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emc
2072 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 2:47:23 PM
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So, Yogani and Bernie and others of the same sort have told me that I'm very sensitive and easily pick up things from others - individuals, groups, people, even what's happening globally with humanity. We ARE all One, so that's nothing strange. The tricky deal for me at the moment is that when mindy I of course by default always interpret "my" mood as being only mine and I suffer greatly and can't understand why this depression/anxiety/anger etc is so strangely strong, to the bizarre. Then I realize "oh, no, I might be picking up on the collective happenings here". And then... I don't have enough stillness or inner centering or methods or anything to cope with what's coming in through the system. So it feels like I'm absolutely overwhelmed. As if, when I'm centered I have all the capacity in the world to "hold" collective painbodies (of course, by default, since consciousness "holds" it all, when in those highs, it's absolutely no problem and of course, by default "I" am not doing anything, no effort etc etc etc)- and "I" have on several occasions had enormous "cleaning sessions" in different areas, and when the dips come and I go mindy and the painbodies are still taken in... I just don't know what to do. It becomes too much... I can't "turn it off". And for the personal mind to believe it has to cope with all that is a horrible experience, and it doesn't cope with it at all...
Any suggestions on how to deal with this? I would like to be able to have some boundaries... but how? |
Edited by - emc on Dec 17 2009 2:53:07 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 3:35:30 PM
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quote:
and can't understand why this depression/anxiety/anger etc is so strangely strong, to the bizarre
Hi emc
This is explained in great detail and in down to earth no nonsense language understandable to anyone who goes through what you describe.
It has been the single most helpful book I have read in terms of relating what is going on with awareness.
http://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Way-t...p/1593851286
with love |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 4:07:49 PM
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Thank you Louis! I'll check it out! It might shake something around perhaps and make things move on a bit...
(I don't know if I should laugh or cry, though, cause when scrolling down the link page... I read an ad for "Crystal skull meditations" and got into strong energy reactions... These alien things never end... and I'm not even bothering myself with it, I never think about it, things like these just happen... sorry, it's absolutely off topic, just so ironically symptomatic of my life.) |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 4:12:01 PM
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I hope i am not responsible for your pain. But seriously, you are too sensitive, that seems to be all it is to me. venting emotions is a great release like a cat shaking itself dry. The things you experience can go away if you don't want them to be there. YOu just decide not to give in to the urges.
But seriously again, if i upset you at all any time i apologise for that, and in no way did i ever mean to incite hatred on any person on this forum.
Your mind is obviously in control otherwise you wouldn't be able to type any posts into this forum. So just stop entertaining the automatic urges, and you will get better.
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Metta
Sweden
24 Posts |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 4:49:47 PM
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I know exactly what you mean. This is a precursor to siddhis. Like a lotus growing from the mud. You are in the muck, but it doesn't affect you, because you recognize it, recognize it as not separate from you, your own karmic projection, not something negative to reject, the spontaneous appearance of all goodness becoming. It was all your heart's desire from the beginning.
Adamant |
Edited by - adamantclearlight on Dec 17 2009 4:52:42 PM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 4:51:21 PM
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Hi emc :)
quote:
Originally posted by emc
...
Any suggestions on how to deal with this? I would like to be able to have some boundaries... but how?
Especially for you from the Hawaiin monk:
from this link:http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...s_ch-43.html
QUOTE
Friday
LESSON 299
Heightened Sensitivity
People are worried about the world's coming to an end. Every now and then a religious sect proclaims the new coming of the end of the world. But although the Earth as we know it continues its steady progress around the Sun, the conscious mind for thousands of people has come to an end, for the simple reason that they are no longer interested in it. For them, the world of inner sounds and colors has opened its far more attractive fare. But the job of sustaining and maintaining expanded awareness is not accomplished by losing the controls over one's powers of awareness. The actinic world is only attained and sustained by initiating definite controls over the odic world. One state of consciousness is controlled in the process of awareness moving and expanding into another state.
As we progress along the path, we become more and more and more sensitive. This sensitivity is a wonderful thing. It's like graduating from being an old battery-set radio of the 1920s and '30s to a sophisticated, solid-state television. This sensitivity that you will begin to recognize is so refined and yet so strong. You communicate with yourself through the nerve currents which extend out, around and through the physical body -- physical nerve currents as well as psychic nerve currents. Before we get deeply within on the path, we're not too sensitive. But as this sensitivity develops, we begin to see through our hands. We begin to hear feeling. We begin to see sound, and all sorts of new faculties manifest.
Now, this can be very distressing, because we see things that we ordinarily would not be able to see. We hear meaning in what people say that ordinarily we would be unaware of, and we can become very disappointed in life, in people or in ourselves. This may seem like falling into a bog on the path, and we don't want to do this. We want to be sensitive, and yet we want protection, psychic protection. Our dreams become more well defined, but we don't want to be vulnerable to negative areas of the mind, disruptive areas, experiential areas of the astralplane, while we are sleeping. Neither do we wish to be attacked on the astralplane by the mischievous beings, entities, that are on that particular side of life.
We need this astral protection. We need this psychic protection. The group helps the individual and the individual helps the group. The force field of a group of people on the path goes along at a certain rate of intensity which is not broken, and this gives us tremendous psychic protection. In the very same way, a positive group of people only admit into their midst other positive people. A group of businessmen have a well-managed force field, and generally only a businessman of their same caliber can come and mix with them. A group of artists has a force field, and only artists of the same caliber can get into it. Why? If they let everybody in, they wouldn't have a force field. The business would fail. The art would go into chaos. Friendships would be destroyed because of other influences coming in and amongst the people.
Force fields protect and sustain not only our outer forms of expression, but deep spiritual layers as well. When we go "out" into superconsciousness, if we are sensitive and unable to protect our subconscious mind, all sorts of other types of influences can enter. We don't want this to happen, and it's not necessary. It is a deterrent on the path, for we then are exposed to unseemly astralinfluences that detract us from our quest.
Make friends with those who are on the path. Be with fine, positive people. Don't be with negative, complaining people who have no relationship to what you are doing on the inside, or who are criticizing you for what you are doing. There's the old statement, "One bad apple can turn the whole bushel rotten." Maybe that will be reversed in the New Age; a lot of things are changing in the New Age. Maybe at some time a whole bag of good apples will make a bad apple good, but so far it hasn't occurred. Until such a time, we have to be wary of a natural law of nature and live among others of virtuous character and conduct, others who share spiritual insights and seeking.
Saturday
LESSON 300
Undesirable Influences
Being on the path is a marvelous thing, but it is a path. There are jungles on either side, and if we wander off into the jungle, taking too many liberties, continuity of the vibration of our unfoldment will begin to wane. Suppose you are meditating regularly in the morning and at night, day after day. Perhaps they're not long meditations, but they are regular. You are generating a certain vibration out of it. If you then stop that routine and take your awareness into feeling sorry for yourself or mentally arguing with a friend, you lose the subtle thread of superconsciousness. You're going through an old, old pattern and it will be difficult to get back into the vibration of meditation. Your dreams at night may become nightmares. Your circle of friends may change. This is called, in a sense, spinning out into a different area of the mind. If you have not yet experienced this yet, it's not a recommended experience on the path. And if you have experienced it, you know what I am talking about, and you know the importance of protecting yourself and your meditations. Psychic protection, to sensitive people, is extremely important. It involves every detail of life -- your home, friends, clothes, diet, even your dreams. You should live in places that are clean, very clean. Paint your place. Assure yourself that the inner atmosphere is clean and unpolluted.
We have an outer atmosphere and we have an inner atmosphere. The inner atmosphere can become polluted, too, just like the outer atmosphere can. All sorts of influences from the astral plane can come in on the inner atmosphere, and this we don't want. We want the inner flow of the inner atmosphere, which is within this atmosphere of air and ether, to be absolutely peaceful and sublime. How is this done? By keeping your house, your meditation room, as clean as possible. By entertaining few guests and then only people of the same caliber and nature. Guests, other than close relatives, should not stay more than three nights. Why? Because otherwise they bring too much distraction, too many other influences into the home. Finally, the whole atmosphere may be disrupted. Many families have broken up and lost their home, and children have gone homeless, simply because guests have stayed too long and worked into the inner atmosphere and brought in too many influences of a distracting and disturbing nature. This is an old, old traditional custom of hospitality that dates back many thousands of years, and these old customs are based on sound judgment. If they are understood and followed, they assure and protect our contemplative life.
Keep your environment positive, so that the inner feeling is always content. Keep your home shrine or meditation space radiant, so that the inner feeling there is always uplifting. As you advance along the path, the radio mechanism will become highly tuned, very positive. Being positive, it will register all types of influences. Influences that are distasteful to you will come through as strongly as influences that are really magnificent. You have to learn to shield out the static by finely tuning this mechanism. That is why you strive for mastery of sadhana, mastery of concentration, your ability to hold awareness where you want it, when you want it for as long as you want it, and mastery of your ability to experience kaif, pure awareness aware only of itself, by taking awareness out of the entire context into just being aware. This practice of kaif is one of the fundamental protectors from psychic or astralinvasion, for when you are in that state, great clarity and willpower persist and the lower states are transcended.
To attain and sustain kaif is a simple practice. You pull awareness out of the thought processes. You pull awareness out of the emotion processes. You pull awareness out of the bodily processes, and you're just completely on that pinnacle of being aware of being aware. That's so necessary to practice every day, even if you do it for a split second.
The experience of kaif can be attained by anyone on the face of the Earth, at least for a split second, because it's so easy to be aware of being aware. To hold that experience and to stabilize the physical and emotional elements long enough to hold that intensity for even a minute takes more practice -- not too much, but consistent practice. To maintain kaif for two minutes requires more effort, more will, more dedication to the life of sadhana. Five minutes requires more. That's the test.
QUOTE END
Hope that helps.
Still praying for you.
:)
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 5:04:09 PM
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Thanks gumpi, no worries, mate!
Thanks Metta!
Thank you very much Adam. It was beautifully written.
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Edited by - emc on Dec 17 2009 5:13:29 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 12:29:15 AM
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T_I, now THAT was a very, very helpful link! I read it all! A great thanks to you!!!
quote:
Be with fine, positive people. Don't be with negative, complaining people who have no relationship to what you are doing on the inside, or who are criticizing you for what you are doing.
I realize I have to look for another job. The negative influences from the people at work is enormous. We have a force field among the staff, but for me it's not enough help to hold the pressure from the students.
quote:
Psychic protection, to sensitive people, is extremely important. It involves every detail of life -- your home, friends, clothes, diet, even your dreams. You should live in places that are clean, very clean. Paint your place. Assure yourself that the inner atmosphere is clean and unpolluted.
I don't have very much of any of this, just a constant bad consciousness that I never have time to clean, eat correctly, have nice clothes... I'm obsessed with cleaning and fixing this in my thoughts, and yet I constantly live in a mess.
Oki, so let's make samyama on "job".  |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 1:14:04 PM
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One of my first encounters with a client left me feeling depressed and with low confidence. It was something I had not expected (although I had been warned).
Luckily I only face this in a one to one situation and can only say that I quickly recognised that my own tiny cracks were magnified by developing a strong rapport with a client. It was as if their problems were transferred directly to me to live with. Once the realisation dawned it occurred to me that clients were simply a method of sorting out my own problems........a version of not throwing stones in glass houses etc.
Admitting that these tiny cracks exist in your own psyche and attending to them, really listening, being truthful and letting those feelings surface can be traumatic and scary. Ultimately each time you bow your head and admit the weakness it disappears.
All those who work with you are there to test and train you, sometimes it's good to thank them for their efforts in helping you to be free from the shackles of your own false ego. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 18 2009 : 2:01:23 PM
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Karl, your post becomes very interesting when I look at who my "clients" are and what they distribute to me as a mirror of my own false ego. I meet around 80 of them each day, luckily only having a one-to-one talk with 4-5 each day during lunch and breaks (= we don't actually have breaks, we work 8 hrs in a row), and the rest of the time in groups:
murder
rape
criminality of all sorts
war - e.g. the whole Iraqi collective pain body, but mostly all wars in the world are represented
torture
suicide
illness of ALL sorts, physical and mental
addiction
drug abuse
alcoholism
actually: all types of abuse (child abuse and neglect, women battering, assault, physical, sexual, psychological... you name it)
mobbing
dysfunctional families
ADHD with all it's correlating factors (criminality etc etc)
When in balance I can have experiences as described in this topic http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....PIC_ID=5757. I AM all of that in the list above.  
Definitely a mirror of what false ego's are up to in this dream.
In mindy periods I am feeling depressed trying to hold all that energetic pressure somewhat stable in the system... and I jokingly sometimes say I must have been Hitler, cause now it's all coming back at me to hold, and see, and integrate and love...
Durga is my middle name.
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standingstone
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2010 : 10:31:33 PM
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one thing to consider with strong empathic reactions is resonance. Just like how striking an "A" note on the piano will vibrate or resonate with the "A" string on an acoustic guitar in the same room, so it is that emotions of others cause "sympathetic resonance" with emotions in your past. If you feel other's pain as your own in any debilitating way, it's IMHO because there's something there that also belongs to your person, otherwise you would be aware of the emotional frequency in your body but not be so identified with it.
If you see clients it helps to work on your "stuff" as best as you can, other wise even though you ideally wish to communicate that an emotional release is OK, there's a tendency to convey behind your words or in your behavior, a meta-message that having a full catharsis or release of emotion is not OK because it makes you uncomfortable, and on some level they can tell. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 03:35:06 AM
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standingstone, just wanted to point out that I'm not working with clients as in counceling or treatment. There's no openness around the above issues, except perhaps in those face-to-face talks that happens.
I don't try to heal them in any way. Like Byron Katie I'm of the opinion that everyone is entitled to their own pain in order to wake up. It really feels like it's just... that I have a consciosness that is a bit wider than I can handle at the moment, and that there are forces going through here that the system is not ready for. At least not when I am mindy and unbalanced myself.
Have you gone in to a collective pain body sometime, standingstone, cleansing it with awareness? Just wondering if we're talking about the same thing here? |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 08:57:28 AM
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| Hi emc, do you know if there is some belief hiding in your mind that might be causing this manifestation? Maybe if you can find it then you can let it go with the "work"..? |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 09:42:01 AM
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| The fears and anxieties and such are the final, frantic focus of ego identification in consciousness as the false, individual self is up against the wall so to speak. See that all the drama is one and the same phantom self and relax into your true, fathomless self nature. Giving less power to the scene is empowering and will help dissipate the ghost appearance of ego identification. |
Edited by - Balance on Jan 05 2010 09:46:12 AM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 11:01:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Balance
The fears and anxieties and such are the final, frantic focus of ego identification in consciousness as the false, individual self is up against the wall so to speak. See that all the drama is one and the same phantom self and relax into your true, fathomless self nature. Giving less power to the scene is empowering and will help dissipate the ghost appearance of ego identification.
I'll add that I see the world situation as an exact reflection of this ego shattering event happening within ourselves. |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 11:12:11 AM
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| Yes I agree balance, all this world change, the drama, I believe is leading us forward, let it be. |
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standingstone
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 11:02:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Have you gone in to a collective pain body sometime, standingstone, cleansing it with awareness? Just wondering if we're talking about the same thing here?
Hi emc, I don't know that I ever have on a collective level, though I believe that doing the work within oneself helps the collective in the sense that we are connected with everyone else. I was referring to picking up on the energies, but particularly the emotions of others, though It could just as easily be thoughts or sensations.
I can't really relate to the term "pain body". Seems like a disempowering thing to believe in, as if a part of our anatomy exists only to provide us with discomfort. Is that a term used in any of the spiritual traditions or is it just a conceptual device invented by Tolle? I think what people refer to as their pain-body is simply how the past, as they perceived or misperceived it, affects their present and causes sensations and feelings in their body, but not as a separate appendage of suffering.
*edit* I see on wikipedia he defines it as "an accumulation of old emotional pain". I guess that fits.
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Edited by - standingstone on Jan 05 2010 11:11:33 PM |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2010 : 07:47:25 AM
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Hey emc.. I wanna say thanks for being here. Good job doing the things you do, while holding all that comes with the path.
Really good job
Cheers |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 03:00:22 AM
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quote:
Yonatan: Hi emc, do you know if there is some belief hiding in your mind that might be causing this manifestation? Maybe if you can find it then you can let it go with the "work"..?
Probably. I honestly don't know what it would be, though. I choose to simply interpret it as overload in combination with not enough stillness. It's AYP's version. I buy that.
Thanks for your cheers. I'm just happy noone else but me has to do my job.
Balance, thanks for your words.
quote:
standingstone: Hi emc, I don't know that I ever have on a collective level, though I believe that doing the work within oneself helps the collective in the sense that we are connected with everyone else. I was referring to picking up on the energies, but particularly the emotions of others, though It could just as easily be thoughts or sensations.
Yes, when we work with ourselves we do it for the collective, I see it the same way. I am working with myself also. But sometimes it feels like it's the other way around. Can't explain it. Just know it in the moment when it happens. And I trust the guidance around it that I've gotten from people like Yogani and Bernie. I'm not only sensing another individuals personal pain/emotions around an issue. On the contrary, often I'm quite insensitive and don't pick up things that others pick up with normal human empathic skills... I'm pretty "cold" in that way. I sort of get the eagle perspective and see - often in pictures - the whole situation, the war area or all raped women or the like, all the people involved, holding, holding, holding it all like a mother, seeing it all, letting all the pain go through me, expressing it even - often in slow motion (slow motion crying... slow motion screaming in silence, very strange), and there's absolutely no suffering on my behalf when it happens. Absolutely neutral, yet all the forces of it is going through. But, as I mentioned. When I'm mindy and unbalanced and unaware and the eagle gravitates down to this body/mind again... it's a helluva thing for the body/mind to process...
It's actually as simple as dropping judgments about it all together and let it flow through as it is - or going back to believing all those things listed above is somehow wrong and shouldn't exist, because then it's an ugly and bad world we live in, and I have never liked that side of life.
Hm. This was actually quite interesting to see - that was an underlying assumption that is very good to apply The Work on. Thanks for spurring me to write.
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Edited by - emc on Jan 09 2010 05:31:55 AM |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2010 : 3:48:12 PM
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emc,
much better to let things flow. the life forces in the body work harmoniously when the mind is not involved with stresses and so on. So if you feel bad mentally, just try to flow and relax and not worry about those kinds of stresses any more. Just saying, that if you attach your mind to the body stress it might not help much. Laughing is pretty good, i mean so long as you don't give yourself a headache from laughing too much! lol
Most warmest thoughts are with you at these times. I hope things get better for you soon. You are like a staple of AYP forumites, so we all expect you to be back on track in the near future and enjoying life like you have always been before.
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wav3
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2010 : 3:59:54 PM
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EMC,
I have been, and often go, through what it is that you report (although probably to a lesser degree than you). It's not easy to sit in that stuff when you're wide-open to it, and meeting it head-on causes me actual physical torment. This of course mitigates self-looking (my daily meditation of choice).
I also work with a similar population (teach adolescents with behavioral issues). I'm with the same group for the entire school day. Not only must I keep them from attacking each other, I am also expected to keep them actively engaged in learning and at the end of the year, the state expects them to be on the same academic level as students who learn easily, study nightly, and behave appropriately.
This is my first experience in the AYP environment, so I am not familiar with characteristics of your job nor of the precise demographic of your clientele. I'm guessing that the population you serve generally exhibits more more extreme behaviors than the kids with whom I work. Nonetheless, I can resonate to some small degree with the difficulty of your work.
All to say that I have stumbled upon a technique for processing overwhelming emotional pain that is coupled with physical symptoms. I hesitate to mention it because (a) it is merely an adjunct to the enlightenment process itself, (b) I've only found it mentioned explicitly by a few authors (William James and Gurdjieff), and (c) most people think I'm sick when I mention it (and although they are certainly correct in that assumption, I try to avoid broadcasting how sick I am whenever possible).
That said, here goes: When similarly vexed, I find something that I'm ashamed of and dwell in the feeling that it evokes. Even if I am clearly in the right and another is clearly in the wrong, I find some aspect of the interaction for which I can assume ethical responsibility. If I have done absolutely nothing wrong (an all too rare occurrence), I resort to dredging up some unseemly memory of some regrettable thing that I've done, and I dwell on the negative aspects of what I did. For whatever reason, it feels better to sit in that type of mess than the mess that you describe.
Upon doing this, I am immediately elevated to the eagle's perspective (I like your description of this phenomenon) and my heart opens (no small feat for a raisin-hearted individual such as myself). I then view myself and the energy/person/ghoul that bothers me as merely two (or more) players in some sort of ultimately benign game.
Again, I realize that this is only one method of integrating overwhelming energetic overload. I find it valuable only because it allows me to practice self-awareness. Granted, this wallowing in shame and guilt is a dualistic endeavor  ! (even though it does elicit some sort of emotional unity).
Just a thought. As always, I welcome comment |
Edited by - wav3 on Jun 12 2010 5:32:42 PM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2010 : 2:43:00 PM
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| Dude, that is a sick way of handling things way3, your sick man. Just kidding, hey if it works for you brother go on then. |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2010 : 3:10:59 PM
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Hi emc,
IMO, self-pacing makes sense even w.r.t. a bearable dosage of the Pain of the World one brings home and falls asleep with.
It's a tightrope walk. If you're too good a role model, there will be too many people, in need, to drain your energy. But knocking out the helper is not the purpose of helping, is it? Remember Anna-Stina's silver 'cowl' technique:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3913#33874 |
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Boundaries vs Oneness
