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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - May 07 2009 : 10:58:11 PM
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From the "No WONDER It's So Confusing in Spots" Dept.
of Kabbalistic Expeditious Analysis or "Jew Gnosis" <- phrasing designed to rhyme w/what Mary Poppins said ..... 
Okay .... so ... check it out .....
The Old Testament of the Bible, and related Jewish writings-teachings ... make a LOT more sense when it is understood that these teachings were encoded to open up the deepest possible understanding that a given aspirant could take in, per their level of consciousness and spiritual education.
The same four primary divisions of consciousness recognized and outlined in every spiritual tradition -- and grouped together in a helpful mnemonic in the very first book of the Pentateuch (Five Books of Moses) and the Bible, Genesis - that mnemonic (memory-tool) being:
PaRaDiSe
(You've heard of it, yes? It's Hebrew for "orchard" - as in a place with *trees* - rumor has it, the word may have been mis-translated as *garden* in a couple of places .... ).
You know .... PaRaDiSe ...
Peshat
Remez
Derasha
Sod
Plain
Allegorical
Contemplative
Direct
(See Below for Details)
Here's a good thread-article overview of
PaRaDiSe at the Sophian Gnosticism Forum.
Excerpt:
"This is walking in the secret garden above, in heaven as it were, but there is also walking in the secret garden below, on the earth – the Holy Torah and Gospel are the secret garden below, the revelation of the Holy One of Being in humanity and the world.
Pardes also indicates this, for while alluding to the World of the Holy Sefirot it also alludes to the four levels of interpreting and understanding the Holy Scriptures: Peshat, Remez, Derash and Sod.
Peshat is the plain meaning or literal meaning, the spiritual wisdom on the surface that can be gleaned from exactly what the Holy Scripture says.
Remez are all of the hints or allusions that might be gleaned by the shape and position of the holy letters, the spellings of words, the relationship of words and their roots with one another, and the manipulations of spellings that can occur shifting the meaning.
Derash is the play of deeper inquiry and contemplation, venturing into the play of numbers, secret codes of the manipulation of letters and oral tradition.
Sod is within and behind all of this, the concealed, hidden or secret meaning – this is the Kabbalah revealed by the Holy Spirit, the illuminations of the World of Sefirot, and the world of neshamot and archangels, and the world of angels and spirits; it is secret because only Ruach Ha-Kodesh can communicate it.
Every passage of the Holy Scriptures, even those that may seem most trivial, mundane or strange hold these four layers of meaning. If you learn how to study and contemplate to penetrated from peshat into the greater depths, arriving at sod, the secret, walking in the orchard below becomes walking in the orchard above; with perfect kavvanah-concentration and full devekut there is no difference, walking in the secret garden is walking in the secret garden, above and below."
Stories like the ... well .... "*Orchard* of Eden" begin to seem a bit more ... useful ... when it's understood that every syllable was encoded to indicate highest consciousness *with* a language engineered for that purpose, and utilizing a sophisticated blend of geometry, number theory, harmonics and linguistics which end up maintaining and highlighting utter consistency on each level of that encoding, while also reflecting gateways to increasingly more open consciousness at each formal level (P,R,D,S - Peshat, Remez, Derasha, Sod).
Shalom & Shanti Aum,
Kirtanman
PS: Devekut is "Kabbalist" (Hebrew) for Samadhi; Sefirot is Kabbalist (Hebrew) for Chakras.
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2009 : 11:26:48 PM
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Kirtanman,
I totally don't understand some of the Old Testament (I love the New Testament)...someone please explain to me the message or meaning of the story of Lot and his daughters...I don't get it...why is that story in the Bible? That particular story reads like bad porn to me...
(edit begins here...)
I hope I don't get struck by lightening after posting this...
Nope...still here. |
Edited by - machart on May 08 2009 12:25:15 AM |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2009 : 06:34:54 AM
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Dear Kirtanman!
Thank you for this information. I didn't know these gnostics existed.
You should have participated in this debate: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1848
Your knowledge would have been much more useful than my anger!
Hey machart I wouldn't mind learning the deeper meaning of the story of Lot and his daughters either. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2009 : 10:45:51 AM
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Hi Kirtanman....
So would the Devinci Code be an example of reading the Bible in the Remez or Derash way? (I don't know much about the Devinci Code...it kinda gave me the conspiracy theory feeling so I just left it alone)
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on May 08 2009 10:46:42 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2009 : 11:22:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi Kirtanman....
So would the Devinci Code be an example of reading the Bible in the Remez or Derash way? (I don't know much about the Devinci Code...it kinda gave me the conspiracy theory feeling so I just left it alone)
Love,
Carson
Hey Carson,
Actually, no.
The Da Vinci Code was based on one of the premises I've outlined in this thread:
That the Council of Nicea in the year 325 voted on the accepted doctrines of the church, and suppressed the original, far more numerous gnostic gospels .... some of which teach that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.
That's all historical fact, well-documented.
The Da Vinci Code goes on to tell of long-standing legends that Jesus & Mary had a child or children, and that Mary and the child(ren) fled to what is now southern France, after Jesus died/un-died.
That part is less historically verified ... but is very long-standing as super-strong almost history, among certain groups of people ...... especially in southern France.
The Da Vinci Code goes on to say that this "royal bloodline", starting with Jesus and Mary, became the line of Merovingian kings in France (anyone remember "The Merovingian" dude from The Matrix?)
... And that the Holy Grail, which carried the "Blood of Christ" is/was actually ... Mary Magdalene ... she is the holy grail/cup/chalice which carried the "sacred seed" of Jesus.
This, of course, isn't historically verified ... but it is indeed the the source teaching of the mythology of the Holy Grail (sans the rabbits with "big pointy teeth" for any Monty Python fans in the house ..... ).
All of this is nicely covered in a non-fiction book, referenced in the Da Vinci Code book and movie, called The Woman With The Alabaster Jar by Margaret Starbird.
I actually found the Sophian Fellowship (Tau Malachi, etc. - that I've been referencing in multiple Christianity related threads) - due to a Google result, where Tau Malachi talks about how the "revolutionary" stuff in the Da Vinci Code has been part of his actual tradition for its entire history (as in: the Sophians kinda *yawned* at the whole Da Vinci Code thing).
Tau Malachi on The Da Vinci Code.
A better example of PRDS would be the story of Moses.
That's a topic for another thread ... (check new topics; it's already written, I'm gonna post it right now ....)
Peace, Love & Other Fun Stuff,
Kirtanman
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2009 : 10:02:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
Dear Kirtanman!
Thank you for this information. I didn't know these gnostics existed.
You should have participated in this debate: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1848
Your knowledge would have been much more useful than my anger!
Hey machart I wouldn't mind learning the deeper meaning of the story of Lot and his daughters either.
Hey Chiron, Machart & All,
In my typical style, I could really "go to town" - so to speak - on this one (story of Lot & his daughters) - but I'm feeling inclined to keep it simple, and will do my best.
Essentially, the "bad porn" perception stems from the cultural presupposition that Lot and his daughters were historical persons - and not mythological figures designed to illustrate principles.
Sexual union and resulting offspring is just *way* too fitting (pun fully intended ) a metaphor for aspects of consciousness and its creations -- *not* to be used in a lot of spiritual mythology.
I Googled around on terms like: Lot daughters gematria kabbalah -- and got a very mixed bag of results, most of which seemed somewhat confused at best ("Well, see, Lot's daughters actually did a *good* thing by getting their dad drunk and getting pregnant by him, because they *thought* they were the last people in the whole wide world ......").
Here's my take, based on an admittedly somewhat basic understanding of Kabbalistic mythology and illustrations (i.e. based on what I know of the symbolism of Abraham and Sarah, Isaac, Jacob-Israel, and so on - it stands to reason that Lot and his daughters are character-principles that were used in a similar mythological way.)
And so, 100% "The Gospel According to Kirtanman" .... or maybe "The Book of Kirtanman", since this is Old Testament stuff ....
Lot symbolizes consciousness ... consciousness somewhat identified with form, which gets a lot (pun *joyously* intended! ) more confused when it becomes intoxicated ... and seduced.
By what?
By other aspects of itself - its generated *offspring* - its *daughters*.
Rather than recognizing these beautiful, sociable and pleasant-buzz producing young women as his *children* - Lot-Consciousness ends up giving into the allure .... and becoming utterly lost to the reality that his own offspring (let's call them .... I dunno ... how about "Objectivitee" and "Subjectivitee") *are* his offspring ... and is instead led into the dreamy mists of sensual pleasure and the intoxication of physical life.
All of this takes place, by the way, in a cave - which is often used to illustrate a womb ... and/or ... a world ... or universe.
Subjectivitee gave birth to the line or people of Moab - "of the Father" - Chochmah - Wisdom.
Objectivitee gave birth to the line or people of ben-Ammi "of the Mother" - Binah - Understanding.
Wisdom - Consciousness - Seed.
Understanding - Form - the Womb of the Seed.
The new life generated by the union (V) of Consciousness-Energy (Y) and Form-Life (H), creating yet-greater, new Form-Life (H) ... the formula being:
YHVH
You may have heard .... consciousness can forget it is infinite - it can identify with form - and become lost in a dark cave - become drunk, and infatuated -- seduced and lost into daughters looking like lovers -- thoughts looking like reality.
But yet, because consciousness is consciousness - even dark dreaming drunkeness in a cave of dreams ... can be the womb of enlightening realization - the gestation of the awareness of unified awareness --- emptiness and form, Shiva & Shakti, Abba & Imma, Elohim - Enlightenment.
Even lost in a sense of limitation ... believing it is the "only one", the little incestuous family of waking, dreaming and deep sleep can and does leave its cave prison (by practicing AYP, or some other cave-exit-designating spiritual system) - crosses the threshold of ardhacandra (half-moon, half-reflection - and arises into sound - beyond sound) ..... and emerges consciously into the *awake* awareness which actually encompasses the entire dream of waking-dreaming-deep sleep dream of limitation - the meta-state known as Turiya - Inner Silence as Self - Pure Bliss Consciousness - AUM Sweet AUM ... and says ... as it always says:
"Let there be Light."
Is that an accurate interpretation of the original story?
I have no idea.
Is it more useful to realization than the conventional interpretation?
"I'm thinking maybe so!"
Was there really some crazy, hard-partying family of wine-swilling Israelites that made it into the book of Genesis? Who knows? I *kinda* doubt it though .... that story, especially with the Moab and ben-Ammi terms (and the fact that "Lot" - "Lut" in Hebrew -- means -- "Great") -- tells me there's more to this story than, well, "Bad Bible Porn."
Shalom & AUM Sweet AUM,
Kirtanman
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Edited by - Kirtanman on May 09 2009 10:10:20 PM |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2009 : 09:30:22 AM
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Thanks Kirtanman!
You are a very brave individual to undertake making spiritual sense of that particular piece of scripture. I always feel a little uneasy when I read that story.
I will try to grok your post...the first reading went right over my little pin head.
As always I love your posts...keep-em coming! |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2009 : 4:42:12 PM
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Another site of possible interest here:
http://gnosticteachings.org/
It has many free courses on kabballah in a gnostic setting. Almost too much information! I tried to read through it a year ago, but I didn't know where to start.
And the attitude of the author is not always... kosher... 
Peace
cosmic |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2009 : 8:05:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic_troll
Another site of possible interest here:
http://gnosticteachings.org/
It has many free courses on kabballah in a gnostic setting. Almost too much information! I tried to read through it a year ago, but I didn't know where to start.
And the attitude of the author is not always... kosher...
Peace
cosmic
Yeah ... I'd take the stuff on that site with a grain of salt .... maybe a whole pillar!
Spend a little time there, compare with some other Kabbalah/Gnostic sites ... I think you'll see what I mean.
I think I actually recommended them a *long* time back ... but then I read more of the stuff that's directly from their "dear departed guru" (Samael Aun Weor) - whom I believe has been previously discussed here at the AYP forum.
Example:
He teaches about how moving kundalini incorrectly can create the "dreaded kundabuffer" .. a tail-like appendage, branding one as a kundabuffoon (<- OK, I made that part up ... ).
I sometimes geek out a little on the Kashmir Shaivism stuff (Kundalini was first introduced to large numbers of people in the West via Kashmir Shaivism, and teachers from that general lineage and philosophy - Swami Muktananda, Swami Laksmanjoo) ... for instance, I'm rereading Abhinavagupta's commentary on his own Paratrisikavivarana ... and I have *never* heard of the "dreaded kundabuffer" in Sanskrit, in English, or in a strange hybrid of the two ("kundabuffer").
I dunno ... there may be some gems on that site for all I know .... I'm just suggesting keeping eyes ... and mind ... *wide* open.
Intending the Joy of Enjoying the Ride, for All --
Kirtanman |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2009 : 8:29:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by machart
Thanks Kirtanman!
You are a very brave individual to undertake making spiritual sense of that particular piece of scripture. I always feel a little uneasy when I read that story.
I will try to grok your post...the first reading went right over my little pin head.
As always I love your posts...keep-em coming!
Hey, Thanks! That's much appreciated --- and I likely will!
And, to *really* try to distill it:
It's kind've like:
"Mr. Letter A had two daughters, Ms. E and Ms. I .... they got their father-letter drunk and got pregnant (okay, so that part is a little weirdish for most people).
OR
Don't you think Elmer Fudd is *terrible* for getting the hots for Bugs Bunny, when he dresses up as a girl bunny?? I mean, he's an internationally-known personality ... and he's promoting transvestism (or whatever that's called) and bestiality ...!
As in: it's *Mythology* (and I'm guessing you got that point - I'm just highlighting it a little .... ).
AND
You might wanna step back a little ...... their *could* be lightning (if I'm wrong about the p.o.'d old guy in the sky being mythological ..... ).
The Name of God is often rendered by Jews as the Name of G-d ... because it's so sacred, they don't want to say it casually.
This is especially true for YHVH
Father-Mother-Son-Daughter (as principles of consciousness).
The One Light shines through from Crown (Keter) and emanates as:
Chokmah - Consciousness
Binah - Form
OR
Abba - Father
Imma - Mother
They have a sondaughter .... who splits into two ... Zeir Anpin (the "small face" - the Son) and Nukvah - the daughter - the bride.
Bride to whom?
To Zeir Anpin ---- her *Brother*("slash"-Conjoined-Twin).
And this is the esoteric illustration of embodied, creating consciousness - via the most sacred rendering of the Name of God in all of Judaism/Kabbalah.
How does all that work?
Consciousness-Energy & Energy-Form unite to Form Energies (and Energize Form, for that matter -- and for this matter, for all that matters!)
They have a kid, who initially thinks he-she is limited to the body-world he-she thinks he-she is/is living in.
Very confusing.
They break up.
She splits.
There's a wall between them ... called "me-and-everything else".
Then, a Ray of Light descends, and a voice quietly purrs:
"Mr. Ego-Mind ... tear down this wall!"
AYP ensues.
"Me" dissolves into "the world" .. the world dissolves into "me" ... and neither one survives .... but I live happily ever after .... opening mind to keep an open line (which is the whole point, now that I get around to it) with unbound awareness ... the O.M. -- original motherfather.
YHVH - One Infinite Little Family Unit Again Now. YAY. Or YHVH!
The point?
Yes.
And now look.
(Point ... Line ... Circle .... Awareness .... Mind ... World ....... it's All a lot more *single* than it seems ......!)
And basically, "ergo" .... Lot isn't *that* unusual, after all! Or before. Or whenever.
Creating the Odd Testament in Real-Time (or as Real as Time ever gets, anyway) ....
Kirtanman |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2009 : 8:32:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
He teaches about how moving kundalini incorrectly can create the "dreaded kundabuffer" .. a tail-like appendage, branding one as a kundabuffoon (<- OK, I made that part up ... ).
Hahah yes, I am apparently one such buffoon. My recollection is that getting too close to orgasm (i.e. the "abominable spasm"), masturbating, or pre-marital sex will create this unholy appendage (and damn one to Klipoth).
Check, check, and check... Klipoth here I come (pun intended). 
Sri Dude, would you consider the Sophian website the best you've encountered in this area of study? I've browsed it a bit but haven't dived in.
Thanks brother
cosmic |
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Key to Understanding the Bible: PARADISE!
