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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 07 2006 : 4:36:17 PM
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From my email:
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Q:
I have a few questions that I would like to post on the forum, but I am shy to do it. If you think these are valid and appropriate questions, could you post them for me? Also, I would like your input on these.
1. Has anybody's menstrual cycle changed after starting AYP?
2. Why do they say women should skip yoga practices during menstruation?
3. What is the best birth control method to follow? Pills play with the natural hormones in the system, and cannot be good for you. What other ways are there that a woman can follow for birth control that do not include medication?
A:
Those are good questions for the Tantra forum. I will be happy to post them and hopefully we will receive some suggestions from other yoginis.
As for my thoughts, not being a woman, I can only give you a limited perspective. We need input from the ladies on this one. Here are a few thoughts from this yogi:
1. The menstrual cycle can become less severe with lighter flow as more energy is being drawn upward from the pelvic region due to spiritual practices. Maybe the period will be less often. I have heard of this, but my experience is obviously limited, so your experience (and that of other yoginis) will be a better guide.
2. I don't think normal practices ought to be arbitrarily curtailed during the woman's period, as long as self-pacing is applied if there is any discomfort. Perhaps the advice to curtail yoga during the period is based on a more extreme and less adaptable practice routine -- which is their way of saying, "Pacing of practices may be necessary during menstruation so we are telling you not to practice at all during your period." AYP has a bit more finesse than that sort of rigid dictate, don't you think?
3. On birth control, well, there are many means, some not involving drugs -- but with the obvious sacrifices of naturalness. Tantric lovemaking with good holdback and blocking by the man would be birth control by definition, but we ought not count on that alone, as there can always be a slip-up. The Catholics use "the rhythm method." Maybe the rhythm method combined with holdback would be pretty good birth control, but you need a calendar and good tantric skills in both partners to do that. 
This raises the question: Is there such a thing as "natural" birth control? I'm not sure there is, except turning upward to the divine. That is a long term proposition, of course, with birth control being a by-product rather than a primary objective.
For whatever it is worth, my wife and I have three grown children and it all seemed to work itself out naturally over the years. It is between you and your husband, of course. But it can also be helpful to seek advice from friends who can offer additional perspectives. So you are wise to be asking...
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 10:24:35 AM
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The questioner asked:
3. What is the best birth control method to follow? Pills play with the natural hormones in the system, and cannot be good for you. What other ways are there that a woman can follow for birth control that do not include medication?
A word of warning about the 'tantric methods' of coitus interruptus for contraception -- the man may 'leak' without reaching orgasm, and without knowing it -- many people have become pregnant this way. So many people have become pregnant through coitus interruptus even WITHOUT any failure in self-control by the man.... To what extent a man 'leaks' and how much sperm is in the 'leakage' may be an individual and unknown feature of the man's anatomy.
This happened to one of my friends, btw. So, as the joke goes, Q. what do you call a man who practices coitus interruptus for contraception? A. Dad!
Don't be fooled by the couples who have practiced it for decades without pregnancy -- the man in such couples may just not be a 'leaker'. Until and unless there is a test for being a leaker, (or the man is sure somehow that he is not a 'leaker' this is an unreliable method.
The questioner said:
Pills play with the natural hormones in the system, and cannot be good for you.
My own offering on this for the questioner is that I want to, in as friendly a way as possible, question the logic of that statement.
Is it true that pills cannot be good for you?
Are you therefore always better without pills than with them?
Do you believe in taking no pills ever?
The birth control pill operates and modifies the hormones of the system certainly. But why is this modification of the hormones considered bad? What is the difference between 'operating on' and 'playing with'?
Are hormones sacred?
What other aspect of body chemistry is sacred?
Note by the way that the birth control pill gets the body to simulate pregnancy, which is in fact a very natural state....
I'd suggest evaluating the birth-control pill through cost-benefit-risk analysis, rather than through ideas of natural/unnatural.
'Natural and artificial' is good as a first line of attack for evaluating something, but I believe that it should be trumped by cost-benefit-risk analysis. Because ultimately, the distinction between natural and artificial breaks down, and it is also a shame when things which are believed 'natural' but which are more destructive are favored over superior things just because the superior things are considered artificial. Everything anything does is natural to it. The distinction between natural and artificial is ultimately artificial.
By the way, I am not necessarily taking a pro-pill stance, and I am not telling anyone what is better for them. The pill increases the risk of certain negative health effects, though it actually reduces the risk of certain other negative health effects. Then there are side-effects --- some women are certainly healthier and happier on the pill -- and some have side-effects that lead them to reject it.
Regards,
-David
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 09 2006 4:10:57 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 12:14:20 PM
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Okay, I'll bite. Hi David. There is no question that the Pill is the easiest and most effective birth control for men. Absolutely no side effects for them, other than a sometimes suicidal partner with a chronic yeast infection so nasty that sex is out of the question. My response to your questions is this: Try taking the a hormone-disrupting pill, not for a day or a week, but year after year, and find out for yourself what changes occur in your system. I've never met a woman who took it without side effects. She may have chosen to continue with them, b'c of the convenience factor, and b'c it almost guarantees no pregnancy. However, the long-term effects on the female system make it less and less popular. (Candida is one of the nastiest long-term side effects, which creates a yeast imbalance in the system which can take years to restore to health).
Hormones themselves are not sacred, any more than a delicate eco-system, or a car engine. It's the balance that's sacred, and the imbalance profane, or at the very least, inconvenient. The slightest adjustment to any of the above throws the system out of whack.
In answer to the woman who wrote to Yogani, there seems to be no "best" when it comes to birth control. My favorite is a vasectomy. My friend has an IUD and she swears by it--apparently the design has improved considerably and there are less side effects than there used to be (ie, cramping and bleeding). That would be the method I'd look into should the need arise. :)
m
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 12:48:59 PM
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Meg said:
There is no question that the Pill is the easiest and most effective birth control for men. Absolutely no side effects for them, other than a sometimes suicidal partner with a chronic yeast infection so nasty that sex is out of the question.
Meg,
Is your response written from the point of view of male-female unity, or is it colored by an angry identity-politics of male-female division? In any case I don't think you are being anywhere near your best in your response. Obviously, you have thrown your normal high level of logic away -- having a sometimes suicidal partner with a chronic yeast infection is not the easiest and most effective birth control for men. Or for a couple. Or for a woman.
A couple in that situation, if smart, should be trying something else.
If a woman has unsatisfactory side-effects on the pill, she should take those into account when evaluating whether it is for her or not. I have known many women who do not have undesirable side-effects from the pill. This is obviously not to say that women who do have undesirable side-effects from the pill should be using it. They should not. The other thing is that type of pill is very important as regards side-effects.
My post is recommending cost-benefit-risk analysis as something which should trump a first-order sense of natural-and-unnatural in choosing contraception (since, and as Yogani said also, all contraception is ultimately artificial).
I would suggest that cost-benefit-risk analysis also trump identity politics in the choice of contraception.
>> My favorite is a vasectomy.
Spoken like a true feminist. LOL. I have no favorite for anyone else. Vasectomy is great apart from one enormous limitation -- it's not appropriate for a man who may want to have children later.
The IUD, by the way, carries risks of its own. There is a very small risk of permanent infertility. I have known women to reject it outright on that basis.
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 09 2006 1:39:58 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 1:11:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Obviously, you have thrown your normal high level of logic away -- having a sometimes suicidal partner with a chronic yeast infection is not the easiest and most effective birth control for men. Or for a couple. Or for a woman.
Clearly a suicidal partner with a chronic yeast infection is a crappy side-effect for men to negotiate. I was being ironic. As were you, when you referred to my high-level logical capabilities.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2006 : 1:18:47 PM
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Meg said:
I was being ironic. As were you, when you referred to my high-level logical capabilities.
I was not being ironic when I said you were throwing away your normal high level of logic!! |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2006 : 3:56:03 PM
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Just as a matter of interest here
Whats wrong with using condoms? no one seems to have mentioned them as a safe method of contraception and protection against infections.
RICHARD |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2006 : 4:09:19 PM
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Richard,
It was just that my interpretation of the woman's question was that she wasn't asking about that. Of course it's a matter of interpretation, since a woman can 'use' a condom in the sense of saying 'wear this dude or else!'.
Now that you mention it, there are female condoms too....
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2006 : 6:43:55 PM
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Neem, a herb native to India has been clinically proven to be effective as birth control.. Has been used for thousands of years and is natural.
Can be used for both men and women. In men the herb is taken internally and over time, reduces sperm production(only while the herb it taken). For women, the oil of neem is applied to the vagina as a topical.
http://www.sisterzeus.com/neem.html |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2006 : 10:28:24 AM
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From that website:
Very little is known about many of the herbs, or about long term side effects or safety concerns. Most herbalists I've spoken with don't recommend herbs for contraception, because of their potential unreliability. Michael Tierra wrote in his response to questions about herbal contraception and abortion on his website "I lived and explored communally with a number of women herbal methods for contraception or inducing menstruation at within two weeks of its due time. Many herbal methods were tried with mixed results. People who are not interested in getting pregnant are usually not interested in mixed results." |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 03 2006 : 11:40:21 PM
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As contraception, male condoms are great, safe, and fabulous. And the female condom is coming of age as well... though I have no experience of it. I don't think a woman should go through the pill, except in a rare emergency, given all its effects. A male yogi would never think of putting his partner through it, and a female yogi would not put up with anything that forced her to use a pill.
To come to the practices during menstruation. We were very clearly told that women should not do the moolbandh during their period. This is simply because something that the body is trying to excrete is being redirected in the opposite direction during a moolbandh. Some people even discard the moolbandh when they have a case of constipation.
I cannot say that there was any noticeable change in the menstrual flow or cycle after beginning yogic practices. But yes, I never do the moolbandh during a period. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 10:19:54 AM
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I do mulabandha during my periods Sadhak.. try it and see the energy you feel.. It's not like you are in mulabandha all day.. There is a thing is India.. during your periods don't do this and don't do that... someone recently told me.. don't meditate during your periods.. all the negative energy in you is trying to flow out at this time, and by meditation you are amplifying it.. you say don't do mulabandha.. my yoga teacher in India used to say.. skip yoga during periods..
Sorry.. I have done it all.. there is not one thing I stop during my periods.
Check the thread female questions everyone here agrees that the energy level is higher during periods..
And since our energy level is already higer during this time.. I think we are told to stay away from any practices that can increase it even more... it could get out of hand.. you know overload.. but I have not had any trouble so far..
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 1:06:20 PM
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"Try taking the a hormone-disrupting pill, not for a day or a week, but year after year, and find out for yourself what changes occur in your system."
Oh yeah, or almost any kind of pill for that matter. Birth control pills aren't supposed to be taken for many years. you're supposed to quit them every so often and do something else, a good practice recommended for almost anything you put in your body. I don't know the recommended time, but something like one year, then quit. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 2:50:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Sorry.. I have done it all.. there is not one thing I stop during my periods.
Me neither. I meditate, have sex, exercise - whatever. I once was going to participate in a sweat lodge ritual, and was blown away that I wasn't allowed to b'c I was menstruating. A native American taboo, I was told, as a woman is considered 'impure' during that time. While I respect the customs of another culture, I found that to be rather primitive.
A few months ago I got an IUD. It's great. Very little discomfort*, and this one will be good for 10 yrs, which will take me well into menopause.  If any of you women are looking for a hassle-free method of birth control, I highly recommend it. Also, the design has improved considerably over the last decade, so if you rejected the idea when you were younger, you might take another look.
* Menstrual cramps and blood flow have dramatically reduced since it was inserted. |
Edited by - Manipura on Jun 04 2006 2:53:52 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 4:56:23 PM
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quote:
A native American taboo, I was told, as a woman is considered 'impure' during that time. While I respect the customs of another culture, I found that to be rather primitive.
I did not know it was a Native American Taboo.. it is a big thing in India.. I was always against it.. I still respect others and won't go to their house if there is a puja and I have my periods.. but that is as far as I am ready to go..
IUDs are great.. had one for 10 years.. should get the one I have now replaced I guess. The only reason I don't like IUDs is.. it increases my bleeding.. I bleed more.. and longer.. and heavier.. and spot even in between.. very annoying. I guess just the opposite of you Meg.. |
Edited by - Shanti on Jun 04 2006 7:20:23 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 5:22:10 PM
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quote:
Meg Said:If any of you women are looking for a hassle-free method of birth control, I highly recommend it. Also, the design has improved considerably over the last decade, so if you rejected the idea when you were younger, you might take another look.
I am not sure if it is still true.. but 12 years back my gyne had told me that it is not recommended for ladies who have not yet had a child, because sometimes it is harder to get pregnant later on. David has pointed this out earlier too, in one of his posts above.
quote:
David said: The IUD, by the way, carries risks of its own. There is a very small risk of permanent infertility
As I said, my knowledge in 12 years old.. medical news changes every 12 mins., so I cannot tell you if things have changed with the New and Improved IUD..
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Edited by - Shanti on Jun 04 2006 5:50:07 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 6:39:11 PM
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| Permanent infertility is exactly what I had in mind when I got mine. But for those who aren't as sure as I, definitely ask your gynecologist about it. Shanti - I wonder if you got an upgrade to a newer model if it would help with the bleeding. (I think they're smaller than they used to be). I was told that they should be replaced after 10 yrs., so you might be about due for a change anyway. The other factor which isn't so easily remedied is that you've had 3 kids and I've had none, which might explain the difference between our experiences. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 7:18:39 PM
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I have 2 kids Meg. I would have loved a third.. but my husband thinks college is too expensive.
Yes, I have to get a new IUD.. maybe a new and improved one would work better..
Thanks Meg.
PS: Meg, the warning about infertility was not for you.. but anyone who may decide to consider this option.. Sorry if it sounded like it was aimed at you..
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Edited by - Shanti on Jun 05 2006 08:05:49 AM |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 04 2006 : 10:19:04 PM
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[quoteI do mulabandha during my periods Sadhak.. try it and see the energy you feel.. It's not like you are in mulabandha all day..
[/quote]
I have tried mulabandha during periods, and the flow did become pretty scanty, because of which I stopped. It could be a variation from person to person... and since you use an IUD which does make you bleed extra, perhaps you are not affected to any noticeable extent. I tend to bleed less.
I agree there are quite a lot of unreasonable taboos associated with menstruation... but no point in throwing out the baby with the bathwater, if there is something in one of them that may have sense.
Yes, I do feel extra pulsation while doing the mulabandh during a period; but without knowing and experiencing to what effect it should or can be used, I wouldn't meddle with it.
But since both you and Meg say it doesn't affect the period, I'll try it again and see whether my previous experience was just a coincidence or something. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2006 : 3:36:41 PM
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Hi all
Shanti wrote:
quote:
And since our energy level is already higer during this time.. I think we are told to stay away from any practices that can increase it even more... it could get out of hand.. you know overload.. but I have not had any trouble so far..
My experience is that the energy indeed skyrockets about two days prior to my period. I have tested both options (drop everything and continue as normal). It is absolutely clear in my case that if I stop the practise during my period the energy goes straight up to my crown and stays there. It feels like "almost leaving my body" 24/7. It used to be all pressure; while as now it is all ecstacy. Still a little barrier there....not exactly pressure; but definitely a barrier of sorts....right in the middle of the head. Once in a while the barrier disappears completely - if I don't get up and start walking then, there is nothing to hold me back in the body. I dare not go that way. If I shall fly, I shall do it within my body. At least this is my gut feeling).
So - for some months now I have been very careful NOT to stop my practise during my period. Particularly not the Pranayama. I do, however reduce the meditation time a little. For some weeks now I self pace all the time anyhow - I am still down to 3 min of Pranayama and 5-7 min of meditation. For me - Pranayama is a life saving jewell. Without it, who knows where I would be...I feel the energy constantly. It is the last thing happening before drop off to sleep, and the first thing I wake up to in the morning.
The increased vulnerability during my period has given me a lot of information as to how my ego operates. Therefore I am grateful for the extra "study material" (the whole emotional package) released during the fall of hormones. If I am able to watch it instead of drown in it, the understanding I gain during these times are truly valuable. The watching capability is always enhanced by the meditation - no matter how reduced it is timewise.
I bleed less than I did a year ago; I used to stop bleeding for a day or two in the middle of the period, for about 8 months now it is one healthy flow. The period is shortened by about a day and a half.
As for the Pill......I don't know how many women I have met in my therapeutical practise over the past 12 years who suffer severe consequenses one way or other because of it. Many, many women do NOT benefit from the Pill - all things considered. Some do, of course. It is, after all, an easy way out of a potentially "messy" situation. Also - the younger they are (I am talking below age 22 or so), the less problems they have (with many exceptions, of course).I never categorically advise people to come of the Pill, - but whenever there are other health issues involved, it is always something that should be considered.
In Scandinavia we have an alternative called Persona. This is a urine tester (you use urin sticks with the urine every morning) that shows "red" (you need to use a condome or some other contraceptive during these days) and "green" days (you don't need to use anything). Used correctly (you need to have a fairly regular menstrual cycle) it is found to be just as safe as the Pill. It can also help you get pregnant since it shows you when you ovulate.
ok...roger and out
May all your Nows be Here |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2006 : 4:37:11 PM
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quote:
My experience is that the energy indeed skyrockets about two days prior to my period. I have tested both options (drop everything and continue as normal). It is absolutely clear in my case that if I stop the practise during my period the energy goes straight up to my crown and stays there.
Nice to see you back Katrine.
About what you have said above... I will have to keep an eye on my periods and see if this is true. I do feel extra energy a couple of days before..
I have trouble with too much heat in my crown at times, I have generally put it off as some form of purification.. generally stays for a day or two... let me keep an eye on this and see if it happens before my periods or not.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2006 : 10:50:57 PM
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Hi ladies am I allowed to write in this section?
Katrine wrote:
quote:
Once in a while the barrier disappears completely - if I don't get up and start walking then, there is nothing to hold me back in the body. I dare not go that way. If I shall fly, I shall do it within my body. At least this is my gut feeling).
Hi you!
Where would you go if you did dare? Have you thought about just peeking through a bit?
A few times while sleeping, I've found myself flying around in what I thought was an out-of-body-experience, only to notice it was in my body around "inner space". When I went by the crown chakra it tugged me up by the arm like severe turbulence but I couldn't get through it or I got a little scared and stopped trying, anyone ever experience this?
The inside space doesn't seem that intensely real to me, though sometimes more than others, I wonder if out there would?
I wonder what would happen if I tried to jump through? |
Edited by - Anthem on Jun 08 2006 10:52:17 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2006 : 03:16:49 AM
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Hi Anthem
quote:
Where would you go if you did dare? Have you thought about just peeking through a bit?
A few times while sleeping, I've found myself flying around in what I thought was an out-of-body-experience, only to notice it was in my body around "inner space". When I went by the crown chakra it tugged me up by the arm like severe turbulence but I couldn't get through it or I got a little scared and stopped trying, anyone ever experience this?
The inside space doesn't seem that intensely real to me, though sometimes more than others, I wonder if out there would?
I wonder what would happen if I tried to jump through?
See....the thing is, "just peeking through" is not an option. It is obvious that if I let go, it is out of my hands. There won't be anyone left for "peeking".
All I can say about this, Andrew, is that something is not right about it. Every opening in my process so far has happened in spite of me, not because of me. I have immense trust in Being. When it is time, it is time. So far, my inner alarm goes off, if I get close to leaving through the crown. I am not ready for it. The meeting (Shiva/Shakti) should happen within my inner space. I am certain of it. Yogani also stresses this point.
I used to be very curious about what was "out there". Now - with the amazing strength of the energy racing through my body 24/7 - I am having my hands full simply getting through this fase. It coincides with a very deep conflict in my life. The conflict dissolved about a week ago, and the main understanding I am left with is that there is nothing for me "out there". Nothing at all. Everything is in here.
So - all my work now is focused on the purification. I am developping inner vision, and until I see properly I am NOT exiting my body. Period.
I used to have out of body experiences when I was about 7 years old. I still remember the thrill and immense joy that accompanied them. But I told noone, and noone was there to explain what they were.
Actually, Andrew - I think you are out of your body when you fly around in inner space. Inner space is it. There is no other space.
I am glad you ventured into the lady space I am sure everyone here is delighted.
May all your Nows be Here |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2006 : 03:31:01 AM
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quote:
Nice to see you back Katrine.
Hi Shanti
It is nice to be back. I have had great days in Sweeden (teaching) and France (singing - Florilege Vocal in Tours). I think it must be my favorite occupation.....to tune into my fellow singers in the ensemble. Practising several times a day...and then perform. I turn into all ears and all heart and I simply love it
Please do report back, if you find that your energy increase coincides with your cycle - in any way.
May all your Nows be Here |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2006 : 11:09:50 AM
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Hi Katrine and Anthem
I imagine that when you are ready to let go you will. I also imagine that what you are holding on to is everything you are, or have been used to, and there may be tremendous fear to think of letting go. And I imagine that when you do let go that nothing will be lost, in fact you may find everything and more.
I'm just imagining
Peace, alan |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2006 : 1:32:42 PM
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Sadhak said:
I don't think a woman should go through the pill, except in a rare emergency, given all its effects. A male yogi would never think of putting his partner through it, and a female yogi would not put up with anything that forced her to use a pill.
Sadhak, there are a number of things I must take issue with in what you have said.
Firstly, your attitude to the pill is not shared by all yogis by any means.
Secondly, your language could be construed as essentially prescribing that people not use the pill by disparaging those who do use it, as not being yogis.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 09 2006 4:24:39 PM |
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