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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - May 02 2009 : 11:19:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
The forces of the universe in my life have worked in ways so dark that I doubt if most Christians would want to claim any part of it!
But it was always exactly what I needed.
Ditto!
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2009 : 11:33:11 AM
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BULA everybody!  (I couldn't find any icon with moustache, sorry!)
I'm glad that my thread found echoes in many of you.
Katrine: you should jump with both your feet in tango: as you said, you might surprise yourself (like I did with myself  )
emc: thank you for the videos and sharing.. it shows that we shouldn't draw any conclusion.. so amazing to hear that men are brought up like women in Fidji, and are given the choice to remain like "that" or not 
YIL: yes, I agree that woman is more "earthly" designed! but today, in our modern societies, or at least here in my country, women are becoming more and more disconnected with Mother Earth..so they are searching - and showing - "outside" what they already have "inside", naturally.. but this is another big subject to be discussed..
Carson: watch your "girls" in asana class more carefully: maybe they removed their moustache with laser or wax.. never know 
No but seriously, the basic asana (like surya namaskar) are quite gentle and I don't feel they don't fit women's system..that's my experience though..
Miguel: what do you mean by "strange lifestyle and organization"? to me, Osho is the exact opposite of any chosen or established lifestyle! now what happened after he left, and how the people in his ashram are managing the whole thing is a different story..
Personally, I feel Osho. I don't see "him" as a man, a master, a guru or whatever... I absorb him as consciousness and I am particularily receptive to the fragrance of his teaching and words..
I like his paradoxical approach.. he makes me conscious of the infinite freedom I have in my hands, whatever the situation I am in.
Also, he never give a system or readymade and logical answer that satisfies the mind and ego.. he leaves you in total freedom to explore.. he's only a bright light that is concerned with your inner light and your ability to grow your inner light without dependance on anybody or anything..
I love his fragrance, his dance...(without playing with the words )
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Edited by - Goddessinside on May 02 2009 12:05:09 PM |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2009 : 11:37:17 AM
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Hi again Etherfish..
whatever the story, be it true or false, if it resonates in you, then there is some truth in it, don't you feel so?
Even if Satan himself comes and tells me a joke that echoes inside of me and triggers something in me, should I disbelieve what he says just because he's considered as evil? |
Edited by - Goddessinside on May 02 2009 12:05:09 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2009 : 11:40:36 AM
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And Castaneda and magical passes (tensegrity) ...were inspiration here also
Its amazing those strange ways God works
Sorry for the break on this topic.You are talking about women and yoga,i know... |
Edited by - miguel on May 02 2009 12:05:09 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2009 : 12:32:08 PM
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Hi Godess
I talking about the fact that he was a man followed by very much people,and he created and organitation.
I think osho had a great knowledge and an astonishing inteligence...i felt his presence in my life also while reading it and while not reading...
But when i see and organitation,and a man worhsiped as some kind of god,i run away because it can be dangerous game(hes a human after all)...his lifestyle was strange...he bought lots of rollroyces,and im sure he had lot of money around,and...it makes me distrust him...
I think seeds of spiritual practice should be planted in a ground of the stile of ayp for example...and the sentence the guru is in you is the best spiritual sentence i have found...its my opinion...i know osho talks about that also...but is different...
For example who is oshos spiritual path? his tools and meditation are powerfull,but i think they are agresive tools,and without a clear structure...its like a big supermarket and you take what you want...and...how can i manage it over the long term?
I experienced the bigger states beyond the mind i have had with some meditations from osho,but thats all,only scenary experiences...and i felt it could lead you to be an experiences addict...
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Edited by - miguel on May 02 2009 12:43:09 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2009 : 5:03:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
Hi again Etherfish..
whatever the story, be it true or false, if it resonates in you, then there is some truth in it, don't you feel so?
Even if Satan himself comes and tells me a joke that echoes inside of me and triggers something in me, should I disbelieve what he says just because he's considered as evil?
No, that was exactly my point; that different people learn in different ways, and even satan can teach somebody something valuable.
After all, he was an angel!
"Diversity" equals different tastes.
And yes, if it resonates with someone it is good. I don't know if you can say that is truth. But, yes, I can see true things in Osho's writings above. But in some subjects like spirituality, truth may not be the most important attribute to look for. What is true for one may not be true for another. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 02 2009 6:18:20 PM |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2009 : 03:23:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
But in some subjects like spirituality, truth may not be the most important attribute to look for. What is true for one may not be true for another.
Yes, if we talk about each one experiences along the path.. we can never truly know what the other is experiencing BUT we are all on the same boat! We are all attracted, in a way or another, to the same source, call it God, Truth, Light, Love..
There is one and absolute Truth in which we dissolve; there's no more question of your truth or my truth: we are no more!
(by the way, sorry for the misunderstanding concerning Satan or what resonates in you..although I read you 2 or 3 times before sending my reply  )
Love |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2009 : 03:37:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Hi Godess
I talking about the fact that he was a man followed by very much people,and he created and organitation.
I think osho had a great knowledge and an astonishing inteligence...i felt his presence in my life also while reading it and while not reading...
But when i see and organitation,and a man worhsiped as some kind of god,i run away because it can be dangerous game(hes a human after all)...his lifestyle was strange...he bought lots of rollroyces,and im sure he had lot of money around,and...it makes me distrust him...
I think seeds of spiritual practice should be planted in a ground of the stile of ayp for example...and the sentence the guru is in you is the best spiritual sentence i have found...its my opinion...i know osho talks about that also...but is different...
For example who is oshos spiritual path? his tools and meditation are powerfull,but i think they are agresive tools,and without a clear structure...its like a big supermarket and you take what you want...and...how can i manage it over the long term?
I experienced the bigger states beyond the mind i have had with some meditations from osho,but thats all,only scenary experiences...and i felt it could lead you to be an experiences addict...
I totally agree with you about the guru business and cult.. I am the last one who would get involved in such distorsion of spirituality.
That said, I won't go into a meaningless debate concerning Osho's Rolls Royce and Rollex! Usually, that's the main concern of people who criticize Osho.. He was simply showing that it's all a game: you can have nothing or have a huge wealth, it's all a game and why not enjoying the game, as long as you remain aware and free from it?
What's the problem in enjoying and embracing those 2 opposites?
Is it necessary to be a Mother Theresa to be respectable and considered as spiritually correct?!
I don't defend Osho.. I don't care about Osho..but I care about seeing the distinction between Truth and all the business around..
I care about the freedom one has to experience anything in life, going deeply into any manifestation of Life on this planet..
as long as one remains aware..
Anyway, whatever the path we are walking on, Truth is nowhere else but IN us..
That brought us a little far from moustaches and women in yoga, but if the flow needs to express certain things, we shouldn't refrain it.(should we?!)
Love |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2009 : 07:23:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
Meanwhile, I started to include a whole set of pranayama (called Shakti Chalana kriyas) and since then, I felt a turning point:
my body began to shrink, or let's say, became tighter..
But my energy level became higher and higher, and I started experiencing ecstatic feelings and eventually kundalini symptoms.
BUT joy and sensuality were still absent.. the feminine essence turned into a "yogic/masculine" one..
In the first place, Yoga has never been invented for women. So that is a foolishness really to teach Yoga to women. It was invented by man and for man. So the whole idea is for the man’s physiology, not the woman’s...and their physiology is different, totally different, their chemistry is different. So the same posture may be good for man and may not be good for woman. I have seen this happening many times. Women become very fragile; they are fragile! Yoga puts such pressure on their glands, their hormonal system, their chemistry. It is so different — it was basically meant for man so woman has never been considered. It can make them ill and sometimes many other things also happen. If a woman persists for many days, maybe illness will disappear, but then male traits will start appearing in her, a moustache will start growing. If you go to Shree Aurobindo’s ashram and see the girls you will be surprised: out of all proportion they all are growing moustaches — too many Yoga exercises. Their breasts will start becoming smaller and it will be difficult for them to carry a pregnancy.
Then I realised that the women I know who are practising the same techniques as me, have a "masculine" look and tendency..
and some of them who had been practising for years have grown moustaches!
I cannot deny the fact that the practices are very uplifting and powerful.. but I cannot deny the way my body has changed.
I'm facing a dilemna today: should I let go of the yogic practices, or simply give it some time again and balancing it with belly dancing?
Also I was wondering why there wasn't many women in AYP forums..
Thank you for any input.
Hi Goddess,
Can't give you an expert response from point of view of physiology/biochem etc but can share bits from my experience. I am practicing AYP DM SB pranayama, mula bandha and sambhavi daily for over 3 years now. I find it very beneficial from point of view of energy levels and it enables me to reach a degree of personal effectiveness that I never experienced before. My tits and butt did not shrink and I don't feel masculine. I also don't have masculine look or tendency--still wear make up and high heel shoes daily and my hair is almost waist length. Having said that I do have personality traits that can be defined as masculine such as independence, ambition, drive, competitive personality but this was from before I started yoga. So I would disagree with Osho overall. I however never did asanas on a daily basis for years like I do DM and SB so less qualified to comment there. I do asanas couple of times a week or so and think they are very beneficial, but since I never had the motivation to do them daily cannot comment from experience. However the women hatha teachers I met so far were all actually quite feminine. Even those whom I haven't seen live but I have a DVD like this one http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images...0_AA240_.jpg
I agree with you that belly dancing is fun and gives you beneficial flexibility in the hips and is great for your mood but don't think this is any substitute for yoga whatsoever. No way. Good luck, Lili
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2009 : 08:20:35 AM
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| Meditation is the primary tool of Yoga, not asanas. Dancing is for grounding in between meditation. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2009 : 8:28:07 PM
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This is a fascinating discussion, and it really made me think. At first, I had the automatic reaction to label Osho's comments as total B.S., inasmuch as I'd been a disciple of the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for many years, and took teacher training with him in 1976, with my wife! My late wife was a beautiful and delicate woman, every bit the female, very much in tune with Mother Divine. We spent over 2 years together in ashram doing meditations for hours, alternating with much asana and pranayama practices. Later, Maharishi taught us siddhis, so over the course of our 34 years together, we continuously practiced an array of yoga techniques. What makes me consider that Osho might have a point here is that, off and on during our marriage, my late wife would STOP being very feminine at all, and suddenly begin to act a lot like a man--in her sexual responses, in her needs and desires for intimacy and companionship, and in her ambitions and energies. She seemed to swing widely from very feminine to nearly masculine--I NEVER in all our years together, considered this might be due to our meditation practices, but now I have second thoughts. Very interesting indeed, I have much now to consider...
Thank you,
Michael |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 12:01:45 AM
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hi all,
i must say that i agree with Goddess on some points bcz if i come to think of it most of the yoginis i met were more masculine than your average woman and most of them were into hatha yoga.
but to be honest we can't just say yet if there is a right or wrong here, but in general from what i've noticed most woman who practice hatha yoga tend to have more masculine attributes than your average woman.
as an add on for a hatha yogic routine i think that meditation and pranayama with focus on certain locations like the heart and tantric and bhakti and spiritual dancing practices like those whom Gurdijef used to teach will help a lot here.
for these practices involve an outpouring of passion and love into them and a surrender.. unlike most of the yogic stands where it's sort of pushing ahead and kind of dry but there is no black and white in this of course bcz some of my other friends are in love with asanas they give them all the thrills they need and on the other hand they are absent from most of the other sitting practices bcz of a long asana routine..
speaking for myself i am not such a fan of asanas and did hurt myself once bcz of them a few years back; now i just do a little tiny amount before my sitting practices and that's it.
so my sisters hell yeah dance go for it, and dancing is not just dancing it can be mindfull and an act of worship and celebration to god and to the divine feminine within you and peace in every gentle and eloquent movement.
everything is sacred it depends on the way we look at it, some see wood as a piece of wood nothing more nothing less and others see God\God's marvel in that peace of wood.
i am a big fan of belly dancing by the way, like it when you ladies shake them hips.
light and love,
Ananda
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 04:11:57 AM
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Hi all, and thank you for each participation.. much appreciated.
I should clarify one point: no, I will never substitute yoga for dance.. As I said, I feel it's a balancing activity which, until now at least, is enhancing a lot my daily practices, especially that I bring much mindfullness to it, so in itself, it becomes more than just moving my hips it becomes a meditation in the sense that "I" disappear and melt in the music and flow of Life energy.
The same merging happened to me, on a more physically quiet note, yesterday, when I spent hours in the mountain, connected to an old oak.."I" simply disappeared.. the body sensations faded away for a moment, and I reached a similar state of "deep sleep" - while being still "awake" - than the state I reach in AYP DM.
Actually, I picked up - randomly, but not by mistake! - a technique from the Book of Secrets. That was the one about touching the eyes balls like a feather..Before picking this technique, I did what I often do: I asked to open on a page that would give me the best thing I need at that moment. I remained with this request for about a minute, in silence..and suddenly, my hands opened the book and I saw this technique that is concerned with stimulating the third eye and heart, by the way..
Funny because it's been a while my eyes are feeling tired with burning sensation (I used to put it on the computer radiations, although I don't spend much time in front of the screen)..
Then, in the evening, I joined the monthly satsang of Isha Foundation.. usually, I go there to tune to the higher energies that always removes my blocks, through the presence of the guru energies..and yesterday, it happened too. YET, it was the first time I was feeling totally homeless!!! instead of leaving the place in peace and joyful inside, I was more lost than ever! I had this increasing feeling of "this is not for me.. my heart doesn't vibrate to what Saddghuru said.. also it was deadly logical, as usual! But there's no fragrance.. there's technique.. there's mastering of energies, but where's love? where's dance?"
At the end of the satsang, I asked the teacher about this issue of yoga and women.. I won't go into details.. but we agreed that there was no absolute rule, and the best thing to do is listen to what feels good and gives stability inside..
But how to know if it's the ego that wants to feel comfortable, or truly the heart? coz the ego can sometimes be very cunning and create many subtle excuses..
I asked the teacher whether it would be safe for my energy to drop the practices for a while and replace them with other ones that I feel "softer" and let's say more "feminine", yet powerful.. she said I would certainly loose, but on the other hand, I should be aware of what the new practices would do to my system..
So again, I'm still facing a dilemna..
And I know fairly well the price I pay each time I skip my practices for 1 or 2 days.. it takes about 1 week to recover a certain balance..
Added to this, before I left the satsang, I bought a new DVD from Saddhguru Jaggi Vasudev on Tantra! I watched it yesterday evening, and it sounded so heavy and difficult that I really freaked out! It had nothing to do with any Tantra stuff i read, even Yogani's lessons (Hi Yogani )
I wish I could share with all of you this video.. will check out if I can do so from the DVD.
But during 20 minutes, the main ideas were that it's shameful that Tantra, which literally means 'technology', has been abused and misunderstood to be mere unbridled promiscuity, especially in the West.(I agree on this point at least!)
Also, he said that, originally, Tantra was about going beyond individual limitations. He talks about Goddesses that were created by humanbeings as powerful entities they could call through a certain processes. And blablabla, but not a single word on the sexual aspect of Tantra, the role of Woman, the simplicity of acceptance and total 'yes' to any manifestation of Life.. Rather a heavy discourse that makes the audience feel that Tantra is totally unaccessible! At least, this is how I perceived it..
So, sorry if I'm including many things off the main topic of this thread, but actually, I feel they are all connected.
-the guru role
-tantra/yoga relationship (alone and with women)
-ego vs heart on the spiritual journey
I woke up this morning with such a confusion as if the balance I attained lately suddenly collapsed in just a few hours!
In itself, it's good: at least, it prevented me from relying on my comfortable routine and beliefs! But it's such an uncomfortable feeling now to belong to nothing, no system, no idea!
This is how it is now.
I think it would be best that I go meditate and tune again into silence. Also I feel that whatever creates frictions and put me in an instable state, with no answer that vibrates in my heart, should be thrown away..
I cannot go on practising the techniques I learned just for the sake of bringing my energies to high levels! What if the heart doesn't follow?! It's total nonsense!
I'm not running after enlightenment, or liberation.
I won't let a so-called guru disturb my faith in what I feel in my heart.. whatever truth he speaks.
(sorry for the long post  )
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Edited by - Goddessinside on May 04 2009 05:20:50 AM |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 05:31:52 AM
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This may not be the appropriate place for the whole thread now, but still I'm putting Tantra in the context of my initial question about Yoga and women..so, maybe it's not that much out of the subject.
Ok, I will share with you what Sadghuru said quite briefly about Tantra, which disturbed me quite enough:
The human mind, initially, is designed in such a way that it can create things that can become a living reality on the condition that you don't impose your personality on it.
But today, this great capability has been lost because of many limitations.
The whole Tantra Yoga is about breaking the individual shell so that what you do doesn't happen as a petit individual but happens as a whole.
(...)
[he says that you can create things, piece by piece, using your mind, and infusing those things with Life forces so that they become a living reality.. that's how ancient tantric people created entities or goddesses they could call through certain processes]
It takes a great amount of sadhana to be able to create as the Creator did. The most fundamental thing is to keep your personality off your imagination.
So here, I'm asking the question: what all of this has to do with the Tantra we "know" and are practising today?
Thank you for taking the time to read and eventually reply.
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 05:36:53 AM
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Hi Folks,
Just to add the fact that there have been men in this forum who expressed fears that yoga could make them meek/feminine (also in lessons http://www.aypsite.org/28.html).
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 06:54:55 AM
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| Goddess, what he said about tantra is for me absolutely clear and correct! Tantra is about etting rid of "me and mine" and open up to the Self, like all other traditions are. However, many other traditions exclude sexuality and promote celebacy to cultivate the sexual energies on the journey. The tantric tradition includes the sexual normal activity and says yes to everything - why not use the sexual drive to cultivate the sexual energies? Since the tantrics were open to include sex in the vast spiritual total life, that tiny sexual part has mistakenly over time grown to be "the whole tantric thing" and has become synonomous with the word tantra. When "neo tantra" showed up, it became VERY associated with sex only, which I personally think is a pity, and which your guru also mentioned. Google tantra and you will find many porn sites. True tantra is beyond sex (as pleasure for the little me) altogether, it's about the union of Shiva-shakti - beyond all personality. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 07:57:54 AM
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Hi Goddessinside,
It is so easy for people to impose their ideas on others. You have done so well to go beyond that so far. I know it's hard at times to see through things esp. when it is said by people who we give a "higher" position to. But take a step back and look at your life. Do you think you have become more masculine? You said you never liked dancing, but you enjoyed dancing now.. maybe yoga is opening you up to enjoy dancing.. the tantra practices are getting you more in touch with your feminine side. As you unleash the Devi in you, you will get more and more feminine.. you become a goddess. The energy channels open up and energy flows freely to help you dance as a goddess would dance, you move like the goddess moves.. you radiate love like a goddess does. Yoga and tantra (and like emc said, tantra is not just sex, it is so vast, it is all about getting over the "me" and "mine") will open you up so you can actually experience yourself and not an image of what you or anyone else thinks you are or should be.
It is good to read and get stuff from others, but finally verify it for yourself. Don't take anyone's word for it. There was a completely different Goddessinside I corresponded with 6 months back. There have been so many beautiful changes, openings, flowering that has happened to the goddess inside you. Why do you doubt your path? Has it shown you anything but positive shifts? You are one of the most beautiful shifts that yoga has seen... and I bow my head to you. You are what they call a spiritual treasure, just waiting to flower.
Read and take what works for you form different traditions.. but when things seem out of sync.. just let them go. All gurus will guide you in the path that worked for them. You pick what works for you from those paths and keep moving on. Trust your inner guru.. trust the goddess inside you. Like I said in another post yesterday.. people can draw you a map.. but your journey is your journey.. it will have its own sets of scenery, hills, rivers, potholes, resting places, flowers etc. Enjoy your walk. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 08:01:42 AM
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What if yoga was balancing the male/female energies, so each person gains more of the opposite?
Just a guess.
But feminine should not be thought of as "meek". That's something male-dominated cultures have taught women. |
Edited by - Etherfish on May 04 2009 08:02:27 AM |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 10:48:12 AM
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ok.. first of all, I want you to know that each one of you is a unique and great support right now, as I'm writing..
Thank you for that.
Second, no, Tantra is not only about sex..
But the very word "sex" has become a source of misunderstandings.
In sex you can put everything, from lust&porn to the highest peak of ecstacy and bliss.
When I make love, I don't have sex to give pleasure to my self.
Evrybody went through this physical-hormonal-compulsive drive and tendency which is natural and biological.
When I make love (or should I say used to!?), I offer my whole self, and I become deeply receptive.. how can the "I" remain in that state of deep intimacy? It simply melts in deep union and peace..
I have never been able to dive in this blissful state in another context. At the most, I had deep releases and openings of heart during practices.. So, basically, I have a deep rooted problem of attachment to a certain context that allowed me to naturally unfold and experience deep blissful states. I just find it unfair to be "forced" to work on artificial means to reach this blissful state again..when I say "forced", it's not that anybody is forcing me, but once you taste bliss, you just crave for getting back to it again.
Sometimes, I find women who never experienced deep ecstacy lucky..
They don't even know what they are missing.. how could they feel frustrated? They simply do their practices, when they are on a spiritual path, and eventually experience intense things..(or what they think to be the most intense things they've ever experienced) and by the way, when each of us use the terms "bliss" or "ecstacy", what is perceived as blissful to you, could simply be plain pleasure to someone else..it is so relative.
Emc: don't tell me about tantra porn websites on Google! I just got enough of that! Such sickness.. I dream of the day when making love would become synonym with making peace..
Shanti: you can be proud of yourself: you made me cry  I can see the evolution for the 6 past months, but it's always supportive to see friends who confirm your inner feelings about it. Thank you. I am the one who bows down to you. I just hope the flowering will happen for me soon.. I don't wana stay in the waiting room anymore
It's just that listening to "my" guru yesterday, I felt so small, so limited, and felt I am way far from the highest possiblities I could attain..it sounds stupid simply put like that, but the realisation of this fact in itself makes your ego shrink and all the hopes, expectations, desires, beliefs, are simply destroyed.
They say a real guru is not the one whom you feel pleasant and comfortable to sit with. He's the one who goes on showing your limitations and breaking your ego. But they also say that no matter how painful it is, your guru is the one you feel attracted to, despite the fear..
And I think Sadghuru, alhough he offered me powerful tools and allowed me to experience higher levels of energies, he's not the one I'm attracted to or "vibrate" to.
I guess this could be the criterium..(?)
What bugged me also was the feeling that I was on a totally wrong direction or understanding of what tantra is. I was so receptive to the simplicity of Osho's teachings (simplicity, not easiness!)
Now that I heard Sadghuru talking about Tantra, it felt such a high unaccessible thing!! As if to say: little girl, forget about all your illusions, get back to tough earth, and work hard! you are far from purity and light! Still tons of layers to shed!
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Edited by - Goddessinside on May 04 2009 10:55:29 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 8:39:28 PM
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Interesting, Goddess.
It's possible to learn from more than one source at a time also.
Google tantra? is that like this?------> |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 08:29:48 AM
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quote:
I couldn't believe "this" was in me.. Just 1 hour allowed me to reconnect with the woman in me, the natural sensuality and grace that I had forgotten or neglected all these years..
The energy was flowing in every single inch of my body. I had a glow on my face..simply couldn't believe what was happening to me.
How beautiful, Goddessinside! I really feel mudita now. Thank you.
A process of connecting my masculinity, which I lost during my first intimate relationships, started some four years ago, when an astrologist talked to me about the strong influence of Venus on me. At that time he recommended, that I should search for Mars inside myself. He explained that as human beings, we are designed for wholeness, and that we need to search for it in order to be happy. And so, he didn't suggest to simply replace the Venus principle with the Mars principle, because I am a man, but to find and befriend both, in order to embrace them both, gain freedom, and find an open, sincere and healthy connection to both sexual principles. This equanimity then would open the way for my true nature, to manifest on it's own.
He was so right! I feel so well centered in my masculinity nowadays, yet appreciating all the feminine around. Also, I found that this approach leads to not being afraid of my own feminine, and this is the key, I think, because ultimately there is no gap between inside and outside. It makes me free to love the feminine without hindrances, and open to it without fear - whether it comes from inside, or outside. And so, it seems not to be about connecting with one of the principles to the detriment of the other. Broad perspective, instead of exclusive identification .
All the best,
Roman |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 11:19:09 AM
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Beautiful Roman! Yes.. we all tend to become whole..
That's what people seek consciously or unconsciously and
the physical lovemaking is a desperate attempt to become one! at least for a moment.
I found an interesting article about the relationship between our first chakra and its influence on male/female aspects or qualities that could be the underlying cause of physical illnesses like AIDS and herpes.
This is an excerpt of the article:
The first chakra is often dismissed or seen as "Less Than," in relation to the other energy centers.
This is a serious misconception. Our life force and connection to things physical emanates from the first chakra (after all, none of us were delivered through the heart, throat, third eye, or crown, were we?), so why are we so hesitant to fully experience our own fire? The first chakra, in all it's maleness, manages to work in exquisite harmony with the Mother energies to bring forth new life. I think it is a truly remarkable thing, this masculine center through which passes the most Sacred, feminine energy,the waters of the womb and the blood of the Moon. Our evolution as a physical species may be no more complicated (or no less) than that process fire and water, Co-Creating in harmony.
(...)
If diagnosed with either herpes or shingles, decide not to accept the diagnosis of the disease as something that can never be cured. Then, spend some time daily connecting to the energies of The Divine Mother. This connection can be made through requesting the feminine energies to come in during meditations and dream time encounters, and through conscious connection with Nature. Spend time with plants, water, trees, stones, soil, etc. Finally, open up your mind's creative storehouse and find something to "Create."
Suppressed creativity is definitely a factor in the development of herpes, as well as the severity of symptoms. Decide now to involve yourself in something enjoyably creative-dancing, acting, singing, painting, writing, sculpting, designing, etc. Creativity is essentially an intuitive, feminine process and closing that part of you down is a dishonoring of the feminine. Open your imagination, activate childhood fantasies, and take up hobbies reflecting earlier creative tendencies.
Hope you will find it useful
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Edited by - Goddessinside on May 05 2009 11:23:24 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 11:57:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
Shanti: you can be proud of yourself: you made me cry I can see the evolution for the 6 past months, but it's always supportive to see friends who confirm your inner feelings about it. Thank you. I am the one who bows down to you. I just hope the flowering will happen for me soon.. I don't wana stay in the waiting room anymore
I am not sure if I should say I am sorry I made you cry or you are welcome (since you thanked me). But please do accept my apologies if I did upset you.
The flowering has happened, is happening and will continue happening. It is not a one time thing. It is like a rose, tightly closed up, and then a layer of petals open, and then another and another. Like that, we are tightly closed up, then we drop some layers and open, and some more... and some more. The closed up, confused, sad Goddessinside from 6 months back is now a confident, happy Goddessinside... and getting more and more in touch with her true self. That is the flowering.. and the more you open, the more you will flower.
quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
It's just that listening to "my" guru yesterday, I felt so small, so limited, and felt I am way far from the highest possiblities I could attain..it sounds stupid simply put like that, but the realisation of this fact in itself makes your ego shrink and all the hopes, expectations, desires, beliefs, are simply destroyed.
They say a real guru is not the one whom you feel pleasant and comfortable to sit with. He's the one who goes on showing your limitations and breaking your ego. But they also say that no matter how painful it is, your guru is the one you feel attracted to, despite the fear..
And I think Sadghuru, alhough he offered me powerful tools and allowed me to experience higher levels of energies, he's not the one I'm attracted to or "vibrate" to.
I guess this could be the criterium..(?)
What bugged me also was the feeling that I was on a totally wrong direction or understanding of what tantra is. I was so receptive to the simplicity of Osho's teachings (simplicity, not easiness!)
Now that I heard Sadghuru talking about Tantra, it felt such a high unaccessible thing!! As if to say: little girl, forget about all your illusions, get back to tough earth, and work hard! you are far from purity and light! Still tons of layers to shed!
I really don't know much about gurus. I know I enjoy listening to some of them. To me, when you are in the presence of an enlightened guru, who is telling you truths you don't want to hear.. you may have reactions to his/her words but yet you will be drawn to be close to him/her. If you are not feeling comfortable with his/her words, or not understanding the words... it maybe he/she is not for you right now.
"A true Guru will never humiliate you, nor will he estrange you from yourself. He will constantly bring you back to the fact of your inherent perfection and encourage you to seek within. He knows you need nothing, not even him, and is never tired of reminding you. But the self-appointed guru is more concerned with himself than with his disciples."
– Nisargadatta Maharaj
Tantra is not complicated. It is not something that is way out there beyond everyone's reach. Since the words are very cryptic, it can be made as complicated or as simple as a person wishes to make them. Anything that can give you pure joy for a moment will take you to the gap.. Vigyana Bhairava Tantra give us 112 real simple meditation techniques to use everyday things to find that gap. If your guru makes it sound "high" and "inaccessible", then maybe he is not talking at your level. That is not a bad thing.. maybe you need to go back to those talks a bit later. Right now, stay with Osho's simplicity of tantra if that helps you.
In Vigyana Bhairava Tantra (VBT), the first 9 techniques use the breath to find the "gap".. there are a few techniques that use emotions like anger, pain, fright, some of the techniques are geared for the people who are artistic, some for people who enjoy food or music or art, some others include sound, sexual techniques, sleep, cosmos, darkness, thoughts and many other every day mundane things that people go through. VBT are very easy techniques to help you unclutch. When in mind, it is very hard to find the gap that disconnects the thoughts.. finding the gap helps us break down the mind. Meditation helps us have easier access to the gap. So meditation along with the practice of pranayama and tantra.. all together will make the grounds fertile for our awareness to emerge and take over our everyday life. Then we will be living in ecstatic bliss all the time. That is what tantra teaches us. It is not a matter of understanding it with our minds.. its a matter of experiencing it with our being... and if what your guru tell you is hard to follow, go with the things that you do follow for now. It will all lead you to the same place. Nothing wrong with ordering from picture menus if you cant read yet . |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 12:15:44 PM
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Hi Shanti..
You made me cry out of gratitude and emotion.. and anyway, how could you ever hurt me?! Whenever something hurts me, it simply hits something inside that needs to be looked at, so never worry or feel sorry.
You are probably right: if the guru's talk felt disturbing and made me upset, maybe it was because something deep inside of me was seeking an answer or a release.. and it was partially about karmic tendencies.. Apart from the DVD on Tantra, I joined the satsang because I needed to know whether it was time for me to walk on a different path or not.. so it was a deep inquiry and I just tried to open my self and receive whatever would come during the "meeting"..
Today, I did spinal breathing + deep meditation.. I felt my brain was a big cotton-like ball.. so, much purification was happening in the head..I slept deeply for about 20 minutes, then did (Isha) Shambhavi, and realized, almost visualized, what may have happened during satsang: I had this feeling that the guru broke my attachment to certain thoughts I have.. that could explain the "dispersed" or "puzzle" feeling of the mind substance.. I could almost draw it, coz I had a very physical perception of that, during my practices today..
It may sound like a rationalization, but this is simply because many words are needed to explain a very quick perception. But this is the best I can do to explain what I perceived.
So, yes Shanti.. you may be right.. I shouldn't draw any conclusion concerning Saddguru's talks.. Let's put it aside for the moment, and expeiment slowly with the Vigyana Bhairava Tantra techniques.
Thank you Shanti for your Love..
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Edited by - Goddessinside on May 05 2009 12:19:48 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 12:22:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Goddessinside
then did (Isha) Shambhavi, and realized, almost visualized, what may have happened during satsang: I had this feeling that the guru broke my attachment to certain thoughts I have.. that could explain the "dispersed" or "puzzle" feeling of the mind substance.. I could almost draw it, coz I had a very physical perception of that, during my practices today..
... beautiful. No does not sound like rationalization.. sounds like an inner understanding.. a knowing beyond the mind.. perfect. |
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