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 Other Systems and Alternate Approaches
 Buddhism, The Rainbow Body and Enlightenment
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Page: of 26

alwayson

Canada
288 Posts

Posted - May 09 2009 :  11:39:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I thought you were buddhist lolll
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 09 2009 :  2:15:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Alwayson, You have much to learn. Buddhism is Body-Speech-Mind Yoga. Ultimately, Buddhism is Mind Yoga. The main point of view of both Dzogchen and Mahamudra is that the entire Cosmos is encompassed by Mind. The nature of mind is the unelaborated Dharmakaya. Patanjali's premise that Yoga is the cessation of mental modifications corresponds directly to the Buddha's teachings of nonattachment. Lord Jigten Sumgon taught that Vendanta, Agama and Tantra are the foundation of Buddha's samadhi. The Buddha's samadhi surpasses them by transcending all concepts and non-concepts of peace, joy, ecstasy, bliss, purity, etc., etc., and acts directly for the benefit of all beings through the dharma-as-such. LOL.

Essentially, the Vedas, Agamas, Sutras and Tantras take the seeker to the door of transcendental wisdom. Non-recognition/non-discrimination takes one through the door, which happens with non-attachment and non-fixation. Then the thoughts disperse like clouds, and dissolve like drops into the water.

Edited by - Konchok Ísel Dorje on May 09 2009 2:47:10 PM
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 09 2009 :  2:17:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
BTW. I am not a Buddhist. I am a yogi. My guru is in the lineage of the Buddha Shakyamuni.
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 09 2009 :  2:29:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
When a wise man hears the Dharma he is awe-struck and a little terrified. When a fool hears the Dharma, he laughs.
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alwayson

Canada
288 Posts

Posted - May 09 2009 :  3:03:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know how you jumped from emptiness of all phenomenon to One Mind.

The Buddha did not teach this.

Dharmakaya can only be seen by ninth stage bodhisattva's and Buddhas.

When the dharmakaya is pointed out, that is just the fact that all phenomenon lack inherent essence from the "beginning" (there is no "begining").

Where is this One Mind coming from?

Edited by - alwayson on May 09 2009 3:22:03 PM
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Kirtanman

USA
1651 Posts

Posted - May 09 2009 :  5:58:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Kirtanman's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by alwayson

explain how you would acheive the rainbow body by non-buddhist methods



Practice AYP.
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alwayson

Canada
288 Posts

Posted - May 09 2009 :  6:31:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman

quote:
Originally posted by alwayson

explain how you would acheive the rainbow body by non-buddhist methods



Practice AYP.



yes with view of sunyata

Edited by - alwayson on May 09 2009 6:38:38 PM
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divinefurball

USA
138 Posts

Posted - May 09 2009 :  7:10:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi alwayson, thank you again for your referance to the book that I will order tomorrow. While I wait for it, I was wondering if you could tell me why and how you discriminate between the rainbow body and enlightenment. It seems there is some confusion about how we should all be using these terms on this thread. With Thanks, divinefurball
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alwayson

Canada
288 Posts

Posted - May 09 2009 :  10:10:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I try not to use the term.

I like bodhi (awakening) a lot better. Different levels of bodhi are associated with different bhumis.

When people use the term enlightenment nowadays I think, they are talking about Advaita/Zen thinking about realizing the nature of the mind.

Realizing the nature of the mind ala Ramana Maharishi etc. seems to be the end goal.

But in Vajrayana, realizing the nature of mind is the first thing done.

So realizing the nature of the mind is only the beginning in Vajrayana.

Edited by - alwayson on May 10 2009 10:17:46 AM
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  11:34:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The Buddha teaches that all phenomena, causes and conditions are manifestations of the mind. Where does it come from? Look inside your own mind. It comes from the discrimination born of attachment.

Edited by - Konchok Ísel Dorje on May 10 2009 2:00:23 PM
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  12:52:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Appearances and emptiness are always inseparable.
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alwayson

Canada
288 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  2:01:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
You always make a big deal of realizing the nature of the mind.

This is fine. And yes it is very important. But I am sure some people here have already done that.

that "enlightenment" is only step one in Vajrayana. I know in modern Avaita/Zen, this is the end goal. Which is why they suck.

I think I get what you are saying about the Mind thing.

Like how other people ONLY exist as past memories (and fictitious future projections) in your own mind at the present moment, the only moment there ever is? (because time is similarly a man-made label as well)

Edited by - alwayson on May 10 2009 2:21:23 PM
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  2:50:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
If you realize interdependent causality you know that the present moment never arises. Did the Buddha say the present moment is real? He said everything is unreal. That is why the present moment is a key to unlocking the unmanifest.

There are no steps beyond meditating on the nature of mind. One step yoga: AT THE MOMENT, see mind, while resting in the non-seeing non-conceptual state without judgment, focus, attachment, fear or hope.

The concise instruction is: seeing nothing is seeing; don't move; sit like that.

What distinguishes Zen/Advaita from Vajrayana is: Dharmakaya is the union of appearances and emptiness. The appearances of the senses, the emotions and the intellect are opportunities to practice at the moment, and to realize their lack of inherent existence. To practice on them and to experience their emptiness. Not to think about them, to liberate them in the Dharmakaya.

Why do I make a big deal about the nature of mind? How do you get the first bhumi? or the tenth? Investigate whether you hold some concept as true, untrue or void. Do your concepts come from space, from your memories or what?

Edited by - Konchok Ísel Dorje on May 10 2009 3:15:20 PM
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  2:53:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Samsara (time included) arises from likes, dislikes and confusion.
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  2:55:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Vajrayana enlightenment is like two wings of an eagle: one wing is study and contemplation of the Buddhas teachings, the other is meditation.
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  2:59:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
"Ignorant worldlings think wrongly that it is causal,
conditional and due to the self as such, according to the way
their consciousnesses differentiate and discriminate while
they do not know that the language they use has no real
meaning." The Buddha, Surangama Sutra
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  3:10:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Worldly beings are afflicted. The Buddha a doctor. The Dharma is medicine. If you know are you afflicted you will take the doctor's advice and eat the medicine.

The medicine is not just to recognize mind's nature, which is the Dharmakaya, the Buddha-nature, but to practice always. You practice in meditation. You practice in post-meditation as appearances arise, as emotions bind you, as thoughts spin the spiderweb.

In meditation you habituate yourself to seeing the nature of mind. You wake up for a little while. Get up from meditation. Thoughts and emotions, even in your dreams will lull you back to sleep. At the moment, if you can remember mind's nature, liberate the afflicted states. Practice meditation again until you are fully habituated to abiding in the Dharmakaya. Repeat liberating your karmic afflictions.

The is the continuous 24/7 process of awakening to complete Buddhahood with miracle powers and omniscience.

Edited by - Konchok Ísel Dorje on May 10 2009 3:15:20 PM
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  3:15:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  3:52:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
"If you will only cease to discriminate and to
believe in the (three illusions that there are) the universe,
karmic retribution and (the realms of) living beings, the three
conditions (derived from killing, stealing and carnality) will
come to an end." The Buddha, Surangama Sutra
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  3:56:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Afflictions self-liberate only if, at the moment they arise, you are resting in the View with no attachment, no focus or hope.
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  4:01:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
"If the (so-called) cause and condition of madness had been
wiped out, the madman's own nature which was not mad would have revealed
itself, and whatever you may rationalize about cause,
condition and self-existence does not go beyond this." The Buddha, Surangama Sutra
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  4:05:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
"The idea that Bodhi Mind is created after the samsaric mind has been annihilated pertains to samsara." The Buddha, Surangama Sutra
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  4:10:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
"Therefore, Ananda, your memorizing and remembering the TathÓgata's profound and wonderful teaching for successive aeons cannot compare with one day's practice of the Transcendental Path which has enabled you to avoid suffering from both love and hate." The Buddha, Surangama Sutra
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alwayson

Canada
288 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  4:17:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit alwayson's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Konchok Ísel Dorje

Repeat liberating your karmic afflictions.




Only possible to do in one lifetime through tantra right?

Even ninth bhumi stage bodhisattvas need a little bit of tantra to obtain tenth stage.

From my understanding, as long as you have a physical body, your "karma" has not been taken care of.

That is why when someone attains the ja lus, their karma is finally done.

Edited by - alwayson on May 10 2009 5:32:11 PM
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Konchok Ísel Dorje

USA
545 Posts

Posted - May 10 2009 :  4:58:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit Konchok Ísel Dorje's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
"Excellent, Ananda, if you want to know about the
innate ignorance that causes you to transmigrate in samsÓra,
(you should know that) the roots of your birth and death are
your six sense organs. If you want to know about Supreme
Bodhi, it is these six organs that will enable you speedily to
realize happiness in liberation and permanence in NirvÓna." Countless Buddhas, The Surangama Sutra
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