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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 1:38:38 PM
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Hi all.
This is a little difficult to explain for me.Its a situation that have been with me for the last two years.Its like a block inside me.
Im all the day thinking about reaching the witness.Since i tasted its bliss,i cant think in other things.
Before,i looked in other things,like other guys:going out in the night,girls,a career,money...all the thing that most people look for and bring them joy.Now,nothing is compared with true self.
Today,i was talking with a proffesional of new-age terapies.He told me about stopping spiritual path.He said,before that,i need go back down to earth.He told me about joinin things like martial arts,or some thing like that for getting both feets on earth again.It made sense for me.I have been two years in my own,following the inner voice of true self.
He told me that for spiritual path is necessary a very strong basis,because in spiritual path you increase day by day your energetic level.He told i have gone far from earth,and thats the reason of my apathy in daily life.Its true,now i dont have friends,because now i dont like past activities like going out at night,drinking,smoking,superficial relations...
He told me i increased my nergetic levels,and now i feel all the things with bigger intensity than before.The good things and the bad things.
He told me spiritual path its for very few people who can support higher levels of energy.And people younger than 40 years he thinks its better not to enter in spiritual practices.
What do you think about this situation and opinions?
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Lacinato
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 3:31:00 PM
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| Wow, that is interesting. I'm wondering what other people will have to say. I know yogani says, go and engage in normal life after your practices, the point is to have a normal life still. And I know that is very important for me. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 4:21:55 PM
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Yes, on the other hand i have that thing called normal life.I have a job,i live with my parents ,talk with them,my brothers,listen music (now im listening the smiths ahhh...it comes from heaven..) i join a teatre group once a week,i go for jogging almost every day...but its not the same.I feel all the time looking in other direction,im not the same person than before.I lost interest in relationships,because now i see there is lot of false personal interests with great intensity...now i see that nothing is forever with more intensity...sometimes i feel like im in a dream,like a nightmare...
Im doing self pacing also, you know...
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Edited by - miguel on Apr 15 2009 4:37:03 PM |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 5:08:45 PM
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Miguel:
I don't agree with everything the New Ager said, such as the age criteria. Then again since enlightenment seems to be rare, perhaps it really is for rare individuals. I hope not, I'm very pedestrian!
But, from this post and others, I tend to agree with it. Plus, if he had any skill as therapist, he probably saw something in you to form that opinion. There are some contraindications of yoga practice and its philosophy.
True, yoga can help becoming more solid and grounded and all that, but it can also tend to accentuate irrational ideation and a magical view of the world that is not too hot. At worse, it can lead to psychic problems.
I would say take a break from it. That is a form of self-pacing. I stopped meditation for a long time. Not a big deal. Then when you come back to it, you'll appreciate more. No loss of progress, if you believe the rap, its all recorded in some causal body somewhere.
I remember a friend who was really into "the path". Short version of the story, it was really a search to grow up, find a mate, and ultimately they became potheads. This is after all the person went through the Guru stuff, blisses, God yaba daba doo, witnessing. So, who to say what your path really is?
-- jo-self
quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Hi all.
Im all the day thinking about reaching the witness.Since i tasted its bliss,i cant think in other things.
....
He told me spiritual path its for very few people who can support higher levels of energy.And people younger than 40 years he thinks its better not to enter in spiritual practices.
What do you think about this situation and opinions?
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2009 : 6:46:52 PM
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Hi Miguel 
All your feelings are perfectly normal..
I also went through the same "symptoms" of lost interest in social things, old friends, etc.
I think it's a phase that will pass once you become firmly centered/rooted in your inner silence.
I spent 2 years living "alone" (although I shared some months with another person), and I cut all my relationships except professional contacts.
I came to a point where I found myself too "disconnected".. I came back to my parents house, feeling grateful for my 2 years of "walking in the desert"..
Now, I'm enjoying grounding activities like dancing.. and I had more work since I got down from the mountain..
As for the age thing that your professional in new age therapies was referring to, it is said that one becomes naturally inclined to become more spiritually oriented around the age of 40-42..
But if the longing and thirst started sooner, why wait?!
Just go with the flow, listen to your inner voice and do what you love..
If you feel you feel better being alone for a while, live it..
If you feel you are floating too much, "join the crowd": this is part of life! we are not nuns and monks after all
It's a game, a dance.. find a balance between both..
You can be in the middle of a noisy place and feel totally in silence and peace inside.. no need to isolate yourself for that..
Anyway, martial arts are great! the more your roots are strong, the higher you will jump!
And remember that the only criterion is joy: whenever you grow up, and experience joy, it's a good sign that you are going on the right way back home..
Love.. |
Edited by - Goddessinside on Apr 15 2009 6:50:17 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 06:28:10 AM
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Thanks friends...
Godess,i liked your post very much.Thanks.
"It's a game, a dance.. find a balance between both.."
Yes,im working in this.That precious balance
Thanks..
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 06:36:54 AM
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I think there is always this seperation in any spiritual work, almost to obsession. When I did my NLP practitioner training I was walking around for a year in a very nice place but feeling a self imposed isolation in a rarified spriritual atmosphere. There is also the difficulty of getting over to others how your state of mind has altered, in effect the new you.
After a year I came back down to Earth, people were used to the new me and things went on as before except my attitude had altered and I was no longer aware of the inner changes. Doing DM has not really altered my life to the same extent, it's more of an add on and any changes are so gradual that I struggle to perceive them or they don't exist. Whichever matters little, I just keep on doing everything I always did and take the D.M tablets as a natural habit because I enjoy it.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 09:32:34 AM
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Hi Miguel
Thanks for sharing
You have gotten good advise from many here.
You know.....when bhakti is strong...it is often difficult to accept the appearant "gap" between the life that is here and the "enlightenment" that somehow always seems to be in the future.
However - your spiritual path is always right where you are
Life is pure intelligence....it will always place you in a setting that holds within it the blend of practises, activities, challenges and outcomes that is optimal for spiritual growth.
Balance is very important. If our bahkti turns into striving or non-acceptance of the moment, then we move further away from the ability to mentally relax. And if we can't mentally relax.....we will also be in physical effort and emotional turmoil....Relaxation is crucial....because only in relaxation is openness possible.
Witnessing is naturally perceived when all is allowed to be as it is....when nothing is rejected (as in "this should not have happened") nor hooked onto (as in "I want that over there and not this"....or..."I want this forever".....).....
Witnessing is what we are. It is not a state to be "reached".....it is already here......when trusting this fact....the striving comes to a standstill. For most of us this happens gradually......and deep meditation is an excellent tool......
To be continuously open and relaxed evolves of itself.....like a fan....first there is a slow down from 3 to 2 to 1...and then the fan gets unplugged....and even then, the fan will keep going...until the momentum of the spin dies down of itself....
What you are going through is a fase....it will pass. However - it is crucial that you do not live in your thoughts alone. Thinking about witnessing is not very silent, is it....
Martial art sounds like a great idea!
It is very important to be physically active, and martial art in addition calms your mind. The inner voice is everywhere....nothing is devoid of Self.....it is simply not possible to "leave the spiritual path"....because spirit...is always what walks....and also the very ground you walk on...no matter where you walk....you can never leave your Self.
To be throrrowly grounded allows for heaven on earth.
Deep meditation twice daily cultivates inner silence. You do absolutely not have to stop this practise because of your age. I was 18 when i first "accidentally" bumped into Yoga, and 24 when I learned meditation for the first time. The practise changed my life at the time, and it still does.
However - between meditation times......it is important to let life live you to the fullest. This means engaging in life - not withdrawing from it. There is no block in you, Miguel. There is only a call for better balance. You will attract new friends if you allow it. These friends will be supportive of your inner life.
Just stay open, and don't avoid relationships. They are challenging, yes......they may "undress" us out of our comfort zone..... but they are also potentially uplifting and nourishing....
Miguel....
The true Self is everywhere.
Your professional new-age therapist advice is sound. Only don't think of it as leaving anything. It is more like opening up to staying where you are.
After all - nothing allows so well for heaven in heart as both feet firmly planted on mother earth.
Keep meditating twice a day.....and enjoylife!
The best of luck to you
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 12:21:29 PM
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Thanks to all for the answers.
Katrine,your post was very comforting.I liked very much to read your words.Thanks.
"Relaxation is crucial....because only in relaxation is openness possible. "
This is my problem.I need more mental relax...But dont know how.
"For most of us this happens gradually......and deep meditation is an excellent tool......"
Do you think DM twice a day is enough?How much time for getting the first stages of the witness and see life in a different way? After lots of years of practice,like you for example,are you witnessing 24/7,each second,or there are gaps of witnessing,or different levels along the day,how it is...if its possible to explain that...?
"it is important to let life live you to the fullest. This means engaging in life - not withdrawing from it."
I have fear of losing my spiritual path if i engange in life totallylike before,and now there is a wall between me and life.It creates mental tension.
Thank you very much.
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Edited by - miguel on Apr 16 2009 12:28:46 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 2:46:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
and now there is a wall between me and life.
and now there is a wall and between me and life and for you that is like what ? |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 3:45:01 PM
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Sorry Karl...i dont understand your question...
I built that wall around me... |
Edited by - miguel on Apr 16 2009 3:47:50 PM |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 4:10:15 PM
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Deep abdominal breathing, regular massage, and orgasm might do you a world of good.
And repeat to yourself, "Its okay to be human, its okay to be a man". And reeeellaaaaaaax.
"Superficial relations".. Haha, you sound like me. Might be time for a change? Maybe life is calling you for a shift in attitude? You'll be okay but perhaps it is time for you to evaluate your life. Not through this 'yoga' lens trip, but through a genuine, sober, human lens. Life is for living surely?
Perhaps it is a good idea to take care of this octave of existence whilst we open to experience others..?
Do you get on well with your father and with other males? Are you comfortable with your own power in life?
Forgive & alert me if I project my own psyche onto you.
You'll be good, miguel, you'll be fine.
Best
Jack
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 4:16:36 PM
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No,no,Jack,you message went very depht inside me(while i was listening bjork)....wow...you are inspired now, man haha..!!!
"Do you get on well with your father and with other males? Are you comfortable with your own power in life?"
Wow,you found the key!
All my life problems with my father (very much authority above me) and other other males too,all my life ...and my power,is somewhere out in the space,lost..
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Edited by - miguel on Apr 16 2009 4:21:11 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 4:23:29 PM
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Wow,ill print this part of your message and put it in my room haha.
[i]"Superficial relations".. Haha, you sound like me. Might be time for a change? Maybe life is calling you for a shift in attitude? You'll be okay but perhaps it is time for you to evaluate your life. Not through this 'yoga' lens trip, but through a genuine, sober, human lens. Life is for living surely?
Perhaps it is a good idea to take care of this octave of existence whilst we open to experience others..?
(Thanks) |
Edited by - miguel on Apr 16 2009 4:32:48 PM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 4:27:38 PM
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| Could you help me with father,males and my own power?any advice? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 6:04:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
Sorry Karl...i dont understand your question...
I built that wall around me...
OK take your time and read this question back to yourself nice and slowly
and... what.... kind..... of..... wall...... is..... that..... wall ? |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 6:27:59 PM
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haha ok,great openings and insights this night.Times are they changing 
Wow,this ayp forum is...special...
what wall was i talking about? hum..dont remember... maybe it was a bad dream..
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Edited by - miguel on Apr 16 2009 7:27:02 PM |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2009 : 10:18:14 PM
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When you experience more advanced states in meditation it is quite normal for ordinary relationships and ordinary activities to appear meaningless and in fact harmful. It is also quite normal and advisable to view the world as illusion-like or like a magic show. True Self, Silence, Emptiness and so forth is in fact more real, not just for giggles. It is better to awaken from misunderstanding into reality.
I must diverge from the advice given here. Samsaric beings will always advise worldly behavior. That is not helpful. My advice to you is to get out of your house and leave your family behind. Attachments like these hinder you progress. Find a good meditation teacher if you can. Be brave. Most importantly generate a strong desire to awaken not just for yourself, but for all beings.
Then again, if what you are are after is to live in a state of bliss for yourself, then carry on this way. If you are interested in enlightenment, then don't listen to worldly advice. Find a qualified teacher. Or carry on with AYP after moving out. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Apr 16 2009 11:18:26 PM |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2009 : 01:10:19 AM
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Hello Konchok Osel Dorje,
What is your opinion on the many householder Tibetan yogins? There seems to be a very long tradition of this in Tibet. Though they all did meditation retreats of various lengths many of them were also husbands and fathers through out their lives. Just curious what you think since you obviously have a lot of knowledge and experience with Tibetan Buddhism. |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2009 : 01:24:05 AM
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| Being spiritual doesn't require to run away and sit under a tree to meditate..! |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2009 : 03:03:08 AM
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| Thanks Oshel,but both feet on the world for the moment in think. |
Edited by - miguel on Apr 17 2009 04:03:13 AM |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2009 : 03:44:43 AM
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Hi Goddessinside,
While this is true, it seemed to have worked for the Buddha. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2009 : 04:01:48 AM
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Hi Miguel
quote:
This is my problem.I need more mental relax...But dont know how.
To actually admit that one doesn't know how is in itself very helpful. In that open acceptance you are able to watch your own state of non-relaxation. You do not have to resign to it.....only to watch it. Like you did in your post here. Silence....the witness....is cultivated through meditation. And from the sitting practices it spreads into daily life.
quote:
Do you think DM twice a day is enough?How much time for getting the first stages of the witness and see life in a different way? After lots of years of practice,like you for example,are you witnessing 24/7,each second,or there are gaps of witnessing,or different levels along the day,how it is...if its possible to explain that...?
How much time for getting the first stages of the witness?
20 min of DM twice daily
The effect of deep meditation is immediate, Miguel. However, every individual is different....so "how much time" before we become aware of the change will vary.....some people notice change right away, for others it takes longer. The more you worry about results, the less relaxation. Just meditate and then go out and engage in life.
The best explanation regarding the witness....and the process of identifying with the witnessing to a greater and greater extent...you will find in Yoganis book:
Self-Inquiry: Dawn of the witness and the end of suffering
Witnessing always takes place 24/7.........it is not something that one does. I become aware of this ongoing silence...when everything that happens (this includes thoughts, sensations and emotions) is seen to be...objects surfacing in the silence. As this observation continues....there is first an intuition...and then a direct experience....of not being these objects. This direct experience is never ending in depth. Going from not being the objects....to seeing that even the objects are what I am. Much like water is water...whether wave or ocean. It never stops...the deepening of this realization. It is not something I achieve.....the instant I conclude like that, I am identified with the object again.
Also....here.....I can be as still as an unrippled sea, and as enmeshed and stubborn as.....the most immature thing  (Just ask my children ) There will always be surfacing of "blind spots" and "issues". It is just that....the silence makes it all so much more evident....so much more sooner....you simply discern what is what.....and the love always beckons.....so the letting go turns into an effortless happening....
quote:
I have fear of losing my spiritual path if i engange in life totallylike before,and now there is a wall between me and life.It creates mental tension.
The wall, Miguel.....is simply this thought: "I cannot engage in life" This is all the wall is....this thought....believed in. Other than that....there is just life Tension is always between "what is"....and the "idea of what is".
You will not engage in life "totally like before". You have already moved from where you were then. Life is always changing. And you are that life
So fear all you want....yet fear not......and act anyway. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2009 : 04:47:26 AM
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Hi Konchok Osel Dorje
quote:
My advice to you is to get out of your house and leave your family behind. Attachments like these hinder you progress.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It comes from your experience and I am sure that of many others.
......I remember all those years.....wanting to "leave the house"....to leave it all behind....in persuit of enlightenment. Yet...leaving and leaving are two different things. Thank God for meditation! It made it possible to "leave" the attachments right were I was. When the "wishing myself away from where I was for all the wrong reasons" stopped....one day it was simply time to leave. It still took courage to leave....but it became possible because it was clear that one thing never changes: ....What is false cannot be made true. To be able to properly discern between the two....took 21 years in that setting. It was worth every second of it. There has been lots of support and openings from great books and profound meetings over the years, yet until "meeting" Yogani here 3 years ago....and Amma last year, I had never had the blessing of a live teacher....much less a satguru.
Yet somehow.....all was well....as it is now too.
The infinite intelligence of Being did not "make a mistake" when I was unable to leave sooner. The setting I was in.....being married and raising children.....was one long sadhana.
If the heart longs for truth more than anything.....it seems here that life have a way of supplying the means. And they may differ greatly....as each individual expresses differently.
quote:
Find a good meditation teacher if you can. Be brave. Most importantly generate a strong desire to awaken not just for yourself, but for all beings.
Amen |
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Goddessinside
158 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2009 : 06:51:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by stevenbhow
Hi Goddessinside,
While this is true, it seemed to have worked for the Buddha.
Hi Steven,
Yep it seemed to have worked for him, but when he came back to see his wife after 12 years, she asked him:
"Whatever you have attained, was it not possible to attain it here in this palace? Can the palace prevent the truth?"
It was a tremendously intelligent question and Gautam Buddha had to agree. He replied, "I could have attained it here, but I had no idea at that moment. Now I can say that I could have attained it here in this palace; there was no need to go to the mountains, there was no need to go anywhere. I had to go inside, and that could have happened anywhere. This palace was as good as any other place, but only now I can say it. At that moment I had no idea. Hence, Buddha asked for forgiveness, because it was never that he did not trust his wife`s courage. In fact, legends surrounding Gautama`s enlightenment also speak that Buddha was doubtful of himself. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2009 : 07:48:27 AM
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"Silence....the witness....is cultivated through meditation. And from the sitting practices it spreads into daily life."
Yes,but i can only do 5 mtes twice a day,and with difficults...its very hard to carry on this little practice.When i begin to go deep,i have to stop because of the time.But i have some little bad feeling along the day with 5 mtes.I tried breath meditation,but its strong also.I dont know.Maybe i have to try 5 mtes once a day.Im going crazy.
Ill tried 10 mtes twice a day since monday,and i have been two days with lots of energy running inside,bad feelings,and in the nights totally like high on some drug...I have returned to 5 mtes...
Self inquiry is a good book.I got it one month ago.
Your explanations about the silnece,witness are beautiful.Thanks Katrine.
"You will not engage in life "totally like before". You have already moved from where you were then. Life is always changing. And you are that life"
Thanks for this also.
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