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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 07 2005 : 01:43:52 AM
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I'm really glad that my practices have reached the point that I get eager at the appointed time each day, akin to the hunger at mealtimes or sleepiness at bedtime.
However, I'm finding something weird. The more geared up I am to practice, the more I feel wavy spiritual bliss boiling over and every nadi pulling me to my meditation mat, the worse my meditation goes. Tumults of energy, not enough letting go, very little stillness.
The good sessions are the ones when I feel like I'm too distracted and too busy, but grudgingly go put in my time.
Is this just my weirdness, or is anyone experiencing the same? |
Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 05 2007 09:00:19 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2005 : 01:45:59 AM
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I ought to note that practice sessions are truly neither "good" or "bad", and you can't judge the progress made in a given session by the experiences, moods, and other superfial indicators.
But anyone who's ever meditated knows what a frustrating session feels like. So there! :) |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2005 : 09:04:46 AM
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| Yes Jim, I have been feeling the same thing and was wondering if I should ask the very same question. I am so eager to meditate, however the days I don't feel like meditating and as you put it "grudgingly go put in my time" are the days I feel like my meditation was really good. So yes, I would like some advice on this too... |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2005 : 10:06:29 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
I'm really glad that my practices have reached the point that I get eager at the appointed time each day, akin to the hunger at mealtimes or sleepiness at bedtime.
However, I'm finding something weird. The more geared up I am to practice, the more I feel wavy spiritual bliss boiling over and every nadi pulling me to my meditation mat, the worse my meditation goes. Tumults of energy, not enough letting go, very little stillness.
The good sessions are the ones when I feel like I'm too distracted and too busy, but grudgingly go put in my time.
I get this as well Jim especially with interrupted practices I always seem to go deeper afterwards
Blessings
RICHARD |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2005 : 11:23:43 AM
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Hi All:
Very interesting experiences.
It goes to show what expectations can do, and the lack of them. It is normal enough. I'm the one who said, "You will be rushing to your meditation seat." It is one more step to let go of that and move beyond. In time we can develop an equanimity about practices, while at the same time remaining 100% committed. That is the benefit of keeping a steady "habit" that transcends how we are feeling at the moment.
Like so many things spiritual, there is paradox here. By the time we are experiencing stillness and ecstatic bliss around the clock, we will be pretty calm about it. Just another day of the divine, and just another day of cultivating cosmic life on the cushion.
We can get used to anything , yes? 
The guru is in you. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2005 : 12:29:58 PM
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note---I edited this about a jillion times. Sorry, Just trying hard to be clear!
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
By the time we are experiencing stillness and ecstatic bliss around the clock, we will be pretty calm about it.
Yogani, I'm actually really integrating both the stillness and bliss into my daily life these days. The best way I can put it is that I'm rarely more than a couple breaths away from the feeling that I wouldn't change a thing in the universe - a feeling I'd previously only had at peak moments (I know that's not enlightenment, but I'm not sure I need much more in this lifetime...and I'm grateful to yoga and AYP for getting me here).
So I'm not sure that's the element needed to smooth out this perverse practice effect. And I'm not greedily rubbing my hands together, expecting to launch into inspiring and entertaining inner spaces as I sit down to meditate. I'm pretty calm about it, actually.
That said, I'm sure you're right that this just simply must be a function of expectation at some level. But how does one even out the expectation? I suppose, spiritually, it's a matter of surrendering desire for the fruits of practice. On the other hand, that one desire is, according to the sages, the sole desire that's ok to maintain....at least until the very final stages.
Maybe doing some asana before practice would help. You suggest that anyway, and I've never done it, but maybe it would help even out the energy and synchronize the "point of departure" before each practice session. Thing is, that's something pranayama's supposed to accomplish, no?
One clue: for me, at least, it's a body thing. The hunger/sleepiness analogy was quite tight. I feel a tingling/pulsing in my spine, heart, ajna, etc...all the hot spots. Very pleasant, very close to what happens in meditation. It's like the meditation starts without me, does that make sense? And, again, I remain calm about it - as I do during meditation. So why are my sessions begun thus always frustrating? |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 07 2005 1:00:06 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2005 : 12:37:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by azaz932001
especially with interrupted practices I always seem to go deeper afterwards
I may be taking you out of context, but this is an issue for me, too. I'm in what feels like a very fruitful period of meditation, going quite deep, and I'm finding myself popping up to the surface (thinking about worldly things, even with eyes open) a few times per session, as I did back when I first started to meditate. In fact, those interludes last longer now than they did when I was a beginner. But at this stage it feels good, not like a misfire. And immediately afterwards I go MUCH deeper (and quite smoothly, with no trying whatsoever). It's almost as if I need a "breather". It feels right and I'm not fighting it. I return to I Am and it's instant and complete, like flicking a switch.
I don't know....I'll never understand the mechanism, and it probably wouldn't be efficacious to try to understand it. This is clearly an intermediary thing....
Thought of the week: Surrender is good. And you can always surrender more. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2005 : 1:16:59 PM
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Hi Jim:
Well, as we settle in over the long term, that is how we even out the expectations. Like a 747 jet pilot with lots of experience. For him or her, flying that thing is just another day at the office. For you or me it is like, "Holy mackerel! We'll never get off the ground with this thing!" Training is important. But, ultimately, the difference is experience ... time in the practice. When it becomes part of us, we no longer anticipate anything, not even subconsciously ... that's why I used the word "habit."
On asanas, pranayama and meditation, these each go progressively deeper, in that order. That's why they are separate limbs in the Yoga Sutras. They work together in sequence. Maybe one or two will be enough, but all three is optimal. If I had to pick one, it would be meditation. If I had to pick two, it would be pranayama and meditation. Asanas come into it third, with all due respect to the vast and thriving asana industry. It doesn't take much to stretch the nerves out enough for a smooth transition from on-the-go activity to pranayama and deep meditation: 5-10 minutes, which most hatha yoga teachers would scoff at. But that is all it takes with all the other horsepower we have here.
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2005 : 1:47:17 PM
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| Thanks, Yogani. FWIW, I do 90 mins of asana a day (hey, it's my thing, has been for years). But none at all prior to pranayama/meditation. So maybe I'll do a few poses before and see how it goes. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2005 : 4:22:53 PM
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Just a follow-up. I think I understand this. When meditation is deep, it's not that you go somewhere. There's no you and there's no going...there's just the vastness of "there". But when you come from worldly life to sit in meditation, with mind in control, that mind, remembering the pleasant earlier meditative experience, says "ok, let's go there!", and tries to nagivate you. And, again, it's not somewhere to go, so you're just going around in circles. Sometimes the mind is an adversary in meditation (we all know that!) but sometimes it sincerely wants to help. At such times, you've got to calm down and detach from all that.
I was once invited out to a very good, very expensive restaurant. And I was extremely hungry....to the point of wild-eyed animal craving that I knew I wouldn't be able to really appreciate the meal. I got a slice of pizza, then headed off to dinner.
The analogy isn't precise, but it's important not to go too geared up (even with what you deem to be bhakti) before meditation. if that happens, take a minute to calm down, detach from any urgentness and renounce desires for a particular result, and/or move your awareness from head to heart. Don't get in the habit of this, though. Best to keep practices simple (the beauty of AYP!). But on those days when you feel vigorously propelled to meditate, this will help. You can't meditate from a running start!! :)
I should rename this thread branch "when bhakti does you wrong..." |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2005 : 7:50:08 PM
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Hari Om
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Hello Folks,
Jim I must say you truely are prolific! Thank you for your open dialog and sharing.
My experiences are dwarfted by yours and I applaud your progress!
My experinces are all around dispassion to the surrounding environment; around little to no desire for things except Brahman.
The whole notion of "seeing" what the rishi's have written/cognized and understanding thier notion brings upliftment and meaning to this path - true growth via knowledge.
One of my favorate quotes " you may restrain your breath a thousand times daily, but ignorance ( avidya) will not vanish with out the wisdom of the Upanishads".
All glory to HIM who breathes out the Ved.
Frank in San Diego
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2005 : 12:58:46 AM
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quote:
My experiences are dwarfed by yours.
I don't know what to do with that comment. Look, take inspiration from what I'm trying to offer. I'm not trying to show off...I'm hoping desperately to provide lighter fluid so you can leapfrog and dwarf me! That way you can offer me inspiration so *I* can leapfrog further!
We all ought to leave breadcrumb trails for one another when we've figured out a particular twist or turn (the Internet is an awesome thing!) Enjoy whichever breadcrumbs help but for goodness' sake don't compare yourself to anybody. We're not progressing or attaining here (it's not like we're learning mambo dancing), we're just wiping crud off our windshields. Nothing more, nothing less. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Nov 25 2005 01:15:52 AM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2005 : 10:47:44 AM
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Dear Jim,Frank,
'My experiences are dwarfted by yours '
That is all they are experiences and no guide to levels of spiritua;ity.Of course we all probably use them as a benchmark for progress, rightly or wrongly.
Unfortunayely when we feel like we are having good meditations we often fall into the trap of expectations and try to repeat these each time.Lets be honest wouldn't we all like to be in a state of yoga nidra each time we meditate rather than have all spontaneous thoughts driving us mad? Life isn't like that though is it, regretfully? Sometimes we have deep 'satisfying' meditation where we wish we had never awoke from, this is correct.Other times we have busy thoughts all the time and find it difficult to focus on the mantra, this is also correct.The thing is we simply focus on the mantra without forceful concentration and whatever we get is correct for us at that time.The times when we get the busy mind (which inexperienced meditators think is incorrect)is the time of clearing and purifying. My guru likens it to a tank of muddy water that keeps getting stirred up and then settling before repeating the sequence. As the mud settles and we get clearing then we find the other times get deeper and we break into the superconscious for longer periods.
my gur told others I was going to India to receive shaktipat but I had to correct her and say I was going with no expectations and hopefully I would be given shaktipat if guruji considered me ready.To me meditation is the same, have no expectations and any progress and expereinces are a bonus.Nobody said it was going to be easy when you got up this morning.LOL
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2005 : 3:59:18 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~
Hello(Namaste) Jim/Riptez,
thanks for the note, and not to worry as Riptiz frames the subject well. It’s the experiences that you are having that are enjoyable to hear.
I applaud all progress (great and small); my ego is left at the door on this subject.
I have heard/read and personally listened to some of the most wonderful experiences from great sadhu's, those on this list and various friends. It’s enjoyable to hear/see how consciousness has the play and display within ones progress. This I applaud - I am not awe stuck.
THE SECRET to happiness is finding happiness in other's joy/progress.
I appreciate all the "bread crumbs".
My time has not come...my experiences fit my progress. There comes a time for me ( ~ 2008) for things to change and will let time unfold. In the interim I continue my program that has 4 parts:
a. Viveka or discrimination (what is truth/untruth)
b. vairagya or dispassion - not getting caught up in "this"
c. shadsampat - 6 virtues
d. mumukshutva - the (strong)desire for Liberation - experienced
these days 7x24x365
Some things come easy, some not - all are fueled from the infusion of pure consciousness via meditation.
patu sarvaih svarupair nah sada sarvatra sama-gah
May the Lord, who is all-pervasive in His various forms, protect us everywhere.
Peace
Frank in San Diego
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2007 : 09:00:19 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Perverse Practice Observation
