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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 30 2009 : 11:12:47 PM
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| The root of suffering is ignorance. Wrong-doing is ignorance. Whenever ignorance is present, bliss is not, but suffering is. Just have compassion for them and do what you can to help circumstances. All I hear you saying is that you are still bothered. Do what you can without thought of your reward. This is the path to escape the cycle. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2009 : 11:48:28 AM
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Namaste Katrine and thank you for your post....
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
First of all.....it is great that it comes up in meditation. This is a blessing.....it is working it's way up and out....for inspection between meditations...and eventually dissolving. So....it is not so much that you need to get rid of injustice.....or to enact justice......it is rather.....seeing...what draws this issue to your attention? Just look at it ......why are you so attracted by it.....what makes it so compelling....
It's different depending on the situation that is arising at the time. Some of these situations deal with myself being unjustly treated, and some deal with me having unjustly treated some others. Often times I think what is compelling is the shame and the power of self pity, and sometimes I think it is the anger and the power of negative emotion that is so compelling. So breaking it down once more, I would have to say that the underlying cause for not letting go would be the enjoyment of feeling powerful. Wow. Thanks for coaxing that out. Never saw it like that until I wrote it. Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I hear you say:
quote:
The difference is that I don't usually feel that it is me in particular that is wronged. It is injustice itself that bothers me regardless of the entity involved.
and
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"Every so often I run into a situation where I feel completely wronged, with no possibility for resolution". No possibility for resolution meaning that I can no longer communicate with this person. They are either dead, in another country, I have lost track of them, I never knew them in the first place, or they are in prison.
Justice......seems rather relative then.....doesn't it.....are you sure it has a life of it's own?
Well you see there is more then one type of situation coming up in meditation. There are both the injustices done to me, and the injustices I have done to others. The first quote was my way of alluding to the fact that some of the need for justice is pointed at myself. Like I have said, I have done some dispicable things in the past. Things I would not forgive another for doing. Things it is hard for me to discuss because it brings up serious hatred for myself that is actually quite justified. At least WAS quite justified. But regardless, I still feel extremely angry with myself for what I have done to a few specific others. And these are the situations where I feel that drudging up the past will only benefit me, and will actually hurt the other person more. So I just have to deal with this anger for myself some other way.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
So.....is it possible......that this is actually all about you?
Isn't everything? Haha, but seriously, yes of course this is basically all about me. All about me trying to let go of things I feel need to be ratified somehow, even though it is impossible to do. It is all about me. I am selfish.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Can you be absolutely sure that it is not first and foremost you who feel unjustly treated?
Yes, I do feel in a lot of ways that I got a raw deal. But in a lot of ways I feel very lucky as well. It is hard to find balance sometimes I guess. It is hard to BE balance sometimes I guess.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And if it is possible...that this lies at the core of the whole issue.......what happened......all those years ago.....for you to feel prolongly (oops...maybe not a word...oh,well :-) wronged in this way? (You don't have to answer this publicly  )
Perhaps...When I young my father was a banker. Because of this we would move from small town to small town every year and a half to two years as he got promoted and transfered. When I was halfway through grade 1, I was forced to move away from my best friend of two years, and change schools in the middle of the year. The new town I moved to was the hometown of the band Nickelback (ugh). It had 3,000 people in the whole town. Almost all of which had been born there. Most children had formed tightknit groups of friends by the age of 4 or 5. I was a complete outsider from the get go in this town. I struggled from grade 1 until halfway through grade 9 to fight my way into being accepted by anyone around me. I was beaten up, teased, tricked and made fun of, and literally fought tooth and nail in every aspect of my life in order to maintain some kind of respect for myself. I played hockey (everyone did) and was very good even though I was the smallest guy on the team every year. I pushed everything to the limit in order to try to be the "best" and try to earn some kind of respect from my peers. By grade 9 I was starting to gain some respect. I had started fighting back and had won most of them, and had become quite a bad ass being the town drug dealer and the first person to get tattooed in the whole school. (there was only 1 school, kindergarten to grade 12 all in one building. 1200 kids) Anyways, halfway through grade 9 my family was transferred again. This totally made me lose it. It felt like everytime I got my roots dug in, they were ripped out from under me. It only took me a few months after moving to my new city to leave home, get a job and start a life on my own. This caused some financial hardships and I often felt that I got a raw deal in this area too because all my friends lived at home until their mid twenties, saving money, buying houses, and here I am, still living paycheck to paycheck because I chose to go it on my own at an early age. Choices I know, but it can be hard not to feel jipped sometimes. Sorry for this terribly long rant.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
This comes forward here:
Anthony de Mello says:
quote:
"It is not by what you do, but by what you are that you will be judged"
You say:
quote:
This makes me feel a little better because I know my heart. My heart and my "being" as AdM says above, are of pure intention. I may slip and make mistakes...scratch that, I DO slip and make mistakes but my heart is in the right place. This I know.
Yes. It is, Carson. And it has always been this way.
Unfortunately this is not true. My heart has NOT always been in the right place. In the past I have done things I knew were very wrong at the time, and I still chose to do them. I knew my actions were deeply hurting others, I knew that the scars would last a lifetime, and I did them anyways. Purely because I am selfish and care only about my own satisfaction. I am greedy and desire-filled and sometimes I feel like my outside looks nice, but the inside is a garbage filled void. This is not pretty, and is very hard for me to say out loud.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Very early on....when we are not mirrored for who we are.....we suffer from the lack of true seeing in our parents and caretakers.
I would love to place the blame on someone else like my parents, but it is not their fault in anyway. These situations in particular were my fault 100%, and I even knew it at the time. This is why it is so hard for me to forgive myself, or to let go of wanting to beat myself up over this.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
The preciousness we are in essence are almost never mirrored back to us ....instead ....the mistakes are focused on. It is indeed by what we do that we are judged. Not by who we are. In the past here...in this life...the mistakes were judged out of proportion....so.....something about your "justice obsession" smells familiar.....
Yes, the need for justice is reflected all around....it is hard to escape it. The media in particular is terrible. Just watch 10 minutes of Fox news. I can't do it anymore. (watch the news)
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
But the design of our lives.....is the way it is. So.....in hindsight......all the "injustice" suffered here for many years growing up in a difficult setting.....all that......without that.....who knows if I would be here enjoying this forum today? The unawareness that is being burnt away......The joy of waking up.......the bliss of deeper communion with what is.....in this.....all previous "injustice" is set free.....as being the very manure that made growth happen.
This last line brought me to tears instantly. It is hard to accept that the injustices I have perpetrated have worked for the good in that it has led me to where I am today. I feel so terrible for having good come of this for me.....what about for the others I have hurt? Have my evil actions worked for the good there too? Even if it has, it is hard for me to accept my past actions as anything less then entirely disgusting. And to hate myself for them.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Whenever someone "doesn't care"....it is because they are not aware of the consequences of what they are doing. If aware....it would not have happened.
If only this were true Katrine.... I was aware. And I still didn't care enough to stop myself. I knew the consequences, long term and short term, (at least for the other person) and I acted anyways. I can't blame my actions on not being aware.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
In experience here....it is seen that the universe is not hapazard...neither in actions...nor in essence. What happens is always happening within an intelligent design. To be at war with this design is very......tiring...to say the least. Yet....at war we are...as long as we ar not aware of that which is the hidden message within every issue. And to be aware.....we need to take it home. Not do-change it.
Well, this is a hard lesson then. One I fear may take lifetimes for me to learn. I hope not.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
How do I learn to let go of my need for justice for others I have harmed in the past?
Be compassionate towards the one that was not seen for what he is. The one who's heart is in the right place.
Be compassionate towards the unawareness. Meditation enhances compassion
I will try Katrine. For my own sake. I need to stop carrying this burden of hatred and anger, for myself and others. Thank you for taking the time to post advice for me. Thank you.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Mar 31 2009 11:51:05 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 31 2009 : 1:00:03 PM
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Holy Moses Shanti! Thanks for the uber long post...haha. If I didn't know better I'd say we were in a competition for who can write longer posts....haha, just kidding.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
You have not wronged yourself by not forgiving yourself you are wronging yourself by punishing yourself for a memory.
I am not punishing myself for a memory, I am punishing myself for acting on some terrible intentions. Knowing the consequences full well.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
If another human came and told you some wrong they did in their life and was sorry for what they had done.. what would you tell them?
That I love them anyways.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Show yourself that same kindness. Why is it that we judge ourselves so harshly, but any other soul who may have done the exact same thing we think it was OK?
I wouldn't think that any other soul that had done the same stuff as me was OK. I don't even know if I could forgive that person either. Not if the situation was the exact same and they acted the same way as me. I would probably hate that person as much as I hate myself for what I have done in the past.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
http://www.aarpmagazine.org/health/...ur_pain.html
Stop the Abuse
Katie: "Our most intimate relationship is the one we have with our own minds," she said. "I was in terrible shape till one day I realized a simple thing. When I believed my own thoughts about myself, I suffered. When I didn't believe them, I didn't suffer. Everything changed for me after that day."
"Thoughts are like children," she continued. "They're gonna scream till we pay attention. When we do, and put these beliefs to certain questions, thoughts we've believed 40, 50, 60 years—the worst, stressful thoughts—get popped. It takes a lot of courage. But isn't it time to get real? Haven't we conned ourselves long enough?"
"Are you ready to do The Work? Be brutal! If we don't question what we believe, we're destined to live it out.""
Can you turn around your statement above? Can you stop the injustice of judging yourself and hurting yourself over a memory?
I don't know if I can stop punishing myself for my past actions. And again it is not the memory of what happened that I am beating myself up over, it is the lack of control I exhibited in some situations.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Can you let go the memory?
No. I don't think I will ever be able to let go of the memory. Some memories never fade.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Can you stop imagining what or how the other person who you think you did injustice to or who did some form of injustice to you thinks and feels?
Again this is hard. I can and am trying to not impose thoughts or feelings on the victims of my injustices, but this is hard. It is easier to let go of imposing thoughts and feelings on those that did injustices to me because I often feel it is deserved. In one way or another. Karma can be a b@#$%. There are a few instances where I feel wronged completely, and these still appear occasionally in meditation, but in those cases it is easier for me to let go. They still seem to come to mind occasionally but I don't suffer as badly from these as I do from the instances where I was the perpetrator and not the victim.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
You can only be responsible for your own thoughts.
Sometimes I can't even be responsible for those! haha
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
A lot of our suffering comes from thinking we know how the other person felt/feels now.. but we can not be sure of that.. we can only be sure of our thoughts right now.. and right now you are not doing any of those things.. so can you let go that memory? It does not mean you don't do anything.. if you want do something about the injustice.. then do it.. but not out of guilt or anger? Make amends from a place of peace.
This is why I have such a hard time letting go. I can't make ammends. Not any more then I have tried to in the past without re-hurting the victims. It is hard to find resolution because of this.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
http://www.odemagazine.com/doc/51/byron-katie
Are you saying we should accept things as they are—even when there's injustice —and stop arguing with reality?
Byron Katie: “Not at all. We can’t accept things as they are, as long as we believe that they should be different. We can try to think positively till we’re blue in the face, but beneath the thoughts we want to believe are the thoughts we are actually believing, thoughts such as ‘I’m not good enough’ or ‘My husband should listen to me’ or ‘People shouldn’t suffer.’ When we question these stressful thoughts with the four questions and turnaround of The Work, we find our own truth. We begin to live in reality, not in our thoughts about reality. We begin to see that it’s possible to live without stress, anger, and sadness. And when we do, we become part of the solution, not part of the problem. Are you concerned about injustice? Where are you unjust in your own life? Take care of that first, by questioning your thoughts. The Work always leaves us kinder, happier human beings.”
This is where I am finding that The Work isn't helping me. My turnaround here would be: I SHOULD have taken these harmful actions. Because I did. But I can't accept that. The pain I have caused was unjustified in EVERY way. It happened, but it should not have. And yeah, I know I am using that terrible-fighting-with-reality-word, "should". But it is true. And I can absolutely know this. What happened should not have happened.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Yes.. we all carry our loads.. how much energy is wasted in carrying our past with us.
How much is learned? Is it worth the energy (and is the energy really wasted) if we are learning from the journey? If we can somehow make ammends with ourselves by carrying this unnecessary burden?
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
You also have the part about amends right.. I have quoted Nithyananda before..heal yourself, then let the healing flow out into the world.. before that you will only be imposing your ego on others.. and they will react with their ego. When you heal and work from a place of no ego.. the reaction of the other is very different.. you will experience this.. you already have to some degree.. it just gets better.. opens more.. and more. Then you do without any expectation, your actions will be from your heart and will not have an agenda of forgiveness or guilt or piousness.
My veil is thick today. I don't see how to approach some of these situations without ego. Without shame, guilt, anger, etc etc. The maya is strong.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Not by harboring negative feelings for those who have harmed me, no. But by harboring negative feelings for myself for harming others, well maybe. Hmmm....I guess I am not solving anything, but more preventing future harm to others maybe?
Future? Can you be sure about that?
By holding on, I can ensure that the mistakes I made in the past are always fresh in my mind and I will not make them again.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Future is imagination. There is only now. How do you feel now?
Ashamed and guilty.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Can you drop the negative feelings "now"?
Honestly, no. Right now I can't. I wish I could say yes, but I can't say that honestly right now.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
This is how I see forgiveness. With "the work" I have come to realize, there is never anything to forgive, because it is what it is.True forgiveness in my mind comes when you are at a place where you can say.. it's all fine exactly as it is. When you do not trigger an ego response (hurt/angry/disgusted/despicable) by bringing up up a memory, you have truly forgiven.
I don't know if I can ever let go of what I have done. I don't know if I will ever have no ego response when I think about my past. I don't know if I can truly forgive myself.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Forgiveness IMO is a very egoic word.. when I say I forgive you.. my ego is happy.. "I am above you.. that even though you hurt me.. I am better than you and I will pardon your misgivings".. Or when I say.. "I can never forgive you".. my ego is again sitting there with pride.. "I am above you.. and you cannot get away with treating me the way you did"... So in both cases.. forgive or not forgive is very ego driven. The real release will come when you are at a place (that can be reached with meditation and self inquiry) from where you look at the situation and say.. "There really is nothing to forgive or not forgive. It is what it is."
But both of those statements are only when YOU are hurt. What about forgiving yourself when you have hurt someone ELSE? Is there still lots of ego enmeshed in that?
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
With Yoga and self inquiry.. you come to realize.. that karma is going to unfold.. it is up to us how we want to live through it. We can resist and hold on to our illusions of control.. or let go and accept things as they come. We learn to see a situation .. and accept it and move on.. or cling onto it and suffer. Any situation.. good or bad, that comes our way, when accepted from a central/neutral place.. where .. you don't have to love it (if it is not a good situation).. and yet you don't have to hate it. It is just there.. it is what it is.. and it is your choice to accept and let go.. or resist and let the negative feelings build.
I don't see it as cut and dry as you do I guess. Perhaps I am too close to these situations.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Yoga will not change the world.. that is not what it is there for (although it may.. not sure..).. but it will change YOU.. your perspectives on life.. the way you see the world.. And now I am going to say the words you really dislike (sorry!!).. "Everything is perfect as it is"... How? Because it "is".. Reality of all the bad in the world is just "there".. and like I said.. yoga will teach you to be at a place where you don't have to love it.. and yet don't have to hate it.. be centered.. and from this place.. where you look at things without either extreme feelings attached.. you can take action and do things that are not affected by attachment or aversion.
I understand this all with my mind I guess. But it is very hard for me to just accept the things I have done in the past as "just being". I still have this intense need to punish myself over and over again for this. Perhaps this is because this is the only thing I can control in these situations now. I don't know for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Not sure if this helps at all. But this has helped me a lot.. There were times I have said I forgive so-and-so.. but I realized.. every time I thought of all the wrongs that happened.. it still got back feelings of hate, sorrow, hurt, "why me?".. Well then, that was not forgiveness.. till I came to a point when I realized everyone is doing the best they can with their life, including me.. and the situation is what it is.. and I have a choice of opening, accepting, letting go and moving on.. or clinging on.. I chose the first.. wasn't easy.. but once you "get it" .... there is no turning back.. it becomes second nature.. (Try it with small things that annoy you at first..)
I think it would help me greatly to know how if other people I have hurt feel the way you say you do above. If THEY have moved on, or if they are still stuck holding onto the pain I have caused them. I think I partially hold onto these feelings of hatred for myself because I don't know for sure that the victims have been able to move on or not. And in case they haven't, I don't want to move on myself. How can I feel ok with what has happened if they don't? I don't know that I can.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
A couple of techniques that helped me a lot when I was having a hard time letting go.. maybe they will help you (altho they are from a point of view of a victim, you can apply it to any situation.. finally we are all victims of the ego.. be it the big ego or little ego.. ):
This one was from emc:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1756#13810
quote:
Originally posted by emc
Sit down, close your eyes, go down into deep breathing and see yourself walking on a small road in a landscape. The sun is shining, fields are all around, birds fly in the sky. Walk there for a while until you feel at ease. You walk along the road and far away you see someone coming. You see them getting closer and closer but the picture is blurry. When they get close enough you see it is a child or some children coming towards you. Notice what state the child/children are in. What is the expression on their faces? What are they doing? When you have them there in front of you, you can ask them whatever you want, depending on what you see. I promise they will all have important things to tell you! They will reveal what you still carry around. And you can chose to listen to them, feel with them, and then if necessary comfort them in anyway you want. One possible sentence is "You do not have to carry that anymore. I now know how you feel, and I can carry it for you". This has been a very powerful tool for me to get to know myself. It is awareness SEEING WHAT IS, and then it burnes away more easily.
I will try this. I like that the idea is using children or a child to explain what I don't need to carry any more.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
And this one from Christi:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1756#13982
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
I was also abused as a child, physically and psychologically. I carried it around for a long time, with a lot of anger and then depression. I knew that all I had to do was let go, but I never seemed able to. Then one day I did it . I thought I would write here what I did. This is a bit weird, so please just ignore it if you think it is too weird, or inappropriate . But it is a clear account of what happened in my case.
I sat down to meditate one day, but I could not concentrate because I kept thinking of the people who had abused me. This happened often. So I decided to give up even trying my usual meditation, and try a visualization instead. So I imagined myself on one side of a beautiful sunny field. On the other side of the field was one of the people who had abused me slightly in my past (start off slow). We both had bodies, but actually we were in our soul forms, and we were just projecting the bodies in order to play out this dance. In the visualization, we had both actually died, and left out earth lives behind, and were meeting again as a reconciliation process. We had played out our individual dramas and games, made our mistakes and learned all our lessons and now it was time for forgiveness and love. We ran towards each other, across the field (like on the movies) and fell into each others arms like we were brothers/ sisters that had not seen each other for years. We hugged each other and silently forgave each other for everything that had happened on earth. Then I would repeat the visualization with someone who had abused me quite a bit. Then again with someone who had abused me a lot. Each time it would get easier, and feel easier to forgive. Then I did it with the person who had really abused me for years (that was quite hard, but I could feel the love flowing between our hearts). Finally I did it with myself. That feels like a really important bit- I'm not quite sure why.
I wish I could send this to the people I have hurt for them to try. tear tear.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Also this website from
MIRACLES
Miracles are those moments...
When we forgive ourselves
And our brothers completely.
By doing so...
We defeat the power of our ego,
Allowing the Holy Spirit
To help us correct our misperception.
At that moment,
We hear the voice of God.
Time collapses...
We feel peace and love.
In His perfect light and truth,
We see differently.
This is beautiful, thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
The Top 10 Misconceptions about Forgiveness
1. Withholding forgiveness hurts the other person.
The truth is: Withholding forgiveness hurts yourself.
2. Forgiveness is a passive endeavor.
The truth is: Forgiveness is a very active endeavor, where you can ultimately reach out in love and compassion to the other person.
3. Forgiveness lets people off the hook, so they aren't accountable to their actions.
The truth is: Forgiveness and accountability are not the same topic. You can have both. Forgive another by offering empathy and unity; yet still uphold the process of accountability within the social structure.
4. Forgiving someone tells that person that whatever he or she did was acceptable with you.
The truth is: Accepting their actions and accepting their true nature underneath it all are two very different things. You can make that clear.
5. Forgiveness is for the other person.
The truth is: Forgiving another is an act we do for ourselves, to free ourselves from the pain or bitterness.
6. When you are forgiving, you are "pardoning" someone's bad behavior.
The truth is: There is no "pardoning," just a clearer perception on who that other person truly is, and what they can still provide to your life, to a community and to a society.
7. Forgiveness is done by saying the words "I forgive you."
The truth is: Forgiveness resides not only in words but also in thought, feeling and action.
8. Forgiving another person doesn't do any good really.
The truth is: It not only uplifts you AND that person in ways unseen, but it brings that much more light to a world in need.
9. Forgiveness is only for religious people.
The truth is: It's for all of us walking the planet.
10. It's too hard to forgive.
The truth is: It can be hard, but not too hard, not when you have the right support and perspective.
Wow....This one really hit home for me. They were all written from a victim standpoint, but they apply just as much to the perpetrator as the victim. Wow. Thank you Shanti....learning and growing as I write.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
OK.. now you will be ready to forgive just to get me to stop!!!
Haha, thank you for taking the time to post such an in-depth and well rounded response to me. I am forever thankful for the support and loving advice I receive from this community.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Hope some of this helps. So much energy frees up when you can just let go the clinging onto the past. You cannot go back and change the past.. it happened exactly as it was supposed to.. and so is this moment.. happening exactly like it is.. stay here.. I got this a few days back.. just be here.. it is safe.
Thank you....Much love.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Mar 31 2009 1:10:00 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 09:41:34 AM
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quote:
And again it is not the memory of what happened that I am beating myself up over, it is the lack of control I exhibited in some situations.
Is it happening now, the lack of control in a situation, is it happening right now?
If it is not now.. then it is the past=memory and future=imagination.
"Thinking" in the awake state is the same as "dreaming" in the sleep state.
quote:
I don't know if I can stop punishing myself for my past actions.
Well if you have made up your "mind" then you are not leaving room for much "no-mind" (silence) are you?
quote:
I think it would help me greatly to know how if other people I have hurt feel the way you say you do above. If THEY have moved on, or if they are still stuck holding onto the pain I have caused them.
You can never know.. even when they tell you.. it is their memory of that moment that they will repeat.. not what was actually happened.
quote:
Is it worth the energy (and is the energy really wasted) if we are learning from the journey?
Are you learning? You are reliving something from your past..a memory .. like in a dream a lion chasing you.. you are running for your life, your heart is beating fast and you are sweating and running as fast as you can, but the lion is getting closer, and you fall and hurt your leg and the adrenalin is pumping and the lion almost jumps on you and You wake up.. scared, heart pumping, sweat pouring down your face.. ahhh.. it was just a dream.. similarly, wake up.. wake out of the dream (thoughts from the past).. it is not happening now..you are not learning anything by beating yourself up.. see through the story your mind is spinning.. all of us reading here can see it.. you are so attached to the stories, so close to the situation, that you cannot see them.. take a step back.. it really is all OK. When you drop the mind attachment to the story, the energy wasted in beating yourself up will become free to heal you and then you can make amends from your center and you will be surprised at how ego-less and unattached to the outcome you will be. You are doing great Carson.. if all this does not make sense right now, its fine, it will become clearer as you continue. Hope the techniques I quoted by emc and Christi above helps.
quote:
This is where I am finding that The Work isn't helping me.
Sometimes the mind has decided on an answer and it is hard to break the pattern of thinking.. so taking a break from the technique for a bit or asking the question in a different way may help. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 10:20:40 AM
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Few more words from Anthony de Mello.
http://www.soulwise.net/99adm04.htm
To drop illusions, to see things, to see reality. Every time you are unhappy, you have added something to reality. It is that addition that makes you unhappy. I repeat: You have added something . . . a negative reaction in you. Reality provides the stimulus, you provide the reaction. You have added something by your reaction. And if you examine what you have added, there is always an illusion there, there's a demand, an expectation, a craving. Always. Examples of illusions abound. But as you begin to move ahead on this path, you'll discover them for yourself.
For instance, the illusion, the error of thinking that, by changing the exterior world, you will change. You do not change if you merely change your exterior world. If you get yourself a new job or a new spouse or a new home or a new guru or a new spirituality, that does not change you. It's like imagining that you change your handwriting by changing your pen. Or that you change your capacity to think by changing your hat. That doesn't change you really, but most people spend all their energies trying to rearrange their exterior world to suit their tastes. Sometimes they succeed - for about five minutes they get a little respite, but they are tense even during that respite, because life is always flowing, life-is always changing.
So if you want to live, you must have no permanent abode. You must have no place to rest your head. You have to flow with it. As the great Confucius said, "The one who would be constant in happiness must frequently change". Flow. But we keep looking back, don't we? We cling to things in the past and cling to things in the present. "When you set your hand to the plow, you cannot look back". Do you want to enjoy a melody? Do you want to enjoy a symphony? Don't hold on to a few bars of the music. Don't hold on to a couple of notes. Let them pass, let them flow.
The whole enjoyment of a symphony lies in your readiness to allow the notes to pass. Whereas if a particular bar took your fancy and you shouted to the orchestra, "Keep playing it again and again and again", that wouldn't be a symphony anymore.
Another illusion You are all those labels that people have put on you, or that you have put on yourself. You're not, you're not! So you don't have to cling to them. The day that somebody tells me I'm a genius and I take that seriously, I'm in big trouble. Can you understand why? Because now I'm going to start getting tense. I've got to live up to it, I've got to maintain it. I've got to find out after every lecture "Did you like the lecture? Do you still think I'm a genius"? See? So what you need to do is smash the label! Smash it, and you're free! Don't identify with those labels.
That's what someone else thinks. That's how he experienced you at that moment. Are you in fact a genius? Are you a nut? Are you a mystic? Are you crazy? What does it really matter? Provided you continue to be aware, to live life from moment to moment. How marvelously it is described in those words of the gospel "Look at the birds of the air they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns . . . Consider the lilies of the field . . . they neither toil nor spin". That's the real mystic speaking, the awakened person.
So why are you anxious? Can you, for all your anxieties, add a single moment to your life? Why bother about tomorrow? Is there a life after death? Will I survive after death? Why bother about tomorrow? Get into today. Someone said, "Life is something that happens to us while we're busy making other plans". That's pathetic. Live in the present moment. This is one of the things you will notice happening to you as you come awake. You find yourself living in the present, tasting every moment as you live it. Another fairly good sign is when you hear the symphony one note after the other without wanting to stop it.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 12:41:36 PM
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Hello Shanti my friend....
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Is it happening now, the lack of control in a situation, is it happening right now?
If it is not now.. then it is the past=memory and future=imagination.
"Thinking" in the awake state is the same as "dreaming" in the sleep state.
I understand what you are saying, but if I went and raped or murdered someone, knowing full well what I was doing, just saying to myself that I made a mistake but I shouldn't carry the guilt with me anymore, just seems very, very wrong to me. And some of the stuff I did is no less immoral then raping or murdering someone. Some actions done in full awareness seem to me like some sort of penence(sp?) is required to sustain remorse. I feel like if I let go of the memories of these actions that I am more likely to fall into old patterns again. Does that not seem logical?
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
I don't know if I can stop punishing myself for my past actions.
Well if you have made up your "mind" then you are not leaving room for much "no-mind" (silence) are you?
Yes, this would be a conscious decision. But as I explained above, holding onto these memories serves a purpose. A positive purpose in many lights. A negative purpose in some others too I admit. But do the negatives outweigh the positives? I'm on the fence.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
I think it would help me greatly to know how if other people I have hurt feel the way you say you do above. If THEY have moved on, or if they are still stuck holding onto the pain I have caused them.
You can never know.. even when they tell you.. it is their memory of that moment that they will repeat.. not what was actually happened.
This makes me feel the need to hold on that much more. If I can't know that they have released these memories, then how can I feel ok about letting go of them myself? If I murder someone, and his family can't forgive me, what right do I have to forgive myself? I struggle with this every day.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Is it worth the energy (and is the energy really wasted) if we are learning from the journey?
Are you learning?
Yes. I am learning every moment that I have made some terrible mistakes and that I can never make these mistakes again. And I am learning about the mechanisms of the mind as I study my own mental trappings.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
You are reliving something from your past..a memory .. like in a dream a lion chasing you.. you are running for your life, your heart is beating fast and you are sweating and running as fast as you can, but the lion is getting closer, and you fall and hurt your leg and the adrenalin is pumping and the lion almost jumps on you and You wake up.. scared, heart pumping, sweat pouring down your face.. ahhh.. it was just a dream..
There are a few things I would like to say here. First, I understand that I am not my thoughts, and that my thoughts do not define "me". But the actions I took in the past were not a dream. They were very real. And they have very real, very lasting consequences. Both for me and for the victims.
Secondly, while reading this I realized that part of my problem with this all is that when these memories reappear, sometimes I don't react with instinctual disgust. Sometimes it gets the old emotions and adrenaline going as they were back then. And this scares the S@#$ out of me! This makes me want to hurl myself off a cliff, or at the very least puke my guts out in pure disgust with myself. This again is very hard for me to openly admit. I don't know how to deal with this.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
similarly, wake up.. wake out of the dream (thoughts from the past).. it is not happening now..you are not learning anything by beating yourself up.. see through the story your mind is spinning.. all of us reading here can see it.. you are so attached to the stories, so close to the situation, that you cannot see them.. take a step back.. it really is all OK.
I don't see this. I understand that you can all see the layers of maya wrapped around my skull, but how on Earth is it "really all OK?" There are people that are still hurting from my past actions. This is NOT ok with me. And since there is nothing I can do to stop their pain, is it really fair for me to just "let go" of beating myself up over these past actions? (Not my thoughts over my past actions, but over the past actions themselves.)
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
When you drop the mind attachment to the story, the energy wasted in beating yourself up will become free to heal you and then you can make amends from your center and you will be surprised at how ego-less and unattached to the outcome you will be.
I guess my biggest obstacle is that I don't feel like I deserve to be "healed". I really don't. Not today anyways.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
You are doing great Carson.. if all this does not make sense right now, its fine, it will become clearer as you continue. Hope the techniques I quoted by emc and Christi above helps.
I tried emc's technique after my evening meditation last night and it was pretty much impossible. The child wanted me to let go and I couldn't. She wanted to hug me and I couldn't. I cried a lot. Will see what happens in the future with it I guess.
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
This is where I am finding that The Work isn't helping me.
Sometimes the mind has decided on an answer and it is hard to break the pattern of thinking.. so taking a break from the technique for a bit or asking the question in a different way may help.
Yes, the mind has it's "mind" made up. Stuck in patterns, but sometimes it's concious. So much to learn. Thanks for helping.
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 3:31:52 PM
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Hi Carson
Thanks for sharing from your past. You certainly had to work hard to gain your stand, didn't you. Power was essential for your survival...
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Katrine
Whenever someone "doesn't care"....it is because they are not aware of the consequences of what they are doing. If aware....it would not have happened.
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Carson wrote:
If only this were true Katrine.... I was aware. And I still didn't care enough to stop myself. I knew the consequences, long term and short term, (at least for the other person) and I acted anyways. I can't blame my actions on not being aware.
If there is not enough awareness present..... to light up all the workings of an interaction......then the summa sumarum.....is.... that you were in fact not aware, Carson. You knew perfectly well what you were doing (including some consequences)....agreed......but you acted anyway. This is because of unawareness. We do not know who we are......we do not act from here.......
quote:
Unfortunately this is not true. My heart has NOT always been in the right place. In the past I have done things I knew were very wrong at the time, and I still chose to do them.
Your heart is always in the right place. These actions were not done from heart. Had you been in heart....you would not have acted this way.
quote:
I would love to place the blame on someone else like my parents, but it is not their fault in anyway.
I do not speak of blame. The fact is that most of us grew up with unaware parents. My children too. I was surrounded by lots of knowledge....but much less awareness.
quote:
These situations in particular were my fault 100%, and I even knew it at the time.
Here a poem from 2004:
Paradox
It's not what I don't know
that deprives me of happiness
It is what I think I know
My existence is littered
with all this spam,
while what's not
fits the space of a dot
I do not know who I really am
I only know what I'm not
Blaming....faultfinding....these motivations lead nowhere but in a circle.
quote:
I can't blame my actions on not being aware.
Good!
Has blame ever, ever, ever accomplished anything? Anything remotely freeing?
Blame perpetuates crime. Out there. And in here. Anything that bind you to a story is perpetuating non-awareness. It fills up the pure space.....and dims the shine of now.
quote:
I understand what you are saying, but if I went and raped or murdered someone, knowing full well what I was doing, just saying to myself that I made a mistake but I shouldn't carry the guilt with me anymore, just seems very, very wrong to me.
Tell me something, Carson.....I understand the above is a general example.....
but whenever you did those despicable things that you hate yourself for.....when this was happening.....did you feel the pain that you do now?
If not....when did you become painfully aware of your actions?
And now that you are made aware through pain....would you still repeat these actions?
If not.....then why can you not forgive yourself?
Don't you see that.....if you are truly sorry.....every cell of the universe knows of your state......
Are you afraid....that without the strength of your self-hatred.....of the guilt....without the power of your pain.....you will be weak.....and "sin again"? Is that it?
Do you not trust yourself to act from awareness once the "strength" of those compelling stories is out of the way? Do you think them wiser than the light shining? Do you think yourself wiser... ...I know I do....
If it is anything like this....then see the intelligence of flowing with life. First - pain was needed in order to make you aware. Now....letting go of that pain..those stories... is needed in order to make you aware.
True strength....true power......is awareness.
This fase....these issues....will pass, Carson
I feel it slipping off itself already......
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 3:42:48 PM
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Carson
We cross posted
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 4:04:41 PM
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Hello Katrine and thank you for your kind, loving post. Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Thanks for sharing from your past. You certainly had to work hard to gain your stand, didn't you. Power was essential for your survival...
I have fought tooth and nail my entire life. Fighting reality mind you, but yes, it has been a long hard fight the whole way. It makes me tear just writing that sentence.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
If there is not enough awareness present..... to light up all the workings of an interaction......then the summa sumarum.....is.... that you were in fact not aware, Carson. You knew perfectly well what you were doing (including some consequences)....agreed......but you acted anyway. This is because of unawareness. We do not know who we are......we do not act from here.......
I think I understand what you are saying. If I was aware of the way I feel now I likely would not have acted as I did. Is that it? That is correct. The shame, the guilt, the pain now outwieghs the benefits gained in the moment. By far. If I had been fully aware of this I would not have acted. I think this is what you are saying and yes, this is true. I acted out of partial awareness. My actions were very very wrong though.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Your heart is always in the right place.
Well, technically yes...haha...but spiritually?.....well I guess underneath it all nothing has changed except that some priorites/values have shifted....the veil has lost a layer or two. You are probably right.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
These actions were not done from heart. Had you been in heart....you would not have acted this way.
Very right. Had I been in the heart at the time I would not have acted. I was acting from primal instinct, desire, hatred etc etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I do not speak of blame. The fact is that most of us grew up with unaware parents. My children too. I was surrounded by lots of knowledge....but much less awareness.
So what difference does it make then if we are all surrounded by lack of awareness? How does that excuse anything? How does that CHANGE anything?
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Here a poem from 2004:
Paradox
It's not what I don't know
that deprives me of happiness
It is what I think I know
My existence is littered
with all this spam,
while what's not
fits the space of a dot
I do not know who I really am
I only know what I'm not
Very appropriate, thank you. You have a wonderful way with poetry and words. I truly do not know who I really am, and I do know what I am not. But I only know what I am not today. I do not know what I will not be tomorrow. And that is why I hold on to stuff like this. Reminders of what I want not to be.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Blaming....faultfinding....these motivations lead nowhere but in a circle.
Agreed.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Has blame ever, ever, ever accomplished anything? Anything remotely freeing?
I don't know about freeing, but it has definitely accomplished....stuff. Me blaming myself reminds me of how I don't want to feel and motivates me into postive action. So it may not be directly positive for me in the short term, but it is positive for others around me which ends up being positive for me in the end. I kinda see through this though as I write it. I dunno.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Blame perpetuates crime.
I don't know if I agree. There are no absolutes right? Exceptions to every rule?  *shrugs shoulders with questioning look on face*
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Out there. And in here. Anything that bind you to a story is perpetuating non-awareness.
Again absolutes I don't necessarily buy into. Probably a lack of insight on my part. Almost sure of it
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
quote:
I understand what you are saying, but if I went and raped or murdered someone, knowing full well what I was doing, just saying to myself that I made a mistake but I shouldn't carry the guilt with me anymore, just seems very, very wrong to me.
Tell me something, Carson.....I understand the above is a general example.....
Not really. Some of my actions are on par with rape and murder.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
but whenever you did those despicable things that you hate yourself for.....when this was happening.....did you feel the pain that you do now?
Yes and no. I felt confused. There was pain yes. The pain of doing something you know you will regret, (that you actually regret WHILE doing) but doing it anyways. There was also excitement and exhileration and a pure rush. I think what I hate myself for is enjoying it. And getting reminders of how good it felt even today.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
If not....when did you become painfully aware of your actions?
The pain became acute when it was over.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And now that you are made aware through pain....would you still repeat these actions?
I hope not. I would like to say no, but at the time it happened I would have said I wasn't capable of it either. But I was.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
If not.....then why can you not forgive yourself?
Because I know the pain I caused others through my actions is still very active today and I don't feel it is fair for me to move on before they do.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Don't you see that.....if you are truly sorry.....every cell of the universe knows of your state......
No. I don't see this. Doesn't mean it isn't true, just means I don't see it right now. My own fault I know.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Are you afraid....that without the strength of your self-hatred.....of the guilt....without the power of your pain.....you will be weak.....and "sin again"? Is that it?
ABSOLUTELY. This is it in a nutshell. Without the guilt fresh in my mind I am scared that I will become weak again and go back to old patterns/habits/ways.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Do you not trust yourself to act from awareness once the "strength" of those compelling stories is out of the way?
No, not particularly.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Do you think them wiser than the light shining? Do you think yourself wiser... ...I know I do....
Sorry Katrine but I don't understand this....I don't consider myself wise at all though if that is what you are asking.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
If it is anything like this....then see the intelligence of flowing with life. First - pain was needed in order to make you aware. Now....letting go of that pain..those stories... is needed in order to make you aware.
Yes, I bet you are right. I am not ready to let go yet I don't think. These are old wounds that will take me time to release. I am just realizing that this needs to be directly dealt with and I can't hide from it. I have kept this stuff hidden in the closet for a long long time.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
True strength....true power......is awareness.
Absolutely. Need some awareness.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
This fase....these issues....will pass, Carson
I feel it slipping off itself already......
Thank you for your encouragement Katrine. I am deep in the maya because of these surfacing issues of old. I can use all the "shaking up" I can get.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Apr 01 2009 4:12:30 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 4:17:43 PM
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Just one more thing.....
quote:
Secondly, while reading this I realized that part of my problem with this all is that when these memories reappear, sometimes I don't react with instinctual disgust. Sometimes it gets the old emotions and adrenaline going as they were back then. And this scares the S@#$ out of me!
Yes.....
Carson.....you know how we are both human and divine......
The powerful pull of our human nature.....the pull that drags us away from God/Silence/Awareness.......this pull is present in all of us. It is good that we are never complacent about this. To never think that we have somehow "conquered" maya.....
But.....the pull from all the urges of our physical existence.....the purpose it serves seen from the "life of Maya"....is self-prolonging. This pull....knows that the more aware we become.....the closer to death is it. And it resists. It kicks. In the most alluring ways.
Still.....nothing beats awareness. So first and foremost....it is the clarity....the silent mind....the emptyfull heart.....that is the saviour of our souls. Not our strategies.
And your heart is big Carson.
Keep nourishing that in you which lets through the shine. Listen. And listen beyond that again. Don't be so set on what you know. Conclude less, and flow more. Moment to moment.....so that next time an image from the past surfaces......let it come fully forward......let all the pain come forward.......don't listen to the talk about it......listen way beyond that....let the reactions you are afraid of come forard too.....and stay open. Look at it.
After all.....human nature.....is nothing without it's holy core.
Not one finger could be lifted without the power of it's holy core. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 4:24:12 PM
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| We cross posted again I think |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 5:10:30 PM
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Carson
quote:
So what difference does it make then if we are all surrounded by lack of awareness? How does that excuse anything? How does that CHANGE anything?
It motivates one to become aware. And this accomplishes the ability to not fight with what is....to flow with it instead....so that our divine nature can act out it's inherent beauty and implicit GOODNESS.
quote:
But I only know what I am not today.
All days are today-days...so this is enough knowing, Carson.
quote:
I do not know what I will not be tomorrow.
This is correct. Get used to it
quote:
And that is why I hold on to stuff like this. Reminders of what I want not to be.
When you know what you are not......and act not from what you are not......then what you are is revealed of itself. It happens of itself. No strategies are needed.
If you hold on to stuff....you are holding on to what you are not....you are acting from what you are not. This is the "thinking yourself to be wiser than the shine".
quote:
If I was aware of the way I feel now I likely would not have acted as I did. Is that it?
Yes. But also.....if you were aware period....you would not have acted as you did. Your actions would have come from what you are instead of what you are not.
quote:
Me blaming myself reminds me of how I don't want to feel and motivates me into postive action.
Yes....this is good. Pain is profylactic.....we grow wiser when we feel the consequences directly. But why lable it "blame"......why create this whole story around something that really needs no words? It is enough that you know directly...and act on this direct knowledge. .....swooosh...and away with all the words...
Blame perpetuates crime....because the story of it fills up the space where clarity and love flows.
There are no absolutes....but the Absolute
quote:
I hope not. I would like to say no, but at the time it happened I would have said I wasn't capable of it either. But I was.
The day i start thinking that i am beyond unaware actions in this human body....huff og huff......let's pray that won't ever happen......if pressured...if tempted.....God knows what we are all capable of.....
Also......we are loved by the divine, Carson. The intelligent design that is life......it will see to it that we continue to grow. In any way it sees fit.
quote:
Because I know the pain I caused others through my actions is still very active today and I don't feel it is fair for me to move on before they do.
You are not an island, Carson. These people.....they have their own road to walk. Why deprive them of your awakening? They need you aware. They might think they need you to be guilt ridden.....but no light shines from guilt....
Better post now......you have probably said....or are about to say... something |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 5:22:52 PM
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No. Have not said anything. Am just absorbing right now if that is ok. Will probably have more to say in the morning after a good meditation, some grounding, some food and the company of a spiritual friend I haven't seen in years. (about to go for coffee with her right after I leave work and have a "sit") Thank you Katrine for all your wisdom. You cut right to the heart of the matter. Sometimes your words are a little over my head though and this is why I need to take some time to absorb. Much to learn still. Thank you for being patient with me and my ignorance. I know it is strong some days.
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 5:30:19 PM
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To absorb is beautiful, Carson.
Enjoy the company of yourself with your friend tomorrow
Am finding my pillow now.
PS. I never found you ignorant...nor do I think of myself as patient |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 7:09:55 PM
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Hi Carson,
I second Katrine's reply. Sound counsel indeed. One nuanced addition, nothing beats 'awareness' and 'the Love of Source'.
Realize this Carson. Each of us is a spark of Love and Light. We are all 'part' of Source. In each and every moment, our beautiful beloved Source wants to help us, wants to love us completely providing everything that is necessary to bring us Home. Everytime something gets stirred up inside us ... a pattern, an emotion, a belief, whatever ... it is an opportunity, a facility given to us to get closer to Source by letting the Love work. So why is this not our experience? We prevent it through our ways and habits, through our control and strategies, through our lack of trust and gratitude, and mostly through our lack of recognition and understanding of what is available to us in each and every moment. Even so, Source's love, help and embrace is always poised waiting to be given in an instant, just waiting for even the smallest crack in our armour to let it in.
In addition to our developing inner silence cultivated through DM, shifting our attention from mind-ego to Self through self-inquiry etc. and allowing the Silence to radiate forth through samyama, the one most overlooked and 'possibly' most effective avenue of help in situations like this when we are stirred-up inside and nothing seems to be working is a 'prayerful Heart'.
When we give up our strategies and control and as 'a prayerful Heart' offer up to Source the images, emotions and patterns that get stirred up within ourselves, asking Source to remove and replace them with the Love and Light ... something beautiful can happen. When done properly, from the vantage point of being situated 'in Heart, coming from Heart', one can actually feel the emotions, blocks, that which binds us loosening, rising up and out of our being through the crown and beyond dissolving while simultaneously experiencing a downpouring of Love and Light through the crown into the heart filling the space left behind. It is freeing and expansive. There is a sweetness and gentle caring embrace that holds and supports us as we are hugged by Source. As we allow this to occur, our joy, gratitude and trust naturally grow deeper fueling the process creating a bigger opening for Source's Love and Light to work even better.
In the beginning, our vantage point of being situated 'in Heart, coming from Heart', does not have to be perfect for who of us is that far along. Source takes us wherever we are and uses whatever opening we provide, even the smallest and tiniest because we are loved completely.
But we as Heart do have to initiate it. We have to make the call.
When we choose Source as our first priority, the Love and Light teaches us directly through our innermost Heart. That does not mean that 'stuff' does not come up. But when it does, what do we choose? ... the problem, the stuff or Source ... When we choose Source, the real meaning of forgiveness and forgiving can be revealed and realized in a way that truly fills our spirit and being quenching 'our desire for justice' or any other disturbance coming up for removal.
Moreover, as we choose Source, the Love and Light helps to free not only ourselves but those who we have hurt and those who have hurt us. We are all learning and have all made mistakes. I too have hurt others. Did you think you were alone in that? The question is do we continue to make the same mistake over and over or do we learn from it. And what do we do? As we judge ourselves, we judge others. As we hold onto the past, we prevent the present moment from revealing all that it is. As we attempt 'to do' and control according to our old habits and ways, we prevent the Love from being able to fully help us and radiate with complete freedom to others. You have recognized your mistakes and are sorry for them. You have learned from them. Once that's done there is no need to dwell on it and beat yourself up. Source wants your open heart not your continued penance. Source wants to love you, to touch and change every part of your being into Love until the pure Love of Source radiates freely without limitation to all life and all beings everywhere. We are all part of the blessing.
Dear brother, I thank you for sharing so much of yourself in this forum. It is helping all of us. So much love for you.
Love and Light,
Steve |
Edited by - Steve on Apr 01 2009 9:09:06 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 10:54:28 PM
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Wonderful post Steve, so full of "trueness", the heart felt good reading it.
quote:
You have recognized your mistakes and are sorry for them. You have learned from them. Once that's done there is no need to dwell on it and beat yourself up. Source wants your open heart not your continued penance.
Couldn't agree more, make a mistake, accept it, learn from it, resolve to do it differently next time and let it go. <-- for you Carson. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2009 : 10:56:52 AM
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Hello Katrine.... I have taken an evening to reflect and I am ready to continue to discuss. I think I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel....
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Carson.....you know how we are both human and divine......
Yes...too well. Frustrating sometimes actually.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
The powerful pull of our human nature.....the pull that drags us away from God/Silence/Awareness.......this pull is present in all of us. It is good that we are never complacent about this. To never think that we have somehow "conquered" maya.....
Yes, I try to stay as humble and as realistic as I can. Knowing that I have a LONG way to go still, and likely always will.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
But.....the pull from all the urges of our physical existence.....the purpose it serves seen from the "life of Maya"....is self-prolonging. This pull....knows that the more aware we become.....the closer to death is it. And it resists. It kicks. In the most alluring ways.
Yes, I can see my mind kicking and screaming the whole way out. Good thing I am used to fighting my way through everything! Haha.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Still.....nothing beats awareness. So first and foremost....it is the clarity....the silent mind....the emptyfull heart.....that is the saviour of our souls. Not our strategies.
Yes....so true, as is everything you say.... The mind strategies will not solve anything....letting go with the mind and approaching from the heart will help to solve this problem...I'm sure you are very right.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
And your heart is big Carson.
According to the doctors an enlarged heart is a BAD thing....kidding.... Haha.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Keep nourishing that in you which lets through the shine.
Yes of course....There is nothing that can keep me from my practices.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Listen. And listen beyond that again. Don't be so set on what you know. Conclude less, and flow more. Moment to moment.....so that next time an image from the past surfaces......let it come fully forward......let all the pain come forward.......don't listen to the talk about it......listen way beyond that....let the reactions you are afraid of come forard too.....and stay open. Look at it.
Scary....but necessary I'm sure.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
After all.....human nature.....is nothing without it's holy core.
Not one finger could be lifted without the power of it's holy core.
God is in everything....even if you don't notice. Thank you.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Apr 02 2009 10:58:40 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2009 : 11:26:02 AM
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Katrine.....
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
quote:
So what difference does it make then if we are all surrounded by lack of awareness? How does that excuse anything? How does that CHANGE anything?
It motivates one to become aware. And this accomplishes the ability to not fight with what is....to flow with it instead....so that our divine nature can act out it's inherent beauty and implicit GOODNESS.
Yes....I can see a little clearer today....I can see that the place acted from in the past is NOT at the core of my being. Even though some of the actions I regret were made as early as the age of 3 and I used to choose to think that the conditioning at that age could not be strong, and that any "evil" actions at an age that young must indicate an "evil" heart....but now I realize that even at that age I was totally veiled in illusion and unawareness and hatred, and that these actions were not taken from the "holy core" that still exists within me today. I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone but me, but it does to me.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
quote:
But I only know what I am not today.
All days are today-days...so this is enough knowing, Carson.
Yes, I see your point...But I think you missed MY point. What I was trying to indicate, probably not very well, was that I fear that if I "let go" of the past completely, that not having these terrible memories will make it much easier for me to fall prey to old thought patterns and desires. But as I write this I can see that this won't happen. So perhaps you did get my point after all.... I can see that if I put myself in similar situations to what I was in in the past, I would not act as I did before. Even if I let go of the guilt over the past. I will never be able to "forget" the past. But I think I can let go of the attachment to "beating myself up" and still maintain enough presence to not make the same mistakes again. It is hard to know for sure though....the pull of human nature is strong sometimes.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
When you know what you are not......and act not from what you are not......then what you are is revealed of itself. It happens of itself. No strategies are needed.
This paragraph took me about 15 reads through to start to get an understanding of this concept. I think I get it now. When you strip all the stuff that you are not, away.....you are left with the "revealed" self......the true Self...the eternal Self...the inners silence that permeates all existance. Too much to process today....
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
If you hold on to stuff....you are holding on to what you are not....you are acting from what you are not. This is the "thinking yourself to be wiser than the shine".
Yes, yes... I see now what you were meaning about being wiser than the shine....The wisdom that pours from your mouth astonishes me sometimes Katrine.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
quote:
If I was aware of the way I feel now I likely would not have acted as I did. Is that it?
Yes. But also.....if you were aware period....you would not have acted as you did. Your actions would have come from what you are instead of what you are not.
And the wisdom keeps on coming....and coming...and coming! Haha.....so lucky to have you hear to guide and advise....I feel very forunate...very lucky to have this community to turn to...
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
quote:
Me blaming myself reminds me of how I don't want to feel and motivates me into postive action.
Yes....this is good. Pain is profylactic.....we grow wiser when we feel the consequences directly. But why lable it "blame"......why create this whole story around something that really needs no words? It is enough that you know directly...and act on this direct knowledge. .....swooosh...and away with all the words...
There's nothing to really say....you say it all and the silence is a better response then anything I could write. Just want you to know how hard all this is hitting home.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Blame perpetuates crime....because the story of it fills up the space where clarity and love flows.
Yes, I can see tha blame tainting the True Self now....the maya was very thick the past few days...
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
There are no absolutes....but the Absolute
Absolutely! Haha.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
The day i start thinking that i am beyond unaware actions in this human body....huff og huff......let's pray that won't ever happen......if pressured...if tempted.....God knows what we are all capable of.....
Like you said....we are all both human AND divine....Sometimes the human wins out....It's all about decreasing the amount of "playing time" the human part gets.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Also......we are loved by the divine, Carson. The intelligent design that is life......it will see to it that we continue to grow. In any way it sees fit.
Even at the expense of others I am learning. This is a hard lesson though. I can handle personal pain, but pain inflicted on others by myself is hard to deal with.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
quote:
Because I know the pain I caused others through my actions is still very active today and I don't feel it is fair for me to move on before they do.
You are not an island, Carson. These people.....they have their own road to walk. Why deprive them of your awakening? They need you aware. They might think they need you to be guilt ridden.....but no light shines from guilt....
*****silent awareness******
The best response I have.
Love,
Carson
P.S> THANK YOU!
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2009 : 1:54:31 PM
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Namaste Steve my friend.....
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Realize this Carson. Each of us is a spark of Love and Light. We are all 'part' of Source. In each and every moment, our beautiful beloved Source wants to help us, wants to love us completely providing everything that is necessary to bring us Home. Everytime something gets stirred up inside us ... a pattern, an emotion, a belief, whatever ... it is an opportunity, a facility given to us to get closer to Source by letting the Love work. So why is this not our experience? We prevent it through our ways and habits, through our control and strategies, through our lack of trust and gratitude, and mostly through our lack of recognition and understanding of what is available to us in each and every moment. Even so, Source's love, help and embrace is always poised waiting to be given in an instant, just waiting for even the smallest crack in our armour to let it in.
Yes....such a beautiful paragraph....It is tiring, putting so much effort into keeping the Source at a distance. Your words speak deep truth to me.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
In addition to our developing inner silence cultivated through DM, shifting our attention from mind-ego to Self through self-inquiry etc. and allowing the Silence to radiate forth through samyama, the one most overlooked and 'possibly' most effective avenue of help in situations like this when we are stirred-up inside and nothing seems to be working is a 'prayerful Heart'.
Yes...This I believe I have. Most of the time anyways. The prayer on my heart every 'present' moment, is that my very presence would be an outlet for God's grace to others. That I would be a tool for God in whatever way he sees fit. This is the prayer that is constantly in my heart.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
When we give up our strategies and control and as 'a prayerful Heart' offer up to Source the images, emotions and patterns that get stirred up within ourselves, asking Source to remove and replace them with the Love and Light ... something beautiful can happen.
Beautiful release....
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
When done properly, from the vantage point of being situated 'in Heart, coming from Heart', one can actually feel the emotions, blocks, that which binds us loosening, rising up and out of our being through the crown and beyond dissolving while simultaneously experiencing a downpouring of Love and Light through the crown into the heart filling the space left behind.
Yes...this is for sure, pure grace....
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
It is freeing and expansive. There is a sweetness and gentle caring embrace that holds and supports us as we are hugged by Source. As we allow this to occur, our joy, gratitude and trust naturally grow deeper fueling the process creating a bigger opening for Source's Love and Light to work even better.
A perfect description....spoken with the wisdom of experience....thank you. I pray that one day soon I feel this release and opening.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
In the beginning, our vantage point of being situated 'in Heart, coming from Heart', does not have to be perfect for who of us is that far along. Source takes us wherever we are and uses whatever opening we provide, even the smallest and tiniest because we are loved completely.
Yes for sure....like I said at the beginning of this post....it takes some serious effort to keep the Source out. It's pretty darn persistant. I'm just so used to fighting everything I think....it's instinctual.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
But we as Heart do have to initiate it. We have to make the call.
The burden of Free Will..haha
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
When we choose Source as our first priority, the Love and Light teaches us directly through our innermost Heart. That does not mean that 'stuff' does not come up. But when it does, what do we choose? ... the problem, the stuff or Source ... When we choose Source, the real meaning of forgiveness and forgiving can be revealed and realized in a way that truly fills our spirit and being quenching 'our desire for justice' or any other disturbance coming up for removal.
It really is a choice. I have been concious of this all along. The beating up of myself was not unconcious. But I feel I understand why I can stop now. Now it's just a matter of action.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Moreover, as we choose Source, the Love and Light helps to free not only ourselves but those who we have hurt and those who have hurt us. We are all learning and have all made mistakes. I too have hurt others. Did you think you were alone in that? The question is do we continue to make the same mistake over and over or do we learn from it. And what do we do? As we judge ourselves, we judge others. As we hold onto the past, we prevent the present moment from revealing all that it is. As we attempt 'to do' and control according to our old habits and ways, we prevent the Love from being able to fully help us and radiate with complete freedom to others. You have recognized your mistakes and are sorry for them. You have learned from them. Once that's done there is no need to dwell on it and beat yourself up. Source wants your open heart not your continued penance. Source wants to love you, to touch and change every part of your being into Love until the pure Love of Source radiates freely without limitation to all life and all beings everywhere. We are all part of the blessing.
I'm pretty much speachless Steve. Speachless and teary-eyed.
"Source wants your open heart not your continued penance."
*****silence*****
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Dear brother, I thank you for sharing so much of yourself in this forum. It is helping all of us. So much love for you.
I humbly thank you for all you have said Steve. Your words hit home hard. Much love to you my Brother.
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2009 : 08:44:39 AM
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Hi Carson
quote:
and that any "evil" actions at an age that young must indicate an "evil" heart....but now I realize that even at that age I was totally veiled in illusion and unawareness and hatred, and that these actions were not taken from the "holy core" that still exists within me today. I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone but me, but it does to me.
Carson......dear friend......noone is evil in heart. To have lived with such a burden for so long......to think that even as you were 3 years old you were "twisted" at the core.....
::
::
....it reminds me of how I was brought up......one of my caretakers repeatedly told me that my character was frailed....you know, that I was born with a twist.....at fault from the start, you could say....and for years I believed it (how can we not?).....
.....you know, we project what we believe into the world.....we seek confirmation of that image.....and then when that doesn't give the satisfaction....we create a new image...and seek to confirm that....and this is the circle....round and around.....
quote:
Yes, I try to stay as humble and as realistic as I can. Knowing that I have a LONG way to go still, and likely always will.
See....the thing is......that only each moment counts. A LONG way......is just a story, isn't it.....it matters not, does it.....a long way ....or a short way......all that matters is the moment at hand. So....every time you are just present.....this instant is IT. Everything is already here, Carson.
quote:
But I think I can let go of the attachment to "beating myself up" and still maintain enough presence to not make the same mistakes again. It is hard to know for sure though....the pull of human nature is strong sometimes.
Yes...you know, I am every inch as selfish as you are Carson. Every inch as stubborn. So much we do for our self-interest. Often....even charity is for that. Our sadhana....our search.....all driven from self-interest. So..... Our nature is what it is. It is whether we are awake to it or not that matters If we can be still......watch....observe....and like this directly touch it with awareness.
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Katrine
When you know what you are not......and act not from what you are not......then what you are is revealed of itself. It happens of itself. No strategies are needed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carson said:
This paragraph took me about 15 reads through to start to get an understanding of this concept. I think I get it now. When you strip all the stuff that you are not, away.....you are left with the "revealed" self......the true Self...the eternal Self...the inners silence that permeates all existance. Too much to process today....
....*lol*.......sorry, Carson.....*lol*.....sometimes I am not very clear am I....Yes. You got it. When all the stuff that I am not is touched by awareness.....I am revealed as I am...
quote:
I feel very forunate...very lucky to have this community to turn to...
I do to
I unlearn much from communing here......hipp hurra !!! .......heart is so free when it experiences itself as completely ordinary......not outstanding in any way......all the energy is freed to enjoy instead.....and even though all the different happenings are taking place just as they always used to......the sacredness is in everything....as it always was,is and will be
quote:
Even at the expense of others I am learning. This is a hard lesson though. I can handle personal pain, but pain inflicted on others by myself is hard to deal with.
I think it is Mooji that says: "The universe is not vindictive....it is corrective"
When the arrow penetrates deep into your heart.....in that pain....you become alert, Carson. And this goes for the ones "you" hurt too. It is never a one-way street......the pain....it is not to hurt you......it is to make you aware.
May you be at peace this Easter |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2009 : 11:00:42 AM
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Good morning Katrine....(for me, good afternoon/evening for you I guess....)
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Carson......dear friend......noone is evil in heart. To have lived with such a burden for so long......to think that even as you were 3 years old you were "twisted" at the core.....
Yes...the maya was very strong for me, even as a very young child. It honestly wasn't until I started smoking pot at about age 12 that the veil started to lift even just a little bit. Up to that point I was probably as deep in illusion as one can get. And quite honestly, I was loving it. Didn't care about anyone but myself, didn't care about anything but personal gratification, yet at the same time was a devout Christian and would spend my days at school and such "witnessing" to my peers..... I was very confused and conflicted as a child. Likely still am I suppose.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
....it reminds me of how I was brought up......one of my caretakers repeatedly told me that my character was frailed....you know, that I was born with a twist.....at fault from the start, you could say....and for years I believed it (how can we not?).....
It can be quite devastating to a child to have a person in a position of authority tell you that you are a flawed human being. We are all made a perfect reflection of God, yet we rarely, if ever, truly reflect that. But it is also one thing to have someone else tell you that you are flawed, and quite another thing to have the inner voice, the inner guru, telling you that you are flawed. Especially from an age as young as 3. Creates a heavy veil of illusion for sure. I was told by my inner voice from the time I can remember, that I had an evil heart, and that I was not only flawed as a human being, but that I was the epitome of the flawed human being. I have been fighting this perception of myself ever since. Not always very effectively.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
.....you know, we project what we believe into the world.....we seek confirmation of that image.....and then when that doesn't give the satisfaction....we create a new image...and seek to confirm that....and this is the circle....round and around.....
Oh yes....Believing that I was the epitome of "evil" human beings at such a young age, caused me to project that out into the world. Very easy for me to see that now. So much pain and anguish and suffering has been caused by this. The emotional baggage I have carried throughout my life is extensive. I DO believe that I have dropped much of it, but the really deep seated issues seem to be surfacing as of late, and sometimes these are the most difficult and hardest battles to win. I WILL prevail though....thanks to ample support from people like you!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
quote:
Yes, I try to stay as humble and as realistic as I can. Knowing that I have a LONG way to go still, and likely always will.
See....the thing is......that only each moment counts. A LONG way......is just a story, isn't it.....it matters not, does it.....a long way ....or a short way......all that matters is the moment at hand. So....every time you are just present.....this instant is IT. Everything is already here, Carson.
Yes, I can see the error in my statement now.... Telling myself that I "have a LONG way to go" is just projecting another image of what I think I am. An image that is not true. It can be hard to accept that the true "me" is a being of white pure lving light, when I often feel very much the opposite of that. It really does seem to be a battle of learning to truly "see" myself for who and what I really am...an eternal image of God.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Yes...you know, I am every inch as selfish as you are Carson. Every inch as stubborn. So much we do for our self-interest. Often....even charity is for that. Our sadhana....our search.....all driven from self-interest. So..... Our nature is what it is. It is whether we are awake to it or not that matters If we can be still......watch....observe....and like this directly touch it with awareness.
Yes, I agree. It really is a matter of seeing ourselves for who we really are, and not seeing ourselves as the conditioned responses we have, or our instinctual reactions etc etc. It is a matter of enabling the response of "silence in action"....learning to respond from the place of inner silence and not acting due to the friction caused by external events. To become a witness to our own lives. Take our "ego/selves" out of the game. I can see this, I just need to BE this.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
....*lol*.......sorry, Carson.....*lol*.....sometimes I am not very clear am I....Yes. You got it. When all the stuff that I am not is touched by awareness.....I am revealed as I am...
Oh don't think you weren't clear enough. I don't think you could have been clearer quite honestly. It wasn't a matter of clarity on your part, it was a matter of being able to absorb what you were saying on my part. It took me a minute to grasp what you were saying because it was TOO obvious for my feeble mind to comprehend.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I unlearn much from communing here......hipp hurra !!! .......heart is so free when it experiences itself as completely ordinary......not outstanding in any way......all the energy is freed to enjoy instead.....and even though all the different happenings are taking place just as they always used to......the sacredness is in everything....as it always was,is and will be
Oh to unlearn it all eh? It's a beautiful thing learning to drop all the "beliefs" and just enjoy life as it is. The sacredness IS all around....just got to recognize it.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I think it is Mooji that says: "The universe is not vindictive....it is corrective"
When the arrow penetrates deep into your heart.....in that pain....you become alert, Carson. And this goes for the ones "you" hurt too. It is never a one-way street......the pain....it is not to hurt you......it is to make you aware.
Thank you Katrine....The wisdom pours forth once again. I can't thank you enough for sharing it with me. Forever grateful. May all your here's be Now.
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2009 : 09:34:46 AM
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Hi Carson
quote:
But it is also one thing to have someone else tell you that you are flawed, and quite another thing to have the inner voice, the inner guru, telling you that you are flawed. Especially from an age as young as 3. Creates a heavy veil of illusion for sure. I was told by my inner voice from the time I can remember, that I had an evil heart, and that I was not only flawed as a human being, but that I was the epitome of the flawed human being. I have been fighting this perception of myself ever since. Not always very effectively.
That inner voice is and was not the inner guru. The inner guru speaks not. The inner guru simply reveals what is. Wordlessly so. You may have insights....words that come after/during openings.....but these happens after the touch of heart. And they are never judgemental.
There are plenty of other inner voices.....a personality is made up of different characters....all according to who we are with at any time.....There will be a recurrent "tone"...a recurrent mode....that makes us feel as an individual. And then there is the inner judge....the super ego. To be under it's spell is very.....tiring.....very jailing. Self-reproaches....inner critics....control....self-gratification....all of it according to a reference-point......all of these are the super ego.
quote:
It is a matter of enabling the response of "silence in action"....learning to respond from the place of inner silence and not acting due to the friction caused by external events. To become a witness to our own lives. Take our "ego/selves" out of the game. I can see this, I just need to BE this.
Like you say...it cannot be done......
The thought that I can take my ego/self out of the picture is the biggest veil of all. This thought.....cannot BE anything. Neither does it see anything. So here......the ego/self/super ego is allowed to stay. It is..... after all.... happening within what I am.....and all of it can come and go.........As long as I stay where I am and don't go shopping with it....it has no power. And even when I do go shopping with it...when the basis of inner silence grows in ...depth and strength.....less and less energy is spent on the shopping....the rest....is at rest....so that even the shopping is seen to be within what I am. It is like being enmeshed and not enmeshed at the same time.....and here....this is loved now. Since just recently. I used to think that it was a problem....i harboured an idea that when "moving outward"....this was somehow not as it should be....this was somehow to "not be fully with silence". But on the contrary.....it is easy to "be home" when in samadhi....or intoxicated by the Amrita.....or when wakefully thoughtless by myself......But...the real....vital flowing happens when all is allowed...when always open.....no matter whom I am with or what is happening.....and the thrill of finding out that no matter where "I go"....within everything...within every word, every emotion....I still am as I am. Within everything.....is the fact that contains everything....I am never trapped......never separate....it is such a miracle.....that love is the way it is...
It is just like finding out recently that the Aum....the sound that is always here.........I don't have to listen to it! I sat in the sofa one evening....not doing anything....certainly not listening to the Aum....and all of a sudden I was within the sound....as a blue.....expanse.....
So...i don't have to listen to it. Because I am in fact already within it...were it not for that....no sound would be here.
So..."to need to Be this" ....if this is believed in...as a project....obscures the fact that I already am as I am. When the idea that I am somehow not what I am is not believed in....then what is left.....is that I am. And then even the idea can stay. Since I am in it too.
Ok...enough rambling, Carson.
Tomorrow I leave for Dublin....will be gone for a week. I wish you a bright Easter
PS...And yes.......(been reading some of my old posts, eh)....the here is now here.....the now is here now
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2009 : 10:59:48 AM
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Yes I have this inner negative voice sometimes. Usually my inner guru just shows me things quickly, when I think of a question.
But this inner voice sometimes tries to give me a bad answer quickly. "You can't do that." or "You're going to have an accident." "You're going to get killed." Things like that.
I used to wonder how to tell the inner guru from the bad voice. i had already concluded that if the voice is negative, just ignore it.
But this is great advice Katrine; thank you.
I think what I thought was a "positive" inner guru voice, is really me quickly translating to words what the inner guru is showing me. So that makes it even easier to distinguish. |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2009 : 7:14:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
So..."to need to Be this" ....if this is believed in...as a project....obscures the fact that I already am as I am. When the idea that I am somehow not what I am is not believed in....then what is left.....is that I am. And then even the idea can stay. Since I am in it too.
Wow, this blew my mind! Thank you for this, Katrine |
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Lacinato
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2009 : 11:17:05 PM
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I was wronged recently---nothing so bad as rape or murder, but badly hurt all the same. The person who did it said, "I'm sorry, I'm a bad person, I'm a horrible person," and assumed I wanted horrible revenge. Luckily, I was so badly hurt that I couldn't afford to be childish. So I wouldn't let the person get away with that belief ("I am a bad person"). I said, no, you're not, that's a cop-out. You did a horrible thing, and now you need to do whatever it takes to become a person that won't do those things ever again. And now, that is what is happening. It is best for us both, and anyone in the future who could have been hurt (but now, won't be--including by me since I'm choosing to not perpetuate the cycle).
You're at AYP because you don't want to hurt people again, and you want to make sure you won't. And part of the process is letting go. That helps everyone the most. This series of posts was great to read--and is helpful for me on both ends (having done wrong and been wronged). |
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The desire for justice
