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ventilator
15 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 07 2009 : 7:11:14 PM
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I am married and have some issues. The problem with me is I dont like my wife talking to her sisters and mother and revealing all my secrets. I am a private person and this "talk behind my back" is very hurting to me. To be honest I dont even like my wife to be talking AT ALL to her sisters and mother. May be I have a problem with "sharing her". I used to restrict her from talking to her family and even if she talks to them it has to be before me. whenever she talks behind my back I used to either get angry on her or deny her my love. I see where I am going. It is like I am telling my wife ; I love you only if you do this and that -- A Conditional Love.
After seeing the problems with all this, I decided to let go and give my wife full freedom to talk to her family even behind my back. I used to silently cry and get hurt but never expressed my hurt before my wife. It has been going on like that for the past month or so and I really dont know if this is what I should do. Given my spiritual condition these blocks are making me get hurt if I try to give freedom to my wife but at the same time if I restrict my wife I am causing her pain. I am not sure what I should be doing and meditation just takes too long time for me to change.
A lot of you might have gone through these situations or seen them. Please advise.
-Ventilator |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 04:34:18 AM
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Hi Ventilator,
I think this is a very good opportunity to try out The Work by Byron Katie. If you haven't read the book "Loving What Is" I strongly recommend it! The Work is about self-inquiry, four questions and a turn around. Amazing things may happen when you learn how to apply them to any stressful thoughts or problems you experience. Not only may it bring you to greater clarity... the truly fascinating stuff is that as soon as you have reached that clarity yourself, it is magically transmitted to the persons involved and they will also change without you having to do ANYTHING! 
Also, check out her website:
www.thework.com
She puts out what you need for free on the web! It's still good to read the book first, though, so you get a deeper understanding of the function of it.
Love, emc |
Edited by - emc on Feb 08 2009 05:56:27 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 08:27:40 AM
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Hi ventilator
Thank you so much for your courageous sharing. Not many people will be so honest in a public forum....this act alone is a great step towards inner freedom. You deciding to let go of controling your wife was another important step. Although it is painful, it has brought you into direct contact with your own feelings. You do not avoid them, and this is crucial.
As emc said.....Byron Katie is simply great. You will find her "the work" very helpful. I went to a seminar with her recently....after having used "the work" for several years....I finally got to see her live. It was great!
I was married for 21 years (divorced a little over a year ago). What I can tell you from my own process is that....going into the marriage.....I too came with a package of inner emptiness and with little ability to love my partner unconditionally. I grew up in a family where unconditional love was almost non-existant....a lot of other very good things were present.....but not unconditional love. And that is the only love worth experiencing, isn't it?
Instead of unconditional love, I then came into the marriage with a package of "trying to be what my partner wanted me to be". And the exact same was true for my partner. This works for a short while, and then the problems will set in. Because to get a lot of approval does not equate true love. And yet - when empty inside - it is a set tendency to try to fill this emptiness with anything that can alleviate this lack of love inside. This will also include trying to hide shortcomings, telling people what they want to hear, control peoples behaviour....you name it.
The one thing that has helped me most of all over the years is the fact that I meditated daily (more than 20 years of it). I did not see the full effect of this at the time, but in hindsight it is easy to see that it provided the clarity, inner love and courage needed in order to start talking about the "me". Warts and all. First, I told myself. Then my husband at the time.....it helped some, but not enough. Then I told one of my best friends whom I knew loved me unconditionally. Then my teachers and fellow students at the alternative medicine education I was enrolled in at the time. I started writing a diary. It helped immensly. Gradually.....the courage to be open about the shortcomings and all the ways to "improve" or "cover" them.....was more and more consistant. And believe it or not....many people seemed to love me just the way I was. Warts and all
So....first I was relatively happy in the marriage (when expectations were met :-)....then I was miserable (when they weren't met).....this lasted until the inner work of undressing begun.....these difficult years included two "almost divorces".......I was so frustrated that he didn't want us to get help. But then....as the inner work progressed.... I became more and more happy for no reason at all. However, I was never able to get my partner to join in this inner journey........so it ment I had to continue to do all the work on my own. The last two years of the marriage I was quiet happy. Not with the partnership in itself, because we were really not a match by then. I had changed too much. But I was happy in spite of this. Just small, ordinary things could make my day. And I loved my partner unconditionally......which gave a lot of joy.....in spite of the fact that this love was not returned. Then one day he voiced that he wished we had divorced some years ago. He was unhappy......and I understood that it couldn't go on any longer. So we divorced.
But really...the whole marriage was one long spiritual journey. I am grateful for every single day of it.
I am whole inside on my own now. And this is a wonderful feeling. Deep meditation and self-inquiry coupled with life experience....has changed everything.
However....the inner tendency to seek approval when not unconditionally loved is still here if sufficiently triggered. It surfaced in a situation just recently where I had covered up (for myself) a need......and when the need seemed to be met.......I ran towards it denying inside that that was in fact what I was doing.....and I fooled myself. I also fooled the one supplying the need into thinking we were getting what we wanted
Jeeez.....*laughing*.....very complicated, and a lot of unnecessary pain....However. Because of the decency of the one supplying the need.....everything was undressed, and I ended up learning again about the "me". The best thing about the learning is the awareness of this fact: In here....there will always be a tendency to be attached and to expect and to have hidden agendas. This is just the conditioning inside. However - because of the love of the Shine inside.....once there is a willingness to look at myself.....all ends well anyway. I am not the "me". It is only when all its "talk" is believed and acted upon that it can cause trouble. Otherwise...it is not even a ghost :-)
Ventilator......sorry...this ended up being a long post, but the point I wanted to stress is that:
We all come with inner conditioning. You are not different than anybody else this way. It is just that some of us had less unconditional love from the start. And we were trained to accept conditional love instead. Because anything is better than the inner emptiness, right?
However, it is by facing it, like you are doing now.....that you will come to know its origin and also the "cure" for it. If you can find the courage to speak to your wife honestly about it, it will be a great step to take. If she is not able to understand it (and remember ....she might have the same problem as you regarding conditional love).....then speak with someone you trust. Tell that person what you are like. Lay yourself bare.....be completely honest about all your shortcomings. And keep being open with your wife about it, even though she still might not understand. When the courage increases, you will notice that it is because someone out there will give you unconditional love. You will feel loved and this will change things.
And finally.....most important of all.......keep meditating! Because it is the unconditional love that already resides in your own heart that will bring the greatest freedom. The more you love yourself and others unconditionally.....the less it matters whether others love you or not. You just flow anyway.
Carson in the forum here reccomends a book called "Real Love" by Greg Baer. I ordered it, and though I haven't read it yet, I have read the cover and the first couple of pages.....and it seems to be talking about this exact issue. I'm sure Carson can tell you more. And I will come back to report here when I have read it.
Ok....that's bout it.
Thank you again for being so open. And please keep us posted on your journey towards accepting yourself as you are.
We are all in the same boat
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 10:00:47 AM
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Hi Ventilator,
Although I am not married I think I can understand. It is about expectations, and being hurt when what we think we need is not met, and the opposite happens. I find two things to be true: the more you worry about something, the more it will seem it is happening (the more you make it happen) and the more you let go or "don't care" the more everything seems to flow and come into place by itself.
What are the best tools to learn to let go then? Because everybody knows it is not easy, and it is not just a matter of you controlling yourself and forcing yourself not to have expectations. That does not work, as you yourself saw in your own story. It is mind fighting mind, it won't work. So the tools - meditation and relaxing into the moment. These are the ones I used and they have worked.
For mediattion I do AYP for 8 months now, and although the chnages came gradually and barely perceptible, I do notice how much I have changed from before. How much things that used to bother me so much before, don't anymore. It's like they hit an invisible brick wall Or maybe they pass through me without making a storm on the way...Especially, like yourself, things that people would say or do that would hurt me, I would feel so hurt and afraid, like no-one understood or cared, like closed inside a shell. I don't know what meditation did but it gave me inner strenght, it just did it by itself, no need to keep talking to myself all the time or trying to control it as I did for years prior! 
Then, I also found great strength in the simple inquiry of living in the now. Accepting things as they are right now. Faults and all. There is great great power in this. It is a training but it can be done. Can be hard in the beggining but it gets easier over time. It is all about surrendering. Accepting the moment AS IT IS. Pains and all, everyhting. then the next moemnt comes, and it's different, and you accept it. You can only change through the present moment, through accepting it as it is, not by expecting that it is going to be better in the furute. You would be missing this. But to aid in being present I must say meditation is great. So, do give it a try and see for yourself. In the meantime try and accept things as they are, your inner feelings and exterior circumstances. You will be amazed how quickly you will change and how things that used to bother you so much don't anymore. And you will be amazed how people around you change as well without you doing any effort All that is needed is no expectation
All the best! |
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ventilator
15 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 10:11:50 AM
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Thanks Katrine for the wonderful post. I'm exactly from the same upbringing where unconditional love was not the norm. I was all the time thinking if my wife loves me, she should be as I want her to be! It took me sometime to realize that I was wrong.
Though I know it now, I still dont feel it. It is like the difference between understanding realization and being realized. The problem with telling my wife openly is that she will start lying to me and stop being honest with me. That doesnt help. May be I should find a friend who I can talk to openly on this but am not sure how that will help.
I am happy in one way that this is a great platform for me to grow. I know more than upbringing it is hereditary and may take me a lot of time and bearing pain to overcome this. But instead of giving my wife the pain, I will just bear it myself and hopefully develop myself. Yes marriage is a great spiritual journey. I first heard this from Yogani couple of years back but didnt understand this entirely then. |
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Shredder
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 10:39:56 AM
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quote:
[
A lot of you might have gone through these situations or seen them. Please advise.
-Ventilator
I know I have had similar issues. I just had to let it go, when you do it is very liberating, like a huge weight has been lifted. In the end you will never be able to change your wife, she may fake it to please you, she may change on her own, maybe you won't like the changes, but you can change you.
When I find when something annoys me, it is because of something in me I do not like, could this be the issue? Self inquiry, meditation will help you for sure.
Also I try to think God knows everything about me, the good, the bad and the ugly. Since he/she/it/God still loves me I do my best to live my life to honor God. It really does help me in my relationships with others, and keeps the bad and ugly in check. Would God want me to control my wife, would God want me to bla bla bla. You get the idea. Best of luck......shredder |
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sushman
India
86 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 12:09:57 PM
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I kinda have similar issues with my wife. She used to share details on some of our fights with her mom or close ones. I used to wonder why she is doing this when I am not doing that (as i never share any of our details with anyone). Now, I have realized that women are different from men in these things (sorry if I am generalizing for the woman gender but I see a general pattern with the ones I know of). They will share such information as they want to vent out where men may not. So, I have started to deal with it though I still give my piece of mind to my wife. I hope i will get to that stage where I don't care anymore for such things.
My recommendation for you is to first tell your wife how you feel. She may listen or probably not. Atleast you would have tried and it may make you feel better than holding it within. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 4:16:44 PM
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Namaste ventilator, a blissful Sunday to you!
quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
I am married and have some issues.
Marriage will do that to a guy! haha, just kidding. But seriously, we all have issues with our marriages, some small some large, none more or less important then any other. Hope I can give a little advice from my perspective....
quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
The problem with me is I dont like my wife talking to her sisters and mother and revealing all my secrets.
Yes, I can understand why this would upset you. My ex and I had a similar issue back in the day....It wasn't that she would tell my secrets, (I kept my secrets from her as well) but that she would get advice from her family (mostly her mother and sister) on how to deal with me, yet they knew nothing of who I was, or the struggles I was going through (neither did my ex) so their advice was always misplaced and this aggravated things between me and her. This eventually led to me not wanting her to communicate at all with her family, very similar to what you are saying. This REALLY complicated things because she was very very close with her family and would have a hard time keeping us both happy.
quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
I am a private person and this "talk behind my back" is very hurting to me. To be honest I dont even like my wife to be talking AT ALL to her sisters and mother. May be I have a problem with "sharing her". I used to restrict her from talking to her family and even if she talks to them it has to be before me. whenever she talks behind my back I used to either get angry on her or deny her my love. I see where I am going. It is like I am telling my wife ; I love you only if you do this and that -- A Conditional Love.
Yeah you got it man! Conditional Love in a nutshell. Doesn't mean that you are a bad person, just that you need to experience for yourself some UNconditional Love so that you can learn to extend this to your wife as well. The first step in this process is being honest about yourself with someone who can show you Unconditional Love no matter what you say. In the book Katrine was talking about "Real Love" by Greg Baer, he calls this type of person a "wise friend". If you cannot find someone like this, then I would suggest that you take the plunge and have your wife read what you posted. Or just sit her down and tell her. Don't be afraid that she will reject you and get angry (and she may) because this is the first step in learning to give (and recieve) Unconditional Love. You cannot recieve Unconditional Love if you are being dishonest....you will always feel as though you were soliciting to receive this and it will be tainted.
quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
After seeing the problems with all this, I decided to let go and give my wife full freedom to talk to her family even behind my back.
Actually you didn't have anything to do with this. You can't stop anyone from doing anything. You can make it difficult, but the ultimate choice of action is always left up to the individual person. If your wife took some time off and stopped talking to her family because you requested this of her, then that is a real sign that she deeply loves you. You can't control her (nor should you try) so her allowing your request to be acted upon is big. Now you need to stop trying to control her for good. You can't control her so why try?!? Just learn to love her how she is.
quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
I used to silently cry and get hurt but never expressed my hurt before my wife.
Unfortunately this doesn't benefit anyone. It hurts you because you are feeling like she is doing this on purpose and that she must not love you because she is not seeing how badly she is hurting you, and it hurts her because she has no idea that she is hurting you, or the relationship, yet she is. It is important to be honest with your wife, even if it means telling her that she is hurting you. In fact I think this is a great idea. Telling her how you feel is the only way she can know for sure how you feel. Being silent in this situiation hurts everyone. Just make sure that when you tell her how what she is doing is hurting you, that you don't BLAME her, (it's not her fault how you react to the feelings you have) and you don't tell her with anything but pure love for her and your marriage in your heart. If you tell her angrily, or with frustration it is impossible for her to recieve the true message....which is that what she is doing is hurting you (and your marriage) and that you still love her regardless and want to work things out so you can both be truly happy. This is vital. IMO.
quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
It has been going on like that for the past month or so and I really dont know if this is what I should do.
I hid the pain my partner was causing me for many many years and all this did was exasperate the problems to the point of ending the relationship. I would not suggest continuing this route.
quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
Given my spiritual condition these blocks are making me get hurt if I try to give freedom to my wife but at the same time if I restrict my wife I am causing her pain.
As I said before, you are not in a position to give your wife freedom nor to restrict it. You are in a position to make loving requests of her like: "Please don't tell my secrets to your family....it hurts me deeply", but you have no right to tell her what she can and can't do...Ultimately it is up to her to make the decision how to act....and if she doesn't have all the information necessary to make the correct decision then that is not her fault. In this case it is up to you to give her the information that she needs so that she knows how her actions are affecting you and your marriage.
quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
I am not sure what I should be doing and meditation just takes too long time for me to change.
Well, I suggest picking up both "Real Love" and "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie....in addition to starting AYP Deep Meditation. And be HONEST with your wife...she deserves it as do YOU!
I really wish you the best of luck Ventilator, it is a tough situation, but not unsolvable. Feel free to keep us all posted on any developments as there may be a few more "tips" others can share as your journey unfolds.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Feb 08 2009 8:26:47 PM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 5:19:28 PM
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| I was gonna recommend The Work so I guess just tack on one more recommendation. |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2009 : 6:16:19 PM
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| Very nice post Carson. I also benefited from that. Thank you. |
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solo
USA
167 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2009 : 08:28:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ventilator
I am married and have some issues. The problem with me is I dont like my wife talking to her sisters and mother and revealing all my secrets. I am a private person and this "talk behind my back" is very hurting to me. To be honest I dont even like my wife to be talking AT ALL to her sisters and mother. May be I have a problem with "sharing her". I used to restrict her from talking to her family and even if she talks to them it has to be before me. whenever she talks behind my back I used to either get angry on her or deny her my love. I see where I am going. It is like I am telling my wife ; I love you only if you do this and that -- A Conditional Love.
After seeing the problems with all this, I decided to let go and give my wife full freedom to talk to her family even behind my back. I used to silently cry and get hurt but never expressed my hurt before my wife. It has been going on like that for the past month or so and I really dont know if this is what I should do. Given my spiritual condition these blocks are making me get hurt if I try to give freedom to my wife but at the same time if I restrict my wife I am causing her pain. I am not sure what I should be doing and meditation just takes too long time for me to change.
A lot of you might have gone through these situations or seen them. Please advise.
-Ventilator
I think you did the right thing by giving your wife free reigns to talk to her family. Love is not about controlling another person. So I congratulate you on that. So many men feel the need to control their wives and that behavior is selfish and fear based, not loving. Kudos to you for breaking that behavior!
Where I think you go wrong is by not expressing to your wife every time she hurts you by her gossip. Let her talk to her family. If and when these actions hurt you, tell her. When she sees that her actions truly hurt you, if she loves you, she will stop. If she then repeatedly chooses to continue on in behavior that she knows is hurtful to you, it might be time to consider ending the relationship.
That's just my input. I am certainly no "marriage professional". |
Edited by - solo on May 25 2009 10:36:09 AM |
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Accepting your partner as is
