? no i don't think it is because karma is governed by action,thought speech etc. However 'may' is underlined ,if its any consolation :) because i guess the 'may' means it is'nt that simple. Things never are. But suicide is a spiritually bankrupt act and i suppose could have some kind of karmic implication though i would'nt worry about it too much..They all originate in the mind we are told anyway.
You could say spiritually you are always continuiing where you left off, so suicide may be rather inconsequential. i have heard karma said as fathomless.indeed i think it was Yogani. |
Edited by - Akasha on Jan 16 2010 12:02:55 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 02:46:51 AM
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gumpi, yes, I was quite fit before this journey started. Thank you for your concern. Seeing a doctor and eating medication have never worked for me. This depressive state is my normal state of mind and has been for as long as I can remember. I have tried everything. The only thing that breaks it - is silence and non-duality bringing an open heart. Duality always means depression here. I can't change how this mind is wired.
I just got to know there's some catastrophy on Haiti. It might be the turmoil around that which is affecting me more heavily right now...
alwayson2: At first I didn't achieve it through any method at all. When it first happened 4 years ago it was instant. I met a man whose presence caused an abrupt kundalini awakening, bringing on advanced tantric experiences/breath sessations as mentioned above/oneness expriences etc etc without having done any spiritual practices at all. Happened in a minute. Since then I have been struggling with keeping balance when it all closed down on me. Had some time when everything seemed to develop fast, smooth and towards Oneness without problems - following all the milestones mentioned in AYP - writing wonderful posts here in forum, guiding the newbies, telling them how to "relax and just BE". So I've been there, done that.
Then it tipped over somewhere and I got very sensitive, started suffering from overload and descending into mind more and more. From then on it has only been a downward spiral and now - here's where I am. It's as if - since the crown has been open once, it now can't open slowly. It's an on/off thing. And every opening brings massive back-lashes. So I have to be very, very careful with anything that opens the crown. Like going into mindfulness or breathing or... being aware... going into conscious movements... That's why I'm trying stopping all automatic happenings (which has been very frequent here). Not easy to self-pace that... my method so far is to stay mindy as much as I can and only open during 5-7 min meditation each day. It means my mind can go haywire and exaggerate it's powers and old patterns. I both believe it and don't believe it at the same time. Cause having seen the Truth once makes it impossible to believe it 100% again. But I can't help myself out of this situation it seems.
Holy - thank you for a beautiful post!!!! I felt a strong resonance and I feel that's what I really hope I could do. Just take that rest. I'm so trapped in chaos right now, though, so if I don't work my ass off trying to fix everything I will go economically bankrupt and the horse will be maltreated and I will not be able to transport myself to my job and I will... you know? Can't let that happen. Trying to prevent an even greater disaster here. I don't have time to eat, clean the flat, do the dishes or laundry. That will have to wait. I'm prioritating at least getting sleep at the moment, and then fixing things that has to be fixed, after my 13 hours workdays are over. I have people helping me, and it's not enough. It's chaos here. And as soon as I have caught one ball that life throws, it throws another ball, and another, and another... Life arranges situations that are outrageous at the moment... I just have to catch the balls, running like a madwoman... and doing that with a depressed mind, no energy and weird diseases and colds in the body... and the kundalini symptoms... I'm not well. There's the direct opposite of harmony here. And then I KNOW everything on the outside is a perfect reflection of the inside, and law of attraction and jada jada... So I do The Work, do self-inquiry, I get one ball to say *poof* and it's gone, there's an opening - there's a crown opening, joy, laughter and release - and then the backlash comes and life throws 2 new balls and some new kundalini rashes, almost like a punishment for having done The Work... So now, I'm getting afraid to do The Work also. It brings overload.
I sometimes wonder if life will push me to a situation like Byron Katie's before I'm allowed to flip into Being? Perhaps I'm supposed to go bankrupt, maltreat the horse, lose my job, my flat and just go into a home somewhere... Perhaps that's my way. I don't know.
I'm longing for that rest. To just be able to sit and sink into stillness. However... I'm afraid that will not bring peace in the long run, but cause another crown opening and then the chaos will increase again. That's how it has been so far... such things hits back enormously!!! So actually, I don't dare to do such things. Thanks anyway - I feel much love and understanding from your post!
Akasha, yes, those lines had a great impact on me. Thanks for your feed-back. |
Edited by - emc on Jan 16 2010 04:23:51 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 04:36:07 AM
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hi emc, hope things will get better for you.
IMHO it seems obvious that you should take a break from this spiritual life for a while (for a few days perhaps) and see if that has any good effects on you...
namaste |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 04:40:44 AM
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| It doesn't take a break from me... I have to deal with it all the time anyway. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 04:47:34 AM
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things will settle down if you give them a long break and try just to self pace the ordinary ways like sports and doing anything that makes you really sweaty and eating heavy foods and staying active and letting your mind be involved in mundane stuff... oh and tantra in case you are involved in any such practices you should watch out for that also.
and in case you have to deal with it all the time bcz of dealing with people who need spiritual help or something than you should definitely take a break from that as well.
L&L |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 04:56:02 AM
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| That's what I thought I was doing... can't afford going on sick-leave from work though. It would not only affect my economy, but bring chaos, stress and disease to all my colleagues and then they would be on sick-leave when I come back... We already are doing 1,5 mans job each due to work load cause people have been sacked. I have to think long-term here, not short term egoistic benefits. |
Edited by - emc on Jan 16 2010 05:00:35 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 05:02:51 AM
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long term would be for you to stabilize and then come back and help even more and be more at peace with yourself.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 05:20:47 AM
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i've got to leave now, going up to the village.
it was really nice having this conversation, you are very dear to me sweet emc.
and in the end solution is in your hands it's your life.
btw i sort of been at a similar place, i was unstable with much overload and the crown was involved as well and i should've given help to others at the sake of my own stability but i didn't offer it at that time bcz i knew that it could wait.(rare are the cases that don't and the alternatives are many))
so i kept on self pacing bcz if i did offer help in the state i was in that would've brought in more trouble.
now i am back into being at a somewhat more stable platform and i can handle my way in case i am to help such people and this definitely seems like a good choice on the long run.
at least now i can help even more people and not risk hurting myself.
Best wishes Ananda
namaste
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 06:55:33 AM
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| and you to me, Ananda! Thanks for the chat! |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2010 : 08:38:58 AM
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quote:
Akasha, yes, those lines had a great impact on me.Thanks for your feedback.
Yes it's bhakti generator,stirrer, if ever there was one :)
All the Best! |
Edited by - Akasha on Jan 16 2010 08:41:08 AM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2010 : 12:20:50 AM
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EMC - I feel for you. Wishing you inner strength to find your way thru'.
If I may go back to the lesson 378. Whilst it is easy to keep saying the mantra during breath suspension during DM, I don't see how one can continue with the practice when breath suspension happens in SP. When the latter happens, I stop(as there is no breath to follow)and slip comfortably into DM. |
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Question on latest lesson 378
