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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 13 2005 : 08:52:47 AM
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| I am not sure this is for here but I want to ask if anybody knows the 'yoga' position on hair removal and especially laser epilation. Thanks! |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2005 : 11:52:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lili
I am not sure this is for here but I want to ask if anybody knows the 'yoga' position on hair removal and especially laser epilation. Thanks!
Hi Lili,
epilation did not exist historically as far as I know, so there is no yoga tradition on it. As regards hair removal in general, men and women have been doing it since we had the tools(that's thousands of years), and I can't imagine any teaching against it that I would believe in. (Of course there are certainly religious sects/schools who don't shave.)
I don't think surface cosmetic procedures have any real impact on Yoga practice at all, so I would suggest just judging the matter on its own merits apart from Yoga.
-David
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 13 2005 1:55:17 PM |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2005 : 12:39:51 PM
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Thanks
I was just thinking that there might be something because it is not 'natural' and laser treatments involve pointing some sort of 'energy' but I agree with the points that you are making. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2005 : 1:53:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lili
Thanks
I was just thinking that there might be something because it is not 'natural' and laser treatments involve pointing some sort of 'energy' but I agree with the points that you are making.
Welcome as always. Certainly, the stimulation might do something temporary. But let's face it, it's probably less invasive than other things we may approve more or less of, such as stitching a cut, or doing a tattoo, or piercing the ears. The stimulation might even have a positive effect (think of acupuncture).
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 13 2005 1:54:30 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2005 : 1:16:32 PM
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I think it's fine.
How can we decide what's natural?
We have to use our power of intention to change things in this world or we will die. If we lie in one place and let our hair and nails grow and don't wash our skin and don't take action to find food and water is it natural?
Some people think only the bare essentials are natural; get food and water but don't wash. So do they think food preparation or vitamin extraction isn't natural? Is soap natural? Some people eat only raw foods.
I think it's up to each one of us to be conscious of what is happening as we change things in this world and decide if they
are helping us or not.
Lasers are used in surgery because different kinds of lasers have different penetrations depending on what they are hitting. They are not like radio waves that penetrate beyond the surface. One reason surgeons use them is that they concentrate the energy in such a small area and cauterize so healing is fast.
Of course it does help to ask for other people's experiences
and knowledge like you're doing.
Hope you're leaving hair on your head. . .
Etherfish |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2005 : 3:45:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
How can we decide what's natural?
Etherfish,
you are echoing a philosophical point I made some time ago on the forum in an earlier posting. This earlier posting does touch some people's buttons because some people are invested in a view of the world in which the natural is good and the artificial is bad.
Dear Ashwin and Group,
...
I want to question though the concept of "body" and "foreign object".
Why is it better to do something with the body than with a tool? Is
it better to comb your hair with your hands than with a comb? To
brush your teeth with a your finger or with a toothbrush?
I am just being deliberately funny here, not disrespectful. :)
Human beings may be easily subject to the "naturalistic fallacy";
this can be viewed in two ways.
One is that we err in not knowing that our concept of "natural" is
arbitrary. Often it comes down simply to what we are accustomed to.
To a Westerner, amaroli (drinking a small quantity of ones own urine
as a health-stimulant) is disturbingly unnatural, and people have
violent reactions to the idea. In India, it is much more
acceptable. They know it is a good tonic. India is wiser than the
West in this respect.
Many people have objected (more so in the past in teh West) to yogic
stretching itself. Surely doing that to the body can't be "natural"?
We could work out thousands of examples of this sort of thing.
The second error is to believe that what is "natural" is better. Not
only is their no clear "natural", but there is certainly no
clear "better" in this naturalness.
The Western world still inherits something of the 'Noble Savage'
fallacy, where it is believed that the problems of human beings are
the result of conditioning and do not come from nature. Science (and
many aspects of Eastern philosophy) disagrees on this, and I agree
with science here. There is also a common fallacy that bad things do
not happen in the natural world, when you take the human beings away.
What *is* true (and what all yogis know) is that there is
Intelligence and Wisdom which are often untapped, and we use Yoga to
find it. I see the division between the Wise and the Unwise as
running across, not perpendicular to the purely-human, culturally-
bound and ironically *artificial* distinctions between Natural and
Unnatural.
And so I find it wise to snip my frenum while others find it
*unnatural*. I certainly agree with them that instinct is against
it. But instinct is not always good.
And according to what wisdom I can find, I snip my frenum with the
best tool I can find. I find a cuticle scissors better by far than
my teeth, and find my own choice of the best tool I can find to be
very "natural" (in the sense of good) for an intelligent animal.
Respectfuly yours,
-David
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Nov 06 2005 4:41:05 PM |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2005 : 5:00:43 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~
Hello all,
" What's natural or un-natural" is, in my humble opinion, what a society has discovered in their laws and what physics/scieince/etc. have discovered and how we use and apply this knowledge.
My definition of Natural is the " play and display" of the 3 gunas interacting. ALL creation is a display of this.
So, now you have to say what part is "natural" - many times we are saying what is satvic and within the laws of nature?
When a Lion attacks and eats a deer , that's quite natural. Or a Tornado that destroys cities - what could be more natural then the re-distribution of energy? How about bacteria destroying ones health -quite natural for the bacteria! Or the fusion of atoms - happens by the ton per second in the sun, but when we blow up people ( atomic bomb) its no longer natural?
I think what david_obsidian was pointing out was "natural" carries with it "better" or more aligned.
For me - the natural part is alignment with Dharma, or that which upholds. Some think this means duty - well yes, but the duty to that which "upholds". Upholds what ? the natural progression of life and the unfoldment of a person and society.
So, Nature or Prakrti ( from kr= to make, to do" and pra= forth) is the material part of Brahman - the Absolute part is Purusha.
From this we, and the rest of the universe manifests. From this comes the 3 guna which then combines to give us touch, taste, etc the 5 tattvas ( fire, earth, space, air, water).
When we talk of "natural" it’s the thought of the essence... and being closer to this original design and the elements ( fire, earth, space, air, water).
SO ---->
Is laser hair removal "Natural" - well it uses the fire part ( agni) within space ( akasha) and it touches the skin (earth and water element) and the fumes from the laser are carried via the Air element ( vayu) - SURE Seems like its natural to me!!!
The question is , is it part of Dharma ? That's the question for me. Does it uphold ones evolution and progression ?
This can be answered by Lili.
Just a thought….
Shanti.
Frank in San Diego
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2005 : 09:53:32 AM
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Thank you all for writing in the topic. About leaving hair on the head hihi  yes I tend to overcompensate the lack of hair on other parts by having extra long hair on the head  
quote:
Originally posted by Frank-in-SanDiego
The question is , is it part of Dharma ? That's the question for me. Does it uphold ones evolution and progression ?
This can be answered by Lili.
Well I really don't know about that since my knowledge of the principle of dharma is very tangential. However for women epilation and this stuff takes a lot of time every week that can be used for other more 'progressive' things like studying and yoga. From that point of view it seems to me if you can avoid wasting this time once and for all by means of laser epilation it looks like a good idea. However I am not competent enough to figure out the medical and yoga aspects.
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2005 : 10:17:02 PM
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| Heh. my personal preference is women with very long hair on their head......and smooth from the neck down ;) |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2005 : 09:55:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
Heh. my personal preference is women with very long hair on their head......and smooth from the neck down ;)
Yeah I also have a bunch of preferences but the party line seems to be that they don't count or something. Look for instance what Swami Sivananda is saying abt the body:
The physical body is not the 'I', it is the product of food it lives on food and dies without food. It is a bundle of skin, flesh, fat, bones, marrow, blood and a lot of other filthy things. It does not exist before birth or after death. It lasts for a short intervening period. It is transient. It undergoes changes such as childhood, youth and old age. It is an object of perception like a chair or a table. You continue to live even when hands and legs have gone.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2005 : 1:03:51 PM
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Damn, that's a depressing way to look at it. I know Sivananda is just trying to emphasize that the body is not our true self.
But during this lifetime, which seems like a long time from our viewpoint, we have been given this body to experience the immense world of illusions through. I think it's like a pet, and we should take loving care of it. Of course you have to discipline it also. For most of us, we are its only caretaker, we get to choose how to groom it.
Of course it matters; it has everything to do with our interaction with other people here, and that is what the whole world of illusion is about; to learn to interact with others.
Of course one can say it doesn't matter when looking at it from the viewpoint of reincarnating a million times to choose to reunite with God. But that's taking it out of context. That's like saying "Why wash the dishes; they'll just get dirty again."
If the body doesn't matter, let's see someone do these practices without a spine!
We're here now, and to make every facet of our life reasonably in order in the way we choose is the best way to live.
Castaneda called it "controlled folly." You pretend it all matters even though you know it doesn't.
We realize we are all actors, but we still strive to be the best actor we can, rather than leaving the stage. When we put our environment and our body in order, it's easier for most of us to meditate and accept the perspective that none of it matters.
Etherfish |
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Epilation
