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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 5:54:43 PM
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| I have seen pictures of tibetan yogis "locking" their arms while in the lotus posture. the position is full lotus with the palms turned up in the lap fingers facing inward and slightly curled up, wrists resting on the root of the thighs and arms completely straight or hyperextended elbows with the shoulders raised up. I have been playing with this position and find that it really opens the breath in the upper chest and the ribs sort of "hang" from the raised shoulders. I was never taught this position but it seems to be a deliberate variation in tibetan yoga. does anybody know about this and when and how it is used and if it has a name? |
Edited by - Victor on Nov 08 2009 4:41:02 PM |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 8:20:38 PM
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| You figured it out. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 11:05:18 PM
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| Cool. Is it used for pranayama, extended meditation sessions or just as a stretch? |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2009 : 6:37:49 PM
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| Hey Victor. I'll scan something from a book called Yantra Yoga by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu and post it here. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2009 : 7:37:49 PM
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| Thanks, love to check it out |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2009 : 11:30:44 PM
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| both |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 5:40:26 PM
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Experimented with this in pranayama practice today and aside from a bit of arm fatigue and feeling of general heat it felt like it really opened the channels of the breath. Definitely a step worth exploring.
Konchok,I assume that your extremely brief replies are an attempt on your part not to guide in public a teaching that is traditionally kept for initiates. Nonetheless it has been helpful in simply confirming what my exploration is showing me and in the spirit of the open quality of AYP I am sharing with the board. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2009 : 7:13:15 PM
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| That arm position really intrigues me. Anyone else got any info on it? |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2009 : 10:38:41 PM
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| No one with anything more to say on this? After experimenting with the arms this way especially in pranayama it feels better not to hyperextend or lock the elbows but to just have a gentle but steady presure to straighten the arms but not excessively so. This allows the prana to flow much better. It really seems to be useful yet no one seems to either know much about this or be willing to share |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2009 : 11:00:57 PM
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| The wrist flexion causes a kind of hibernation effect, where the heart energy stays within. Some people do it during sleep at times. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2009 : 12:29:07 AM
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| Thanks Scott, I definitely do it in sleep so is interesting to practice it this way |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2009 : 4:00:12 PM
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I asked a tibetan friend who used to be a monk about this and his answer was vague and not very responsive. From my own practice lately this arm position seems to work very well in pranayama but not with arms locked or hyperextended. What feels right at this point is to apply pressure to straighten the arms at the end of inhalation and keep that pressure of arms straight but not locked throughout kumbhaka, then releasing the arms during exhalation allowing the the elbows to bend. This seems to be my own variation but it seems to be working well and is consistent with the movements of the energy of the breath.
It does not however feel soft or effortless enough to sit with arms this way for meditation, it very much seems to be a pranayama technique |
Edited by - Victor on Nov 20 2009 4:06:33 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2009 : 7:08:23 PM
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| OK, this is very similar to an asana called Mahamudra where you are in janushirshasana and you hold the foot of teh straight leg and do pranayama kumbhaka. In Mahamudra there is a gentle pull to open the ribs while in the sitting position that I have described the arms push up but the basic result is the same. The upper side ribs open more allowing the breath to expand more and the spine lengthen. Guess I am the only one interested here but it is a fascinating exploration so might as well share... |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 6:54:37 PM
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ALright, I found out that this is referred to as "vajra fists" where the thumb is gently tucked under the fingers and the hands rest palm up close in to the body by the groins. I also have found that you gently press the arms towards straight but do not lock or hyperextend the elbows. When I practice pranayama in this manner I find that it opens the ribcage in the upper chest ( an area that I have had difficulty with in the past)and the breath penetrates quite a bit deeper on inhalation and slightly deeper on exhalation as well, so it feels like the correct place for the hand,s particualry while doing the dynamic jalandhara as the position of the shoulders gives a gentle protective support for the neck as the head rotates. There is another version where the thumbs are similarly tucked but the palms face downward in teh same area. This seems to open the belly breath much more.
Overall the exploration of this has been very positive although there seems to be very little interest on it here. |
Edited by - Victor on Feb 19 2010 03:25:21 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 07:42:42 AM
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Hi Victor
I missed this thread untill now, will give it a try.
Have been trying something different with the arms of late and that is to place the arms behind with wrists overlapped and resting on the lower back. I do this sometimes during spinal breathing and for me it has a beneficial opening of the chest and heart. Also practice it during walking meditation.
This has also helped memnbers of our AYP group in Dublin.
Would be interested in your feedback on this if you are interested.
Louis |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2010 : 03:38:09 AM
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| hmm, thats different. Sometimes I would let my arms hang by my sides and let them fall wherever they will. I have noticed that kechari really kicks in the effect of these movements in me. Without kechari not a whole lot happens but when i place my tongue in kechari the throat opens and the each mudra channels the prana in a different way and things really open up. |
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progressivethinker
India
6 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2010 : 11:58:12 AM
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| A picture would have helped me understand this posture better. But if it is a posture that holds the spine erect, it is great for pranayama and meditation. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2010 : 1:22:40 PM
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yes, it holds the spine erect. the position is sitting upright in lotus posture. The unique difference is that the hands are palms up pressing into the groin area where the thighs meet the pelvis and arms are pressed towards straight. Also a variation is with palms pressed down. Otherwise it is classic sitting in full lotus.
In my practice today it feels that the palms pressed down feels more appropriate with the head head back and the palms up with the head forward in a static position. While doing chin pump however I experimented with a fluid pressing of the hands with the head rotation. I found that with the palms face down in the groins that putting gentle pressure on the side that the head was rotated really opened up the flow of prana |
Edited by - Victor on Feb 20 2010 4:39:34 PM |
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locked arms in lotus posture in tibetan yoga?
