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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 24 2009 : 9:21:04 PM
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Hi all,
I am sorry to write a topic about doubts on the best practice of meditation for me but I am experiencing some problems with the AYP I AM mantra meditation.
I have started with DM some 10 months ago and done it consistently since then. Since the beggining I noticed I was too sensitive to it and could not do more than 10min per sitting. Could also not add any spinal breathing and that has been constant until now.
The results had been very good since the beggining, especially steadfasteness and much needed stabilbity in daily life, and some sense of joy. But the truth is that, also from the beggining, I had problems with the use of the mantra. You see, I think a lot, and it was strange for me to use another thought to end a thought. Then, as well, my mind could not understand why the use of I AM and was not confortable with this fact. Still, because one only knows if one tries, I decided to give it a good shot. And so I did.
But the sensations have not changed. Although the practice gave me many benefits in my daily life it feels to me like it lacks "heart" (this is not a mental concept, it is a feeling inside, a reaction to the practice). What always struck me is how I felt energy emerging in me after saying the mantra only once even and how I became very "unconscious", a bit like getting a hammer blow to the head!  I know this might be just me and because of my particular character/set of mind, but somehow the mantra feels too strong.
Recently this feeling was so strong that I had to stop meditation all together. My body would just deny it, I would become irritable fast. I think it is a phase of purification I am going through (just a few days/week before I was feeling, for the first time, a stillness I haven't experienced before in my meditations, as if everything becomes very still and centered inside). Then, after a few days I just had to stop.
What happens now is that I did not wanted to stop meditating so I turned to the breath as an object. I immediately felt the differences - in this type of meditation I feel much more relaxed and feel things unfolding and unwinding much more gradually. I clearly see and am aware of the changes happening in my awareness. I am more conscious, so to speak. I also can stay for longer periods, up to 20-30min and rest less at the end. I also started feeling the first symptoms of trance like states or slightly altered states of awareness, like loosing the sense and feeling of the body and others. Some of these were a bit scary but they do not happen all the time. Usually I just naturally turn inwards and the awareness is very free and relaxed. A stark contrast with the mantra for me, that "knocks me unconscious" almost immediately, and there is also a subtle but powerful energy that rushes up. To put it crudely, the mantra kind of "fires me up", and the bretah "winds me down".
So, now I am very confused. I really like AYP, Yogani's style of writing and presenting, and was thinking of stick to it for good. But apparently my own being has other plans?...Can I find my own personal routine? How will I manage without expert guidance??
Has anybody experienced such differences between mantra and breath meditations? Anyone this sensitive to the mantra? Will this just be a phase that can pass? Why are the mantra meditations not pleaseant as the bretah awareness? Should they be? I know I should not be switching back and forth between systems and I really like AYP's framework but don't know what to do! Please help? |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2009 : 9:35:42 PM
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Hello YIL my Friend....
It is a phase, but it could be a long one....or not. Who knows? But if you feel that the mantra is too strong, and you need to meditate on the breath, then meditate on the breath. Everyone is different, and no one is forcing you to adhere to anything...except maybe yourself . Some people are more sensitive then others, that's all there is to it. Just because you don't stick to the AYP system to a "T" doesn't mean you can't be here on the forum asking questions and giving advice! I think you should do what feels best for you and stop beating yourself up for doing so! I wish you the best my friend....know that you will be in my thoughts....
Love,
Carson |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2009 : 9:47:15 PM
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Carson, thank you my friend.
I bow to you my friend.
_/\_
I will continue with the breath for a few more days/weeks. Today I did the mantra in the afternoon and really felt the difference again and that was why I got upset...like you say, maybe it's just a phase, even if a long one...I feel a bit "lost" at the moment...I just don't want to stop meditating so will do it on the breath for a while longer and see if things settle down. Is just that AYP is so well structured and integrated, I feel I lose...:) Still hope I still can use some of the other techniques, but it becomes experimentation! At least I can always incorporate samyama ;) |
Edited by - YogaIsLife on Mar 25 2009 04:47:11 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 12:15:36 AM
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YIL my Friend....
I would wager that the reason you feel "lost" is because you are at least a little attached to the AYP system. And you WANT to be able to use it how it is "prescribed", but you can't because you are on the sensitive side of the scale. Time to lose an attachment I guess! K, seriously for second here, you like the AYP system.....it's formulated well, Yogani is the ultimate living "non-guru", it has a great support forum filled with hoards of helpful people...what's not to like?!?! But you are too sensitive to use it quite the way it is written. At least right now. So modify a bit and continue. No big deal. Most would kill to be where you are. There are dozens of people on here basically begging for some kind of validation that this "yoga" S#$% is actually worth doing and you have more (validation) then you can handle. Take the good with the bad and realize this is just how it is. Doesn't change anything except the way you have to practice for now. Take a deep breath and let go. ***inhale*** ***exhale***...You're still here right?
Love,
Carson
P.S. Sorry if this sounds a little manic.....I just got home from my first "official" kundalini yoga class and I'm a little "elated". |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Mar 25 2009 12:17:32 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 04:56:34 AM
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No, it does not sound manic to me at all! quite sound actually.
Very good points Carson, thank you. Maybe it is an attachment, you are right. I thought it was one of those "good" atachments you know, an addition worth taking to overcome all other additions, even this one. Yes, I'll have to find my own way...in a way we all do, but it is so much easier when you can just follow a set of perscribed rules that work...
Yes, no lack of validation here! Or, seen another way, so much that is maybe too little... I mean, I can't even do spinal breathing properly!!
It may be purification. I feel it is my neck/head opening. I can feel it. We'll see, I'll give it a little more time and take it from there. Use my own self experiences as a guide. guru inside - get to work!
In the meantime, if anyone has experience in using the breath as an object I would appreciate some advice. How many sessions and of what duration per day do you do your sessions? What are the results you get from this practice? How do you integrate, if you do, AYP practices into breath awareness meditations?
Thanks much.
P.S.: And tehn I read experiences like this from tadeas (Fullness - http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=5387 ) and I get even more sad...have to use it to fuel my bhakti though! here's an AYP lesson that always can be used... |
Edited by - YogaIsLife on Mar 25 2009 04:58:44 AM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 05:15:40 AM
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Hi Yogaislife,whats up?
"I am sorry to write a topic about doubts on the best practice of meditation"
First of all i think this is the reason of this forum.Helping people clearing their doubts,dont you think?
Before adding the breath meditation,did you try 5 mtes of DM twice a day?maybe is the time you need now.When we have been practining meditation with no problems for a long time,you have been purifying lot of things inside you,you have been going more and more inward day by day.
But its necessary a balance,and now you need to go outward i think,because we need to bring out to the world our work in the inward phase.
If you feel bad with 5mtes of DM twice a day,carry on with breath meditation.Now you need this practice.But dont forget to self-pace!
If breath meditation brings you down,thats what you need now.You have been 9 months climbing to your self,but now you need to look at your feet in earth.Pure balance.
But im secure its a phase.
In the other hand,you say you see a lack of hearth in practice.I think you have been picking up the mantra with too mental intention.¿you feel it inside your head all the time?let it go!
it had lead you feeling jailed in mind.
My advice is picking up the mantra in other way.Try to pick up the mantra with you hearth.Its like people in this forum who says that for them is better to pick up the mantra like you were seeing it,or hearing it from outside.Feel the mantra in you hearth area,but dont force it stay there,begin in hearth area but let it go free where he wants.
Try to pick up the mantra more with a real feeling from you than with a mental intention.
Maybe you are that person who lifes more in the hearth that in the mind.
Follow your hearth and intiution in spiritual path,because they neves lie.
And remember dont be afraid about the future of your path,because where you go is the best place for you.
Love
Brath meditation is a powerfull practice.An a tool for self peace.AYP DM i think is more powerfull,and maybe the most powerfull tool i have tested.
Now,im doing 5 mtes twice per day,because is my own pce now.But i can certifie you that this little practice for me now is very powerfull and i feel purification,lot of purification(smoothly) day by day.
Your case is a phase,you need to go slow now.My best advice:DONT LEAVE DAYLY MEDITATION.it doesnt matter wich meditation is.
The most important think in yoga is perseverance,no matter rain,snow,thunders... |
Edited by - miguel on Mar 25 2009 05:28:01 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 05:25:00 AM
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Thanks Miguel!
quote:
If breath meditation brings you down,thats what you need now.You have been 9 months climbing to your self,but now you need to look at your feet in earth.Pure balance.
I guess you are right, this makes sense.
quote:
Before adding the breath meditation,did you try 5 mtes of DM twice a day?maybe is the time you need now.When we have been practining meditation with no problems for a long time,you have been purifying lot of things inside you,you have been going more and more inward day by day.
No, not even 5min is ok. I literally mean that a single mantra thought in the mind has a direct immediate effect. It was the many months using it, it becomes almost a direct veicule inside...one repetition is pratically enough to take me inside and start the purification process...fast and strong...a bit like a blow to the head, like I said above...I wonder if this is a good thing, but for the moment it does not feel right so I back off for a while...
quote:
Try to pick up the mantra more with a real feeling from you than with a mental intention.
This is indeed very difficult to do. Yes, the mantra feels like a thought in my mind, and I have a history of reacting to thoughts in my mind That is why I was apprehensive in using a mantra in the first place. But, like I said, it works, but the practice feels like it lacks a bit of "heart", which I find more while doing breath awareness...
quote:
Maybe you are that person who lifes more in the hearth that in the mind.
Follow your hearth and intiution in spiritual path,because they neves lie.
And remember dont be afraid about the future of your path,because where you go is the best place for you.
Love
Man, thank you miguel! That is very kind of you. Will try not to forget that. After all it was my intuition/desire that brought me to AYP in the first place so I just have to keep on "oiling" that intuition of mine I guess |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 05:31:53 AM
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Hi Yogaislife,
I don't see any reason at all why you could not succesfully integrate breathing meditation with AYP. Yoga is a big field, and meditation is only a part of that. I have been integrating breathing meditation with yoga for about 13 years, and breathing meditation with AYP in particular for about 4 years. It has been an ever expanding fountain of joy.
Wishing you all the best.
Christi |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 05:39:04 AM
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Yes yogaislife,thats the attitude.
Dont close your mind.Be open.Yoga is "only" a tool,not the end,the end are you.
Now my advice is stop doing DM.Tou are extremly sensible now.
I did breath meditation 2 days ago because i felt a little bad all the day.The day after all went right.
Breath meditation is great tool for very sensitive meditators.Its soft,but powerfull at the same time.DM is more energetic i think.
Now,try doing with breath meditation the time you need.Maybe 1 month,2,3?i dont now...But dont get sad about this.No matter the tool you use,the most important thing is daily practice.Then,the process continue.Dont stop the process,it can lead you to lot of frustation.
i wrote you this when you where answering me.Maybe you dindnt look it:
Brath meditation is a powerfull practice.An a tool for self peace.AYP DM i think is more powerfull,and maybe the most powerfull tool i have tested.
Now,im doing 5 mtes twice per day,because is my own pce now.But i can certifie you that this little practice for me now is very powerfull and i feel purification,lot of purification(smoothly) day by day.
Your case is a phase,you need to go slow now.My best advice:DONT LEAVE DAYLY MEDITATION.it doesnt matter wich meditation is.
The most important think in yoga is perseverance,no matter rain,snow,thunders...
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 05:46:15 AM
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Give your hearth what he needs.If he needs now breath meditation,give him breath meditation.It the first step i think.The hearth never lies,he is your best friend.
Tons of love for all. |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 06:17:32 AM
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Thanks a lot Christi, that is very helpful to know.
Could you give me a few hints maybe? Do you do both AYP DM and breath meditation at the same time? Do you alternate or stick only to one? If you do only breath meditation, do you added other practices (e.g., spinal breathing) into that? And if you do breath meditation, for how long do you do it and how often per day? THANKS!!
And thanks again Miguel! I think that is very good advice. Yes, I know what you mean not to stop meditating. That was my biggest concern - I felt I really did not wanted to stop but felt at a crux! Yes, the breath is gentle, and still there seems to be purification, although less energy, as you say. Glad you seem to have similar experiences as me...Maybe it's the latin blood? (I am portuguese ) |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 06:21:37 AM
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Sorry Miguel, we crossposted...
quote:
I feel you look simmilar than me in practices.Too much sensitive.
When im i DM,one thing i observe,is there is a point in DM when i relize i "hey miguel,you are tying to keep the mantra up in the head,why dont you let it go down?",Then i let the mantra goes free throught all the body,doesnt matter the place.Then it goes in other directions,i feel it in the legs,hearth,arms.The mantra begings tarveling along the body,and the process changes and i feel good.You can pick up the mantra with other parts of your body,not only the mind (if it wants to return to the mind thats ok too).And if you observe a less clear pronuntiation thats ok too.Only favour the mantra.
Yes, this could be part of the problem but don't think it's the main thing. The mantra will resonate with a specific part of your body, no matter where you put it in the body. But it may be true that I try to hold on to it too tightly in the mind maybe?...Still I don't think that is the main problem, it's just that I am sensitive. But you go on boy, you seem to be doing fine. As I said I did it for 10 months with very good results, although always conscious of how strong it was.
All the best my good friend! |
Edited by - YogaIsLife on Mar 25 2009 06:22:09 AM |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 06:23:55 AM
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I feel you look simmilar than me in practices.Too much sensitive.
When im i DM,one thing i observe,is there is a point in DM when i realize: "hey miguel,why are you trying to keep the mantra up in the head,why dont you let it go down?",Then i let the mantra goes free throught all the body,doesnt matter the place.Then it goes in other directions,i feel it in the legs,hearth,arms.The mantra begings traveling all along the body,and the process changes and i feel good,more freedom.You can pick up the mantra with other parts of your body,not only the mind (if it wants to return to the mind thats ok too).And if you observe a less clear pronuntiation thats ok too.Only favour the mantra.
Maybe you have been keeping it in the mind and now you have created a big reserve of energy in the mind,and maybe it wants to get free and travel all along trought the body.
But maybe now you cant manage all that reserve of energy and you need breath meditation for a more effective and smoothly digestion of all that reserve of energy.But in he future,when you return to DM,consider this idea of letting the mantra runs along your body.Let your arms,legs,hearth,feet pick up the mantra too.They have their own voice too,the voice of the body exists too,and your body can help you very much.
And you say you feel less energy with breath meditation.Ok,thats great!it means you are in digestive process as consecuence of you 9 months saddhana and its working!carry on!dont stop!Good luck!
(This is an advice from a person who tends to have lot of mental stuff)
And yes,maybe is latin blood hahawho knows!
all the best for you too YIL!
Um abraço |
Edited by - miguel on Mar 25 2009 06:59:28 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 08:15:19 AM
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Hi YIL,
Have you read up this topic by Anthem?
AYP "Lite" for very sensitive meditators
In this part he says that a lite form of AYP meditation can work for very sensitive meditators and when you feel stable enough, you can try and introduce mantra meditation back again (I have highlighted the meditation technique.. it is very close if not exactly the same as what you are doing right now.. your inner guru knows ):
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
About a year back my girlfriend started practicing AYP deep meditation, fairly regularly, probably once a day an average of 5 days a week doing 10 minute sessions.
It became evident once she became regular in practice within a couple of months that she was extremely sensitive to the effects of meditation and experienced many signs of being over like: irritation, emotional turbulence, confusion with the purpose and meaning of life, etc. She took a couple of weeks off, stabilized and felt good again, then reduced time down to 6 minutes and continued to practice. Again, within a few weeks, the same symptoms presented themselves. It wasn't obvious at first, because neither of us expected only 6 minutes of deep meditation to be so powerful for her but each time she repeated the process she would exhibit classic signs of being "over".
This is a slightly simplified version but she also tried spinal breathing a few times during these cycles as we were trying to figure out what was or wasn't working and even only a minute or two would give her similar symptoms of being "over" in practices almost immediately. On days where she added in an asana class, she would also show symptoms shortly thereafter. So the writing was on the wall that she couldn't continue to meditate the same way though she still wanted to, realizing the long term benefits of it.
So with some feedback from Yogani, the idea for her to do a "lite" version of meditation was introduced where she simply sat for 6 minutes a day bringing attention back to the breath whenever she noticed the mind wandering. I have since learned that this is similar or the same way that the Buddha taught meditation.
She practiced this "lite" method of meditation for approximately 3 months and was extremely stable the entire time. She then announced one day that she wanted to go back to the "i am" meditation and did, starting with 6 minutes a day and has now been at that for probably 2 months and remains completely stable, her longest stretch yet with AYP even when a lot of asana classes are added into the equation which was not possible previously. Recently she announced she wanted to increase her time with DM so is now moving cautiously in that direction since she is enjoying the benefits of practice and doesn't want to jeopardize that.
For whatever reason, it seems that she wasn't able to do AYP DM right off the bat, but with some time with the "lite" version was able to practice and reach a point where she could practice the "i am" meditation with stability.
So for those who find themselves in the very sensitive to meditation group and can't find stability using the core AYP practices, doing the "lite"/ breath as the mantra version might be a good alternative until stability is found or even longer if it is working well.
Like Carson said, it's a phase, and it will be gone.. till then do what makes you comfortable. You do take rest after meditation right? You have some form of exercise routine in place right? You can eat some heavier foods for a bit too.. that will help. |
Edited by - Shanti on Mar 25 2009 08:17:52 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 08:34:28 AM
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Thanks a lot Shanti.
Yes, I had seen the post by anthem and the situation is indeed very similar. I will keep with the breath for a few weeks/months and see how I go from there. Yes, I been reading a bit about buddhist techniques and it is indeed the same. If later I feel able to come back to the mantra I will and I am sure I will be in a different place by then...
Yes, I take rest after meditation (could not live without that!) and exercise sufficiently and eat healthy I think.
Yes, the inner guru knows...sometimes there is some resistance, but the inner voice is always there, whispering until one pays attention . Thanks Shanti and blessings |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 09:51:09 AM
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Hi Yogaislife.
I have always integrated it as a seperate practice, such as 10 min spinal breathing, 10 mins mantra meditation, 10 minutes breathing meditation, 10 mins samyama. I also combine other spiritual practices at times (bastrika, cosmic samyama, heart breathing, metta bhavana, visualizations etc) But I have never been one to stick too rigidly to clocks. I combine all those practices with the bandhas and mudras at times, depending on the energy levels in my body.
One advantage with breathing meditation is that it is very gentle. So if you are experiencing energetic imbalances, you can cut down on other (more powerful) practices whilst keeping a stable breathing meditation practice together. That way inner silence is always being cultivated even as the storm rages inside. You also have a lot more room to extend the meditation time if you wish to.
It's an ongoing experiment... but so far, the results are good.
Christi
p.s. The best book I have seen on breathing meditation is Jack Kornfield's "A path with heart". |
Edited by - Christi on Mar 25 2009 10:23:46 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 10:06:07 AM
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Thank you so so much Christi. This is precisely the kind of advice I was needing. I now know I can complement AYP with breathing meditation.
Also great to know other people have the same experiences. This is my experience as well - breathing meditation is gentle and allows for the continuing cultivation of inner silence even through stormy times Really great to know. I also can do it for longer, that is for sure, which is a pleseant thing sometimes.
Will check that book by Jack Kornfield. Been having very good references for it from all over the place so I guess that is a must have!
Thanks again Christi mu brother . |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 10:24:40 AM
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Hi Yogaislife,
You're welcome.
Christi |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Mar 25 2009 : 10:08:56 PM
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Dear YIL,
I have had the same problem. You probably read my post a while back about mantra v. breath. I had quit using the mantra too because of sensitivity and irritability. It was just too much, very uncomfortable. I have stabilized for the most part using the breath and other methods. Occasionally the mantra pops in my head on its own just from habit. I spent almost 2 years faithfully. I did become quite consistent with twice a day and my body and mind liked that. This was a good thing about AYP. I have always liked to meditate and would do many hours before but it was not on schedule. The discipline is something I do not regret. I need that. Perhaps after a good period of comfort I will give the mantra a try again. But for now I will continue to use the breath. I realized a while ago what the breath as object does. It is a feedback device. When you watch the breath it changes and continues to change, at least until it stops. One thing I realized just yesterday about the breath too. It is connected to the cardio vascular system, cardio being the heart. Being closer to the heart, as miguel says, brings you to the blessings of the heart. Pure optimism and enthusiasm. 
Love to all,
Jill |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 11:14:43 AM
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Hi Jill,
There have been a few times over the past 4 years when I have had to self pace to the extent that I have cut out everything other than breathing meditation. I have never found that I had to stop that as well as it is so gentle. Usually it only takes a few days or weeks before things become stable again. I have noticed that although there are many forms of pranayama, kriyas and other techniques in AYP, there is only one form of meditation, which I think is a shame as yoga is rich with meditation techniques.
I have noticed here in the forums that many people find themselves at times unable to practice at all because of increased sensitivity to the practices, and that could be avoided with a broader base of more gentle techniques.
Just as a side note, metta bhavana is another very gentle practice (coming from the same tradition as breathing meditation) and brings you even closer to your heart than breathing meditation does. They compliment each other well, especially for sensitive people.
All the best,
Christi |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 12:01:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
...I have noticed that although there are many forms of pranayama, kriyas and other techniques in AYP, there is only one form of meditation, which I think is a shame as yoga is rich with meditation techniques.
I have noticed here in the forums that many people find themselves at times unable to practice at all because of increased sensitivity to the practices, and that could be avoided with a broader base of more gentle techniques.
Just as a side note, metta bhavana is another very gentle practice (coming from the same tradition as breathing meditation) and brings you even closer to your heart than breathing meditation does. They compliment each other well, especially for sensitive people.
Hi Christi:
I think we are headed in that direction, as per the discussion here on research on modifications to AYP practices, and the "bell curve" spanning the range of practitioner sensitivity and lack of sensitivity to practices:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=5103
It is only a matter of how and when it becomes formulated, tested by many, and made part of the systematic approach to practices. A broadening of the AYP approach to cover a wider range of practitioner sensitivities is inevitable, is happening already, and is a priority for future writings.
Discussions like this one are very useful, and a key part of the evolution that is constantly occurring in the community. It is the kind of thing that no one person can represent experientially. It takes a village.
Thanks!
The guru is in you.
PS: It is not only meditation being viewed for sensitivities. It happens with other practices too, depending on the individual. There are numerous examples of sensitivity to many practices here in the forums -- many discussions on self-pacing for maintaining progress with comfort and safety. So we are talking about a wide field of ongoing knowledge development, which I expect will be occurring for a long time into the future through the efforts of many researchers.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 12:27:21 PM
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Hi Jill!
Thanks for chiming in and for the great contribution.
It is great to find out I am not alone in this. I agree with everything you say and I find the same. I gather from your post that you still mantain the AYP time routine (twice daily) but do it with the breathing now, is this correct? That is what I am doing now at the moment. the only thing is that often I find that I would like to - and can - stay longer with the breath.
I agree with Christi. AYP deep meditation can indeed be very strong for sensitive folk, and the breathing awareness meditation is a very good substitute, at least until things settle down. I, for one, am glad I realised this, as I did not want to stop meditating, but was finding using the mnatra intolerable for my system.
It is also good to know that other AYP techniques can be complemented over breath meditation, but I still want to stabilise my new practice first.
quote:
I realized a while ago what the breath as object does. It is a feedback device. When you watch the breath it changes and continues to change, at least until it stops. One thing I realized just yesterday about the breath too. It is connected to the cardio vascular system, cardio being the heart. Being closer to the heart, as miguel says, brings you to the blessings of the heart. Pure optimism and enthusiasm.
So true. I am quite enthusiastic about this new "toy" myself . It has definitely a different "flavour" to it in relation to the mantra. Indeed I also find the breath seems to connect me with my body and the life force and takes me inside very gently. It is the very flow of prana that sustains us that we are taping into and it is a very relaxing feeling to just allow and observe it working on its own. It is, like you say, a very organic thing, connecting us to our physiological mechanisms (like our heart) and naturally bringing us to stillness. I also find it nice that even during the day I can tap into the breath. It becomes almost automatic, like a 'walking meditation'.
What do you do when the breath stops?
I find that my attention seems to naturally stabilise on a new object. Usually it substitutes the breath to whatever is there in its place. Either it's some quality of 'blackness' or stillness, or some physical spot inside me, or even the flow of prana inside after the breath stops. In either case it seems to flow naturally and there are enough things happening inside that seem to be able to sustain the attention quite effortlessly. Still it does not happen often enough for me for this to be of concern anyway.
quote:
Just as a side note, metta bhavana is another very gentle practice (coming from the same tradition as breathing meditation) and brings you even closer to your heart than breathing meditation does. They compliment each other well, especially for sensitive people.
Thanks for your post Christi, very helpful, as always . I did not know what you were refeering to but searched on the net for the definition. It is very interesting as I do that practice almost automatically with my breathing meditation. It happens spontaneously if feelings/emotions arise. Maybe I was a buddhist in a former life! ) I guess is the same principle that also is used here in AYP - bringing the benefits of stillness into obstructions. For me it seems to be enough to just focus on the breath, all the rest happens automatically, with inner silence rising. If I am lost in feelings/emotions/thoughts I go back to the breath, and this seems to do the trick...
On a side note I just wanted to say that what I feel now almost certainly would not be possible if I had not been very regular in I AM AYP meditation for the last 10 months. It would also probably be many many more months of breath meditation before I could be where I am now I believe. And who knows, maybe I'll go back to it later. Sure it is an effective practice, just too strong for some people I guess.
I was just checking with my mom (who also does I AM meditation for some months now) and she is ok with it for the moment - another proof that everyone is different. She does say she feels it's strong though. I asked her if she rests lying down some 5min before getting up and she said she does. "You have to" she said, "you get a bit 'knocked out' from the meditation". "But this is a good thing", she remarked |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 12:55:06 PM
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"On a side note I just wanted to say that what I feel now almost certainly would not be possible if I had not been very regular in I AM AYP meditation for the last 10 months. It would also probably be many many more months of breath meditation before I could be where I am now I believe."
Yes,spiritual path is a accumulative process,i discovered that a few months ago.I think the most important thing is the road,not the tool,and when you are in front of a new tool "talking" to you,it has a meaning.With time you will know the meaning in your path.
Yil,im glad things are going well for you.
God bless you all. |
Edited by - miguel on Mar 26 2009 12:59:07 PM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 1:10:29 PM
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So true miguel, thank you!
Let's see where this road leads us, shall we?...
God bless you too. |
Edited by - YogaIsLife on Mar 26 2009 1:34:21 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 4:57:22 PM
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I was using breath meditation for many years before AYP and still use it on Buddhist retreats and at a weekly sangha.
For my daily practice I've been using the mantra and find, as has been said, that it is a lot more powerful.
At the moment I am having to ease back on the mantra time because of what is being said, it leads to overload very easily if I do 20 minutes of it regularly.
A while back I tried doing the 10 mins SB, 20 of Breath and Samyama for about two weeks to see how it would work out.
At the beginning it was working great, I found the breath meditation wery subtle and refined and very quiet. After a few days though I began to miss the extra dimension of the mantra and the urge to practice regularly began to wane.
This has been one of the most important aspects of AYP for me, the fact that, once it is established, it is something that is missed when not partaken and this leads to a much, easier to maintain, practice regime.
If possible, I think even a few minutes of the I AM mantra and then switch to the breath would be a good way to go, striking a balance somewhere that suits the system at the time.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2009 : 5:28:21 PM
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That is great input Sparkle, thank you.
quote:
At the beginning it was working great, I found the breath meditation wery subtle and refined and very quiet. After a few days though I began to miss the extra dimension of the mantra and the urge to practice regularly began to wane.
This has been one of the most important aspects of AYP for me, the fact that, once it is established, it is something that is missed when not partaken and this leads to a much, easier to maintain, practice regime.
If possible, I think even a few minutes of the I AM mantra and then switch to the breath would be a good way to go, striking a balance somewhere that suits the system at the time.
Yes, I know what you mean and I can understand it is so. I am still fine-tuning my own system and see what works for me in this field. But I can see how the mantra practice is easier to mantain in a daily basis, yes. But the balance between mantra-breath should be found though, in case of sensitive people/phases. I'll do a few more weeks of the breath meditation and see how it goes. I trust the guide inside, when it's time to go back to the mantra I'll know. |
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mantra to breath: do I have to change my practice?
