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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 31 2005 : 12:14:23 AM
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1. What do you guys think of the idea of worshipping a great spiritual ikon instead of god? Will that be any different from worshipping god?
2. How about the idea of worshipping a person that you like (say your father who is no more) instead of god? Wouldnt a person be able to love his/her real father better than god? Isnt it something we could easily concentrate and develop bhakthi on. Any problems with such a thing?
-Near
If anyone ever tells you your genes or astrological influences will hold you back, tell them to go away. Never let anyone ever tell you you can't do it. If God tells you that you can't do it, tell him/her, "I am coming in anyway." That is bhakti. It will not take "no" for an answer. The stars, our genes, and even almighty God cannot resist the power of bhakti. The parent cannot resist the incessant cries of its child. That is the truth - Yogani |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2005 : 5:34:32 PM
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1) Yes it would be different to worship an ikon instead of God. God is the essence behind anything you concentrate on, but an ikon is not. We need to find the essence behind things.
2) Same thing with a person. There's more to self realization than loving some one or thing.
What's your definition of worship? I understand bhakti, but don't know what worship has to do with spiritual advancement.
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Ute
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2005 : 12:16:56 PM
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Hi Near,
I think an analogy would be to make up a word, rather than using a mantra. It could be a nice word, like “love” or “peace” and there probably would be some benefit to giving it energy over time if you used in meditation, but it would not have the power of a mantra to advance you in your yoga practice.
Blessings,
Ute
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2005 : 9:05:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
1) What's your definition of worship? I understand bhakti, but don't know what worship has to do with spiritual advancement.
Etherfish
Though we might do our AYP practices just like scientific methods w/o any religious orientation, we still have some image of god/supreme. I generally feel/imagine somebody up in the sky. Thats how it has been since childhood even before coming into spirituality, so i dont want to disturb that. But generally it is recommended that you chose some fixed form so that it is easy to concentrate in the initial stages. They call such a fixed form "ishta".
My idea of worship is with this idea of god whatever we take him to be. For example when i walk back from office, i like to sing (or listen) songs and imagine them between me and god.
The reason many people fail in spirituality is that they try but make no attempt - Anonymous |
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Ute
39 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2005 : 7:49:08 PM
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Hi Near
Oh yes, “ishta” is valuable to stir our bhakti and direct it. The form ishta takes depends much on our temperament, to what extend we realize our own divinity, or how much we need to have it reflected back to us via an external source. My mind can’t comprehend absolute reality, so I have to give it form. I also realize that my ishta is a part of my higher being that is one with all other beings. When I focus on God I connect with my own divinity.
In a way it doesn’t matter what form ishta takes. Remember the story of Eklavia who was rejected by Drona. Eklavia made a statue of mud and called it Drona and worshiped it and received guidance to excellence. It worked, because like an external living guru, the devotion to the statue helped Eklavia access his Inner Knowing.
I personally prefer not to worship a human being. It creates a kind of karma I don’t care to accumulate. (I’m just done with six lifetimes with a guru). I also think it’s not so necessary anymore. Until recently, it seems we needed the tutelage of a master for spiritual evolution. Now human consciousness is evolving rapidly. Perhaps it’s that we are moving toward the Age of Aquarius where wisdom is shared freely among equals. There is still room for love, respect, and gratitude, but worship of a teacher is not necessary for me anymore. There are still many people getting much good out of their relationships with their gurus, and I think it’s great for as long as it works for them. It can generate much bhakti. I’m just done with that. On one level it seems enticing to be taken care of spiritually and having one’s growth facilitated, but it creates a dependency I no longer want. Why be carried when I can walk. I am very grateful to Yogani and the AYP, because I feel empowered by his gift. I am also grateful for the support and wisdom the fellow travelers on this path.
Blessings,
Ute
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2005 : 9:38:12 PM
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I can't seem to give God an image. When I see pictures of jesus or Yogananda etc, I just think of them as upperclassmen. I love God,
and talk to him, but just think of him as this incredible silent power, or the lightning and thunder, or the wind, or a million pounds of ocean wave crashing down and shaking the ground, or once I had a vision of his creativity aspect as hundreds of images of flowers opening, and babies and animals growing, and everything expanding and bursting forth. A couple times when I thought I may have heard his voice it was just a quiet human voice or maybe i imagined it. or sometimes he was all the blackness of space but somehow watching.
So that image thing doesn't work for me. maybe I think differently than you do, but I don't like the word 'worship.' It makes me think of all this ritual and bowing down because you aren't worthy, and mindless praise. I know it has other meanings though.
Etherfish |
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Worshipping human beings?
