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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 06 2009 : 09:13:06 AM
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Hi Carson,
Is it possible for you to try to contact these people you hurt and talk to them? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2009 : 11:01:11 AM
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Good day Katrine....Hope you are safely in Dublin by now....
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
That inner voice is and was not the inner guru. The inner guru speaks not. The inner guru simply reveals what is. Wordlessly so. You may have insights....words that come after/during openings.....but these happens after the touch of heart. And they are never judgemental.
 I never meant to imply that I actually thought the voice inside, telling me that I am "evil of heart", was the true "inner guru"....my bad. What I was meaning to imply was that at the time these actions were being taken, I thought of the voice in my head as "the inner guru". Perhaps not in those words, but now having these words as a description I can relate to, I can say that this is how I thought of this inner voice as a child. I felt it was the voice of God, the voice of reason, the voice of Truth, my inner self, whatever you want to call it. I do realize that this was the "SuperEgo" as you have called it, but there were so many years that I thought of this voice as the voice of God, that I still sometimes catch myself listening to it by mistake.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
There are plenty of other inner voices.....a personality is made up of different characters....all according to who we are with at any time.....There will be a recurrent "tone"...a recurrent mode....that makes us feel as an individual. And then there is the inner judge....the super ego. To be under it's spell is very.....tiring.....very jailing. Self-reproaches....inner critics....control....self-gratification....all of it according to a reference-point......all of these are the super ego.
Oh yes...This sounds very familiar. I have had a long standing and co-dependant relationship with my "inner judge". One that probably has not been very positive for me. Ever since I got to the point of realization, the point where I REALLY started to understand the consequences of my actions in the bigger picture, I became the worlds harshest judge of Carson. And then I think I started to enjoy the pain I caused myself. It felt "right" to put myself through personal torture as retribution for all the needless pain I caused those around me. And I think then I started to get an attitude of "poor poor pitiful me" and the likes, which only perpetuated things more. All this is starting to become clearer and clearer to me.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
The thought that I can take my ego/self out of the picture is the biggest veil of all. This thought.....cannot BE anything. Neither does it see anything. So here......the ego/self/super ego is allowed to stay. It is..... after all.... happening within what I am.....and all of it can come and go.........As long as I stay where I am and don't go shopping with it....it has no power. And even when I do go shopping with it...when the basis of inner silence grows in ...depth and strength.....less and less energy is spent on the shopping....the rest....is at rest....so that even the shopping is seen to be within what I am. It is like being enmeshed and not enmeshed at the same time.....and here....this is loved now.
Sounds so wonderfully.....relaxing! Can't wait for more and more layers to fall away so I can feel the peace you are describing 24/7. It's only a matter of time and purification I hope.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I used to think that it was a problem....i harboured an idea that when "moving outward"....this was somehow not as it should be....this was somehow to "not be fully with silence". But on the contrary.....it is easy to "be home" when in samadhi....or intoxicated by the Amrita.....or when wakefully thoughtless by myself......But...the real....vital flowing happens when all is allowed...when always open.....no matter whom I am with or what is happening.....and the thrill of finding out that no matter where "I go"....within everything...within every word, every emotion....I still am as I am. Within everything.....is the fact that contains everything....I am never trapped......never separate....it is such a miracle.....that love is the way it is...
It must be so incredibly liberating to always know, no matter the circumstances, who you really are underneath it all. And to have that knowing as the solid core of your existance.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
It is just like finding out recently that the Aum....the sound that is always here.........I don't have to listen to it! I sat in the sofa one evening....not doing anything....certainly not listening to the Aum....and all of a sudden I was within the sound....as a blue.....expanse.....
Non-doing becoming as powerful, if not moreso, then doing. Wow.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
So...i don't have to listen to it. Because I am in fact already within it...were it not for that....no sound would be here.
You are already within it. So am I. So is everyone. But not everyone understands nor feels this. I know I don't always feel it. Sometimes I do, but often times I am too caught up in the illusion. I understand at least with my mind, but bringing that down to the heart and BEING that realization hasn't happened for me yet. And I don't think this is something I can force. I do my practices everyday, I spend my whole day in mindfullness and self inquiry, and I actively engage in service of others, but I do not have this realization stabalized within my heart. Yesterday though, in the middle of the group DM, I felt a connection to someone else's energy at one point, and this person nudged me to start doing "heart breathing". I've decided that this is a practice that I need to add to my sadhana and hope that this will help to bring some of these mind realizations down to the heart level. Don't know if this will actually help or not, just had the nudge to start doing it.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
So..."to need to Be this" ....if this is believed in...as a project....obscures the fact that I already am as I am. When the idea that I am somehow not what I am is not believed in....then what is left.....is that I am. And then even the idea can stay. Since I am in it too.
Haha....another one of those sentences that I have had to read like 20 times to start to understand....too simple yet too complex. Stripping away all the "fluff" to reach the core. All the "fluff" being that which I "think" I am.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Ok...enough rambling, Carson.
Aw....I was really hoping for more . (no seriously, I was)
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Tomorrow I leave for Dublin....will be gone for a week. I wish you a bright Easter
I hope you have a safe and silent journey in Ireland....May the Love of Christ shine brightly through you.....as always.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2009 : 11:22:51 AM
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Hi Lacinato.....
quote:
Originally posted by Lacinato
I was wronged recently---nothing so bad as rape or murder, but badly hurt all the same.
I am sorry to hear this....I hope you are ok.
quote:
Originally posted by Lacinato
The person who did it said, "I'm sorry, I'm a bad person, I'm a horrible person," and assumed I wanted horrible revenge.
This is similar to how I would act instictually except that I know I can hurt myself much more than anyone else can, so I wouldn't even bother with the "assuming they wanted horrible revenge" part, and would have moved right into hurting myself as justice.
quote:
Originally posted by Lacinato
Luckily, I was so badly hurt that I couldn't afford to be childish. So I wouldn't let the person get away with that belief ("I am a bad person"). I said, no, you're not, that's a cop-out. You did a horrible thing, and now you need to do whatever it takes to become a person that won't do those things ever again. And now, that is what is happening. It is best for us both, and anyone in the future who could have been hurt (but now, won't be--including by me since I'm choosing to not perpetuate the cycle).
Wow....This really hit hard for me. A much more proactive solution then beating oneself up for years to come....focussing on becoming a better person instead. I always knew this was an option, I just never saw it as justified I guess. I think I can see it as justified now. Continue beating yourself up and you are likley to continue to make these same mistake...especially when you start to get caught up in the poor-poor-pitiful-me attitude that can come right alongside it. It is actually probably more difficult to try to become a better person then to just admit you are a bad person and trying to keep it under control. It seems so obvious, yet isn't somehow. I thank you for sharing this with me.
quote:
Originally posted by Lacinato
You're at AYP because you don't want to hurt people again, and you want to make sure you won't. And part of the process is letting go. That helps everyone the most. This series of posts was great to read--and is helpful for me on both ends (having done wrong and been wronged).
Thank you for contributing Lacinato....it was a great help for me.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2009 : 11:31:16 AM
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Hi Lili.....
quote:
Originally posted by Lili
Is it possible for you to try to contact these people you hurt and talk to them?
In some of the situations I am talking about where I have deeply hurt another I am still in contact with the victim, but in some cases I am not. In the cases where I am still in contact, I don't think it is a good idea to bring the past up again. I can't know for sure, but I have a inclination to feel that doing so will only cause more hurt then it will bring resolution. Some of this stuff happened SO long ago, that to bring it all up again would be incredibly painful and likely cause more damage then it would solve. I'm pretty certain that to bring this stuff up again with the victims would only be of benefit to me and would actually hurt the victims again. When harm is done to you, often times we do what is necessary to release this....when we perpetuate harm I think the perpetrators often hold on to the actions much longer than the victims. Especially if the perpetrator becomes fully aware of the consequences of their actions after the fact, and have remorse. This is how it is for me anyways. It is much easier for me to let go of incidents where I am the victim, then to let go of the instances where I am the perpetrator. Maybe it isn't like that for everyone, but it certainly is like that for me. I think this is something I have to learn to deal with from within not without. Unfortunately. Thanks.
Love,
Carson |
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Lacinato
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2009 : 6:21:40 PM
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I'm really glad that helped. I am fine, and getting better--much worse things have happened to others, so all in all, I am quite lucky. I think you are smart to not reopen old wounds.
I know AYP helped me by putting me in touch with my inner witness, and I hope to continue to grow so that I can spread any goodwill I have received, and I am sure you are doing the same--already many of these posts are helping me and others here. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2009 : 11:07:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
In the cases where I am still in contact, I don't think it is a good idea to bring the past up again.
Hi Carson,
I think if you just say one time for 2 minutes to that person that you are really sorry about what you did XY years ago they will feel better. They may be holding on to their grudge on you also and your realization may help them get closure and move on. For instance I think some folks in my previous workplace behaved really bad towards me and never thought of apologizing to me (but admitted some things to other folks in private) which makes me kind of have an even more massive grudge on them. So I think the fact you still keep in touch is actually an opportunity. However not being a shrink or anything can't give a formal advise and stuff so guess listening to your 'inner voice' is better than listening to my rants here. Good luck |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2009 : 11:11:35 AM
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Hi Lili....
In these specific situations I am referring to, I have already said I am sorry in many different ways to these people. Verbally, through action, by changing who I am, etc etc. Going back and apologizing again will just re-open old wounds I think. I think I am releasing this as we speak....it will be a process but I am already integrating it as it happens. Thanks for your advice.
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2009 : 4:38:12 PM
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Hi Ether
quote:
I think what I thought was a "positive" inner guru voice, is really me quickly translating to words what the inner guru is showing me. So that makes it even easier to distinguish.
That's great, Ether
Yes....mind will translate...that is it's job. And in the translation...something will be lost. But to be shown has a very specific.....wordless...imageless quality to it. This quality has its own taste....and the more we heed it, the easier it is to recognize it. To then act on what we are shown to be true.....this cleans our taste buds further and allows for deeper and deeper communion.
So to be able to discern is crucial. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2009 : 4:48:25 PM
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Hi cosmic troll
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
So..."to need to Be this" ....if this is believed in...as a project....obscures the fact that I already am as I am. When the idea that I am somehow not what I am is not believed in....then what is left.....is that I am. And then even the idea can stay. Since I am in it too.
Cosmic troll said:
quote:
Wow, this blew my mind! Thank you for this, Katrine
Thanks for receiving yourself Cosmic |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2009 : 04:38:20 AM
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Hi Carson
Hope you had a lovely Easter
quote:
I do realize that this was the "SuperEgo" as you have called it, but there were so many years that I thought of this voice as the voice of God, that I still sometimes catch myself listening to it by mistake.
I hear it too.....and sometimes still listen......there will always be portions of it.........but luckily.....hearing it and listening to it are two different attitudes
quote:
And I think then I started to get an attitude of "poor poor pitiful me" and the likes, which only perpetuated things more. All this is starting to become clearer and clearer to me.
Yes......the mind will feel itself weak when not speaking, see. So it will do anything to avoid that feeling......pain and the stories around it...carries power.....and mind will feel powerful this way. Positive...negative.....anything is better than feeling the weakness......this is how mind avoids emptyness.
quote:
It must be so incredibly liberating to always know, no matter the circumstances, who you really are underneath it all. And to have that knowing as the solid core of your existance.
The funny thing is....that it is the not-knowing that is the liberation. I do not at all know who I am underneath it all. The peace comes of itself from having given up the desire to know. It is.....the freedom of being able to relax.....like......eyes closed and leaning my head on the shoulder of Life.
It is the Trust that is the liberation. It enables one to relax. And this is it really....in that openness life can flow unhindered.
There is still forgetting here, Carson. 24/7 is a relative gauge *lol*.....the depth of realization is bottomless 
quote:
I understand at least with my mind, but bringing that down to the heart and BEING that realization hasn't happened for me yet.
But it has, see.....
quote:
I understand at least with my mind
Just let this drop of itself |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2009 : 11:02:16 AM
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Namaste Katrine!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Hope you had a lovely Easter
Thank you Katrine....it was a wonderful few days filled with bliss, light, opening and friends. It was a time of deep growth to be sure. I hope Dublin was the same....
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I hear it too.....and sometimes still listen......there will always be portions of it.........but luckily.....hearing it and listening to it are two different attitudes
Yes for sure. It's like trying to get rid of thought....it should not really be the goal....thoughts are not the issue, it's the attaching to thoughts that is the problem.....same as it should not be the issue of trying to silence the negative voices in the mind, but instead the goal should be to stop attaching to what the voices are saying. I can see this, thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Yes......the mind will feel itself weak when not speaking, see. So it will do anything to avoid that feeling......pain and the stories around it...carries power.....and mind will feel powerful this way. Positive...negative.....anything is better than feeling the weakness......this is how mind avoids emptyness.
Yes, this makes much sense to me. I can almost "see" my mind freaking out sometimes when the silence is strong....but personally those times are easy to deal with. It's the times when I am not so "aware" and my mind goes nuts and I follow it like a small puppy that are the problem. I guess it is all a matter of staying "aware" more and more often. And that is happening....slowly but surely.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
The funny thing is....that it is the not-knowing that is the liberation. I do not at all know who I am underneath it all. The peace comes of itself from having given up the desire to know. It is.....the freedom of being able to relax.....like......eyes closed and leaning my head on the shoulder of Life.
Mmmmmm.....sounds so wonderful.....and liberating....
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
It is the Trust that is the liberation. It enables one to relax. And this is it really....in that openness life can flow unhindered.
Yes, I can see this. Trust in the all-knowingness of God, in His capabilities.....Trust that He has it all under control and knows what is best for each and every one of us. I need to stop trying to control everything.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
There is still forgetting here, Carson. 24/7 is a relative gauge *lol*.....the depth of realization is bottomless
Yes of course....the journey never ends Thank you.
Love,
Carson |
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B1-66ER
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2012 : 4:17:21 PM
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quote:
I find myself wishing I could see karma retributed, or have an opportunity to at least hash out a resolution myself,
You are seeing karma retributed...upon yourself. When bad things happen it is our karma, though karma does not seek things like justice. Karma is Law in the same way that gravity is Law, it operates the way it does because that's the way the universe can continue to function as it has been created. Karma is the law of Love, that behind the veneer of seperate forms we are still all one. Being "in Love" is the reflection of this Truth off the mirror of duality (created reality). When you are receiving someone elses negative karma it is because it is your karma to receive their karma. What matters now is whether or not you receiving their karma is on account of their bad karma or on account of their good karma. This is determined by your reaction-whether or not you will transmute the negative effects of their ignorance (compassion) or proliferate it by creating more negative karma yourself. So, the next time you find yourself wishing for retribution check yourself, are you really that seperate from this person, or would the angel of justice be visiting your house that same night for the same reason. |
Edited by - B1-66ER on Apr 23 2012 4:29:42 PM |
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The desire for justice
