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Originally posted by arzkiyahai

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. Ramana Maharishi, Gangaji, Mooji, Shankaracharya, Eckhart tolle etc they all show the path of advaita vedanta for enlightenment. What is advaita vedanta? Is it just staying in the moment.

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Originally posted by Kirtanman

(If you can notice a thought or a feeling .... you can't *be* that thought or feeling; objects are not subjects, despite a few millenia of confusion on that point, among almost all humans, ever.)

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Originally posted by Kirtanman


Hi Arzkiyahai,

quote:

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Originally posted by arzkiyahai

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. Ramana Maharishi, Gangaji, Mooji, Shankaracharya, Eckhart tolle etc they all show the path of advaita vedanta for enlightenment. What is advaita vedanta? Is it just staying in the moment.

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To expand a bit with Adamant's comments (which I agree with, btw) ... Advaita Vedanta and Advaita (without the Vedanta) are not the same thing.

Advaita Vedanta is one formal non-dual philosophy within Hinduism; there are quite a few of them (Kashmir Shaivism, etc.) ... Advaita Vedanta is just the best known one (of the non-dual philosophies, within Hinduism).

Adi Shankaracharya was the founder of Advaita Vedanta, back in the 8th century.

In current times, the word Advaita, by itself, is kind of a generic catchphrase; the word simply means "non-dual" (in Sanskrit).

As far as I know, none of the other teachers you mentioned were formally affiliated with Advaita Vedanta, though they all are/were advaitic, generally-speaking.

Ramana Maharshi had a devotee who went by the name Papaji, and both Gangaji and Mooji are disciples of Papaji's.

Tolle awakened on his own, but then came to understand his awakening via a lot of study and practice; I don't recall exactly what; he describes it in various places.

There are lots of so-called advaitic teachers around, and the quality of these teachers varies a lot.

A primary line of demarcation is whether or not they are simply advaitic or "neo-advaitic".

Neo-advaita basically says "there's nothing to do; it's all already non-dual; that's it."

The problem with this approach is: if someone is stuck in ego-mind ... they continue to be stuck in ego-mind .... having a dual experience within non-dual reality (aka "no fun at all" ).

Inquiry is the primary practice within advaitic paths ... but "inquiry" doesn't necessarily mean asking a formal question, necessarily; that can actually complicate the process (though it can be useful, too; depends on the person and situation).

The most useful means of inquiry I found, was just resting, truly, in presence/awareness, and noticing who/what is actually experiencing any moment.

It's never the "me who I think I am", which is just an aggregate of thoughts and feelings; if that seems to be you, just notice: if it can be perceived, it's not you.

(If you can notice a thought or a feeling .... you can't *be* that thought or feeling; objects are not subjects, despite a few millenia of confusion on that point, among almost all humans, ever.)



Yogani offers a very good overview of all this (inquiry/advaita, in general), here.

I hope this is helpful.

Wholheartedly,

Kirtanman

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Originally posted by arzkiyahai



So basically Advaita Vedanta and Advaita being different they both still point out to the same philosphy? As Sankaracharya believed that everything is brahman, soul and God are not two different entities but there is only one entity. Is the same belief being shared by Advaita followers too?

The method Gangaji, Mooji are teaching it leads towards kundalini awakening or straight to self-realization?

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Originally posted by emc

quote:

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Originally posted by Kirtanman

(If you can notice a thought or a feeling .... you can't *be* that thought or feeling; objects are not subjects, despite a few millenia of confusion on that point, among almost all humans, ever.)

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One of the most profound parenthesis I've seen! Thanks, K. I shared it on FB...

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As Sankaracharya believed that everything is brahman, soul and God are not two different entities but there is only one entity. Is the same belief being shared by Advaita followers too?

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Originally posted by Kirtanman

quote:

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Originally posted by arzkiyahai



So basically Advaita Vedanta and Advaita being different they both still point out to the same philosphy? As Sankaracharya believed that everything is brahman, soul and God are not two different entities but there is only one entity. Is the same belief being shared by Advaita followers too?

The method Gangaji, Mooji are teaching it leads towards kundalini awakening or straight to self-realization?

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Hi Arzkiyahai,

What you write above is essentially the case, though in very, very loose/"broad brush stroke" ways.

Advaita Vedanta is actually a very sophisticated philosophy, and in many ways, very close to Kashmir Shaivism (also known as Advaita Shaiva).

Most modern Advaitins (presumably more of the "neo-advaita" variety), don't seem to be much about philosophy at all, one way or the other, but rather, on helping people to understand that "this is it".

That's not an untrue statement in and of itself, but the "this" seems a lot different, when veiled by limited mind.

And, as I consider it now, it's actually been quite some time since I've seen or heard any modern advaita teachers say that practices aren't necessary; it's more that they just tend to emphasize the reality of wholeness, now.

There are lots of reasons for this, but suffice it to say that for most of us, a clearly marked path "from Here to Here" (as opposed to statements "It's all whole, and this is it!" alone) is helpful .... hence approaches like AYP and Living Unbound.

And I would guess that Gangaji, Mooji and others would say they lead straight to self-realization, but the reality is:

Their statements can trigger awakenings in people (which dynamic is always more about the one awakened, than the catalyst for their awakening), which tend to kick up a lot of newfound thoughts and feelings and energies regarding (until that time) unconscious memory-patterns which literally resist the awakening.

This period is often referred to as kundalini awakening in certain yogic circles. In advaitic circles they tend to refer to it as "continued belief in the illusory self", or "believing thoughts which are not true", and so on.

These are accurate ways of describing the phenomenon, but again, not necessarily very helpful.

All ancient traditions, in every religion refer to the purification phase ... because essentially everyone goes through it. If there's a way around it, no one has found it, yet.

And the best way I've seen to work *with* the dynamics of purification is:

AYP.

And Yogani outlines why this is so, and some of the rest of us are fairly clear on it as well, now, based on our own experience:

Living in the illusion of separate self literally creates/projects the body-mind in a certain way, on all levels ... including physically. Neuroplasticity is very real, something science is acknowledging more and more (confirming something that yogis and mystics have known, just in different terms, for thousands of years).

Awakening from identification with the illusion involves literally changing and evolving the body-mind .... which is process of yogic sadhana. To date, AYP articulates this clearly, and offers all the tools to help us do this smoothly, more effectively than any other toolset/system I've seen (and I base this on roughly ten years' yoga, meditation and philosophy experience, five of those years spent with AYP, and daily practice).

One very, very key point:

Advaita teachers tend to minimize the need for practices or seeking ......... yet every single one of them, as far as I can tell ........ has engaged in seeking and practices.

Seeking can become problematic, but not practices ... and often, the seeking is the way bhakti (devotion/motivation) manifests for a while, and is what keeps us practicing.

In a nutshell:

Philosophies and spiritual systems are literally all over the map.

The ONE common denominator, though, in *every single human* I know of , who ends up Living Unbound (aka enlightened, realized, awake ... whatever we may want to call it) is:

At least a few years spent in daily practices, combined with a fervent desire to be free.

I hope that's helpful.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

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Originally posted by Christi

Hi all,

Lovely video of Ganaji where she talks about some of the issues we have been exploring here in the forum recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70C083hj8iI

Hi Arzkiyahai,

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As Sankaracharya believed that everything is brahman, soul and God are not two different entities but there is only one entity. Is the same belief being shared by Advaita followers too?

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In a nutshell, yes. Different teachers use different language, and this can often confuse issues. But basically, all valid spiritual traditions point towards the same goal, which is freedom, or enlightenment. Some will speak in terms of the unity of the soul and God, or the atman and Brahman. Some will speak only of emptiness and liberation (moksha).

In the case of pure advaita, the witness is pointed out first, as the Self, free from and existing seperate from any object which can arise in awareness. Ultimately though, through resting in the witness, the differentiation between subject and object dissolves, and the Self is seen everywhere. This is the unification of the individual and the universal. There is nothing that you are not. This is what Adi Shankara meant by the unification of the atman and Brahman.

It is the unity stage described in this lesson:

http://www.aypsite.org/336.html

"This is the true realization of non-duality, which is a unification, rather than a separation of undifferentiated consciousness from the rest of life. "[Yogani]

All the best,

Christi

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