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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 17 2005 : 12:27:13 PM
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>> If it gets annoying, or feels stuck, I recommend trying some different types of bodywork. I tried a lot of different things, some of which turned out to be goofy, but the one that has helped the most is cranial sacral work. I was amazed at the results.
Hi Meg, some of my energy is definitely stuck. You mention you tried cranial sacral work. Did you try acupuncture by any chance? I am asking this because I am thinking of giving it a try.
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 17 2005 12:27:48 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2005 : 1:28:17 PM
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Hi David - I think it depends on where your energy is stuck. When the current wouldn't move past my sacrum, I worked with a guy who did deep tissue work, which became energy-based work (releasing old holding patterns in the pelvic area). It was amazing work, and I experienced a freedom of movement in my hips that I'd never had. And the current started moving into my heart region. Then I did some acupuncture, and yes, it did seem to open up that area quite a lot. But I wouldn't call it profound - just helpful. It's all so subjective, you know. I find acupuncture to be most effective for minor injuries. If your blockage is in the throat, moving up into the cranium, then I highly recommend the cran-sac work, as it works directly with the flow of spinal fluids.
BTW, the guy who worked on my pelvic area said that it's very common for energy to get stuck there, even if the person isn't aware of it. We create defensive holding patterns with our muscles that are buried deep in the pelvis, often when we're very young, and these patterns stay with us until we train them to do otherwise. When they're finally allowed to release through deep massage and tissue work, the energy that has been used to hold that pattern is also released, with amazing results. It takes a while! I worked with him for over a year.
I should add that I'm a real skeptic when it comes to all of these alternative healing/energy practices. But an open-minded one, I guess, or else I wouldn't even give them a try. Whatever you decide to try, go to a practitioner who's been doing it for a long time - it makes all the difference in the world. Good luck!
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2005 : 1:26:53 PM
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Dear David,
Energy blockages are often on sites of past or present injuries although the blockage doesn't always manifest in the injured area.
L&L
dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2005 : 3:11:45 PM
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" . . . the blockage doesn't always manifest in the injured area."
Dave - Can you elaborate on that a little? Thanks -
meg
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2006 : 08:08:05 AM
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David, what exactly is your symptoms? I had tried acupuncture a few times in 2004. Not enough experience to comment. But people here have been using it for a large variety of symptoms, with very good results. But it's better to do it consistently over a certain period. If you just want to "feel better", most qualified practioner will be ok. But for healing, especially more long-term or complicated problems, you will have to find a really good practioner. Less than 1 out of 10 among those "qualified" are truely good. That's why acupuncture doesn't have the fame it deserves. If you find a good practioner, they can help with some of the most unusual symptoms with surprising results.
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Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 01 2006 10:28:13 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2006 : 10:44:41 AM
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My symptoms: occasional general malaise and not feeling happy enough. Have you heard of this?  |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2006 : 5:54:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
" . . . the blockage doesn't always manifest in the injured area."
Dave - Can you elaborate on that a little? Thanks -
meg
Sorry Meg I missed your request for further comments on this one.
I suffered from a back injury to a muscle to the right of my left shoulder blade. I injured this over 20 yrs ago on a martial arts seminar.When someone gave me healing to the area pain manifested in my neck at the right hand rear side.Since meditating I often feel this pain although it is reducing as the injury is healing and purification is taking place.Although the muscle no longer troubles me for about the last 1 yr I still get signs of the energy ways still in need of purification.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2006 : 10:36:16 PM
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I would recommend strenuous exercise for that. Works for me; same symptoms.
Yes Alvin, I've heard the same thing about acupuncture. You have to ask around and get several recommendations of the same person. There is an intuitive skill involved in finding the exact points. |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2006 : 11:19:45 PM
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quote:
My symptoms: occasional general malaise and not feeling happy enough. Have you heard of this?
Sounds like my symptoms too. That's too general in nature, but acupuncture will certainly help. I think, though, doing a lot of asanas regularly will be a much cheaper way. The Ashtanga vinyasa type can help with the malaise without the choking effects of strenuous exercises, but probably it won't help much with "not feeling happy enough"...
quote:
Yes Alvin, I've heard the same thing about acupuncture. You have to ask around and get several recommendations of the same person. There is an intuitive skill involved in finding the exact points.
An experienced person can of course find the exact point more accurately and quickily. But I think the more important fact is: determining where to pin; the size of the pin; the sequence of the whole plan (over a long time), etc. If you go to different practioners for the same symptoms, they may treat you in very different ways, depending on what they perceived as the underlying cause of your symptoms. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2006 : 12:49:02 AM
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Oops, I didn't mean "exercises" like boring repetitive stuff you do at a health club. I meant something you love doing that just happens to be strenuous. I use dance, because the beat of the music makes you forget you are putting out energy. You could use sports, swimming, running, biking, martial arts, anything that gets you breathing hard, and your heart beating fast.
I find the best is when I'm pushed to my limit, so I feel "I don't think I can do this any faster or harder". (of course you need a doctor's approval if you have heart problems.)
I usually do an hour three times a week.
Then the whole rest of the day I feel wonderful and happy! And it spills over into the next day too. Do this with other people, and it's fun. You don't even have to know them.
I have to push myself to go do it, but I'm always glad I did. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2006 : 09:31:50 AM
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>> That's too general in nature, but acupuncture will certainly help. I think, though, doing a lot of asanas regularly will be a much cheaper way.
One thing I have done so far is follow Jim's advice and have ordered that book he recommended in 'A painful path and spiritual friends'. I have started doing the chest-openers and am getting good results already...... I'll keep you posted about how it goes.... |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2006 : 10:51:06 AM
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We don't have much meditation here in Hong Kong (certainly NO kriya yoga), but I am fortunate to be in a centre where there are many highly qualified teachers from india. Some of them yoga champions, some had devoted years in retreat practising all day long. They came from different traditions, so I have a chance to know different forms of yoga. (TO be precise, different forms of hatha yoga) No Iyengar, though. So I can't say anything about that, and I decide to give Iyengar a chance after my membership of the current center end.
There are mainly two types of symptoms for me:
1. energy imbalances, like a brain fog, confusion, feeling uneasy, malaise.
2. emotional things, depression.
I think what you're mentioning is the first type, right? For me, I found the ashtanga vinyasa to be most helpful for that. Just about a month ago, I was doing a lot of Navi Kriya, like 240-300 lifts per day. And I got some obvious symptoms of energy imbalance, the first type above. Surprisingly to me at that time, my physical energy had become stronger despite the mental weakness and confusion. (in contrast to depression, during which everything will just go down, without any exception) The Ashtanga vinyasa class helps very obviously, with far greater results from what I can achieve by working on static asanas alone. The difference is that such classes works on the flow which is rather demanding, and finally work on some more static, stretching type asanas. The combine effect is that the energy get grounded very nicely. (in contrast to the static type hatha yoga which clears the energy more slowly, and better than usual strenuous exercises that it stretches and "open" me nicely, especially on the trunk area, giving me a sense of well-being.)
The effects have been confirmed consistently a few times. (before I finally back off from Navi Kriya!) I tried other class as well as doing asanas/exercises on my own, but they never achieve the same level of relieve in the case of energy overflow.
You can try David Swenson's DVD or book. I don't have them but they're famous for Ashtanga yoga. DVD is probably better as it will force you to follow the series on time, flowing through the postures with the instructor.
During depression, though, I would not even be able to take such difficult classes. Only static asanas are possible. And for preparation of the AYP sitting practice, Ashtanga vinyasa is probably too strenuous. So I seldom do it now, unless when I have overdone Navi Kriya or tantra sex. In fact, after I found out ashtanga vinyasa could be so helpful in clearing energy, sometimes I over-do the kundalini-stimulating ON PURPOSE, and then attend the Ashtanga class immediately. I tried only twice so far, and it works (i.e., no energy imbalance happened) I will experiment more later, when I have time!
Alvin |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 02 2006 12:05:24 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2006 : 1:52:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
My symptoms: occasional general malaise and not feeling happy enough. Have you heard of this?
David, tried aerobic exercise? Yogani kind of hints at it, but I've found it to be true: AYP plus aerobic exercise (even as low as just brisk walking, though i do realize that's not strictly aerobic) works great. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2006 : 1:56:12 PM
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quote:
sometimes I over-do the kundalini-stimulating ON PURPOSE, and then attend the Ashtanga class immediately. I tried only twice so far, and it works (i.e., no energy imbalance happened) I will experiment more later, when I have time!
My prediction (which i'm giving not to be a wiseass, but just so you can watch for a potential problem) is that this will work less and less, and you'll try more and more severe and desperate measures to reclaim the effect. If that's the case, I'd urge you not to chase it too hard or too far. If that's not the case, then I'm curious to hear how it works out for you. In any case, I wish you the best! And I'd like to restate that you may want to look into passive/restorative asana techniques, which work when depression's too severe to even do static poses. Here's the book I recommended in the other thread: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0962713848 |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2006 : 2:20:34 PM
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Yes, Jim, I do good aerobic exercise and it is great. I do a fast sun salutation regularly. I think fast sun-salutation is one of the best cardio-pulmonary exercises you can do, because you get stretching at the same time, and none of the negatives of running.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2006 : 2:29:49 PM
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Hello David
quote:
My symptoms: occasional general malaise and not feeling happy enough. Have you heard of this?
Is malaise a physical symptom to you? (My English is a little shaky here) In French it would simply mean: "not feeling good" - is that what it means in English too?
If it is; what exactly are you feeling? Any modalities?
Did this sneak up on you? (Gradually)
If not; what happened prior to this?
Not happy enough........are you sad? Bored?
Is it worse in the morning when you wake up?
Are you also experiencing energy deficiency?
Does it make you isolate yourself?
BTW - I think accupuncture is good. Have you thought about panchakarma?
May all your Nows be Here |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2006 : 04:33:53 AM
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quote:
Yes, Jim, I do good aerobic exercise and it is great. I do a fast sun salutation regularly. I think fast sun-salutation is one of the best cardio-pulmonary exercises you can do, because you get stretching at the same time, and none of the negatives of running.
Completely agree. And there's a scientific explanation (though not very rigorous) for the benefits of sun salutation too. It exercises all the major joints of the body, as well as warming them up. There are very few exercises (I can't think of others, unless you create one) which can work and stretch and warm up all the muscles so quickily. It is more effective to warm the muscles first before stretching with more static asanas, that's why sun salutation should be done first.
David, just my opinion: if you are doing sun salutation that fast (12secs/round?), then you're probably finding it too easy(aerobically). Why don't you find some more challenging variations? In fact that's what constitute an ashtanga class: many levels/series of sun salutations. By increasing the difficulty in stead of the speed, you can ground the energy more effectively, and without the side effects of having shallow breath by breathing too fast; without that choking effect of fast breathing.
The difficult series can be really difficult (though it's not for most of us here to attempt the higher series). This is what my teachers demonstrated: when moving from forward bend to plank pose, he lifts his two legs (by the way, many of the vinyasa verions move both legs together, in contrast to, say, the Satyananda version) up, supporting his body only with two arms, and move the leg SLOWLY down to the finally position (which is further back). This requires much more strength, balance, calmness than just jumping to the pose. So you see, slow is very often more difficult than fast! |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 03 2006 06:58:01 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2006 : 10:04:57 AM
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Hello Alvin,
I am going fast to get a good decent heartrate and therefore a good 'cardio-pulmonary load' and therefore get true 'aerobic' exercise. Enough to exercise the heart and lungs well.
Stretching, and even intense use of the muscles through strenuous asanas and other things, no matter how difficult, will not create a high cardio-pulmonary load unless the rate of work (speed) is high enough.
Only when the cardio-pulmonary load is high enough, then the heart and lungs are being exercises heavily, and then the exercise is called 'cardio-pulmonary exercise', and this is popularly (and technically confusingly) called 'aerobic exercise'.
If you don't go fast enough, you won't get cardio-pulmonary ("aerobic") exercise, period, no matter how strenuous your asanas are. Now, there can be a lot of debate about what the result of not getting aerobic exercise is. I personally believe that for some people at least, deep stretching and other aspects of yoga practice can considerably make up for the lack of true aerobic exercise, and that they may be able to be quite fit and healthy if they just stretch a lot and do asanas and stay largely out of the cardio-pulmonary regime.
At the same time there is no doubt that cardio-pulmonary/aerobic exercise is very good for you in itself. So for me, I like to get teh aerobic exercise too. My chosen way of getting it is through fast sun-salutation, where I get 'two birds with the one stone', the stretching and the cardio-pulmonary/aerobic exercise all at once without extra time spent exercising.
Yes, you are right that I could do variations on sun-salutation which would challenge my body in other good ways. But unless they are done fast enough, there is no cardio-pulmonary/aerobic exercise contained in that. Of course this is fine for someone who gets their cardio-pulmonary exercise by other means like jogging, roller-blading, or swimming etc. But for me who wants to get his cardio-pulmonary exercise in his Sun Salutation, I have to go fast.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Mar 03 2006 12:34:53 PM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2006 : 12:28:41 AM
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I understand that. I've been thinking about that for some time, in order to have a good and all-rounded exercise program. For example, headstand or scorpion could be very difficult, but they certainly don't give some of the benefits cardio exercises give. So I'm not saying that "difficult" asanas can replace cardio-workout.
But does it means that going fast is necessary for the 'cardio-pulmonary load'? I am still conservative. Based on my experience, the variations of sun salutation could be challenging not only in the way that the poses are difficult to maintain, but also makes my heart beat crazily, not slower than jogging. So it's very "cardio" in its literal sense. Certainly the breath, though it wants to go fast (sometimes the urge is so large that I have to add one extra breath), are controlled to sychronized the movements, and depth are emphazied together with ujjayi. So I'm not sure whether such "breath-controlled" cardio can cover the benefits of cardio. I didn't notice any scientific investigation on that, by the way. What do you think?
Also, I don't mean to make it really slow. It's about 3-6 seconds per flow.
It's interesting to investigate further on that. For example, it's easy to understand what it means by exercising the heart, and the Ashtanga sun salutation certainly does that. But what precisely is "exercising the lung"? The lung is itself a passive organ, controlled by other muscles. Do we mean:
1. exercising those muscles for inhale/exhale;
AND/OR
2. Promoting higher rate of gaseous exchange in the lung?
Probably both. I don't mean to simplify matter, since there may be other means, beyond our current state of knowledge, that cardio-exercises are UNIQUELY beneficial to our body. But at least I think hard version of sun salutation can give 2 above, and enhanced by adding ujjayi.(and possibily 1 too, though it's in a more controlled and slow way, instead of pumping quickily) For 1, I use kapalabahti/Bastrika 110times/round, and 3 rounds both in the morning and afternoon. Such pressure also enhance gaseous exchange. |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 04 2006 01:41:37 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2006 : 01:23:07 AM
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1&2. Increased oxygen has such beneficial qualities that some people construct chambers with positive oxygen pressure for healing purposes.
The muscles that inhale/exhale, particularly the abdominal muscles are the primary pump for the lymph system which helps remove toxins from the blood and is of primary importance to the immune system.
Those two benefits in conjuction with increased circulation because of increased heartrate cause enhanced physical purification. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2006 : 12:49:38 PM
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Alvin said:
But does it means that going fast is necessary for the 'cardio-pulmonary load'? I am still conservative. Based on my experience, the variations of sun salutation could be challenging not only in the way that the poses are difficult to maintain, but also makes my heart beat crazily, not slower than jogging. So it's very "cardio" in its literal sense.
The key words Alvin, are 'fast enough'. If you go fast enough to get your heartrate high enough, then you have cardio-pulmonary exercise. If you are doing strenuous Sun Salutation, it may be a lot slower than those speeds that I was saying I do.
Can you get cardio-pulmonary exercise while staying stationary? The strict truth is that you can, under extreme loads in your muscles. The rate of energy consumption by a muscle is roughly
muscle tension x ( rate of contraction + small constant)
The small constant behaves therefore as if there is always a very small minimum amount of movement/contraction in the muscle, even if the muscle is actually not really moving/contracting. So if your muscle tension is really high, like in heavy weight lifting, you can get some cardio action with very little movement. When the rate of energy consumption is high enough, you get cardio exercise.
The 'pulmonary' part of it comes along automatically. What cardio-pulmonary exercise really means is that there is a rapid consumption of oxygen. This creates the exercising of the heart and lungs. The fitness of the lungs is not muscular.
For very fit athletes, this starts to happen at a lower and lower heartrate.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Mar 04 2006 1:33:00 PM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Oct 22 2006 : 01:33:50 AM
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quote:
>> That's too general in nature, but acupuncture will certainly help. I think, though, doing a lot of asanas regularly will be a much cheaper way.
One thing I have done so far is follow Jim's advice and have ordered that book he recommended in 'A painful path and spiritual friends'. I have started doing the chest-openers and am getting good results already...... I'll keep you posted about how it goes....
So, after a few months, how it goes? |
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acupuncture for ecstatic flow?
