quote:

---

Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje

PS Alwayson what happened to Alwayson follows the Dalai Lama? He doesn't buy into that Bon version does he? Not that the Bon version isn't valid; it's just not Buddhist. Just keepin it real wich ya homie. Try to stay consistent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alwayson2

Thats true

So I was always confused why you talked about these "high" teachings anyway.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje

Alwayson, I hope you feel the love. I hope you find your way to the floor.

Michaelangelo, I don't remember arguing with you. I was always arguing with Always... Thought I could help him; he thinks compassion is a wish. I'm sad. He's stubborn and confused with no teacher. I actually practice, which is where I'm going now. I'm told by some that I'm at the path of seeing. I guess that remains to be seen.

I'm in a lot of pain right now...

I'm reminded of a hospital full of nothing but doctors who examine each other until they realize no one is a doctor and everyone is a patient.

Toodles.

PS Alwayson what happened to Alwayson follows the Dalai Lama? He doesn't buy into that Bon version does he? Not that the Bon version isn't valid; it's just not Buddhist. Just keepin it real wich ya homie. Try to stay consistent.

FYI There's no Vajrayana nothing without lineage blessings... Like it or not, all this talk is basically just smoke... I hear the wheels spinnin.

Lineage blessings.

Lineage blessings.

Without lineage blessings there's no starting... no rigpa... no dzogchen... no buddhahood...

The blessings are not a concept, not a method... The Buddha transferred his mind energy to his disciples and on down the line to today. Doubt it, despise it... doesn't matter. They are real. They are powerful. They are very serious, not a joke, not funny; the Dharma Protectors are dangerous. You have to be careful what you say when criticizing any Vajrayana teaching in a public way. Very bad karma comes from it, severe, even deadly. The teachings produce Buddhas, not a cartoon character, a universal dharma monarch.

The appropriate way to engage Vajrayana is with a spirit of open mindedness. Vajrayana is a treasure of humanity, because it is the highest expression of mystic visionary life. Believe it or not Vajrayana is extremely high powered way to purify and awaken in an extremely short period of time. And it's a lot more than just realizing I am That. Buddhahood entails real battles with the hordes of Maras and subduing demons.

Purifying karma all the way is very taxing. The Buddha had his body chopped up in past lives to pay his karmic debts. Lord Jigten Sumgon caught leprosy before his enlightenment. There are many gross stories like this, plagues, infestations, swollen parts, etc. When Buddhahood is close at hand, the body takes a whoopin.... I'm really hoping that having my leg chopped off and my stomach cut open is going to count. It was latched back on and stapled back together.

So people who are willing to become Buddhas are not trying to be rock stars. If they are, they are in for a major can of whoop a**. Those who really undertake the path have to undergo extreme hardships and trials.

The nice thing about Dzogchen is that the purification process is kinder and gentler. The hard thing about Dzogchen is that the lineages are so screwed up that there are not many masters who can transfer the blessings any more. They are there though. With a powerful aspiration one can find them. If you are serious about Dzogchen, better not to talk about it and just find the Guru.

I wish I could explain what I'm going through. I feel like I've been trampled by an NFL team.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje

quote:

---

Originally posted by alwayson2

Thats true

So I was always confused why you talked about these "high" teachings anyway.

---

Because you could be great. I pray you meet your guru.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Christi

Hi Chinna,

In this forum LOL means "Laugh out loud".

Christi

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chinna

quote:

---

Originally posted by Christi

Hi Chinna,

In this forum LOL means "Laugh out loud".

Christi

---

Thanks Christi.

Whilst I'm online, it occurs to me to say that the Western European Breugel-type terrors and demons experienced as mentioned above, turned into African-type terrors and demons and patterns (of which I knew nothing, initially, until I researched them) when I visited southern Africa at the time for work - quite culturally specific to the Ndebele tribe in whose area I was working!

So I wonder if Tibetan Buddhists in the West experience demons (and Rainbow Bodies etc) in Tibetan Buddhist form, or in the local cultural context? If not in Tibetan form, a practitioner might imagine that s/he wasn't experiencing what is described in the teachings, when one really is, but it's just taking the local form.

I am reminded of the Panchen Lama visiting a silent catholic order of nuns of my acquaintance, and speaking of his tradition in their terms. He found the experience of this community so profound that he expressed a wish to be reincarnated as a nun of that community.

I recall another silent order of monks, the most austere of all catholic orders, the Carthusians, where I spent time in several communities in France and UK. I started off feeling quite a fraud, because there was me full of advaita and yoga and kundalini experiences alongside my catholic roots, and wondering how to integrate all this with the perspectives of an Order that glories in having never really changed since its 11th century foundation. I needen't have worried. It became clear to me, from my conversations with the Priors and Novice Masters concerned, that they had just the same experiences, they just used different words, and gave different emphases of their significance. For them, the daily round of the Divine Office, and contemplative prayer, carried them through all the demons and light-bodies without getting lost. Some did in fact use yoga to channel the winds and energies experienced. And siddhis were not uncommon.

The spiritual world is the common inheritance and experience of humanity, seen through different cultural 'spectacles'. How could it not be. Truth is not-two. There is no secret beyond that. When not-two is realised, then everything possible is contained in that, including all the secrets, and will be at some level experienced, the level depending upon the significance that we give it, and the form depending on our cultural context.

"We are already one. But we imagine that we are not. What we have to recover is our original unity. What we have to be is what we are." Thomas Merton

chinna

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
Alwayson what happened to Alwayson follows the Dalai Lama? He doesn't buy into that Bon version does he? Not that the Bon version isn't valid; it's just not Buddhist. Just keepin it real wich ya homie. Try to stay consistent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alwayson2

You thought it was wrong to say that the natural state does not exist.

That was simply my understanding of Jigme Lingpa as read in "Approaching the Great Perfection". Maybe the English translation was wrong or my understanding is off.

I will admit I have not realized the nature of the mind in the Vajrayana sense, because it cannot be done without a Lama.

MY understanding, based on MY study of Dzogchen:

All phenomenon lack inherent essence, including thoughts and emotions.
Therefore simply let emotions and thoughts self-liberate into the present moment, like thieves in an empty house. Or like a snake untying its own knots.
Furthermore thoughts and emotions are merely energy currents in the body.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mikael

quote:

---

Originally posted by Konchok Ösel Dorje
Alwayson what happened to Alwayson follows the Dalai Lama? He doesn't buy into that Bon version does he? Not that the Bon version isn't valid; it's just not Buddhist. Just keepin it real wich ya homie. Try to stay consistent.

---

the Dalai Lama considers Bon as another school of Tibetan Buddhism. New (Modern) Bon is different then pre-Padmasambhava Bon. modern Bon contains every aspect of Buddhism and Vajrayana and Dzogchen. a very profound path that shouldn't be dismissed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by alwayson2

You thought it was wrong to say that the natural state does not exist.

That was simply my understanding of Jigme Lingpa as read in "Approaching the Great Perfection". Maybe the English translation was wrong or my understanding is off.

I will admit I have not realized the nature of the mind in the Vajrayana sense, because it cannot be done without a Lama.

MY understanding, based on MY study of Dzogchen:

All phenomenon lack inherent essence, including thoughts and emotions.
Therefore simply let emotions and thoughts self-liberate into the present moment, like thieves in an empty house. Or like a snake untying its own knots.
Furthermore thoughts and emotions are merely energy currents in the body.

---

quote:

---

Q: Sri Aurobindo believes that the human body is not the last on this earth. Establishment in the Self, according to him, is not perfectly attained in a human body, for Self-knowledge does not operate there in its natural way. Therefore the vijnanamaya sarira [the body made of pure knowledge]1 in which Self-knowledge can work naturally must be brought down on this earth.

M: Self-knowledge can shine very well in the human body, so there is no need of any other body.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ananda

sri ramana maharshi's view on stuff like the rainbow body.

http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0098.htm

quote:

---

Q: Sri Aurobindo believes that the human body is not the last on this earth. Establishment in the Self, according to him, is not perfectly attained in a human body, for Self-knowledge does not operate there in its natural way. Therefore the vijnanamaya sarira [the body made of pure knowledge]1 in which Self-knowledge can work naturally must be brought down on this earth.

M: Self-knowledge can shine very well in the human body, so there is no need of any other body.

---

this is just a little glimpse, read the topic it's good and as always with beloved and beautiful Ramana it's simple.

love you guys

---

quote:

---

The Experiential Transmission of Zhang Zhung
Nyam Gyu Dru Gyal wa’i Chag Tri

Dzogchen, also known as the "great perfection" or "great completion," is considered the path of self-liberation and the highest form of teaching and practice in the Bon Buddhist tradition. For practitioners with the capacity it offers the potential for liberation during a single lifetime and within a single body. Until the late 20th century these ancient teachings were kept secret and offered to very few students of any generation. For all these reasons, attending the teachings can be seen as a precious opportunity for students of Tibetan Bon Buddhism.

For more than a decade now Tenzin Rinpoche has devoted the Serenity Ridge Winter Retreat to teaching from The Experiential Transmission of Zhang Zhung (Zhang Zhung Nyam Gyu). This primary cycle of dzogchen teachings is from the Zhang Zhung Nyan Gyud lineage, which along with A-Tri and Dzogchen is one of the three main dzogchen lineages of the Bon Buddhist tradition.

Geshe Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche received his initial teachings from the Experiential Transmission at an early age from his first root master, Lopon Sangye Tenzin Rinpoche. These teachings served as a foundation for Rinpoche’s personal training, practice, and study, culminating in his completing the traditional 49-day dark retreat. Today they continue to form an integral aspect of Rinpoche’s teachings in the West.

In teaching the Experiential Transmission, Rinpoche draws from a text known as the Chag Tri (Nyam Gyu Dru Gyal wa’i Chag Tri). The Chag Tri has 11 chapters, taught at Serenity Ridge as a five-part series:

Part 1: The Ngöndro. This first part comprises the recitation and instruction of the preliminary practices, or ngöndro. The ngöndro is the authentic doorway through which a practitioner gains entry to the Experiential Transmission teachings and receives the blessings of its lineage holders. Its integrated series of nine preliminary practices help to tame the mind, turn the mind toward the path, and purify the illnesses, obstacles and mental obscurations that obscure the mind’s primordially perfect nature.

Part 2: Introduction to the Nature of Mind. The knowledge and skills learned here are applied in all parts of the cycle to come. In a deliberate and structured way, the Part 2 teachings present the foundational practice of zhiné as the skillful means to develop a calm abiding mind; and give instructions for dark retreat, sky gazing, and sun gazing as skillful means to develop stability in mindfulness. These practices ultimately permit experiences of innate awareness, or rigpa. In turn, when experiences of innate awareness are developed and stabilized in a methodical way through meditation practice, they confirm the direction of the practitioner’s journey and allow it to naturally unfold.

Part 3: The View, Meditation, Behavior, and Result of Dzogchen. Part 3 further guides students in developing inner clarity and integrating what they have learned into their practice and their lives.

Practitioners will explore:

how the base of naked seeing provides the self-introduction and the dzogchen view
how the path of experiencing the clear light is the meditation
how the secondary causes of being challenged to bring every experience to the path are the behavior
how the fruition of developing confidence in the three kayas and finding one’s own place is the result.

Part 4: Removing Obstacles. Here students will receive teachings on how to overcome obstacles to their practice while sustaining and cultivating the results they have achieved during previous parts of the cycle. They will learn and engage in practices that work with the channels, prana and tigle, such as trul khor (Tibetan yoga), tsa lung, and additional support practices drawn from the Zhang Zhung Nyam Gyu, A Khrid and other sources.

Part 5: The Practice of Seven Cycles of Clear Light. During this final part of the cycle, students will receive guidance in tögel (pure vision) meditation and will engage in practices with the sky, sun and darkness. Tenzin Rinpoche will discuss the dark-retreat experiences of various teachers, including his own experiences; and will offer a brief explanation of the seven cycles comprising the traditional retreat of 49 days in total darkness. For those students who have completed Parts 1 through 5 and are ready to engage in the 49-day dark retreat, Rinpoche will be available to give personal, one-on-one guidance.

---

quote:

---

sri ramana maharshi's view on stuff like the rainbow body.

http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0098.htm

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Sri Aurobindo believes that the human body is not the last on this earth. Establishment in the Self, according to him, is not perfectly attained in a human body, for Self-knowledge does not operate there in its natural way. Therefore the vijnanamaya sarira [the body made of pure knowledge]1 in which Self-knowledge can work naturally must be brought down on this earth.

M: Self-knowledge can shine very well in the human body, so there is no need of any other body.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



this is just a little glimpse, read the topic it's good and as always with beloved and beautiful Ramana it's simple.

love you guys

---