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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 5:12:19 PM
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Hi Chinna,
quote:
Jnana cannot be done. It happens. It can only be witnessed.[;)
It happens to you too, for sure!
You can do anything, you just have to believe!  |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 6:33:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Chinna,
quote:
Jnana cannot be done. It happens. It can only be witnessed.[;)
It happens to you too, for sure!
You can do anything, you just have to believe!
When you are no longer the doer or the believer, all happens in you.
chinna
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 7:02:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi Chinna :)
quote:
I love the symbolism of the goddess Chinnamasta - she cuts her own head off and puts it under her arm and bliss and light pour from her severed neck. She stands upon a copulating couple. What the jnani points to may seem very austere, but it is not at all 'dead', it is Life Itself. Our love of life is misplaced in our own little self and its designs.
I was shocked when I saw the pictures of Chinnamasta on Google! Yet a part of me wished I could do that too... such a sense of finality.
Well thank you for cutting off your head and bleeding on us! :)
Do you think that even though a person is an avatar (self declared or not) they may still incur karma while in the earth plane? (Adi Da)
:)
TI
Glad you like my beloved.
Of course, from the perspective of jnana, she is showing you what in fact is already the case. You are Chinnamasta, you just don't know it yet. You only imagine that your head and its consciousness are so important you can't afford to ignore them, and that you are not bliss-light pouring forth on to the 'others', and that you are the one who copulates.
 
chinna
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 7:31:33 PM
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Hi Chinna :)
quote:
Originally posted by chinna
The jnani knows him/herself as the Absolute, beyond cause and effect. Find yourself beyond your limited identity with body-mind and then who would be there to take delivery of karma?
Wouldn't the answer be "Everyone else in the world who the jnani has contacted"?
quote:
You have to achieve nothing - you are already THAT. When you see this, you will no longer believe in karma.
chinna
Maybe not a personal karma, but, for example, isn't karma a group thing? Even though Adi Da has passed on to the higher planes, isn't his karma living on through the experience/memories of those whom he affected (both positively and/or negatively)?
:)
TI |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 05:47:39 AM
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Hi Chinna,
quote:
When you are no longer the doer or the believer, all happens in you.
chinna
But it happens, no? Something wells up inside, and action takes place, as if from stillness, and in stillness. A doing without a doer, simply overflowing and pouring out. Then the bliss-light pours forth as Divine love.
Enjoy.
Christi |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 06:53:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Chinna,
quote:
When you are no longer the doer or the believer, all happens in you.
chinna
But it happens, no? Something wells up inside, and action takes place, as if from stillness, and in stillness. A doing without a doer, simply overflowing and pouring out. Then the bliss-light pours forth as Divine love.
Enjoy.
Christi
What is this 'inside', and this 'welling up'?
Where is this stillness 'located'?
Remember - all same taste, no boundaries, not-two.
Inside/outside, up/down are the perspective of ego.
Just so, bliss/no-bliss.
Look beyond the blisses and divine love. To whom or what do they arise? From where are they perceived?
chinna |
Edited by - chinna on Jan 10 2010 06:59:23 AM |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 08:34:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi Chinna :)
quote:
Originally posted by chinna
The jnani knows him/herself as the Absolute, beyond cause and effect. Find yourself beyond your limited identity with body-mind and then who would be there to take delivery of karma?
Wouldn't the answer be "Everyone else in the world who the jnani has contacted"?
quote:
You have to achieve nothing - you are already THAT. When you see this, you will no longer believe in karma.
chinna
Maybe not a personal karma, but, for example, isn't karma a group thing? Even though Adi Da has passed on to the higher planes, isn't his karma living on through the experience/memories of those whom he affected (both positively and/or negatively)?
:)
TI
Only apparently, to the extent that they continue to believe in the illusory limited self.
All we can say of cause and effect, the chain of causation, is that everything is the cause and everything the effect of everything else. In other words, there is no special cause and effect and thus no karma.
Special cause and effect, karma, is the medicine for those of us who want to be special.
The moment we let go of self and see holistically, see the holy, this is clear. Thus there can be no judgement. All is holy. All shall be well, as Mother Julian said. Nobody can be lost.
Look at Genesis chapters 1 and 2, the myth of how the trouble started. The Fall (of attention into the limited self, so that Adam and Eve knew shame) is inseparable from consuming the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And once this step is taken, we are cast out of Eden and all the suffering and miseries of mankind are there.
Genesis is jnana, there is no karma. I can feel a song coming on.
chinna |
Edited by - chinna on Jan 10 2010 09:08:46 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 09:53:22 AM
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Hi Chinna,
quote:
What is this 'inside', and this 'welling up'?
Where is this stillness 'located'?
Remember - all same taste, no boundaries, not-two.
Inside/outside, up/down are the perspective of ego.
chinna
The inside is inside the body. The welling up is within the body, welling up as ecstasy and radiating out into action from there.
Stillness surrounds and penetrates all things, even as action happens. So although inside/ outside, up and down have no relevance in terms of consciousness, they still have relevance in terms of the world of form and in terms of action in the world.
quote:
Look beyond the blisses and divine love. To whom or what do they arise? From where are they perceived?
In this centre of being, right here, right now.
This is where belief comes in to play in the spiritual path. If bliss and love are not your constant companions, then it is belief that can take you to the next level.
The one taste, is the taste of divine love, everywhere. We are That.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 11:54:16 AM
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Hi Chinna,
p.s.
I don't know if you have read Yogani's book on Self-inquiry, but if you haven't you may find it interesting. In it he talks about 5 stages of the development of self-inquiry practice, and the fith stage is described here:
quote:
Outpouring Divine Love and Unity
No one knows what the true nature of existence is outside the realm of time and space. Yet, oddly enough, we can experience it directly. The reason we say “We cannot know” is because the reality we are all able to experience through deep meditation and self-inquiry is outside the field of knowing. It is That, and thousands of volumes have been written attempting to describe That.
In the end, the best we can do is say, “I am That.” Then we can carry on with the many descriptions of That – pure bliss consciousness, void, Tao, God, Allah… It doesn’t really matter what we call it. That is as good a word as any, and we are That. All that
exists is That. If it sounds a little impersonal, it is not intended to be. For That is the source of all love, compassion, goodness, creativity and happiness in the world. That illuminates us with these divine qualities, and is the source of all good deeds. [p39]
Christi |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 5:27:38 PM
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Beyond THAT, the initial "two-in-one," the inseparable compassion/emptiness, the first application of joy, love.
Adamant |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2010 : 7:07:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Chinna,
p.s.
I don't know if you have read Yogani's book on Self-inquiry, but if you haven't you may find it interesting. In it he talks about 5 stages of the development of self-inquiry practice, and the fith stage is described here:
quote:
Outpouring Divine Love and Unity
No one knows what the true nature of existence is outside the realm of time and space. Yet, oddly enough, we can experience it directly. The reason we say “We cannot know” is because the reality we are all able to experience through deep meditation and self-inquiry is outside the field of knowing. It is That, and thousands of volumes have been written attempting to describe That.
In the end, the best we can do is say, “I am That.” Then we can carry on with the many descriptions of That – pure bliss consciousness, void, Tao, God, Allah… It doesn’t really matter what we call it. That is as good a word as any, and we are That. All that
exists is That. If it sounds a little impersonal, it is not intended to be. For That is the source of all love, compassion, goodness, creativity and happiness in the world. That illuminates us with these divine qualities, and is the source of all good deeds. [p39]
Christi
Dear Christi
The jnani does not generally 'carry on with the many descriptions of THAT'. The eight-limbed yogi may well do - Yogani writes of self-enquiry for them. Jnana yoga is impersonal, austere, that is the point. It is the philosophical yoga for those whose drive is absolute truth rather than love or experience or whatever. It is for those who find their anchor beyond desire. Bhakta, blisses and divine love will be attractive to those of a different sensibility. Some find these words distractingly sugary, just as others find jnana too austere. Thank goodness, there is a path for everyone, as many as there are people. Svatantrya. Eight limbs, indeed countless limbs, in all possible combinations and sequences, or just one. All options lead to and represent the same.
For the jnani, any settled description of THAT is too much. The jnani only points to THAT. What happens is what happens. What is is what is. No need to assert or conceptualise anything. For the jnani bliss suggests not-bliss, divine love suggests not-love.
THAT is an impersonal, undefined, word for good reason. But if it is found too austere, impersonal, unsatisfying, the way of the jnani will not engage the seeker and more attractive words, practices and teachers will be sought.
As a young Roman Catholic, I always found the Catholic doctrine of The Real Presence, the heart of catholic devotion, very sad. If one believes in the Real Presence, one also believes in The Real Absence. If one does not believe in The Real Absence, the term Real Presence is meaningless. I also found all the spiritual stories and sentimentality too much, and in other traditions too as I discovered them. I never had any shortage of blisses and transports of love, but I always mistrusted them. They came and went and so were not IT. I needed an Absolute anchor, and so ultimately I found jnana and zen, and in the western philosophical tradition Wittgenstein and Derrida's deconstruction. And was not disappointed. Your own sensibility and history will similarly have shaped your yoga path and the words you prefer to use for THAT.
Wittgenstein once said to a friend 'I am like a man who you see out of the window and think is walking along normally, but in fact I am struggling to walk against a very strong wind.' For such a man, truth, the unchangeable, must be his anchor and his guide. And talk of blisses and of divine love in the context of the pursuit of truth, the language of analogy, will be avoided.
Why insist on such words for everyone, when it is accepted that they are all only words for THAT, that they are ultimately only abstractions, analogies?
We just keep demonstrating that you are not a jnani, and that I am nothing else. That's ok. No need to go around in circles. As I keep saying, I am only representing one path, the one I know. My job is not to say 'oh I agree, let's use any words you like'. That would help nobody, and would sell short the path and the truth-bearers to whom I owe my freedom. It would be a betrayal.
I do try and keep to the 'jnana' and 'other systems' forums. I am not offering a critique of eight-limbed sadhana. Far from it. I am representing this Self using the most accurate pointers I can, for those who share similar sensibilities and have not yet also realised that this freedom is their own Self.
chinna
PS I am saying that, for the person who is attracted to jnana for the right reasons, the Way can be found without focusing on cultivating bliss and divine love. And for such a person, bliss-love talk will be a distraction. The jnani feels that the body-mind is present for such a short time, and so does not focus on its transformation and the application of the analogical imagination to the outcome. S/he feels the need to go straight to the Absolute, and to realise that it has ever been Thus. Bliss and love or agony and misery - all same taste. Jnana brings freedom, unity and thus appropriate action, whatever the prevailing sensations have been. I think of Jesus, who apparently died in despair. Some may be sustained by words of love-bliss under duress. Others more sustained by words of truth. We can know how real our words are only when we are so tested. |
Edited by - chinna on Jan 11 2010 05:41:23 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 06:58:27 AM
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Hi Chinna,
quote:
Why insist on such words for everyone, when it is accepted that they are all only words for THAT, that they are ultimately only abstractions, analogies?
I wasn't insisting on anything, only answering your questions as best I can, and making information available. What you choose to do with that is up to you.
quote:
We just keep demonstrating that you are not a jnani, and that I am nothing else. That's ok. No need to go around in circles. As I keep saying, I am only representing one path, the one I know. My job is not to say 'oh I agree, let's use any words you like'. That would help nobody, and would sell short the path and the truth-bearers to whom I owe my freedom. It would be a betrayal.
Why the labels? Who is it who thinks she is a Jnani, and that I am not? Who is it who is creating division and seperation? When we go deeply into this matter, ultimately we see that there are no Jnanis and never were, just as there are no Yogis and never were. Seeing this brings us into true relationship with what is, and this is freedom.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Jan 11 2010 07:39:31 AM |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 10:06:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Chinna,
quote:
Why insist on such words for everyone, when it is accepted that they are all only words for THAT, that they are ultimately only abstractions, analogies?
I wasn't insisting on anything, only answering your questions as best I can, and making information available. What you choose to do with that is up to you.
quote:
We just keep demonstrating that you are not a jnani, and that I am nothing else. That's ok. No need to go around in circles. As I keep saying, I am only representing one path, the one I know. My job is not to say 'oh I agree, let's use any words you like'. That would help nobody, and would sell short the path and the truth-bearers to whom I owe my freedom. It would be a betrayal.
Why the labels? Who is it who thinks she is a Jnani, and that I am not? Who is it who is creating division and seperation? When we go deeply into this matter, ultimately we see that there are no Jnanis and never were, just as there are no Yogis and never were. Seeing this brings us into true relationship with what is, and this is freedom.
Christi
Dear Christi
Beyond separation there is no need for yoga or forums such as this, or categorisation of paths and practices such as tradition, and indeed Yogani, offers. Within yoga, paths are not 'all the same', though the destination might be. Whilst there is yoga, there is the need for precision and distinction. Sadhana is not helped by woolliness.
This is a thread about no-path. I am asserting that the no-path way does not need a focus on bliss and divine love, such as is found in the AYP and other paths, whatever its outcomes may be.
I am sorry if asserting distinctions between paths feels divisive and excluding to you. You seem to cover many bases other than jnana, which is admirable.
chinna (Mr)
- this side of eternity, these differences are significant too! |
Edited by - chinna on Jan 11 2010 10:15:09 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 4:25:06 PM
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Hi (Mr) Chinna ,
quote:
This is a thread about no-path. I am asserting that the no-path way does not need a focus on bliss and divine love, such as is found in the AYP and other paths, whatever its outcomes may be.
Absolutely, I appologise if you though I was saying that it did. These things (mention of the attributes of the Absolute) can be helpful, inspiring even, even in the path of no-path, but they are certainly not a requisite.
quote:
I am sorry if asserting distinctions between paths feels divisive and excluding to you.
O.K. lets put it another way: you said: "We just keep demonstrating that you are not a jnani, and that I am nothing else."
Why do you think that I am not a jnani?
Christi
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 5:08:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Why do you think that I am not a jnani?
Christi
....Because your interventions and apparent interests model a different path to jnana yoga. Yours appears to be a broader path and range of interests than the focus associated with non-dual jnana.
Being a jnani is not a badge of anything, other than a rather specialised competency, any more than being a teacher of any other path of yoga, or indeed a teacher of anything else. The jnani can only walk the path; what happens at its end is nothing to do with him/her, and cannot be named.
The West has often failed to understand that the honour granted to spiritual teachers in India is, in most circles, not so very different to the honour granted to musical or literary teachers, for example. In the Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, the music teachers and poets are every bit as honoured as the yoga teachers. Let's not fall for the western mystification of yoga capabilities, or we'll end up with Osho and Adi Da and all the rest all over again. It is a western misunderstanding of a traditional useage in a very different culture.
I use the term jnani as it was used by Nisargadatta, to refer to all dedicated jnana practitioners who have submitted themselves to a jnana lineage. It is not used to refer to any kind of personal achievement, the idea of which would immediately invalidate its use.
chinna |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2010 : 7:45:03 PM
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Hi Chinna,
But Jnana is a part of a greater whole... it has to be. In an integral yoga, jnana yoga is one aspect of that, like a branch on a tree. Strictly speaking, jnana yoga is a subset of bhakti yoga, because without spiritual desire it doesn't go very far. In fact without the belief in the possibility of something more, who would embark on it in the first place? Jnana is really something which rises within yoga as one becomes ripe, a natural progression of the development of inner silence.
According to his own statements, for Nisargadatta, the jnani was the knower of the Self, both as the witness and as the supreme. This is also the traditional understanding of the term in yoga.
Taking this less exclusionary definition of jnana yoga means that there is no yogi who does not become a jnani. It is the common destination for all of us (and our divine inheritance).
I do of course respect your definition of a jnani, but even according to your own definition, I cannot see why you would say that I am not a jnani? After all, even Nisargadatta had his daily yoga practice, and talked of the bliss and the all-embracing love of Self realization.
Christi
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jan 12 2010 : 05:52:35 AM
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Hi Chinna,
p.s.
This is why I would say to ask yourself who is it who thinks that you are a jnani, and I am not. Quite often, it is those who are most ardent in espousing the oneness of all things, who are also most ardent in creating division and exclusion where in reality it does not exist.
It is this very seperation ("I am this", you are that") which is the ending of love. When it is seen through, love is.
quote:
"Q: Do you know such an unlimited love?
Nisargadatta: Yes, I do.
Q: How does it feel?
Nisargadatta: All is loved and loveable, nothing is excluded.
Q: Not even the ugly and the criminal?
Nisargadatta: All is within my consciousness, all is my own.It is madness to split oneself through likes and dislikes. I am beyond both. I am not alienated.
Q: To be free from like and dislike is a state of indifference.
Nisargadatta: It may look and feel so in the beginning. Persevere in such indifference and it will blossom into an all-pervading and all-embracing love."
[I Am That p508]
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Jan 12 2010 11:40:47 AM |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2010 : 04:16:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Chinna,
But Jnana is a part of a greater whole... it has to be. In an integral yoga, jnana yoga is one aspect of that, like a branch on a tree. Strictly speaking, jnana yoga is a subset of bhakti yoga, because without spiritual desire it doesn't go very far. In fact without the belief in the possibility of something more, who would embark on it in the first place? Jnana is really something which rises within yoga as one becomes ripe, a natural progression of the development of inner silence.
According to his own statements, for Nisargadatta, the jnani was the knower of the Self, both as the witness and as the supreme. This is also the traditional understanding of the term in yoga.
Taking this less exclusionary definition of jnana yoga means that there is no yogi who does not become a jnani. It is the common destination for all of us (and our divine inheritance).
I do of course respect your definition of a jnani, but even according to your own definition, I cannot see why you would say that I am not a jnani? After all, even Nisargadatta had his daily yoga practice, and talked of the bliss and the all-embracing love of Self realization.
Christi
Dear Christi
As is already clear, we are talking at cross purposes. I am speaking of paths, and you of destinations. But there are reasons behind why each of us chooses these grounds. My purpose is, as I consistently say, to clarify for those who are helped by that, the path of jnana yoga as distinct to the integral path, or any other path. This enterprise seems to make you repeatedly, on different threads, want to claim divisive intent on the part of anyone who presents a jnana/non-dual view, even on the 'jnana' or 'alternative approaches' forums. I don't know why you would need to do that. But an emotional reaction it seems. It is not just about 'information'.
There is much distinction in practice, of anything. Clarity and intent are what practice is about. Just adopting the high ground of non-duality in a conversation which is about paths (even no-path!), to avoid a proper (in this context) discriminationm, is not helpful. Jnana practice is a constant practice of discrimination, until it is not. That you wish to keep asserting a different discrimination, between 'divisive people' and integral yoga, represented by yourself, is what I notice.
As I have often said on this forum, the practice of jnana yoga may indeed bring about all the phenomena associated with other yoga paths, just as Nisargadatta confirmed helpfully for me. But the practice of jnana does not need to be an integral yoga in that you have to practice all the paths. That is the only point I consistently make, for those who are drawn to self-enquiry alone and wonder, in AYPs context, if that is enough. I think it is, and I hope that may be a useful contribution, under the 'jnana' and 'alternative approaches' forums.
Jnani is generally used in the tradition to indicate a knower of the Self who has lost him/herself predominantly in jnana-marga and represents that truth clearly. One who has lost him/herself in devotion similarly is a bhakta. Etc. Like saying one is a violinist, or a flautist, so that others can join you in the right school. No point buying flute primers and attending flute school, if your thing is the violin, or indeed orchestra conducting as perhaps the integral types might be interested in.
You want to be the whole orchestra, which perhaps is a justified aim for an integral yogaist. But less helpful to anyone trying to discern whether it's ok to follow their instincts and practice jnana yoga alone.
Whilst we are afflicted by the pains of duality, the jnani's path to discrimination is non-duality. No-path and non-duality are discrminating concepts and are not the same as integral yoga or bhakta yoga. If they are said to be the same, a forum to discuss yoga practice is redundant.
There are many passages, indeed most, where Nisargadatta scorns any suggestion of yoga practices, of doing anything, for those who are ready to hear it.
Why you keep responding to a properly discriminating point by claiming divisive intent is puzzling. I can understand that for one who felt excluded by a discrimination between yoga paths, the whole-orchestra, integral approach would clearly be the drive. We all have such motivations, and the finding of the path which matches our own is what I am concerned with, in particular for those of us troubled enough to need the single-minded yoga of jnana alone. Integral yogis will be no exception in this issue of the discriminating emotional drive to practice and indeed champion one approach or another.
chinna
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Edited by - chinna on Jan 13 2010 05:44:37 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2010 : 06:25:29 AM
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Hi Chinna,
quote:
As is already clear, we are talking at cross purposes. I am speaking of paths, and you of destinations.
I am speaking of both paths and destinations. Paths in terms of the inter-relatedness of yoga, and destinations in terms of the results of that yoga.
quote:
But there are reasons behind why each of us chooses these grounds. My purpose is, as I consistently say, to clarify for those who are helped by that, the path of jnana yoga as distinct to the integral path, or any other path. This enterprise seems to make you repeatedly, on different threads, want to claim divisive intent on the part of anyone who presents a jnana/non-dual view, even on the 'jnana' or 'alternative approaches' forums.
Just to clarify, I have never claimed divisive intent by those offering a non-dual view. All I have ever done is to say that sometimes clarifications need to be given to avoid the potential of confusing people (especially beginners). That applies to any forum, as confusion can happen anywhere. I was not implying divisive intent on your part, I was simply asking you to examine, to look into, who it is, who wants to set himself appart?
quote:
Why you keep responding to a properly discriminating point by claiming divisive intent is puzzling. I can understand that for one who felt excluded by a discrimination between yoga paths, the whole-orchestra, integral approach would clearly be the drive. We all have such motivations, and the finding of the path which matches our own is what I am concerned with, in particular for those of us troubled enough to need the single-minded yoga of jnana alone. Integral yogis will be no exception in this issue of the discriminating emotional drive to practice and indeed champion one approach or another.
Sorry if there is any confusion here. I wasn't at all championing one path over another, what I was saying is that the very distinction is meaningless. There is no such thing as a jnana yoga, independent from the rest of the movement of yoga. I realize that there are some who would like to suggest that there is, who seem to have forgotten their past.
Of course, there are different practices within yoga, and we can use terms to differentiate between those practices (or paths if you will). What I am saying is that we should not fall into the trap of identifying with the path in the sense of "I am this", "you are that". I was pointing out that it is only when we let go of this contracted identification, that we come into a true understanding of love. The path becomes the destination.
All the best,
Christi |
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yogani
USA
5249 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2010 : 09:46:56 AM
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Hi All:
I have been tempted to put a few cents into this discussion, but nothing came. So practice continues...
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2010 : 10:30:09 AM
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Hi Chinna, Christi....
I know it is likely not warranted, nor desired for me to chime in here, but I am anyways ...you know me....always sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong.
What I wanted to say here was what came to mind when reading your last post Chinna....in my experience, all paths of Yoga are intimately intertwined. You may start one path, and later find yourself on another path without ever having made any decision to "switch". In my experience each path flows effortlessly into the others. It's like each path is part of a large circle and there is much overlap. One person my be practicing "jnana" in their own mind, but another person doing the same set of practices/non-practices may consider this "bhakti" yoga....one person may be practicing what they deem "kundalini" yoga, but another doing the exact same set of practices may consider their path "tantra". To me, all the paths of yoga are inseperable, at least at some points. They are all part of a greater whole and you can't do only one style of yoga because they all blend together in the end.
Just my 2 cents.
Love.
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2010 : 10:33:35 AM
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The reason why you are all confused, is because all these elements were borrowed haphazardly from buddhism. Only the original...buddhism has a clear path. Even if buddhism is not the original, the path is still clearer there.
Final enlightenment (Nisargadatta etc.) is still just step ONE.
After you obtain the final enlightenment, you must do yoga because of your bodicitta/compassion. You purposely gain yogic power/siddhi to help others. Omniscience is one of these powers. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Jan 13 2010 10:42:22 AM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2010 : 12:39:28 PM
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| There are many roads to Delhi. |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2010 : 1:22:24 PM
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I love how you can do yoga to get enlightenment and siddhis or get enlightenment to do yoga and get siddhis.
The sideways eight that represents the infinite appears as the map of the path.
I've suddenly agreed with Alwayson. Whoa!
Adamant |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2010 : 2:39:54 PM
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Thanks Christi. We are presenting different points of view for different purposes. You seem unwilling to recognise that, so the conversation becomes ever less fruitful. There is no correct answer to anything, nothing that is simply 'information', including in yoga.
There is a jnana marga which is not the same as other yoga paths, in terms of what you do and don't do, what you focus on and don't focus on.
There is a difference between a practice and a path, which is at once acknowledged and obscured in those brackets of yours. Self-enquiry is a practice, jnana is a path. What is to be discriminated and ignored in one path, is practice to another.
The one constant in my 'inner life' since I was able to reflect has been what I recognised in jnana. I don't believe I have forgotten my past. But I guess when the evidence of my life doesn't fit your theory, the flaw must be in me, for sure. Jnana has always been my orientation, within a range of religious contexts. I have never been drawn to other orientations. I guess that I must have a very long way to go, in your book.
chinna
(a contracted, over-identified, jnana yogi) |
Edited by - chinna on Jan 13 2010 2:44:40 PM |
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What Does Practicing No Path Mean?
