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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 24 2009 : 08:30:02 AM
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Hi all,
Lately,while doind self inquiry,using the four "the work" questions (amazing tool),i realize and feel that all that toughts and feelings are not me.Ok,thats right and thats neti-neti after all.
But the issue is that i realize3 that all that toughts and feelings that i believe or believed that were mine are related with other people.
Im talking about family and friends.When i close my eyes while doing inquiry and doing a connection with my feelings,i clearly percieve many dark areas that are like food for people around me.Like in the jungle,there are/we are also energetic predators.
I realize that all my joy in life depends on other people more than me.Its a falso joy that i tought was right.This is not true joy cz when doing my inquiry im begining to percieve that when im having a nice time with friends or family theres a little me inside that is alone and never enjoys the party.And this little me inside is the key for personal freedom and realization.
Today while doing my inquiries i realized that probably friends of mine and my family are using some of my energies and fears and i dont like this.
The question is: what methods do you use for working with the links that all we have atached in our energetic system? How to clean them up?
Another question:
I use to smoke 3 or 4 cigarretes each day.There was people in my family that were adicted to tabacco and are not here now (some for tabacco causes,other for natural causes,im talking about grandparents and other people).Sometimes while exploring my energetic system with eyes closed (self inquiry lead me to this spontaneous exercice many times) i percieve dark areas due to tabaco smoke,and i percive also a strange force connected with my adiction to tobacco.I pèrcieve a subtle shape/entitie atached to the back of my chest,in the back area..
Is possible that non embodied souls/spirits/...are linked with me for example becuse they were adicted to tabacco in life and now they need to get it using my body.I clearly percieve sometimes that is not me who is addicted to tobacco.I have listened this before from an important reiki healer and maybe its true.
This not only happens with cigarretes,it also happens with food,alcohol,many habits...
Here we have many advanced practicioners that im sure they are familiar with this phenomena.
May all your nows be here 
Thanks. |
Edited by - miguel on Dec 24 2009 09:15:55 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2009 : 10:46:47 AM
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I would suggest doing "the work" and dropping/turning around the things that can be dropped/turned around. Then when you realize there are things that are subtler and can't be "worked" on, do the samyama kind of inquiry on them. So bring up the question, feeling, discomfort, impression and let it go in stillness. At any point of the day, something comes up, try to apply the four questions and let it go, if it seems like the question/feeling/discomfort is unclear, you cant really put words/questions to describe it... bring it up in it's raw form and let it go in stillness, knowing you will have an answer from within even if your mind never understands it.
Have a wonderful holiday Miguel. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2009 : 11:50:08 AM
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Hey Brother Miguel
quote:
Originally posted by miguel
I realize that all my joy in life depends on other people more than me.Its a falso joy that i tought was right.This is not true joy cz when doing my inquiry im begining to percieve that when im having a nice time with friends or family theres a little me inside that is alone and never enjoys the party.And this little me inside is the key for personal freedom and realization.
I think this is really common dude. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people out there who are "happy" as long as the circumstances surrounding them at the time are right.....but you are seeing now that true happiness comes from within and is not dependent on external circumstances. My guess would be, that the feeling of not being able to be fully happy in the moment is tied to you realizing that you are only happy because the circumstances are right, and that you are looking for the "deeper" happiness that comes from inside and needs nothing outside of itseld. I would suggest, as Shanti did above, that when these feelings arise, the feelings of alone-ness, feelings of unhappiness within "happiness", that you touch that feeling, and then release it....samyama style. In my experience you can't just jump into full inner happiness just by thinking "I am happy no matter what"....it is a process and you are well on your way already....the first step (IMO) is identifying that externally caused happiness doesn't last, isn't "real", is "false" (as you say above). Finding lasting inner happiness is the key to ridding yourself of these feelings. So my suggestion is basically the same as Shanti's.....when you feel this sadness/aloneness/unhappiness imbedded within your externally caused happiness, touch it and release it. And keep up your practices! 
quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Today while doing my inquiries i realized that probably friends of mine and my family are using some of my energies and fears and i dont like this.
Don't buy into that thought then. Do The Work on that thought. The Work is to be done on statements that cause you suffering. So use the statement "friends of mine and my family are using some of my energies and fears and i dont like this" in The Work, ask yourself the 4 questions, turn it around, and then release it. Embrace reality. Any thought that is causing you to suffer is not worth holding on to. You can't KNOW that your family and friends are feeding off of your energies and fears, and if you turn it around, perhaps it is YOU who is feeding off of THEIR energies! Let go of that thought and be free to have full inner happiness.
quote:
Originally posted by miguel
The question is: what methods do you use for working with the links that all we have atached in our energetic system? How to clean them up?
The Work should be fine. Can you absolutely KNOW that there are "links" attached to your energetic system? Is believing this thought causing you to suffer? If so, let go of that thought and be free to have full inner happiness.
quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Is possible that non embodied souls/spirits/...are linked with me for example becuse they were adicted to tabacco in life and now they need to get it using my body.
Anything is possible, but I would wager a guess that this is not the case Miguel. Again, if these thoughts (that there is an entity attached to you that wants you to smoke) are causing you to suffer it is time to let go of them. Can you absolutely KNOW that there is an entity doing as you say? Is believing that thought causing you to suffer? If so....you know what to do....let go of it and be free!
I hope you and All have a very Merry Christmas! HoHoHo!!!
Love,
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2009 : 6:11:23 PM
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hi shanti!
quote:
Then when you realize there are things that are subtler and can't be "worked" on, do the samyama kind of inquiry on them. So bring up the question, feeling, discomfort, impression and let it go in stillness.
Yes...what i do is to use bhakti ayp tool.I mean,i focus on that subtle impresions (that i see like darkness/fear) and substitute it slowly with my ishta devata (inner silence).This is what i do most of the time.I substitue it and stay there some seconds,feeling the experience.I do it several times,specially while doing the work.
Other times i let the feeling go in to inner silence.I left it to my ishta.The inner silence.And stay there some seconds also (sometimes minutes).
And finally sometimes,not much times,i catch the tought during my day and use the question "is this tought real",and let it go in to stillness.
I prefer doing the four questions and the bhakti method cz i enjoy it more and get more clarity.
quote:
At any point of the day, something comes up, try to apply the four questions and let it go
I think you mean writing the tought in paper and doing the questions,taking my time..but...is it possible to do the questions mentally while doing normal activities? the same powerfull effect? just curiosity.
The work is a really amazing tool.Its helping me a lot.the peaceful feelings after doing it (and i begin doing it with very bad feelings sometimes) are even phisical.I feel vibration in different areas (releasing my stored emotions) and percieve with my inner vision new layers of darkness and pain.Sometimes i see images/feelings from my early childhood or my past again after many years.I think this is a real gift and it indicates that purification and opening is working.
Is really good the opening and evolution with friends,family and my own self.My dm is getting really deep and powerfull...its really wonderful.
Wish you a merry christmas shanti.
Thanks so much.
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Edited by - miguel on Dec 24 2009 7:01:10 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2009 : 6:40:17 PM
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quote:
I think this is really common dude. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people out there who are "happy" as long as the circumstances surrounding them at the time are right.....but you are seeing now that true happiness comes from within and is not dependent on external circumstances.
Yessss,and its wonderful isnt it? This is the most important discover in my life!
quote:
In my experience you can't just jump into full inner happiness just by thinking "I am happy no matter what"....
Yes,and i begining to percieve how false was my "happiness" in the past.It was only a mask.I "created" my hapiness,"create" and "image",but it was false.How many people i see in the outhere saying "im happy,be happy" (and maybe some of them are happy),"respect all the opinions" (is this possible for a human?,maybe externally,but inside all we are judging all the time...)
I mean,happiness in this world,in this time is really patetic thing.its only a "label...whos really happy???"
I understand the attitude,after all is a possitive attitude and and effort for get happiness and try to scape from suffering.
Many people talk abou liberty,justice,freedom,good vibrations...but...i am sure many of them and me insede are the opposite most of the times.Why? cz human mind make judges.
some time ago i believed many atitudes is society that now i see as ridicolous behaviour.I stoped doing this actions for creating a cool image.(o yes,im a cool guy.look at me...baby...look at me,i need love(i was an expert using this behaviour))
oh no,only jails!!!
quote:
Don't buy into that thought then. Do The Work on that thought. The Work is to be done on statements that cause you suffering. So use the statement "friends of mine and my family are using some of my energies and fears and i dont like this" in The Work, ask yourself the 4 questions, turn it around, and then release it. Embrace reality. Any thought that is causing you to suffer is not worth holding on to.
I havent tought it,and thats what happens always with this tool.Im dissolving little toughts the are inside BIG toughts.Its difficult to see the big toughts.Time to time?
quote:
You can't KNOW that your family and friends are feeding off of your energies and fears, and if you turn it around, perhaps it is YOU who is feeding off of THEIR energies!
Yes
I realized it after writing this post this evening.All we are getting things from each other.. Yes,all is in my mind,icreate my reality.
quote:
be free to have full inner happiness.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ....inner tears of joy,like a dream coming true...freedommmm...can feel it
quote:
Anything is possible, but I would wager a guess that this is not the case Miguel. Again, if these thoughts (that there is an entity attached to you that wants you to smoke) are causing you to suffer it is time to let go of them. Can you absolutely KNOW that there is an entity doing as you say? Is believing that thought causing you to suffer? If so....you know what to do....let go of it and be free!
Great
hohohohohoho
many many thanks brother
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Edited by - AYPforum on Dec 24 2009 7:04:49 PM |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 05:42:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
[
The question is: what methods do you use for working with the links that all we have atached in our energetic system? How to clean them up?
I pèrcieve a subtle shape/entitie atached to the back of my chest,in the back area..
I clearly percieve sometimes that is not me who is addicted to tobacco.
Dear Miguel
If you want to work the non-dual jnana way, simply keep enquiring (as a matter of feeling-exploration) into the 'field' within which these thoughts and feelings, indeed all forms, arise. Never get caught up in the perceptions themselves, and the stories and theories which the mind, or other people's minds, attach to them, even those of the 'highest' gurus and scriptures.
When we are interested in all this stuff that is noticed as 'ours', we cannot rightly attach the words 'jnana' or 'non-duality' or 'self-enquiry' to it. It's still personal perceptions and meanings that are being sought.
The first step is to see all that you notice, including the noticer, as impersonal 'stuff', just phenomena passing through limitless consciousness. The moment you realise how limitless the field that is 'you' truly is, the phenomena will vanish along with the field and all your reactions to it, whether tears, joy, fear, whetever.
And then you will be free. You can't be free of the fears and not the tears of joy also.
This freedom is always already the case, and in reality is all that is the case.
chinna |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 3:37:05 PM
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Very inspiring post chinna.Thanks so much.It comes in the right moment.
Yes,im very involved in self inquiry lately.Amazing journey of neti neti.
The question that arises this days also is this:
I have been doing yoga "with my mind".I mean,today i was doing self inquiry with this toughts:
"I need to meditate"
"i need to practice yoga"
"I want to get self realitation/higher states of conciousness"
I did my self inquiry method using the four katies questions.
The work is done now.
I realized that mental obects created great stress and anxiety here.All the day thinking about yoga.
The question is: who can i continue doing my practices without this toughts? Im a bit afraid of dissolving this toughts in stillness.I used that toughts for being secure that i would do my dm sessions.Now,if im not obsessed with yoga during my day...will i forget to do my practices?what will happen now?
great to forget when i will do my dm sessions (during daily activities,less obssesion).
I mean,toughts are there for helping us to fix things.But with no toughts...maybe i will stop my practices?
what if my spiritual practices were not real?with if all was created by my mind and i really never wanted to practice yoga?maybe all this practices here were due to ego purposes more than spiritual purposes.
What is the reality of all this atracttive yoga path?
thanks.Just some reflections here.Very
"real" reflections.And yes, better to dissolve them in stillness also...
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Edited by - miguel on Dec 28 2009 3:55:38 PM |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 4:58:47 PM
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Hi miguel
quote:
Originally posted by miguel
I mean,toughts are there for helping us to fix things.But with no toughts...maybe i will stop my practices?
This is just another thought to inquire and let go of. Will you really stop practicing just because those thoughts aren't there? Do you need thoughts to tell you what to do?
I don't think so. When I had thoughts like "I need to meditate", "I need to do yoga", etc., they were coming from a place of attachment. I was obsessed with practices and spiritual progress, enlightenment, etc. After I let go of those thoughts, and even let go of wanting enlightenment, I still kept practicing. Twice a day, I still practice just because I love it.
You can do a lot of things naturally, without thinking about them. Just because that's what you want to do. You are much greater than your mind and thoughts
Feliz Ano Nuevo!
Love
cosmic |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2009 : 7:36:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
The question is: who can i continue doing my practices without this toughts? Im a bit afraid of dissolving this toughts in stillness.I used that toughts for being secure that i would do my dm sessions.Now,if im not obsessed with yoga during my day...will i forget to do my practices?what will happen now?
what will happen now? should you have phrased it "what will happen then?" the reason i say that is your post seems future tense ;) all togethor an interesting subject to be brought up in the non duality forum. who would you be without practices? maybe the same "who" you are with practices. who is afraid to dissolve the thouths into stillness?
dont mean to make fun or mock you, cuase if I did i would also be doing that to myself, i guess
best to you
brother Neil
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 05:58:16 AM
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Hi cosmic,
quote:
This is just another thought to inquire and let go of. Will you really stop practicing just because those thoughts aren't there? Do you need thoughts to tell you what to do?
Maybe im atached to do this cz many times in my life i have wanted to control all my toughts,emotions...too much mental activitie,sometimes overwhelming...
But yes,i always go my job with my clothes,i have never forgot it(for example)!
quote:
don't think so. When I had thoughts like "I need to meditate", "I need to do yoga", etc., they were coming from a place of attachment. I was obsessed with practices and spiritual progress, enlightenment, etc.
happens here.All the time.
quote:
After I let go of those thoughts, and even let go of wanting enlightenment, I still kept practicing. Twice a day, I still practice just because I love it.
So...ill continue my inquiries with that.
quote:
You can do a lot of things naturally, without thinking about them. Just because that's what you want to do.
Yes,but whio wants it,me or the universe/inner self? If i dissolve the "me" in stillness...maybe i become a radical diferent person little by little...after alll this yopga practices happens as a result of this actual "personal maya"...and it doesnt really exist.
quote:
You are much greater than your mind and thoughts
namaste.
Feliz año nuevo!
Thanks so much cosmic.
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Edited by - miguel on Dec 29 2009 06:34:30 AM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 06:16:45 AM
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Hi brother neil,
quote:
what will happen now? should you have phrased it "what will happen then?" the reason i say that is your post seems future tense ;) all togethor an interesting subject to be brought up in the non duality forum.
Yes,interesting."What will happen now"...maybe this is not the best expresion to use in english,or maybe yes...but it indicates i should inquiry more on that,cz itt clearly indicates more toughts over the present moment.More "mental movies", desires (not bad thing),...
"what will happen then?"-i think i would ask this to my self before doing the inquiries about my obsession with yoga practices.I think i said "What will happen now" cz the inquiry on this subject was already done :"what will happen now that my actual/today inquiries about obssesion with yoga are done?".
quote:
who would you be without practices? maybe the same "who" you are with practices.
Yes,true.Im the same "who".But with yoga practices im trying to be aware of that "who".To be one with "that".Yes,im already it,but i life my non duality dream yet.
quote:
dont mean to make fun or mock you, cuase if I did i would also be doing that to myself, i guess
I didnt percieve it from you,but in any case it would be a problem between your ego and my ego i suposse.So,no problem here.
Thanks and namaste.
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 07:29:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Very inspiring post chinna.Thanks so much.It comes in the right moment.
Yes,im very involved in self inquiry lately.Amazing journey of neti neti.
The question that arises this days also is this:
I have been doing yoga "with my mind".I mean,today i was doing self inquiry with this toughts:
"I need to meditate"
"i need to practice yoga"
"I want to get self realitation/higher states of conciousness"
I did my self inquiry method using the four katies questions.
The work is done now.
I realized that mental obects created great stress and anxiety here.All the day thinking about yoga.
The question is: who can i continue doing my practices without this toughts? Im a bit afraid of dissolving this toughts in stillness.I used that toughts for being secure that i would do my dm sessions.Now,if im not obsessed with yoga during my day...will i forget to do my practices?what will happen now?
great to forget when i will do my dm sessions (during daily activities,less obssesion).
I mean,toughts are there for helping us to fix things.But with no toughts...maybe i will stop my practices?
what if my spiritual practices were not real?with if all was created by my mind and i really never wanted to practice yoga?maybe all this practices here were due to ego purposes more than spiritual purposes.
What is the reality of all this atracttive yoga path?
thanks.Just some reflections here.Very
"real" reflections.And yes, better to dissolve them in stillness also...
Dear Miguel
All practices are ego practices, including spiritual practices. The only difference with spiritual practices is that they are designed to burn themselves out and to take the imaginary practicer along with them.
Thoughts will always arise, for practical purposes and in response within relationships. What will disappear is any sense of dilemma or anxiety - "should I be practicing, or should I do this, or should I do that, or who am I, or what am I, or what is all of this about, or how should I live, will I be ok, what will become of me.....?" etc etc etc.
So when we have seen through the practicing ego, for which practice is necessary, its dilemmas vanish and we are not bothered whether we are practicing any more. In the monastic life, the monks who have 'seen' and don't need to practice any more continue to practice because there is nothing else to do, the rhythmn of life is established, and to encourage the younger monks to practice and see for themselves. St Paul advised the same thing when asked whether he still practised the Jewish law once he had faith (non-duality, non-doubting, non-dilemma). He said he did not do so for himself, he did so for the sake of those who did not yet have such complete faith, who had not realised themselves as one with God.
Peace and joy!
chinna |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 08:21:10 AM
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Hi Miguel,
Yogani discussed this issue of abandoning spiritual practices as one of the potential pitfalls of self-inquiry practice in his self-inquiry book:
"As witnessing continues to advance, our body, thoughts and feelings become objects of perception that are separate from our sense of self, our witness. This is an important development. P33
We are then able to engage in a way that is liberating rather than binding, both for ourselves and for others. P34
A certain excitement comes with the realization that we have arrived at the point of being able to choose with certainty that which is real over that which is not.
There can even be an enthusiasm to the exclusion of all else, and we have to guard against throwing out the practices that have brought us to this point. There can be a strong tendency to plant our flag on the notion that we are That, and fixating on the idea that all we have to do from then on is hang onto That. If this happens, it can be slipping into non-relational self-inquiry again. It can happen to advanced practitioners. Much better we should continue with the practices that brought us to this point and strengthen the presence of the witness beyond all tendencies we might have to imagine that we have attained anything." P35
He then goes on to describe the further processes of transformation, which take place beyond this stage.
Christi
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 08:49:28 AM
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Hi chinna,
quote:
Dear Miguel
All practices are ego practices, including spiritual practices. The only difference with spiritual practices is that they are designed to burn themselves out and to take the imaginary practicer along with them.
Thoughts will always arise, for practical purposes and in response within relationships. What will disappear is any sense of dilemma or anxiety - "should I be practicing, or should I do this, or should I do that, or who am I, or what am I, or what is all of this about, or how should I live, will I be ok, what will become of me.....?" etc etc etc.
So when we have seen through the practicing ego, for which practice is necessary, its dilemmas vanish and we are not bothered whether we are practicing any more. In the monastic life, the monks who have 'seen' and don't need to practice any more continue to practice because there is nothing else to do, the rhythmn of life is established, and to encourage the younger monks to practice and see for themselves. St Paul advised the same thing when asked whether he still practised the Jewish law once he had faith (non-duality, non-doubting, non-dilemma). He said he did not do so for himself, he did so for the sake of those who did not yet have such complete faith, who had not realised themselves as one with God.
Peace and joy!
chinna
But this is not ayp point of view for example.I suposse you are saying there is a final point:enlightenment,but yogani says enlightenment is a journey and it never ends.We should continue practice all the time,theres no final point.Im a little confused about it.
Hi christi,
quote:
Much better we should continue with the practices that brought us to this point and strengthen the presence of the witness beyond all tendencies we might have to imagine that we have attained anything." P35
He then goes on to describe the further processes of transformation, which take place beyond this stage.
This have more sense here,cz i follow yoganis point of view on spiritual path.Im reading again this book this days.I havent arrive to that point of development (when you think you have arrived and think you can stop the practices)
both chinna and christi points of view have sense here,but are different points of view.
I cant add more words on this,there is some confusion here...
For the moment i will consider christi/yoganis aproach here,cz i feel its a more safe aproach...never stop spiritual practices.
Thanks so much. |
Edited by - miguel on Dec 29 2009 08:53:28 AM |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 10:42:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Hi chinna,
I suposse you are saying there is a final point:enlightenment,but yogani says enlightenment is a journey and it never ends.We should continue practice all the time,theres no final point.Im a little confused about it.
This have more sense here,cz i follow yoganis point of view on spiritual path.Im reading again this book this days.I havent arrive to that point of development (when you think you have arrived and think you can stop the practices)
both chinna and christi points of view have sense here,but are different points of view.
I cant add more words on this,there is some confusion here...
For the moment i will consider christi/yoganis aproach here,cz i feel its a more safe aproach...never stop spiritual practices.
Thanks so much.
Dear Miguel
I support your conclusion about the need to continue practising.
Whether enlightenment is final or a journey, or both, or neither, is a false dilemma, a symptom of a dividing mind, a divided self.
For the jnana yogi, the question is 'from where is this dilemma experienced, who experiences it?'
Whilst there remains a question about whether to practice, a decision to be made, practice remains. When the question no longer arises, the same actions may or may not continue to arise, depending on the depth of habit and circumstance, but there is no decision to be made.
There is no question of taking up a position in THAT and then stopping practising. Whilst there is any taking up of a position, the dilemma and its practising remain.
chinna |
Edited by - chinna on Dec 29 2009 10:53:20 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 10:56:09 AM
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Hi Miguel,
I don't think you need to be stressing yourself out over practices though. Relax, and do your practices twice a day.
Stressing out in between practices will be detrimental to your state of mind when you actually sit down to do your practices.
Another way of looking at the ego is that it is simply a point of self-reference, a point of self-identity. With spiritual practices the ego expands from an initial contracted state (and mis-identified state), to a much more expansive and all-encompassing state. This is the transition from the self to the Self, or divine consciousness. So the ego never really disappears, or spiritual practices along with it.
In my own experience, spiritual practices expand to include more of our life, and involve much more than what we do during sitting practices.
So as I see it, it isn't that we eventually transcend spiritual practice with the death of the ego. It is rather that as the ego expands to the level of the divine Self, our whole life becomes a continuous spiritual practice (and an incredible adventure ).
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Dec 29 2009 11:00:55 AM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2009 : 7:30:44 PM
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Hi chinna,
Thanks for your answer.I understand what you are talking about.
quote:
Whether enlightenment is final or a journey, or both, or neither, is a false dilemma, a symptom of a dividing mind, a divided self.
Yes,this is very interesting.Ill inquiry about it.thanks.
Christi,
quote:
don't think you need to be stressing yourself out over practices though. Relax, and do your practices twice a day.
Stressing out in between practices will be detrimental to your state of mind when you actually sit down to do your practices.
Yes,im having good progress this days with this issue.Im doing inquiry about it.Today was an interesting day while doing the work.I worked with this deep toughts "toughts dominate me","i should stop thinking" and more interesting deep toughts.Not visible toughts from the surface.I discovered them after some serious inquiry process.
The result:after that,i felt really goog and great joy and freedom.All the days after doing my inquiries i felt like when you have cryed a lot and you feel that great relief inside...ahhh...very deep feeling of freedom.
Im using the work for the moment,but maybe yoganis method is more fast.But at this first seious stage better to take the easy katies aproach.I think yoganis method is easy also "is this tought real?"...but for the moment i have tons of toughts (is it real,have i them?) and katies aproach is more easy to use and i percieve almost instant results.Yoganis method is more abstract/difficult to manage here (no negative meaning with this words,just personal preference for the moment) .Maybe later.
Your explanation about the egos process is really lucid,clear,inspiring for all of us.Thanks so much.
"It is rather that as the ego expands to the level of the divine Self, our whole life becomes a continuous spiritual practice"
Thank you.
Self inquiry is an amazing adventure. |
Edited by - miguel on Dec 29 2009 7:37:12 PM |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2010 : 12:20:36 PM
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Hi Christi
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
With spiritual practices the ego expands from an initial contracted state (and mis-identified state), to a much more expansive and all-encompassing state. This is the transition from the self to the Self, or divine consciousness. So the ego never really disappears, or spiritual practices along with it.
In my own experience, spiritual practices expand to include more of our life, and involve much more than what we do during sitting practices.
So as I see it, it isn't that we eventually transcend spiritual practice with the death of the ego. It is rather that as the ego expands to the level of the divine Self, our whole life becomes a continuous spiritual practice (and an incredible adventure ).
Christi
This is helpful in pinpointing an apparent difference of view:
- practice to expand the ego, encompassing all without preference;
- practice to dissolve the ego, allowing all to be as it IS.
From time immemorial, and in many cultures, these two paths recognised as opposites leading to the same goal. The former named by the Greeks kataphasis, the positive way; the latter named apophasis, the negative way. Both being dynamics which can lead to the same realisation of unity/non-duality. The way of apophasis attracts those with a stronger intellectual tendency; the way of kataphasis those with a stronger heart tendency. Both lead to the unity of heart and mind. Apophasis and kataphasis each have their characteristic practices or yogas.
Self-enquiry in the Hindu tradition can include both the dynamic of kataphasis, and that of apophasis, but is generally an apophatic practice, as is jnana yoga more broadly. The same differences are found in schools of Buddhism, with zen being most aligned with jnana and the way of apophasis.
Both these two fundamental paths, emerging from two fundamental human orientations, lead towards loss of self-consciousness, growth of spontaneity, wholeness, clarity, compassion, joy.
The kataphatic ego points to the divine self and the delights of unity; the apophatic ego to the non-existence of the personal self, and the delights of non-duality.
Two sides of the same coin. It has been my experience that AYP tends to be more comfortable with 'accentuating the positive'; it would be wise not to 'eliminate the negative', as the song goes, if a truly comprehensive yoga practice is the intention. The truth is beyond either path or mode of expression.
Judgement about which point of view is more helpful in any particular case leads to one point of view rightly being accented. In AYP, the positive is often felt to be the most helpful; but exposure to the apophatic perspective can help to clarify that, and to give shape and focus to the kataphatic path; and vice versa.
Miguel rightly identifies how scary the apophatic perspective can seem to the ego. But those who are at a point of feeling truly sick of themselves, having tried everything positive and found it wanting, and are beyond caring what the outcome will be, will run to its embrace, and will find all that they seek.
chinna |
Edited by - chinna on Jan 01 2010 1:11:03 PM |
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swamilite
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2010 : 11:26:09 AM
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Hi Miguel,
The question is: what methods do you use for working with the links that all we have attached in our energetic system? How to clean them up?
The answer is to clean up the the source of all attachments, inner and outer. There are three parts of one divinity (God) hidden inside everybody. These three parts are held in separation and suffering by the three ego veils of darkness. There is the pain veil which imprisons the soul self, the love center, located in the heart. When you are hurting, it is your soul self feeling (perceiving) the dark veil of pain and sorrow. When lost in this veil, the soul feels the agony of separation, and looks for that ever illusive meaning of it all. There is the spirit veil of fear, located in the solar plexus, that cripples the spontaneity of your spirit self, and destroys the divine essence of spirit; trust. And the last center is located in the area of the third eye. This is the God center, the ego veil of darkness controlling this center is anger, the essence to be liberated is truth.
The ego, being alien to this creation, gives those lost in it a feeling of "alienation", some believe they are possessed by an alien. In a sense they are. The alien is very clever at deception, but there is one place it's presence is revealed: in the body. You can "feel" it, except most people are unaware that when they are feeling hurt, they are actually feeling a sensation in the body, around the heart, and it doesn't feel good. Just as when someone is fearful, or anxious, they are actually feeling a very unpleasant sensation in the solar plexus, and it doesn't feel good. And when one is angry, one feels an unpleasant sensation in the forehead, frequently leading to headaches. Out of these sensations arise all the thoughts about why I'm hurting, why I'm fearful, and why I'm angry. Once in your head, you can watch thoughts forever, and they will continue to be generated, because you're not aware of the source (sensation) but rather the distractions (thoughts) they are generating. The sensations are merely the body registering something alien, something toxic in the body.
The soul part of self is attached to the ancient sorrow, pain, from which arises all soul attachments, within and without. The spirit part of self is attached to the fear, from which arises all spirit attachments, within and without. The God part of self is attached to the anger (he is deceived into believing it gives him power, when the exact opposite is true), from which all God attachments within and without arise. (all the destructive ideologies which are ravishing the world are fueled by the anger veil of god).
To return to your question; dissolve the veil of pain, and you will dissolve the soul attachments to love, to pain. Dissolve the veil of fear, and you will dissolve all attachments to security, to fear. Dissolve the veil of anger and dissolve all attachments to ideologies, revenge, jealousies, and conflict. Dissolve the veil of anger and know peace. Know the splendor of the god that you are.
As to addictions, I usually council people to cut themselves some slack, when it comes to striving towards perfection. Smoking soothes the unpleasant sensation in the chest caused by the pain veil, and is one of the preferred addictions of people with a strong soul-center orientation, just as alcohol is the preferred addiction of spirit-centered people, since it flows right to the stomach and dulls the fear sensation. Souls also prefer pot over booze, as it both soothes the sensation produced by the veil, but also facilitates dreaming (the soul is feminine, a dreamer, not a doer). Spirits prefer uppers, speed type drugs, as these seem to enhance activity, a natural function of spirit, when not crippled by the fear. God, being God, can take to any addiction, though that center seems most engaged in blaming the soul part, or the spirit part for their weakness and addictions.
I could go on forever, but I fear I would bore you. If you watch these uncomfortable sensations, neither for nor against, they will dissolve, along with all the confusing and contradictory thoughts they are giving rise to. Simply watch some very uncomfortable physical sensations, and every door will be opened unto you. The ego will die, as you are born. And who knows, an awakened Miguel might just enjoy an occasional smoke, a few tokes with friends, some beers with buddies, and a little nooky with some special friend. Enlightenment is, after all, very ordinary. Extraordinarily ordinary.
Love to you Miguel,
Anurag
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2010 : 03:33:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by swamilite
I could go on forever, but I fear I would bore you.
Anurag
No..please bore me,Anurag...I kinda like it.
But what your explaining has to do with the AYP practices?
This is the issue here.
I recommend you read the ,,main lessons,, from the left side of the screen.
Trust me..I read them and they are good..very good.
Much love to your wisdom muscles,Anurag.
Danny
ps..you can start with the Chin Pump Jalandhara ..marvelous one... http://www.aypsite.org/139.html |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2010 : 10:24:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by swamilite
Smoking soothes the unpleasant sensation in the chest caused by the pain veil, and is one of the preferred addictions of people with a strong soul-center orientation, just as alcohol is the preferred addiction of spirit-centered people, since it flows right to the stomach and dulls the fear sensation. Souls also prefer pot over booze, as it both soothes the sensation produced by the veil, but also facilitates dreaming (the soul is feminine, a dreamer, not a doer). Spirits prefer uppers, speed type drugs, as these seem to enhance activity, a natural function of spirit, when not crippled by the fear. God, being God, can take to any addiction, though that center seems most engaged in blaming the soul part, or the spirit part for their weakness and addictions.
Hi Anurag,
Welcome to the AYP forums.
I have never heard addiction explained this way, but it fits so perfectly. The rest of the post fits very perfectly with all of my experiences too. I have just never heard it explained this way. Thank you so much for sharing this info with us here. Do you have a source from where you got this info?
quote:
Originally posted by swamilite
I could go on forever, but I fear I would bore you.
I would like to hear more on this, so if you could start a new topic in the Other Systems forum or the Yamas & Niyamas forum on "addiction types and locations" it would be much appreciated.
Thanks again for your input. |
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2010 : 02:53:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Thank you so much for sharing this info with us here. Do you have a source from where you got this info?
Hi Shanti..Anurag's version of the soul/spirit/god within is quite unique(in interpretation)..the source is him...Anurag Shantam.
In his site http://www.anuragshantam.com/he explains,,
Anurag Shantam began his inner journey in earnest in 1981 when he traveled to India and became a disciple of the master Osho.
Powerfully drawn to working with the archetypes, or what are known in western psychology as the sub-personalities, he found it to be the perfect structure through which to explore the inner world.
From this emerged his teaching of how to awaken the centers of consciousness, to restore unity, and to uncover the enlightenment already hidden within.
Anurag currently lives and teaches in Saco, Maine.
I am personally fascinated with people adding their own understanding to the chakra system...solar plexus/heart/agnya...because this stuff can never be explained enough.
Much love to him(and to you,Shanti)
Danny:)
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2010 : 07:45:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Smileyogi
[
Hi Shanti..Anurag's version of the soul/spirit/god within is quite unique(in interpretation)..the source is him...Anurag Shantam.
In his site http://www.anuragshantam.com/he explains,,
Anurag Shantam began his inner journey in earnest in 1981 when he traveled to India and became a disciple of the master Osho.
Thanks Danny.
At your suggestion, I checked out his website, but don't see any explanation of what he has written above. In fact it is just a landing home page and I am not sure if there is anything else I am missing other than what is on that page.
Appreciate your reply Danny and much love to you too. |
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swamilite
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2010 : 09:09:06 AM
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Hi Shanti,
Click on "explore the teachings", and then navigate through the rest of the site by clicking on titles and characters. (buttons are hidden, curser will change when over a hot spot).
I didn't intentionally make it difficult, just wanted it to be a little fun.
Love, Anurag. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2010 : 10:16:26 AM
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Thanks Anurag.
Interesting site.
Can I cheat  and ask where I need to go to get the info you have written about above? I see the three gates... but I don't see the addiction and three gates that you talk about above.
Thanks. |
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swamilite
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2010 : 12:49:54 PM
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Forgive me Shanti, you are right, there's nothing about addictions on the site. I try to keep my writings focused on the obstacles to enlightenment, pain, fear, anger. The addictions stuff seemed more of a distraction at the time. I mentioned the information because it seemed to me Miguel might be putting the cart before the horse, i.e., focusing on the perceived impurities, rather than the source of all impurities, the ego veils of darkness.
As far as addictions go, I don't know about the rest of the world, but just about everybody in america is addicted to something or other. Some befool themselves that they are on "medications", when in fact they are trying to deal with the same uncomfortable sensations as those who drink or smoke. In my own experience working with people, I have found that smoking, moderate alcohol consumption, and pot smoking are not impediments to enlightenment. (you are, after all, a living God, albeit sleeping.) Here in america, the energy fields are so toxic, and the enlightened state so delicate, that some continue their addictions even into their enlightenment, simply to dull the sensitivity, and attend to the demands of the world. Enlightened you are one with the world, no separation from the energy around you, and the purity and subtly of the experience can not be supported unless you are removed from population centers (increasingly difficult). I strongly discourage people from taking the pharmacuitical drugs; anti-anxiety, anti-depressants, etc., because those taking them never are able to process and clear the veils.
In a nutshell, when dealing with addictions, one is using substances to directly dull the sensations produced by the veils. There are two feminine veils: the soul veil around the heart, and the mother veil which produces a sensation across the breast area. The masculine veils are in the third eye (the seat of God), and the solar plexus, the seat of spirit. If the substance seems to dull anxiety (alcohol) it is probably a spirit-based addiction, if the addiction soothes or dulls the pain, then it's probably a soul addiction. The inner God is the part that condemns and attempts to control addiction, with little success, because in the divided ego state one part of god is condemning and trying to control another part of God. Since both parts are part of one god, it becomes like a struggle between your right hand and your left hand.
I'm a very practical person, and tend to support a persons awakening, rather than trying to make them perfect in society's eyes. And the bottom line is that what awakens is absolutely unique and perfect, though will never appear so to those with endless lists of perfection.
Perhaps if you had some particular question I could give you a more helpful answer. It has been my experience that as people wake up, they experience changes in diet, lifestyle, concurrent with their increasing awareness. I repeat, you are a living God, and need no-one to dictate how you should be. Awake, you are home, you know who you are, you love and trust yourself, and are no longer divided inside, struggling to impose upon oneself others ideal's about spiritual purity. Awake, there is peace in the is-ness of life with all it's imperfections. You could say one becomes perfectly imperfect.
My love to you dear Shanti, Anurag.
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subtle vampires.
