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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 16 2009 : 11:55:50 PM
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Samadhi is from Patanjali with influence of buddhism.
Without buddhism, no Patanjali, no samadhi.
So forget about samadhi, and just go to the source....buddhism.
So now lets look at emptiness in buddhism.
Emptiness is just the discrepancy between every thoughtform and how reality is.
Thats it. Really.
Hope this clears up a bunch of stuff thats been on the boards. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Dec 16 2009 11:58:09 PM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 07:49:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
I'm going to break down samadhi and emptiness
still breaking down?
the source is not buddhism or patanjali... its human... YOU! |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 07:58:47 AM
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I think thoughtforms are what cause the discrepancy between what we perceive and what is really there. That is because the thought is an inaccurate and simplified abstraction.
Then thoughts are manipulation of these inaccurate abstractions in which we believe we are "figuring out reality", or planning for the future.
So the discrepancy between thoughts and reality is something that falls away as we meditate and become aware in a thoughtless state, which is emptiness |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 10:12:27 AM
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This is not accurate. To attain enlightenment, one must directly experience thoughts and perceptions as emptiness. If you are discriminating, "these here are thoughts; these are not emptiness; but this here, this is emptiness, now I'm in samadhi," then you are just confused.
What gives siddhas the abilities they have literally to move mountains and fly in the sky is directly experiencing everything as nondual with emptiness, the nonarising mind.
Now different traditions of Buddhism introduce emptiness in different ways (whether thoughts and perceptions are introduced as emptiness), but they all end up in the same place: "Emptiness" instantly dissolves thoughts and perceptions.
If you want the definition of emptiness from the pith instructions it is this: no attachment, no focus.
Adamant |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 11:00:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I think thoughtforms are what cause the discrepancy between what we perceive and what is really there. That is because the thought is an inaccurate and simplified abstraction.
Then thoughts are manipulation of these inaccurate abstractions in which we believe we are "figuring out reality", or planning for the future.
This is correct. You are a natural Madhyamaka expert. So the next step is simply to distinguish between rigpa and sems as according to Longchenpa. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Dec 17 2009 11:10:04 AM |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 2:59:45 PM
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Madhyamaka is just a philosophy which will not get you one inch closer to realization. Except for "thoughtforms" are never asserted or discussed.
quote:
"In brief, within the ultimate womb of basic space, spacious and spontaneously present, whatever arises as the dynamic energy of its display--as samsara or nirvana--in the very moment of simply arising has never known existence as samsara or nirvana. Whatever arises in a dream due to the dynamic energy of sleep does not actually exist. There is only self-knowing awareness, the blissful place of rest, spontaneous equalness.
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Given that awakened mind is neither apparent nor not apparent, the outer and inner worlds of samsara and nirvana do not exist as phenomena yet arise nonetheless as a myriad display--the universe of appearances and possibilities, whether of samsara or nirvana--because they are, by nature, the stirring of mind's dynamic energy."
Longchenpa, The Basic Space of Phenomena
THEREFORE, You recognize all the displays of appearances and possibilities, INCLUDING THOUGHTS, as the energy and nature of the self-knowing awareness. You do not reject thoughts or accept "emptiness."
The methods of differentiating samsara and nirvana, identifying thoughts or shouting "PHAT!" to recognize rigpa is just an introduction. It is not the meditation or the definitive experience of emptiness which includes all phenomena.
Adamant |
Edited by - adamantclearlight on Dec 17 2009 5:00:21 PM |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 3:03:53 PM
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| P.S. To understand Buddhism it is more important to understand "Same Taste" of all outer and inner phenomena. |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2009 : 4:32:28 PM
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From Longchenpa's Treasury of Pith Instructions:
quote:
DIRECT INTRODUCTION
Six points summarize the process of direct introduction: The true ground of all experience is nondual and free of bias. The confused perception of that ground is the nature of samsara. Confused perception and fixation on that confusion are magical expressions of your own mind. Reversing that confusion lies in refining your experience of the dynamic energy of awareness, which has no fixed basis. Ordinary appearances and mind resolve naturally, free within timeless awareness, and so you take a firm stance in the primordial state of naturally pristine timeless awareness. These six points are extremely important general themes in the teachings; the mere realization of their meaning naturally brings fulfillment.
DIRECT INTRODUCTION TO THE THREE KAYAS
The distinct features of a crystal sphere, a mirror, and rays of sunlight represent the three aspects of innately limpid essence, nature and expression. Dharmakaya is by nature a state of complete purity, comparable to the inherent purity of a crystal sphere. Sambhogakaya's mode of presence is by nature a state of utter lucidity, comparable to a reflection in a polished mirror. Nirmanakaya's manifest mode is an embodiment that entails no division of outer and inner, like rays of the sun or moon shining in the ten directions. In that the kayas are timelessly and spontaneously present within you, do not seek them elsewhere, but understand that they are natural attributes.
CONCEPTS AS ALLIES
There are six ways to embrace concepts as allies: Maintain an ongoing awareness of conceptual consciousness as if it were a gentle breeze, dying down in and of itself; you will experience naturally occurring timeless awareness arising from within. Train in experiencing the stirring of the mind as if it were lighting in the sky, pure in and of itself; you will experience anything that stirs in the mind arising as naturally lucid timeless awareness. Maintain an ongoing awareness of consciousness as if it were a ripple on water, diminishing in and of itself; you will experience all consciousness arising as the naturally occurring and majestic state of enlightened intent. Maintain an ongoing awareneess of any concepts as allies, arising as expressions of the true nature of reality; you will experience enlightened intent arising from deep within, involving no acceptance or rejection. Maintain an ongoing awarness of your fixated perceptions as allies, resolving naturally with no object remaining; you will experience timeless awareness arising within you, without fixed basis, and will perceive things as evanescent. Maintain an ongoing awareness of the natural radiance of awareness, lucid and pure, as an ally--the lucid expanse of being; you will experience timeless awareness arising from deep within, vivid yet leaving no trace. You who practice thus, immersing yourselves in genuine being, will experience timeless awareness arising from thoughts themselves. It is absolutely essential that you experience all things manifesting as your allies, just as stacks of dry wood fuel a great fire."
These are THE pith instructions. The stuff about separating thoughts and nature of mind is just a beginner exercise and is nowhere found in these pith instructions, nor in the instructions of the Nyingthig nor Yeshe Lama.
Move BEYOND ACCEPTANCE AND REJECTION. The instructions above are the essence of all dharma instructions. This is it.
Adamant |
Edited by - adamantclearlight on Dec 17 2009 5:01:16 PM |
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omarkaya
Spain
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2010 : 7:58:26 PM
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| Namaste,Alwayson,i think ,you have uncorrect knowledge,when you affirm that samadhi is from patanjali and patanjali was influenced from buddhism and that without buddhism no patanjali so without buddhism no shamadi,ABSOLUTELY WRONG,buddha took instructions in the practice of meditation in his earlier days from two yogis Alara Kalama and Uddaka.These two yogis were renowned at that time and practised both jnana and raja yoga.Buddha was a great reformer and although he formulated his own systems of meditation,evidence indicates that he remained somewhat under the influence of the yogic tradition system DATED OF THOUSAND YEARS BEFORE BUDDHA WAS BORN,certainly we know that yoga was well stablished IN INDIA before buddha shakyamunis era(fifth century CE)to sum up the yoga tradition is ancient and theres good evidence that yoga was practised even before the first milennium BC. finaly to affirm,that samadhi is emptiness, thats not right,samadhi is emptiness and everythingness,is absolute unconscious consciousness , is pure awereness ,it only is,the only real true existence,the eternal self. |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2010 : 4:34:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by omarkaya
samadhi is emptiness and everythingness,is absolute unconscious consciousness , is pure awereness ,it only is,the only real true existence,the eternal self.
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2010 : 4:46:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
Samadhi is from Patanjali with influence of buddhism.
Without buddhism, no Patanjali, no samadhi.
So forget about samadhi, and just go to the source....buddhism.
So now lets look at emptiness in buddhism.
Emptiness is just the discrepancy between every thoughtform and how reality is.
You are surely teasing?
Samadhis ARE. Buddhism and Patanjali noticed. As have countless others who have encountered neither Buddha nor Patanjali.
Deluded thoughtforms are a (futile) attempt to avoid the emptiness of what IS.
chinna
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2010 : 8:23:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
Samadhi is from Patanjali with influence of buddhism.
Without buddhism, no Patanjali, no samadhi.
This may or may not be true.
Samadhi by different terms has been known and experienced as a condition of consciousness since before Buddhism ... and probably since before recorded history.
The level of the direct influence of Buddhism on Patanjali probably can't be known, per the time periods involved (the Buddha is said to have lived roughly 500-600 BCE, Patanjali roughly 200 BCE ... and during those times, oral tradition was the norm, as opposed to written records, with dates).
quote:
So forget about samadhi, and just go to the source....buddhism.
What would be the benefit of this approach?
quote:
Emptiness is just the discrepancy between every thoughtform and how reality is.
What discrepancy is that?
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on Jan 07 2010 8:26:35 PM |
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I'm going to break down samadhi and emptiness
