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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 24 2009 : 06:00:57 AM
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Hi,
I have been wondering a lot about Love for "That Special Someone", Love for The Cosmos (or God or All), about Sex and Tantra. And I read Yogani's take on this - http://www.aypsite.org/T19.html.
I am still confused (yes yes, probably is my mind I know, but it won't go away if I pretend it's not there). Anyway, I've always been a bit of a romantic person and always believed in "true love". Of course, over the years I became much more practical  but I still believe there are different "grades" of love sort to say and what we can consider "true" love might exist for someone else I believe.
I recentely started a new relationship and I am "falling in love". She is very sweet, and although we are distant now, we talk a lot and seem to get along pretty well. There is a bond forming.
She also believes in true love and she has had a very strong relationship before. They practiced tantra without even calling it that. She said it was magical, she calls it "true love". After feeling that kind of ecstasy and bonding you are forever connected to that person, she says. She says most people don't know true love, that even she thought she knew until she experienced this kind of bonding, that she says it's much much stronger. I liked her descriptions of the experience of love she has had (the potential is immense!) and I believe her when she says it is higher than so-called "ordinary love". But, still, this involves another person as the object of love. Where does the divine enter in all this? Are they incompatible or mutually exclusive? And isn't loving the divine a selfish thing then? What about the other person?
That's where I get "stuck". I also beleive in Universal Love, Love for All or God or whatever you want to call it. It is a bit more abstract (at least at the stage I'm in) then loving someone but it is somethign I believe in as well. But then, what is the place of a special someone you love in your relationship with the Whole? Is your love partner merely a "tool" to get to God? That's the impression I sometimes get from reading Yogani's tantra lessons. He seems to minimize the potential for love between two people, loving each other, but maybe I am misinterpreting. If it is so, God is like a dictator or something, it is almost mean, as it wants us to use the love we feel for another and forget about the other and concentrate only on "him/her" (God)?
I know I am probably not getting myself across clearly but I hope you get the point. I've been single for a few years now and I can now feel that love/bonding between two people can be quite strong and transforming as well. I feel it (the love) working inside me as well, transforming me as much as yoga sitting practices have, only in a shorter time maybe, or so it seems. I am not saying it is better or worse but it is also transforming, it is part of the whole inner transformation. I just don't feel confortable thinking of your partner as a mere tool to reach higher, it seems selfish to me. On the other hand it also seems limiting to think as your partner as the only single most beautiful thing on this earth, as this is also not true. So, how do we live love for another and how does it all fit in our relationship with the divine? Should we remain single and open to all the cosmos or is it ok to have that "special someone"? Or (it just occured to me), would loving someone and attending to their needs be a kind of karma yoga, loving service for others as a demonstrating of love for the source of all things?
Ok, I'll stop...for now... |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2009 : 07:47:14 AM
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Actually, I think I got the answer to my own questions.
I should trust my feelings and follow them. It normally takes me to good things. It is my mind that tries to analyse what it can't understand (love) and gets all confused and wants to put it into little boxes. I will trust the process and surrender. Ah, the eternal surrender... |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2009 : 08:19:05 AM
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| I would urge you to look at her view on "eternal bond" and wonder why she and that other are no longer an item. Be careful. |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2009 : 09:45:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
I would urge you to look at her view on "eternal bond" and wonder why she and that other are no longer an item. Be careful.
Yes, I asked her that. I was also puzzled by that. How come be two people so connected and then break apart? I think they (maybe more him) were not mature enough to be able to deal with that. There was strong attraction but probably he was somehow scared and pushed her away. She said it was very very hard to get over that last bond anyway but eventually she did and she has it resolved. I think I understand what she means and I believe her.
But do you think that this "eternal bond" between two people is possible? Or is this "strong and higher love" she said she was able to feel an illusion? I don't believe it is an illusion but maybe it was just mis-directed. It sure can create attachment, at least to another person. I also tried to tell her that the love she felt was inside her, not in the other person and I think she agreed. Maybe that love should be re-directed to god or something, not to become obsessive about one person in particular. I guess this is what Yogani talks about. In any case it is a road that has to be travelled by each one of us I guess...it can be tricky I agree...
Thanks for the concern TMS but why should I be afraid? I will be careful of course anyway. |
Edited by - YogaIsLife on Jan 24 2009 09:54:37 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2009 : 6:44:16 PM
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Hi YIL
In reading this post............how to say that which cannot be put into words.....so coming back to read it again.....then still no words.......
How to get ones arms around Love......?
It can't be done, really......
But here is a song about it....written a couple of years ago....a conducter friend put music to the lyrics shortly after:
My lover
He’s here all the time
yet leaves every moment
He’s ruthless and soft like a river
And if I am quiet
enough to perceive him,
his touch is a breathtaking shiver
He renders me empty
and lighter than air;
yet pregnant with seething potential
My lover defeats me,
then helps me give birth
to that which is true and essential
Though we are married
he’s always unfaithful
to that which is future and past
His expression is new
and strikingly youthful
His wisdom is open and vast
He says: “Dare to be naked;
cause nothing is lost
but that which will lead you to boredom
And when all of my being
meets all of his zest
what rises between us is freedom
My lover;
I am blessed;
my lover,
have you guessed
is Life!
quote:
Is your love partner merely a "tool" to get to God?
Your love partner is God, YIL.....
She is sacred.....her essence is your essence. Inner silence is the same in both.
What is true in her is true in you.
Life is so short......so short, YIL......
Many people go through life...never meeting someone who's "heart string" is tuned close enough to theirs so that both rise in the Love that truly is inside each one....but also take on a life of its own when two people meet like that......much like silence is felt more profoundly when we meditate together......
The two people are still two bodies.....two stories......but the love is one............in what you call higher love...it is not the person you bond with. You bond with love. And.....this is yoga.
And some people do meet it....but fear it....because it takes a courageous heart......to stay open in surrender....because there are no guarantees......and what happens to free will, if surrendering to love.....what happens to the ideas we have of how life should be lived....and attachment will come, but this too....if seen and tolerated until dissolved....this too love survives.
Especially if you meditate consistantly 
Often...we withdraw from love...for the same reasons we do not surrender to the Guru within. Yet love still is....luckily
After the cancer...13 years ago.....there would be a list on the desk in the office. It was a "What-would-I-do-today-if-I-knew-I-would-die-next-Wednesday"-list. It never failed.....it always involved a relationship with a loved one. Somtimes it was acknowleding the cashier in the bank that was always so open and nice (the cashier...*laughing*...not the bank)...other times it would be calling a friend....or playing with my children....or spoiling my ex husband.....or taking Trolle (the dog) to the lake for a bath.....or calling my mother-in-law......not once did the list have anything on it that didn't involve "another livin being".
"Another" is always embodied inner silence.
"Another" is always sacred.
quote:
He [Yogani] seems to minimize the potential for love between two people, loving each other, but maybe I am misinterpreting.
He is not minimizing the potential for love between two people....he sets love free.....it is elevated.....stripped from the limitation of "ordinary" love (the infatuation that never lasts) so that it can grow into the vastness that it truly is...If you read Yoganis novel "The Secrets of Wilder".....the couple in the book certainly elevated love, didn't they.....
quote:
But, still, this involves another person as the object of love. Where does the divine enter in all this?
Love is not an object.....it is not the name you are devoted to, is it? It is the light coming out of her eyes, yes? It is the Life in her....it is the embodiment of the source....this is all of her....body, spirit, breath......
quote:
I feel it (the love) working inside me as well, transforming me as much as yoga sitting practices have, only in a shorter time maybe, or so it seems.
Yes....
When life presents you with a relationship that transforms you inside......then be blessed.....and stay blessed.....and fear not
The "special someone" is Love.
Whatever happens with your sweet woman.....you keep nourishing the love by staying present...this way....nothing can ruin it. If you break up....the love is not breaking. It can never leave you.
quote:
would loving someone and attending to their needs be a kind of karma yoga, loving service for others as a demonstrating of love for the source of all things?
In giving.....not tending to "a needy person"....but giving freely to the essence....the transformation inside will continue. Life will find this channel and pour itself into it.....and through you....freedom will grow...
Enjoy....dive in...eyes closed even......only stay present
PS
And do buy her lots of flowers
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2009 : 7:44:59 PM
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Katrine,
Such a loving post, I have no words to thank you....YOU ARE Love embodied.
I think of nothing else to say to you... Your words touched me, your poem was beautiful, your message full of love and potential... It is a bit hard all my fears and past insecurities come in when in a relationship, but I know now that this is good, a unique opportunity to let go, to surrender...it's been so long...
And, yes, she is love embodied and came as a blessing, I could not have imagined. In fact I think meditation and yoga and the transformation I've felt inside since made also this happen in my life. It is all connected... Still my mind and heart find it hard to believe as they are still hurt so I go with care. There are fears and insecurities, past regrets/mistakes, etc. But I know you are right, all is needed is to be present for love to grow. I know that. And meditation is an invaluable help as well.
quote:
Love is not an object.....it is not the name you are devoted to, is it? It is the light coming out of her eyes, yes? It is the Life in her....it is the embodiment of the source....this is all of her....body, spirit, breath......
How did you know she has the most beautiful shine in her eyes?!
Thank you a lot my dear friend, your heart is huge and mine goes out to you right now.... |
Edited by - YogaIsLife on Jan 24 2009 8:19:28 PM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2009 : 9:49:58 PM
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I see it that your true lover is someone to be a companion in your path together.
And also that you can express your love for God through that person.
In my life I experience intermittent feelings of "cosmic lonliness", feeling like the only soul in the universe. Of course I see this as my ego's perception and fear, but it is nevertheless powerful. Sometimes, when I was in a relationship, and I would look deeply in her eyes I would feel that I am no longer looking at a seperate soul, but my own. But once again, it is not Anthony's soul, it is God's. Being with someone can be a challenge in this way - realizing that the closer you get to this "other person" the closer you are really getting to yourself through the ego-death of becoming one with another. I have experienced this before to be a blissful state as well.
Sometimes I have the feeling that the future of our species is to become closer with eachother in the sense that we do not have the wall of ego sperateness between us. If everyone were free of this illusion then we would be with eachtoher in the way that two lovers can be. It almost seems like practice to me, or an initiative to move in that direction. |
Edited by - anthony574 on Jan 25 2009 12:01:30 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 05:14:35 AM
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quote:
Sometimes I have the feeling that the future of our species is to become closer with eachother in the sense that we do not have the wall of ego sperateness between us. If everyone were free of this illusion then we would be with eachtoher in the way that two lovers can be. It almost seems like practice to me, or an initiative to move in that direction.
This is truly beautiful Anthony. May it be so.
quote:
In my life I experience intermittent feelings of "cosmic lonliness", feeling like the only soul in the universe. Of course I see this as my ego's perception and fear, but it is nevertheless powerful.
I can relate to this very well, as I am sure a lot of us can. It is this deep loneliness, though, that eventually leads as to the path away from the illusion into union and true happiness. Or so I hope  |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 08:25:55 AM
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| There is a connection when it is recognized, nothing more. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2009 : 7:50:04 PM
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I wrote a while ago in my blog on just this subject--I copy here for you:
"A friend of mine asked, “What is the most powerful force in the universe?” I answered without even thinking, “Love is the most powerful force in the universe.” She asked, “What is the purpose of life?” and I gave the same answer, “Love is the purpose of life.” And I thought, gosh, this Love is everywhere, it must be at the root of everything–does it answer EVERY question? And I think that, yes, Love does answer every question. I believe that Love IS at the root of everything. In fact, when I look around at the surface of life, or when I peer deeply into the depth of silent Reality, Love is the totality of it all, the woof and warp of the fabric of Creation. Even the old quotes I’ve been reciting from the Gita or the Upanishads for decades, the traditional translations, meet this criteria. This is because, when Creation is stripped of all the complex layers of relative existence, when the gunas grow silent and the true unified nature of Creation is experienced, then what we experience–”sat-chit-ananda”, or “unbounded bliss consciousness” of Brahmin IS pure Love, the content and constituent, the process and product is all nothing but Love. The Beatles had it just exactly right when they sang, “Love is all there is.”
And so… I conclude that the “godhead” (or whatever…) does indeed have an attribute–that the godhead, that fount of divinity which IS Creation itself, is nothing but Love–that when we love perfectly, we experience divinity, we contact god. Love and God are one. And so, the more important question is not “What is the most powerful force in the universe?” or “What is the purpose of life?” but rather, “Why do we love?” The answer–to know god. We love to know god. The experience of love is the experience of god. I know this today because, having lost my lover but not my love for her, I am left with the purest type of love, and I am beginning to feel in the emptiness of my broken heart, the fullness of god’s presence. Anyone who has loved their newborn baby beyond reason or boundaries has had at least a glimmer of this aspect of love–how loving feels divine, feeds us the radiance of life itself, and gives us the purity and power of truth.
This is a door that swings both ways–the door to love is god, and the door to god is love…"
I wrote that some months back, and now have something to add. "Bhakti", the yoga of devotion, stipulates that we might travel a path to God through unselfish love. That might be love of God, love of the guru, or love for your partner--any pure love will do if done correctly.
Michael
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 06:18:48 AM
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Michael,
Thank you thank you thank you.
I was actually hoping you'd write about this because I believe you know a lot about this "true love for someone else", a kind of "love guru"
Yes, for me, deep down, somehow I believe it is possible to truly love selflessly someone else and that may be my path, I don't know. I know that this particular girl is, in my eyes, Love embodied. She is almost pure love! I love the way she loves, the way she gives herself, her honesty, the way she feels and talks about love, the way love shines in her smile and in her eyes :) Yes, you can say I am in Love! But, like in all spiriutal practices, I do self-pace - I am very attentive to the way I feel inside, very careful not to build castles in the air. I really want to feel true feelings, no illusions. So my heart is opening, all I want is to see the truth, and feel true love. But, like you say, probably this two are connected = love is the truth. All I know, from what I have already felt in my life, is that love (for who or whatever - a person, a dog, a cloud, a flower, the sun) is the most beautiful feeling I have experienced and it is definitely worth sharing! In fact, it is infectious!
quote:
I know this today because, having lost my lover but not my love for her, I am left with the purest type of love, and I am beginning to feel in the emptiness of my broken heart, the fullness of god’s presence. Anyone who has loved their newborn baby beyond reason or boundaries has had at least a glimmer of this aspect of love–how loving feels divine, feeds us the radiance of life itself, and gives us the purity and power of truth.
This is beautiful. Thank you for sharing Michael.
YIL |
Edited by - YogaIsLife on Jan 26 2009 06:40:04 AM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 06:38:26 AM
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And on a side note, something I rememebered the other day.
I believe Jesus Christ was married (makes sense), as were others such as the great kryia yoga master Lahiri Mahasaya. So, they are proof that is both possible to have love for those closer to us and true universal love at the same time. I think this must be a wonderful achievement. Showing love for god and all of cretiaon also through caring and loving for the ones closer to us (family, etc.).
Thank you. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 12:30:28 PM
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Hi YIL
It was very touching to read your response too, thank you for sharing like that
You know.....the embodiment.....everybody is already "held together" by the force that is love. It is like Michael said (thank you for that beautiful post, Michael)....love is the answer...love and silence is the same....What we forget...what is not perceived....is that love is also the question.....
It is not some kind of "sordid ego"-entity that poses all the questions that is mind.....
The deep feeling that ego is an entity.......what is holding the ego together.....is also love. Love is awareness. Love/awareness is the glue that holds the ego together....hence the "reality" of it. We do not see this when enmeshed....only when the thought of "I" is seen and left to pass by....
When awareness...through meditation and self-inquiry.....gradually and instantly "withdraws" from the identification with usually first thoughts in general (unless you are very ripe), then the bodyfeeling of "I"........when this "withdrawal" naturally and effortlessly happens.....it is seen that that which "enlivened" the ego...that which gave the ego its "real" touch.....its feeling of being "deep-seated".....well, it is the Self/Silence/Awareness/Love itself! It never was "something" else. It is a paradox that it is Awarenes that is also ignorant...lost.....but that is how it is
This is why thinking about it....whatever it is..... doesn't help
So...in adoring her...the sweet woman with the shine from her eyes...:-)..what is adoring her is the same as what is adored. You too are love, YIL.
You do not have to remember this...only hear it well
quote:
It is all connected... Still my mind and heart find it hard to believe as they are still hurt so I go with care. There are fears and insecurities, past regrets/mistakes, etc.
Yes.....it is like this here too, YIL. The attachment that happened recently, f.ex.....it is often not easy when facing these issues. But like you said....it is so great that they surface...because...it allows the looking at the them. And then it is so wonderful when they dissolve....it is so worth it....to embrace...to say yes.....to what life brings in this way.
I just noticed this post by Sparkle:
quote:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=2
The technique that Sparkle describes here is very helpful.....the one where you hold whatever it is that is your issue (fear, hurt, insecurity, etc...whatever it is) in your arms and look at it like you would look at your baby (or if that is difficult to imagine..... anything you can imagine that give you the feeling of loving acceptance ). You can try it.....see if it helps dissolving whatever comes up that you feel is a hindrance to inner peace.
quote:
I believe Jesus Christ was married (makes sense), as were others such as the great kryia yoga master Lahiri Mahasaya. So, they are proof that is both possible to have love for those closer to us and true universal love at the same time. I think this must be a wonderful achievement. Showing love for god and all of cretiaon also through caring and loving for the ones closer to us (family, etc.).
Of course it is possible to both stay in a relationship and also be devoted to the sacredness inside! Life has not made a mistake here . Relationshsips are. But it is a fact....that if you walk in the same direction.....the companionship that comes with this.....the wonderful sharing of the path.....it makes all the difference. So in this respect.....if both are devoted to God/Inner silence/Awareness/Love.......then who knows what wonders might spring from such a relationship. Self-realization even ....and outpouring...........and what not
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2009 : 5:13:30 PM
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quote:
Of course it is possible to both stay in a relationship and also be devoted to the sacredness inside! Life has not made a mistake here . Relationshsips are. But it is a fact....that if you walk in the same direction.....the companionship that comes with this.....the wonderful sharing of the path.....it makes all the difference. So in this respect.....if both are devoted to God/Inner silence/Awareness/Love.......then who knows what wonders might spring from such a relationship. Self-realization even ....and outpouring...........and what not
Hi Katrine, thank you for your reply.
What I find most interesting in all this is how life seems to bring to me what I need at the moment, and when I am ready for it. It is quite magical. And this has accelerated since I started doing Deep Meditation. The way things fit together is quite amazing. |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 05:30:10 AM
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quote:
Of course it is possible to both stay in a relationship and also be devoted to the sacredness inside! Life has not made a mistake here . Relationshsips are. But it is a fact....that if you walk in the same direction.....the companionship that comes with this.....the wonderful sharing of the path.....it makes all the difference. So in this respect.....if both are devoted to God/Inner silence/Awareness/Love.......then who knows what wonders might spring from such a relationship. Self-realization even ....and outpouring...........and what not
I think there is one more thing I'd like to say about this.
I've noticed that, in contrast to most (or at least a lot) of the people in this forum doing AYP or in any other "spiritual paths", I did not start meditating to find "God". I started because I needed to feel balance within myself, I needed to put my life together again, I did it for health and well-being. I know there is nothing wrong with that because the benefits are there anyway and I got all the benefits (and more!) that I needed from DM alone this past 8 months or so. But still, I don't see myself "striving" for enlightenment. That was not my purpose from the beggining anyway and it was a concept hard to grasp at first. Especially because it was a concept, and I was tired of concepts and trying to get away from them all. That was why Yoga appealed to me. I actually was surprised that there were practices and many many people devoted to them to achieve union with "God"! Maybe people have some kind of concept of Him/Her. I spent a long period of my life imagining a concept only to be tired at the end.
The way I see it, what comes comes. I enjoy doing DM and believe I will do it for the rest of my life. Because it works. It has brought me really wonderful things and the much sought stability I needed. It helped me regain the will to live and the possibility to enjoy life's simple pleasures, that I so much missed. And life now is bringing me love, for example, and like with everything else I flow with it. I am not going to renounce a relationship with another because it might be, theoretically, a "deterrement to enlightnment". It seems foolish to me. I have in my nature enough Bhakti or Desire for God I realised. Since being born I always been fascinated by the miracle of life but my mistake was being too closed in myself and trying to achieve this union with god (of course I did not call it that then) by forcing my entrance into this mystery, into the very fabric of life. Of course I did not know what I was doing, I was playing with fire, and got burned! That is why I say Yoga Is Life becase that was the only thing that brought me back to life, to the present moment, away from all the philosophical and mystical images in my head. It helped me regain the balance I need to see life for what it is.
Anyway, I am getting confusing here I guess. I guess what I want to say is that I don't search enlightnemet, I do Yoga because it enhances the quality of my life and brings love and joy into it. If enlightenment comes with it, fine, if it doesn't fine as well. I am not ready to force anything else in my life anymore. I also don't beleive there are restricted paths to god. I think all paths lead to god. God is everything so there really is no escaping God, is there? I find this in my life, time and time again.
Regarding a potential partner also practicing yoga - well, if she is interested fine, if she isn't fine as well. As long as things work out between us I am happy. As long as there is love and companionship I am happy. In any case, these things are infectious (she has noticed, of course, the glow and joy that seems to shine in me and I do tell her that's the yoga working ) and if she gets curious maybe she will try it. But she might not feel drawn to it, and I have to accept it. Somehow I know I'll be ok if I keep on meditating myself. It will be easier, if I do this, to know what is right and what is wrong and to keep flowing smoothly and with little friction with the river of life. That's the "easy path" to God
P.S.: Thanks for listening my friends I'd like to say I find these forums to be a truly wonderful community. I find myself many times amazed and filled with joy for these forums. There is a lot of Love in here! |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 07:19:19 AM
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Hi YogaIsLife
Thank you for that beautiful post
I am at work.....and invoicing is needed......but...just some words:
quote:
I've noticed that, in contrast to most (or at least a lot) of the people in this forum doing AYP or in any other "spiritual paths", I did not start meditating to find "God".
I didn't either. When meditation started more than 20 years ago......the last thing in mind was God. And it stayed like that for a long time....many, many years.
quote:
But still, I don't see myself "striving" for enlightenment
This is a blessing.....no striving ever took anyone directly into the present moment.
quote:
I want to say is that I don't search enlightnemet, I do Yoga because it enhances the quality of my life and brings love and joy into it.
This is what the light is. Love and joy is enlightenment. You are already being lit up from within
quote:
I am not going to renounce a relationship with another because it might be, theoretically, a "deterrement to enlightnment".
I was married for 21 years, YIL. That relationship, and taking care of our two daughters, is the main reason God/Love/Awareness surfaced within.
quote:
Regarding a potential partner also practicing yoga - well, if she is interested fine, if she isn't fine as well. As long as things work out between us I am happy.
Yes.....my ex husband was not at all interested in anything even remotely spiritual But that doesn't make him any less of a spirit, does it? We had a very loving relationship for many years. I cannot think of any other human being that has taught me more about who I am not He was a terrific mirror. The past 8 years of the marriage was a challenge.....but through these difficulties ....we both evolved out of our own skin, so to say :-)He is still not even remotely interested in anything spiritual.....:-).....and I still love him More so than when we met.
In following the guru within.....even if only one of us was engaged this way....only one of us did the inward turning.....but not a single day of that relationship was a waste.
Just wanted to say that, YIL.
You cannot lose if you surrender to Life
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2009 : 07:26:55 AM
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| You are sooo sweet Katrine. THANK YOU again for such an uplifting post and for sharing a bit of your own personal story. Life Is Wonderful |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2009 : 12:31:05 PM
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Hi Y.I.L.!
(I do agree with your nickname! ;-))
I started meditating decades ago for the same reason as you, same thing with tantra techniques.
Sex (and I.M.O., meditation too) is neither spiritual or aspiritual. By acquiring tantric techniques, we make it spiritual.
Tantra opens a shortcut past an embodied god (Ishwara - for ex., Christ, Krishna, etc.) directly to the universal spirit, Brahman (in that sense, the roots of Zen Buddhism are in Tantra).
You're not banned at all from having a God, or from traveling to India to kiss the feet of a Guru, but you don't have to. You might even be an ateist (as long as you're not a fundamentalist - which of course applies to all kinds of faith). Tolerance and believing that there's a lot more to sense beyond the range of our senses is enough. This makes Tantra more emotional than classical yoga which was firmly established in Vedanta and the philosopher era of India, by celibate yogis. So, using and developing your intuinion is a good landmark in Tantra.
The shortcut rationale: both Maya (the manifest world we live in) and Ishwara (the gods) are manifestations of the same universal spirit (Brahman, or in the individual soul, Atman). So, when I perceive/adore the presence of the spirit directly in "manifestations" such as a sunrise, a titt of my "Shakti", a forrest, a mountain, her sigh, her laugh, waves of the surf, or 4 or 14 hours of tantric lovemaking, I often think Ishwara would make just a much longer way to the very same place (but I still respect others taking the long way - they sure have reasons for their decision).
She's my gateway straight to the universal spirit, but I don't think it's selfish because I'm her gateway just as much.
Also, you seem to try to solve the "1 Shakti but many manifestations" equation; so far, I haven't arrived at a fully universal solution there :-)
I've tried both life styles and IMHO., when it feels right to be a couple (BtW., the commonest way of life among dedicated tantrics where I live), go for it. The deeper the love the easier the progress from mere technique to seeing and adoring everything that's divine in her (which is a lot, given eyes wide-open). The Vama Marga (left hand path of non-ejac orgasms) is not a robot program; the man opens and wakes up the Shakti from her Mouladhara (root) while she opens him from his Anahata (heart, emotions) - it's really two-way and easier within a couple (in spiritual sex however, we continue "opening" the heart to include the whole universe into the embrace). Ideally, when you've find meaning in everyday life (work, study, volunteering, sports, yoga, whatever) you'll have a "love-affair" just as fiery with it as you've with your Shakti.
Now to the former supposedly eternal bond. As we adore directly through Maya, we must accept change: the key difference between Maya and Brahman is that Maya is constantly changing. To let her open my heart equals to make myself vulnerable (not to mention becoming a father = making oneself extremely vulnerable for 20 years). Is it worth it? Yes , every inch of it, IMO. So how shall I stay mentally sane in face of the fact that quite a few relationships (including my ex) are broken off these days? By focusing on what I can do instead of the fact that sh*t happens. Instead of tryng to own or control her, let her bath in your overwhelming love (prevention better than cure...)
Show her it's more intense than her ex., day afte day, month after month. Being a loveful and intense lover makes the man attractive to his Shakti (and, would she unexpectedly break it off, attractive to her successor; so, nothing to worry about - just give, give, give). And remember that body and soul are one. The eternal-bond feeling in many cases comes from deep orgasms that are triggered from her G-spot or from the cervix of her uterus (if you're familiar with yoni massage, you already know where to aim). Of course it's not a substitute for love, but it's a great vehicle, or sky rocket. Individuals differ of course, but these orgs can take long periods of repeated long stimulation (both massage and penetration in a suitable position) under mutual trust, openness, cuddliness and relying on each other. Many females are "born Tantric", so they prefer to describe the feeling and the metaphysics of it in very strong words whereas te male pole still has to provide the physical basis of it (willingly and enthusiastically, IMHO. :-))
So the best case scenario will be you expressing stronger and stronger love (in kisses, mimics, gestures, embraces, sounds, words, sexual techniques, whatever way both of you like) even in face of her initial hang-ups, sexual history, reluctance etc. - then, gradually accelerate your intensity like an avalanche or wildfire which no hang-ups can stop. Remember transfiguration, a god making love to a goddess. Finally, she might see a bond more eternal than the previous one... Some New-Age people argue that we've a maximum capacity of 3-4 full-depth relationships per incarnation. IMO., we're individuals, not robots, so if there's any such number att all, it probably differs greatly across incarnations (I'm sure my parents had a capacity of 1 and they had an amazingly intense happy relationship, claiming 1.0 to be the norm.)
The worst case scenario is that a man's loving energy will be accepted enthusiastically in his next long relationship (that's what happened to me - an unexpectedly divine worst case scenario, I'd say :-)) Either way, it's a practice rather than a state; having fallen in love makes it a lot easier for you, just take your chance and practice. Your guru is within.
Enjoy!
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2009 : 2:20:51 PM
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A man's love for his partner (mated for life, I would hope) IS the same as his love of God. Or, it should be. That's the path--finding god through the love of another--seeking inner self in the self of another. Transcending the limitations of one's small ego in the unbounded giving in devotion to your beloved with no expectation of anything in return. I mated for life, but as it turned out, it was HER life, not mine. After she died (35 years together), I was alone and, after 35 years of Bhakti devotion toward my wife, I was truly and totally alone. I thought I'd gone as far as I could along this path with my late wife, and that I'd have to either take it from there in my next, or travel a different path from there in what remained of this life. I was VERY wrong, and the Goddess had someone else for me to pick me up exactly where I'd left off. Now remarried (for life, again!), I find my path accelerating greatly with my new partner, for whatever reasons. I suppose that, once blessed and with a taste of grace, momentum is gained to the point that progress must continue along the same path. I learn, grow, evolve and edge ever closer to truth moment by moment as Unity envelopes us.
Nanaste,
Michael |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 11:31:59 AM
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Hey Hatha Teacher! Thanks for the wonderful and profound post
The problem is not so much her giving herself to me, it is more me giving myself to her I wonder if I ever really loved someone, as I believe (and your post and other here like Michael's prove it) true deep love is possible. I want to feel it. But it's like my girlfriend says: Love happens, you don't make it happen. In other words, it's not because one wants that it will happen, it just happens, and when we notice it, we are already too far into it.
At least that is what she says, and she does seem quite an expert on Love!
And then this "spiritual path" came into my life...and when it did, love from someone else also came in...and even before she appeared I realised I started falling in love with the spiritual path, with the goal...so I wonder, will I be able to love her if I am in love with the path as well?...what does this all mean?...I'd like to, though. |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2009 : 3:38:45 PM
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Hi YIL,
Being in love with both her and the Tantric path is fine, that's the way it's meant to be, ideally: Worshiping the world through a loved one; but don't bother much about goals, the road is the goal. Just be there, be present, like a relaxed yet acting witness - and when 5 hours feel like 5 minutes, show her you enjoy every second anyway.
In meditation, we learn to stay relaxed and focused amid a stream of thoughts popping up, in love we learn to stay relaxed and focused amid a stream of thrills and sensations, cultivating a detachment amid of a passion: opening our heart for Shakti, loving deeply, yet not clinging, not attached to a goal, not demanding a reward. Remember Shakti is form while Siva (the male) is pure consciousness...
Also, "Love expertess" for a woman is quite a bit about relating to you, rather than expertise in general, so that may be a good start.
I agree love tends to "happen", but I tend to help it along a little using Tantric techniques. A common belief in yoga is that love (or at least mutual strong attraction) at first sight happens because of a mutual love i some previous life - so, considering the fact that humans/primates have been around for millions of years, you might have met before.
I think if it all would turn out to be wrong, unexpectedly, my gut feeling will tell me then. But if I drop the chance to avoid the risk of pain, I'll never know at all.
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2009 : 5:37:16 PM
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That's great advice Hatha Teacher, thank you, it inspires.
Let's see where this road leads us...
All the best! |
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Where does Love for Another fits in all this?
