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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 3:10:17 PM
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Namaste g......
quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
This is a brilliant topic, Carson...
Wish I could take credit for that, but I can't. This topic was suggested to me .
quote:
I would like to think that the majority of situations I see as maya and as an opportunity to grow due to this. Reestablishing myself every moment of everyday in that which is True.
quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
I find myself agreeing more and more with this, and with what Katrine said. Being monogamous, being a father etc etc does bring me daily - hourly - minute by minute - face to face with both the rough and the smooth. It's all just grist to the yogic mill, surely? The really s**t times are exactly as 'interesting' in terms of the yogic experience, in terms of consciousness, as the great times.
Actually just the other day I ASKED for more trauma in my life so that I could use that to fuel spiritual growth. I have experienced some trauma in my life, but there are some things I have yet to experience that are commonplace to many (like the death of a close friend or family member....all 4 of my grandparents are still alive etc....I am NOT wishing for the death of anyone!). I am finding my life just a little bit to perfect these days....and that can make it hard to stay motivated IME. For the majority of my life I CHOSE not to allow myself to feel happiness as I felt that made me complacent. Now that I have changed this and I allow myself to enjoy life I am finding that it is rare when I have situations that push me to investigation/inquiry. I need more in fact. I know I should be careful what I wish for as I will likely get it, but in this case I would like some *personal* difficulties so that I can use them as "grist for the yogic mill".
Love,
Carson |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 3:59:43 PM
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quote:
Meaning, if a relationship has met it's "goal" of each person giving and receiving all they can from the other, is it inappropriate to move on to a new relationship that can offer further growth?
That is for me a monogamic flow. In many western societies that's what we do... move from one flower to the next when we are bored or "finished" somehow with the first.  |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 4:05:56 PM
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So is that inappropriate (for you)?
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jun 24 2009 4:07:10 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 4:31:28 PM
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| Hey, Carson... I thought we talked about polygamy as an alternative... that would mean to have several intimate relationships at the same time equally interesting and fulfilling. If we want to change partners when we are tired of the first and go look for another one we are still monogamous... If we want to go polygamous because we are "finished" with the current partner... we could just as well break up, no? Why go polygamous instead of staying serial monogamous? |
Edited by - emc on Jun 24 2009 4:33:54 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 4:35:57 PM
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Hi emc....I wasn't suggesting polygamy as a viable alternative..sorry if I am being confusing. I guess my aversion to the whole idea of being "finished" with a marriage is due to the vow of "Till death do we part"....Even if all lessons seem learned and there is a opportunity that resonates to move on to, there is still the issue of "breaking vows" that I have internal discomfort with. It's a concept thing I know.....drop it in silence.
Love,
Carson |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 4:48:42 PM
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| When a relationship no longer serves the awakening of consciousness, the intelligent life will break it apart. We don't have to make any decisions about it. Isn't that relaxing? Drop it... and let the intelligence take over. It's never wrong. |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 4:48:45 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by CarsonZi
Doesn't Real Love exist regardless of concept or circumstance? Isn't Real Love the foundation of All? Can we really put restrictions on Love?
Certainly not! freedom and love is what we truly are. THey go hand in hand. What is Love without Freedom? It's not love anymore. And if we extrapolate and see all as One, like you said, then, even the distinction between "Love", "Freedom" and other "values" just fades away.. they are all the fruits of language/mind/rationalization. When silence and communion are there, all the concepts and labellings simply drop.
There shouldn't be suffering....but what if there IS regardless of whether or not it "should" be there. Does that not change the situation a little?
If there IS suffering, then it's good to understand WHY there is suffering. WHY our beloved feels pain..and here, it's part of his/her inner work. We can only be present and give love to support the other in this personal inquiry.
More "shoulds". But what if reality doesn't abide by how you think it "should" be? What if your partner isn't able to love you regardless? Or if your partner feels unloved because of this?
Sorry for the "shoulds".. (I should let go of the shoulds and shouldn't )
If my partner isn't able to love me regardless, if (s)he feels unloved, then, I would say it's maybe because somewhere, (s)he isn't happy by him/herself and not loving enough towards him/herself..
And if both partners feel that, according to circumstances, their love for eachother goes on and off, then, it's probably because there's no real unconditional Love from the beginning..there's something else but not real Love.
How we express that Love to others and to our partners is what makes the difference I think.
The expressions are different yes.. as long as the partners are unique individual, there is a unique merging with every being.
But Love is Love.. it has no size or limit.
We each must find out own Truths...it sounds as though you have found this Truth for yourself.
I totally agree.. there's no absolute rule. Each one is unique. Otherwise life would be such a boring journey if there is only one truth for all
There is an old addage that goes something like: "If you love it, let it go. If it was meant to be it will find it's way back to you."
I wanted to tell you that, but couldn't find the english version
Yeah I see what you are saying and this is where my difficulty lies. If I meet someone who I have an instant sexual/non-sexual connection with, it is hard not to extrapolate and picture the potential future possibilities despite being in a committed marriage. And this could lead (in my experience) to blockages that need to be purified. So I guess if you have no desire for deeper human connection then you already have, then this will not be an issue. BUT if one has a desire for a deeper human connection then what one has with their current partner, this desire could lead to difficulties both energetically and emotionally.
It's definitely not an easy situation! but why do we inquire about things that are not part of our current situation?
At the end, all that will come to us in the future is meant to be..
How we will deal with it? We will see when it comes..
All my concern here was about your expanding Love and spiritual growth.. to me, this is the priority.. it's not selfish..
it's healthy for you and your beloved one..
(my little thoughts and feelings... nothing more nothing less)
Love.. |
Edited by - christiane on Jun 24 2009 4:52:24 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 4:54:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
When a relationship no longer serves the awakening of consciousness, the intelligent life will break it apart. We don't have to make any decisions about it. Isn't that relaxing? Drop it... and let the intelligence take over. It's never wrong.
Amen. Thank you.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 5:08:36 PM
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Hi Christiane
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
If there IS suffering, then it's good to understand WHY there is suffering. WHY our beloved feels pain..and here, it's part of his/her inner work. We can only be present and give love to support the other in this personal inquiry.
If my beloved is suffering because I am leaving her for another, then, I am the cause of the suffering. This can't be appropriate can it? (playing Devil's advocate again a little here) They don't have to choose to allow this suffering, I understand this, but it all depends on the degree of "awakeness" in this person. It can't be good for our own karma to cause another emotional pain to further our own spiritual evolution can it?
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
Sorry for the "shoulds".. (I should let go of the shoulds and shouldn't )
Hahahahaha. You "should" stop making me laugh so hard! Hahaha
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
If my partner isn't able to love me regardless, if (s)he feels unloved, then, I would say it's maybe because somewhere, (s)he isn't happy by him/herself and not loving enough towards him/herself..
And if both partners feel that, according to circumstances, their love for eachother goes on and off, then, it's probably because there's no real unconditional Love from the beginning..there's something else but not real Love.
"If my partner isn't able to love me regardless....." regardless of whether or not you abide by your wedding vows???? Is this not at least slightly reasonable of them?
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
The expressions are different yes.. as long as the partners are unique individual, there is a unique merging with every being.
But Love is Love.. it has no size or limit.
Very true.
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
It's definitely not an easy situation! but why do we inquire about things that are not part of our current situation?
At the end, all that will come to us in the future is meant to be..
How we will deal with it? We will see when it comes..
Indeed....in fact, I had a little revelation today in which I truly realized just how much everything happens for a reason....and not just that every thing happens for a reason but that everything has happened for a reason as well. I had a moment of clarity today in which I realized exactly how every moment of my life has been necessary for me to be where I am today. Absolutely nothing was coincidence or left to chance.....my opportunities, failures, trials and tribulations, absolutely everything that has happened in my life has happened for a reason. And I can see that reason....the reason is right here, right now.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom.....
Love Always,
Carson |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 5:26:40 PM
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Hi emc! we crossposted with 3 seconds of delay!!
Hey Carson! Look what miracles we ladies are accomplishing for you!!!
If this is not real loving polygamy!!! 
My last words for today (although I'm already starting my tomorrow: it's 12:25 am )
So... my last words for todaymorrow are:
LOVE, EVOLVE, drop all the VOWS and HOWs!! |
Edited by - christiane on Jun 24 2009 5:29:40 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 5:32:04 PM
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Hi Carson
quote:
BUT, in this particular scenario, I wasn't meaning to talk about "going looking" for something. More trying to discuss what is appropriate should a situation like this arise of itself.
Yes.
Well.........I may be wrong here Carson......but if you want to "prepare" yourself in case this happens....then really...it has already happened, hasn't it.....as an idea. Manifestation started with a thought.
All I can say is......if you are truly coming from the place inside where truth resides...you will know what to do and what not to do when the time comes. So favor this place...the rest will follow. The uncomfortable feelings for you around the theme of monogamy/limited spiritual growth...... ...they are like you say a token of something...not clear. Inquire here (not with many questions.....just look at it...find out what the fear is...and what the desire is)
You know....because of really strong Bhakti....whenever something like this happened in my marriage....the most painful times where the ones where i bought the thought that said that I was "spiritually progressing less" because I was in this marriage. It was not at all true...for all the reasons mentioned above. I was spiritually progressing at the maximum (being unable to leave was a blessing...not an accomplishment on my part)....exactly because I was in this marriage. Just as I am now progressing because I am where I am. And all of it is due to grace.
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Katrine
And somehow...over the years.....the discovery of all the ways this limitation expressed itself ...and then acting on the revealed understanding.....this slowly (since I am so stubborn) but surely led to greater freedom. It also eventually led to the end of the marriage. But by then, for completely different reasons than being locked in monogamy.
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Carson wrote:
Can you explain a little about how "this limitation expressed itself" please?
Yes.....in short:
In many ways....I accused him of "not being here" ...when we were together. Completely overlooking.... that for years... I was not here either. I was hanging out in a different mental place than his, that was all. Mine may have been more educated...more "spiritual" or whatever...it was still a mental world.
For years....I failed to make enough money so that his economic burden was lifted....I stayed home with the children for 8 years (and also took care of three other children for three years...to finance studies in homeopathy)I then got to work with people...doing what I loved most....but at a great finacial cost. And his need for financial security was much greater than mine.....so this pained him.
I knew...when entering the marriage...that it was not only out of devotion to him. There was something missing from the start....something with the resonance......and I knew it, yet married anyway. It ment stability, security and the possibility of starting a family.....it gave purpose to life. And I gave him what he wanted......it was like a silent bargain. However...I was in love with him....all through the marriage. Even when angry with him. Which is quite amazing concidering. I never stopped loving him.....it grew into something deep and peaceful. But there was always grief because of the breach of communion. He was closed, and I did not challenge enough....there were years of trying.....but i grew so weary....and eventually gave up. Because of fear...I shrank away from the pain of rejection. I was not explicit and clear with him from the beginning. I did not speak up because of fear of losing him. I lost the inner spark instead.....but this loss......the pain of that....and the fracture that happened when cancer hit....turned the tides and brought me home to myself.
And then there are the thousand ways I acted egoically....lulling myself with stories to the contrary. He was a perfect mirror. Anything I ever blamed him for...were my own projections.
And there is lots more....but that's enough for now
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 5:47:20 PM
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| Oh Katrine, that was a very deep post for me...if you can, please continue... |
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 02:10:25 AM
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Thank you Katrine.. I can relate to many things you said and this adds to my faith in the inner Guru and the transformation that is happening to me those last weeks..
I totally confirm it when you say that "it has already happened, hasn't it.....as an idea. Manifestation started with a thought."
Also, thank you for reminding me (and us) that, regardless of the external context, our spiritual progress is an inherent process that "knows" very well how to make "good use" of any external context we are in.. and this realization brings a big relief..and from the relief, comes relaxation and openeness to welcome any difficulty as an opportunity to grow.
And oooh yes, I recognize my own patterns when it comes to "accuse the other of not "being here"" when I feel I'm in deep communion with him.. but with time, I realized that, whenever I accused him, it was in fact because "the thing" I was asking for wasn't present in me anyway.. If I was "truly HERE", I wouldn't have needed to ask for anything... it's already here, no matter if the other responds to it or not. (but the ego likes to suffer and play victim!)
Also, there is this increasing feeling that, no matter the excuses or mental justifications we give to ourselves (like "I don't want to behave in a way that could make the other suffer..." or "this relationship or context is a barrier to my spiritual progess"),
Life will always find a way, sooner or later, to kick our a** for us to move forward AND INward...
And this could happen through a disease, an accident... It seems more and more obvious to me that the more we postpone and hide our head in the sand like the ostrich, the more "sudden" and abrupt the "Hey! wake up!" comes from Life..
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 02:50:42 AM
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Carson wrote quote:
If my beloved is suffering because I am leaving her for another, then, I am the cause of the suffering. This can't be appropriate can it?
It is insane to believe we cause other people's suffering. Look at this example:
A)
- I am leaving you.
- Oh, but that is wrong. I still love you.
- I am sorry I don't love you enough to want to be with you anylonger.
- Oh, I'm devastated. This is so terrible. Now I'm so afraid what will happen with me in my life and I'll miss you so much I'll die...
B)
- I am leaving you.
- Oh, that was a surprise! I still love you.
- I am sorry I don't love you enough to want to be with you anylonger.
- Oh, I'm excited! This gives so many new opportunities. Now I'm so eager to find out what will happen with me in my life and even if I'll miss you I'll probably get a long really well.
In which of the two examples above did person A cause either suffering or joy for person B? Truth is: None! Whether suffering or joy occured it was totally and absolutely up to the person being left. His or her thoughts, assumptions and expectations about the situation decided whether it was a suffering or joy happening. Would you take cred for causing other people's joy as well???
Don Miguel Ruiz has some good suggestions:
- Never assume anything!
- Never take anything personally!
It's all projections anyway. Mind creates reality. We experience what we set up for ourselves. Always. 100%. Suffering is all about INTERPRETATIONS of a situation, coming from the mind. And we have absolutely NO possibility to know how another person will interpret a situation. Even if a person have interpreted it into suffering a thousand times... how do we know the insight won't drop down this time and the reaction will be the opposite? Impossible to know what another person is thinking (until we reach that siddhi ) That type of "magical thinking" causes a lot of our OWN suffering. "If I do this, they will think that"... how do we know? We don't. And even if the person causes suffering for him/herself. How do we know that's not just exactly what s/he needs right now???? Well, we can know it's just right! Why? Because life is always correct. 100%. What Is is what is, and it's always True. As you just discovered yourself in your revelation. Everything has to happen exactly the way it does. Trust life.
So we better drop it, do our best in every situation and follow our hearts whispers. Life is lived so eloquently for us. Enjoy the show! |
Edited by - emc on Jun 25 2009 03:24:56 AM |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 08:08:07 AM
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| Carson also mentioned a more genuine concern - breaking vow. That is messier than a little problem arising from mere fabrication of mind. I wish people lived common-law relationships instead of making unnecessary vows created by some old men for the benefit of the society. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 11:23:19 AM
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Good day Sister Katrine....
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Well.........I may be wrong here Carson......but if you want to "prepare" yourself in case this happens....then really...it has already happened, hasn't it.....as an idea. Manifestation started with a thought.
What hasn't already happened? What isn't happening right now? All has already happened, all is already happening. All is now. I am prepared for anything and everything.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
All I can say is......if you are truly coming from the place inside where truth resides...you will know what to do and what not to do when the time comes.
Yes of course. The confusion I have felt over this is quickly dissipating.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
So favor this place...the rest will follow.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
The uncomfortable feelings for you around the theme of monogamy/limited spiritual growth...... ...they are like you say a token of something...not clear. Inquire here (not with many questions.....just look at it...find out what the fear is...and what the desire is)
I think the fear stems from not wanting to hurt anyone by putting myself before them. I fear being spiritually selfish I think.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
You know....because of really strong Bhakti....whenever something like this happened in my marriage....the most painful times where the ones where i bought the thought that said that I was "spiritually progressing less" because I was in this marriage. It was not at all true...for all the reasons mentioned above. I was spiritually progressing at the maximum (being unable to leave was a blessing...not an accomplishment on my part)....exactly because I was in this marriage. Just as I am now progressing because I am where I am. And all of it is due to grace.
Words from the wise.....You are where you need to be in order to learn what you need to learn. Of course.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I knew...when entering the marriage...that it was not only out of devotion to him. There was something missing from the start....something with the resonance......and I knew it, yet married anyway. It ment stability, security and the possibility of starting a family.....it gave purpose to life. And I gave him what he wanted......it was like a silent bargain.
It's funny how we do this to ourselves knowingly eh? And then how Life uses this so-called "mistake", or maybe a better phrase would be "lack of foresight", to our extreme benefit. Take nothing for granted.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
He was a perfect mirror. Anything I ever blamed him for...were my own projections.
We are One after all....everything we see is just a projection of ourselves.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And there is lots more....but that's enough for now
Thank you for sharing and being so open my sister (you started this emc....you are gonna get fed up quickly with all the "sista's" I'm gonna throw around now http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=5843#52862), you are a wise friend indeed.
Love,
Carson
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 11:33:03 AM
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Hi emc...
There is a big difference I think between causing someone pain and causing someone to suffer. I know I can't cause anyone to suffer; "Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional"....but I CAN still cause someone the initial pain that they can then choose to identify with which causes them suffering. I wasn't meaning that I could cause suffering, just that I could cause the circumstance in which another could choose to suffer due to the pain I have caused them. There are many things we can do that may cause another hurt/pain. It is their choice to indentify with that pain or not, but it is not necessarily their choice to feel that initial pain. The causing of pain is what I would like to try to avoid. Make sense? Is this unreasonable?
Love,
Carson
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dberetta
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 12:00:10 PM
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| Namaste all, I want to bow deeply to all posting, you've all made me feel like I am Home (on all (one )level(s). Om, Shanti |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 12:05:56 PM
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Welcome to the AYP forums dberetta....
You are home.
Love,
Carson |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 12:07:17 PM
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It doesn't make sense at all, sorry, Carson. From my perspective you confuse pain with suffering and hurt in this matter - if we still are talking about breaking a marital vow and breaking up a marriage and leave a relationship. How can you be so sure that will induce emotional or psychic pain or suffering or hurt at all (I assume we are not talking physical pain here)? It might instead be a huge relief, lifting a great burden of stuckness and no pain at all but inducing a great sense of freedom. That's my point - emotional or psychic pain comes from our thoughts, nowhere else, no matter what others do to us. It's rather independent of identification. Even if I identify with my thoughts, I won't suffer if I have a positive thought, no? That's what Byron Katie makes a thing of - only do The Work to investigate your negative thoughts. The positive ones doesn't harm, do they? Eventually detachment will occur also with positive thoughts, but in the beginning, why not start with those that cause confusion, emotional stress and mental pain?
If you have your mind set that leaving a marriage always contains pain on some level for any of the partners... I think you might have to ask:
- Is that true?
- Can I really know that's true?
PS. And even with physical pain, you can never be sure that you succeed with your aim of inducing it on another! What if you happen to grab a person really hard when you're angry... and that person smiles and says "Aaahhh, one more time, please, nobody have touched me like that in a long time. You see, I'm having ADHD and enjoy hard touch. Soft touching hurts me!"  Or it's a masochist who thinks you're doing him/her a service... There are so many options, and so many mistakes we can make when we assume we know what inflicts pain on others! |
Edited by - emc on Jun 25 2009 12:17:23 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 12:22:15 PM
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Hi Sister emc....
quote:
Originally posted by emc
It doesn't make sense at all, sorry, Carson.
Don't be sorry. Nothing to be sorry for.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
From my perspective you confuse pain with suffering and hurt in this matter - if we still are talking about breaking a marital vow and breaking up a marriage and leave a relationship.
We are still talking about breaking up a marriage yes....but I don't think I have pain and suffering mixed up. Pain is something that is not a choice (IME). Noone chooses to feel pain...it just happens. Identifying with that pain is when suffering enters the game. I don't really see any difference between physical/emotional/spiritual pain.....it is all pain. How we react to that pain is what matters. I cannot choose anothers reaction for them. BUT, I can choose to stay away from inflicting pain on others as much as possible from my current level of awareness. I choose not to inflict physical pain on another just as I choose not to inflict emotional pain on another as much as I can with my level of awareness.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
How can you be so sure that will induce emotional or psychic pain or suffering or hurt at all (I assume we are not talking physical pain here)?
All I can know is how I would feel in this situation myself. And I know that it would be emotionally painful for me because I HAVE been in this situation before from the opposite side. Do unto others.... right?
quote:
Originally posted by emc
It might instead be a huge relief, lifting a great burden of stuckness and no pain at all but inducing a great sense of freedom.
It might be, but you can't know that either. It might be the most painful experience of one's life. I personally would rather stay away from situations that MAY cause someone pain, rather then choosing not to worry about hurting others by taking the perspective that only they themselves can actually hurt themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
That's my point - emotional or psychic pain comes from our thoughts, nowhere else, no matter what others do to us.
Depending on your level of awareness I would agree. For those who are "sleeping" still, I would say that this is not true from their "reality". At least this was how it was for me before I started to wake up. I think it is inappropriate to assume that everyone will react the way we would in any given circumstance, or that the way we would react is the "right" or "appropriate" way and theirs is "wrong" or "inappropriate".
quote:
Originally posted by emc
If you have your mind set that leaving a marriage always contains pain on some level for any of the partners... I think you might have to ask:
- Is that true?
- Can I really know that's true?
I know it was true for me. It really WAS true for me. The ending of my 8 year relationship was THE most painful experience of my life. I grew from this yes, but I would not wish that pain on anyone ever. I would prefer NOT to be a source for pain like this for another if at all possible.
Love,
Carson |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2009 : 1:19:48 PM
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I think it's also easy to misuse the idea that nothing causes pain and that it's all open to interpretation. I had probably the most wounding emotional experience of my life at the hands of someone who subscribes, in a very half-cocked and solipsistic way, to that kind of approach. And from where I sat it seemed like pure sadism, nothing more, nothing less.
The problem being, that if we aren't as advanced as we think we are on the Path, the kind of spontaneity we're talking about here is probably just self-justification (I'm debating here, btw, not finger-pointing - at least not to anyone here... )
I think it's better to assume that if something seems to be hurting someone it probably is, no matter what the possible long-term ramifications might be. The future doesn't exist, does it?
Namaste!
g |
Edited by - grihastha on Jun 25 2009 1:26:11 PM |
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Lacinato
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2009 : 9:15:52 PM
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I think this is a good question--what is the point of monogamy if it is not conscious? If it is done because it is the norm, without thinking about it?
I have read a lot on polyamory. It's much richer than it sounds. I can see why it would work for some. However, I'm not very impressed overall. It seems too easy to get bored, and look for someone outside the relationship to provide satisfaction, or even spiritual growth. Too easy to get scared to look so deeply into one other person (which monogamy facilitates). Too easy to say the other person just isn't providing what I need, and that being with them but not others is too constraining. And that would all be projection.
Monogamy doesn't preclude someone from being close with someone else and developing a deep connection. It does mean you have to be more careful with your sexual energy, and that you have to take a closer look in the mirror than you would otherwise. I think it's a great opportunity, but you'll get out of it what you put into it.
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2009 : 11:04:51 PM
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quote:
Monogamy doesn't preclude someone from being close with someone else and developing a deep connection. It does mean you have to be more careful with your sexual energy, and that you have to take a closer look in the mirror than you would otherwise. I think it's a great opportunity, but you'll get out of it what you put into it.
I totally agree, Lacinato.
Cheers,
gri |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 10:53:32 AM
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Hi,
I've read this thread with great interest as I have strong beliefs in monogamy but thats my choice.I have read the for and against with interest and noted what I believe are the dangers with both.
Monogamy (certainly in my case until my recent breakup of my marriage, 18 months ago) certainly restricted my spiritual growth simply because my wife was not the least bit interested in spirituality and felt I had a holier than thou attitude if I spoke of spiritual matters.So in my case I don't suppose either way would have made a difference as it was more about us as people rather than remaining faithful to each other.
I think there's a danger with condoning polygamy that the ego can somehow justify it in the interest of spiritual progress.Lets be fair the ego is responsible for most wrongs and rights we do.
After remaining celibate and not involved in any social life until recently I have formed a new relationship with a lady who is spiritually minded and we have laid down ground rules from the beginning which of course is not possible if one enters spiritual practices during a present relationship.We are open for the other to join in any pastimes etc but if we dont want to we wont expect the other to stop doing them simply because the other doesn't want to do them.The only rule we have set each other is that we remain exclusive to the other.So I'm hopeful that this time things will be different as we are fortunate to have agreed these ground rules from the beginning.
Monogamy? There's nothing greater than a love for another human being but when that love becomes a burden then I'm not for polygamy, I'm all for a complete severance for the sake of all involved and a fresh start.
L&L
Dave |
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Monogamy
