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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 3:04:06 PM
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Namaste Friends....
This morning in meditation I had an experience I would like to share. The resonating effects are still with me now
In the mornings I usually only have time to sit for 40 minutes, so I usually do 2 minutes of Bastrika Pranayam, 8 minutes of Spinal Breathing Pranayam, 2 sets of Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka which usually takes about a minute and a half, and then I do 18 and a half minutes of Deep Meditation and take a ten minute rest after. This was my routine this morning exactly.
About 8 minutes into DM today my dog (who was sleeping on the couch beside me as I meditated) made some sort of sound (I still don't know what it was, probably just licking her lips or something) that brought me out of a "state" I had been in for around 7 or so minutes..... I remember finishing up my Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka and starting in on the mantra, and I remember repeating it maybe 3 or 4 times (fairly slowly with a decent amount of space between repetitions) and then I "woke up" to the most insane noise I have ever heard....it sounded so alien..... This sound brought me "back to awareness" or whatever, but it took me probably 30 seconds to remember that I was a human, that I was meditating and that the sound that "woke me up" was likely my dog beside me on the couch. I looked at the clock and I was between 8 and 9 minutes into my meditation. Where did "I" (my consciousness/awareness) go for 7 or so minutes? I don't remember anything. I wasn't sleeping I don't think, but I certainly wasn't aware! Is this "emptiness"? Can emptiness only be experienced "after the fact"?
I know this sounds pretty similar to Lesson 17: http://www.aypsite.org/17.html but this experience seems slightly different to me. Perhaps it only seems different to me because I experienced it instead of read about it ....
Any thoughts?
Love,
Carson |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 3:52:13 PM
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quote:
and then I "woke up" to the most insane noise I have ever heard....it sounded so alien.....
ha ha,that made me laugh,i can imagine the situation...haha 
Congratulations for your new experiences and progress,it sounds wonderful. It was like a samadhi state or something like that...you went too far this time bro'.good thing.
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Edited by - miguel on Sep 11 2009 3:54:01 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 4:16:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I looked at the clock and I was between 8 and 9 minutes into my meditation. Where did "I" (my consciousness/awareness) go for 7 or so minutes? I don't remember anything. I wasn't sleeping I don't think, but I certainly wasn't aware! Is this "emptiness"? Can emptiness only be experienced "after the fact"?
I know this sounds pretty similar to Lesson 17: http://www.aypsite.org/17.html but this experience seems slightly different to me. Perhaps it only seems different to me because I experienced it instead of read about it....
I think this is what they call the turiya state. Yogani explains it well here:
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
As the lesson Christi linked points out, turiya is not an ultimate state of consciousness, or an advanced condition we aspire to. It is only inner silence, which everyone touches every time they lose the mantra in deep meditation. It is the ever-present reservoir of stillness within us. As we advance in our practices, it becomes a normal part everyday living. But it is there from the very beginning also. Anyone who has experienced inner silence, a sense of witnessing events from within, knows turiya. Everyone has, yes?
Turiya means, "the fourth state" of consciousness, pointing to an ordinariness, and it is naturally experienced in life along with the other three states: waking, dreaming sleep and deep sleep.
With deep meditation and related practices, we gradually cultivate our nervous system to experience turiya simultaneously with the other three state on an ongoing basis. It is abiding inner silence. So, turiya is not a destination. It is our inner well-spring of peace, energy and creativity that is always available. It is our Self.
A good way to regard turiya is as "living stillness," not as a distant condition of enlightenment. It is only a mantra away, and soon abiding as the witness in all that we do.
The guru is in you.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 4:30:52 PM
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Thk you for sharing Carson, it's beautiful.
AYP works!
Oh and plz say hello to your doggy for me . |
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vijikr
United Arab Emirates
413 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 4:43:17 PM
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Wow beautiful experience Carzon!!
Guess animals could pickup or feel them. I noticed recently the kids below 10yrs irrespective of their nationality they wanted to come to me.Like while I was shopping maybe 4yr old girl an arab gal whom I have never seen or known she was just happy to see me and she was wavying and wouldn't go and her dad pulled her and she was looking back and smiling.Maybe this kundalini stuff attracts kids and animals.becaz thats not just a single incident many kids where smiling at me or just they wanted to come and shakehand with me.First I thought may be I resembled someone the kid knows but multiple incident made me think otherwise.
Sorry for the loooooong story.So I guess your Dog just knew or could pcik your kundalini...something like that.
Love and Light
Viji
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 5:00:40 PM
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Thanks everyone for the Love and comments!
@Miguel: Typical for me......"going too far"
@Shanti: I don't know much about "states" of mind, let alone the names for them, so thank you for sharing.
@Ananda: I will give my puppies a pet for you when I get home from work in an hour or so....I'm sure they will say "Hello Ananda" right back atcha
@Viji: Funny....I wasn't thinking about my dog picking up on anything really, but that's an interesting thought. I know my dogs love to meditate with me, this is quite obvious...if I meditate somewhere where they can't be close to me, then they start whining until I let them in, or until my wife does....whoever breaks first This happens everytime without fail.
About the children...I have the exact same thing going on over here. Just the other day my wife and I went out for Mexican food because it was gorgeous outside for September in Canada and this restaurant has an outdoor patio. Well, while eating dinner there in the sun, my wife said to me: "Look" and pointed to the window of the interior of the restaurant....there, sitting in a booth by herself just staring out the window at me, was a little girl maybe 4 or 5 years old. As soon as I noticed her she grinned really big and ran away to a different table with her parents. She came back to stare through the window at me probably 15 more times while we were eating, each time running away when I looked at her. And my wife was raised in a Mormon household so she has 5 siblings and only her/us and one brother do not have children. The rest each have 4 a piece. So that is a LOT of nieces and nephews, all of which are under the age of 10. Everytime I am around them I am the centre of attention/play for all of them. It would be exhausting if it weren't so invigorating ....Perhaps it is just because I love kids and because I have none of my own, but perhaps it is a "special connection" to the still more or less "pure consciousness" existing within these innocent, unconditionally loving children. I find animals to be the same way. There is something about the love of an "innocent" being....it is truly unconditional, and that is something very special. Thank you for sharing.
Love,
Carson
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Edited by - CarsonZi on Sep 11 2009 5:05:57 PM |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 7:29:12 PM
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| That's not emptiness. Emptiness is wakeful without the "I." In emptiness, when you hear a sound, you don't have the experience of waking up. You have the experience of an echo with no location. Emptiness is awakened. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Sep 11 2009 7:41:41 PM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:26:55 AM
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Thanks for bringing this up Carson.
Can anyone relate typical timescales relating to the sleepiness/drowsiness phases/cycles of DM?
Or is this a permanent feature?
It's like thesse days( such as today's last session) the moment i start DM after sbP ,halfay through saying the mantra for the second time i feel a drowsiness immediately take over and subsume me.And then it seems like it persists afterwards.And i may feel like an extended nap. I have read of the explanations buried in the archives- purification, fatigue etc but no real suggestion of typical timescale.
Shanti- you've documented and related your experiences- you say these phases pass- how long do they typically last( sorry if that is a difficult question)?
For others that may be experiencing similar, here is a relevant thread i have been reading-
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3308#28318
there are a lot of interesting threads relating to this subject if you peruse the archives.
(it's the extended nap afterwards- this is the thing that can affect daily life- during meditation not so important- it is only 20 mins after all). |
Edited by - Akasha on Sep 12 2009 12:55:17 AM |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 01:36:14 AM
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Here's another somewhat related thread,although slightly off-topic here as it discusses Oshos' writings, & a view expressed on the subject of mantra meditaiton( a deviation from ayp " gospel", if you like....i.e yogani. i can undersatnd the need to avoid courting confusion for those say juuust starting out with ayp, which can be a vicariously manic kind of rollercoaster-ride, especially if you've also come to ayp with a few ( upset K) issues for e.g ), but interesting nonethless.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....r,meditation
I think what Christiane was saying that she did'nt want to be doing the DM for eons of time if there was not significant result becuase of it( which is quite understandable & realistic).I was vaguely aware that in Osho's Book of Secrets he lists many techniques to suit the many varied practitioners and individuals/personalities out there. It is good and refreshing to question technique/method although i am also familiar with the advice often given to find a technique( particularly with meditation...or subtle forms of it, like DM i suppose) and stick with it, usually for life ,that is.
i think i'm familiar with the lessons enough, the jist of AYP, to hear the other side, perhaps contrary view-points.( although i do trust Yogani, and respect the powerf and efficacy of ayp)
he,osho, says something like saying the mantra and listening to it can keep us alert so we don't drift into a sleep-induced state. But the rationale presented for the dm approach is presented as a technique to transcend the mind,and it's agenda.
See you's folks later, as it is getting late here.
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Edited by - Akasha on Sep 12 2009 05:28:04 AM |
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manig
India
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 02:22:59 AM
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One day Socrates was lost. For forty-eight hours he was not found. He was sought all over, the whole Athens went in search of Socrates, but he was not to be found anywhere.
Then he was found outside the city, miles away, standing under a tree. Half of his body was just under snow. Snow was falling, and he was just frozen, standing there with open eyes. But he was not looking at anyone.
When the crowd gathered around, they looked into his eyes and they thought that he was dead. His eyes were just like stones -- looking, but not looking at anyone; just static, unmoving. They felt his heart: It was beating slowly; he was alive. They had to give him shocks, only then did he come back to look at them. Immediately he asked, "What is the time now?" He had missed forty-eight hours completely, they never existed for him. He was not in this world of time and space.
So they asked, "What were you doing? We thought you were dead already... forty-eight hours!" He said, "I was staring at the stars, and just suddenly it happened that the stars disappeared. And then, I don't know... then the whole world disappeared. But I remained in such a cool, calm, blissful state that if it is death it is worth thousands of lives. If it is death, then I would like to enter it again and again."
It may have happened without his knowledge, because Socrates was not a yogi, not a tantric. He was not in any way concerned consciously with any spiritual practice. But he was a great thinker, and it may have happened as an accident that he was staring at the stars in the night, and suddenly his look returned back, inwards. You can do it. And stars are really good objects. Lie down on the ground, look at the black sky, and then fix yourself on one star.
Concentrate on it, stare at it. Narrow down your consciousness to one star; forget other stars. By and by, concentrate, narrow down your gaze. Other stars will be there just on the fringe, on the boundary. But by and by they will disappear, and only one star will remain.
Then go on staring, go on staring. A moment will come when that star will disappear. And when that star disappears, you will appear to yourself.
The Book of Secrets - Osho <http://rapidshare.com/files/8233179...rets.pdf> |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 09:30:49 AM
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Those time stamps at the bottom of my posts(certainly many of them) are not accurate btw.
I spend 20 mins writing the above, and 5-10 mins editing it.Though it has a time stamp of 3-4 hours later.
It's not a big deal though I notice no-one else has this.Mmmmmm......
Shanti? - what is this all about?- I'm airing it here though i guess i could have PM'ed you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:00:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Akasha
Those time stamps at the bottom of my posts(certainly many of them) are not accurate btw.
I spend 20 mins writing the above, and 5-10 mins editing it.Though it has a time stamp of 3-4 hours later.
It's not a big deal though I notice no-one else has this.Mmmmmm......
Shanti? - what is this all about?- I'm airing it here though i guess i could have PM'ed you.
Sorry Akasha, I have no idea.
You are saying you posted the post at 1.36 and edited it about 30 min later, but the edited by time is like 5.38 (about 4 hrs later) right?
Do you know if it was approved right away?
I can ask Rui (our technical expert) to look into it, if it is a quick thing. He may have an answer for you. |
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ruirib
316 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:23:47 PM
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Hi,
Can't give a definitive answer, but I would advance that it is due to your post not having been approved immediately. I think the posting time of a moderated post will be the time the post was approved (it seems it would be the only way to ensure no users would miss the post if they use the active topics page). If so, then the 4 hour lag would result from the time it took for your post to be approved. I see no other reason.
Also, be aware that post time is the forum time (eastern US time), not yours. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:33:14 PM
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That's the answer, Rui.
He lives in the UK.
server time is different than UK time. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 2:57:30 PM
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Hi Shanti,ruirib & Etherfish,
Oh well.... it must be the time it's mmoderated.
Thank you.
Love Akasha |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 4:38:33 PM
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quote:
Shanti- you've documented and related your experiences- you say these phases pass- how long do they typically last( sorry if that is a difficult question)?
You could take a stab at my first question, Shanti. How long do these drowsiness phases typically last for? You say you've been through several over the last 4 years..Or is this a permanent feature of DM? Sorry if i'm thread-jacking here, but seeing as we're on topic
Love
Akasha
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 5:01:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Akasha
he,osho, says something like saying the mantra and listening to it can keep us alert so we don't drift into a sleep-induced state. But the rationale presented for the dm approach is presented as a technique to transcend the mind,and it's agenda.
And these are different ... how, exactly??
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2009 : 12:14:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
quote:
Originally posted by Akasha
he,osho, says something like saying the mantra and listening to it can keep us alert so we don't drift into a sleep-induced state. But the rationale presented for the dm approach is presented as a technique to transcend the mind,and it's agenda.
And these are different ... how, exactly??
Hello Kirtanman
I'll try to elaborate....
When we decide to listen to the mantra,then we are relinquishing perpetual control of the process(i.e meditation) to the Mind, it's own agenda,it's constant proliferation of thoughts, so the Mind is not transcended, as it is free to do it's thing- that means divide,strucuture & organise our experience. We observe the thoughst bubbling up,monitor our experience,watch, rather than attempt to silence the mental eddies and thought streams through the vehicle of the mantra, viv-a-vis , by plunging into the thoughtless state of PBC.
What always has been fudging these kinds of analyses of "experiential phenomena"( that seems like a loose enough bracket), for me, is definitions of Mind and Consciousness.
This is my understanding(albeit unlearned as i have studied some western philopshy ,years ago now, but not eastern) Mind is subsumed by Conciousness. It is a part of it but it is not PBC- Pure bliss Consciousness. From AYP perspective mind is thought and PBC is free from thought, our natural state, thought-waves being modifications of the mind.
PBC transcends the Mind, is free of Mind.
This now i feel is a a debatable area for me, and it is an interesting conceptual teaser..As i say,You could make the point that there might be nothing to distinguish between the two,saying and thinking,the mantra that is, on an experiential level..As it is a valid point . Are they saying the mantra or thinking it or arguably they are doing both, both being indistinguishable. For the purposes of discussing mantra procedure/technique, listening and saying are different . But experientially they could be the same.
We could transcend the mind and it's activites by listening to the mantra but it might seem by gently favouring saying it( that is you could also be conceivably listening to it in the background which creates another division in the mind,separation, not dhyana) we avoid lettting or allowing Mind have it's way.
I'd really need to read Osho's book myself and try other technqiues described there or elsewhere to justly comment. So even if i knew all the conceptual philosophy to discuss i'd still need to qualifiy it with experience.
Perhaps you can clarify some of this, particularly definitons of Mind and Consciousness and how they relate.I've never been big on jnana yoga although i do get those very satisfying nisrgardatta ahaaaaa moments when the rational mind has something to feel satiated with and it is not chasing it's tail with fruitless loop-the-loop enquiries.
In my remark I was referring to the difference between techniques. One is Oshos' suggestion(i.e to guard against sleep by also listening to the mantra), and the other is Yogani's formulation( simply just say the mantra). The effects being the same, more inner silence. ONly then does all this jnana yoga really make sense, as it were.
What does it mean to transcend the Mind-?- in ayp terms it is to reach PBC, a place where inner silence is resident.It almost seems like it is a place of nothingness or "emptiness" as Carson or Lahiri mahasaya put it.("emptiness and euphoria"/inner silence and ecstasy)) beyond space & time , an invisible no-place,awareness ,consciousness beyond Mind, thoughts, constrictions,divisions and endless labelling.
How would Osho have explained it- well i have'nt read enough of his books which i guess i'll get round to at some point, as well as 'I Am That'. I used to believe he was a quack- like willaim blake he's just misunderstood.
You will have got by now that i was referring to practical differences in technique, not theoretical. Any superifical differences boil down mainly to a matter of interpretation,what we mean when we talk about these experiences.
So the osho technque might transcend Mind but just listening to the mantra may be less effective than saying or a combination as osho suggested..In some ways just listening pre-suposses some mantra vibrational tuning has already been undertaken, if that makes any sense. That the mantra will mysteriously emanates ,of it's won free will ,from the Source or well of inner silence.
---------------------------
Yogani said himself in that V. informative thread I reference above that Osho was not big on mantra meditation- it was not his forte( 'focus of his teachings'), he was a “liqourice allsorts” teacher- these are all my words btw. I find that at once surpising ( though I trust Yogani's knowledge) that he was not up on mantra meditaion given his supposed classic 'Book of Secrets' which i've never read btw( i'll get it off ********** :@))but covers the full gamut(or a lot perhaps), spectrum of meditation techniques( 104 or so, for every type of individual) I am surpised that he is not up on it but I can also understand why he might have not liked or favoured such a practice either. I remember the 3 months rule/suggestion too- or was it 40 days- perhaps that was it. And those videos on U-tube paint this charismatic figure that literally looks like an alien from another planet( another side-effect of enlightenement perhaps :@)) he would say-' try it ,see what happens,what resonates with you' or something like that. Like a cross between a sheik and the ambassador of neptune.
I like Osho's message, soul & style,his heart; he sounds a liberated individual free of neurosis or societal ,repressive atiitudes, not anally-retentive, if I can use that word here, or prudish...He is his own master-he does not follow the herd. In short, one of the cool folk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeEDKBxkNgM
Hope this makes sense..
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2009 : 12:07:21 PM
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| The topic is experiencing emptiness... |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 12:16:57 PM
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Found out today that it is not just my own dogs that enjoy meditation with me....I am taking care of a friends dog this week so that she can act in a movie, and during this mornings meditation all three of the dogs in my house decided they needed to be with me during this time. When I sit to practice I have one dog on each side (one of which usually decides at some point that my thigh is her pillow) and now my friends dog who decided today to lay at my feet and rest her head on my shins. They were all completely quiet and still for the whole 40 minutes. This is not only a miracle, but it is completely unheard of in my house. My dogs are "territorial" to say the least. When my friend brought her dog over last night there was a monstrous scrap and her dog ended up with a nice cut on her snout. (My friends dog is also a little aggressive and this is why I am watching her since no one else feels comfortable doing it). So anyways, this is the first time that we (my wife and I) have had another dog in the house, so needless to say, last night was very action packed. But this morning, at least for the time while I was meditating, all three dogs were quiet, laying (basically) next to each other and were in perfect Silent harmony. So my conclusion is that yes, indeed animals are sensitive to a silent meditative consciousness.
Sorry this is off-topic, but I started the thread so I am really only threadjacking myself
Love,
Carson |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 2:16:53 PM
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| What's awesome is practice in the woods or in a park and all the little critters flutter and scurry near by, like an audience. It's the love. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 2:20:01 PM
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I find that I attract more insects then anything when I practice outside these days
Love,
Carson |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 3:37:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Akasha
quote:
Shanti- you've documented and related your experiences- you say these phases pass- how long do they typically last( sorry if that is a difficult question)?
You could take a stab at my first question, Shanti. How long do these drowsiness phases typically last for? You say you've been through several over the last 4 years..Or is this a permanent feature of DM? Sorry if i'm thread-jacking here, but seeing as we're on topic
Love
Akasha
Hi Akasha,
Sorry for the delay in replying.
Each person is different and what my experience is is not necessarily a map for anyone else's experience.
But for me the longest one I think was about a 2-3 weeks. Else on an average they generally last about 1-4 days for me.
Before it was an experience of really falling asleep... losing consciousness. Now I am completely awake inside. I am aware of myself. But lose track of time. When I come out of these deep meditations, it takes me some time to feel my body back and realize where I am. Also, I experienced my daughter calling me, but it sounded like it was from far away, another room, it was like I was deep inside a cave and my daughter was calling from outside the cave.. when in reality she was right next to me. It took maybe a fraction of a second to come out of meditation, but felt like I traveled through many layers.. and I shouted "yesssss".. and she was "whoa.. mom .. its OK I am right here". |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 3:50:59 PM
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Hi Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Before it was an experience of really falling asleep... losing consciousness. Now I am completely awake inside. I am aware of myself. But lose track of time.
Is there still a mantra during these "time loss" times?
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
When I come out of these deep meditations, it takes me some time to feel my body back and realize where I am.
Yeah that was exactly my experience as well. And the body felt very "foreign" for a while too.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Also, I experienced my daughter calling me, but it sounded like it was from far away, another room, it was like I was deep inside a cave and my daughter was calling from outside the cave.. when in reality she was right next to me. It took maybe a fraction of a second to come out of meditation, but felt like I traveled through many layers.. and I shouted "yesssss".. and she was "whoa.. mom .. its OK I am right here".
Hahaha....super funny. Sounds totally similar to what I was experiencing as well. I have no idea what my dog did (to make whatever sound it was) but I bet if someone had been speaking to me it would have been just as you explain. Thanks for sharing!
Love,
Carson |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 3:54:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Before it was an experience of really falling asleep... losing consciousness. Now I am completely awake inside. I am aware of myself. But lose track of time.
Is there still a mantra during these "time loss" times?
As far as I can tell.. yes. But I am not 100% sure. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2009 : 4:06:51 PM
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Ah....that explains everything
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Experiencing Emptiness?
