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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 09 2009 : 5:38:00 PM
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Namaste Friends,
Lately my wife has expressed a concern over our sex life. She does not practice yoga, meditation or tantra in any way. Recently she told me that she was frustrated with our sex life and it was making her less likely to instigate sex. She says that she has a real problem with me staying pre-orgasmic. Up until about a month or a little longer ago I had been using the blocking techniques (either manual or by pelvic contractions) but after a certain realization I had I decided to leave the blocking technique alone and move on to just staying pre-orgasmic. Her problem is that she feels like she can no longer sexually satisfy me. This is not the case and I have tried to explain it to her, but no amount of words seems to make any difference. She still wants to me at least HAVE an orgasm during sex. If I don't she feels like she isn't doing her part. Has anyone had to deal with this with thier partner and have any suggestions for me? I don't want to continue to upset her but I am not about to start blocking again. I LOVE staying pre-orgasmic. The day after I feel like I have a "mushroom afterglow" if anyone knows what I'm talking about.
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2009 : 6:13:15 PM
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Hi Carson
Thanks for sharing 
quote:
The day after I feel like I have a "mushroom afterglow" if anyone knows what I'm talking about.
Absolutely  (Hope that counts even though I am a female and actually have never tasted "mushrooms")
quote:
I don't want to continue to upset her but I am not about to start blocking again. I LOVE staying pre-orgasmic.
Hmm....this is a challenge...
What can I say.....If you compromise with something like this....your heart will suffer....and if your heart suffers, it will eventually ruin the relationship. So.......don't give up being honest with her about it. Don't give up explaining. Has she read the book you reccomend these days? "Real love"?
Give her time to understand. Hers is also a conditioned response. I guess she is not interested in meditation, right....
Well, she will be indirectly influenced by your transformation, Carson.
Let's see what others here say.
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2009 : 7:47:14 PM
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I think if you make it her choice whether to prolong the session or not, it'd work best. My opinion is that your relationship is much more important than your spiritual development. Because it takes a lot of spiritual development to give up our own desires for the desires of our loved one. And what's more important on our spiritual path than ensuring others are happy...especially ones we promise to take care of.
Plus, women just seem to know more than us men. Maybe there's a good reason why she's making this difficult. I would trust her intuition and listen to her no matter what. Especially when it comes to what goes on in the bed.
So here's what I think you should do:
I think being preorgasmic should be kind of like a sex game, where the wife is in full control and SHE is the one that's stopping when you're at the point of no return. That way she'll easily see that she turns you on. It's also good, because if she wants, she'll push you past your point of control. It'd be better if you were tied up so that you couldn't have any influence in the situation (if you two are comfortable enough with that).
Forcing yourself to stay preorgasmic is just another ego game. It doesn't little for your real development. As you've experienced in the past, sexual tantra is about the real bond between two people. The love. Strengthen that bond in any way you can, rather than being selfish. Surrender your control for a while, and trust in what she thinks is best.
But if it does come down to you not being turned on anymore by her, then that's something else entirely. If that's the case, then it'll show if you guys do what I suggested...
Good luck man. |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2009 : 10:28:56 PM
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I think compromise is good. Meet her halfway (or 1/4)...have an orgasm 1 out of 4 times, ya know?
I would recommend she either read through the forums and the many times this issue has come up, or about the wonderful experience of male tantric experience. also, recommend some books on the subject - I am thinking of "Peace Between the Sheets", or "Urban Tantra". |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 01:53:42 AM
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This is my take on it:
Never compromise! Compromise is going to work a short while, then something else will come up to stir things between you. This is just a symptom of something else. It's not about your orgasm at all. It's about her anxiety, fear of the unknown and a wish to control things. If you start asking what her worries are you'll be able to go deeper in your communication with eachother.
A good sentence for her to finish would be this:
"If you don't get an orgasm, it means............" and she might say "I can no longer satisfy you", and then continue the thought chain: "If I can no longer satisfy you, it means........"... and the whole line of thoughts around it can be investigated. You'll probably find that the fear is around something completely different, and the easy part to pick on is you having orgasm or not.
I'm certain that life will put us together with a partner that serves our journey. When a partner no longer can serve us in that way, life will find a way to break that relationship up eventually. Life has only one purpose: To wake us up, to expand the consciousness. It does not care which partner you are with. It will always be the one who will push your next button. Your partner is clearly serving you at the moment by serving a "problem" to solve! Congrats!
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 03:15:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
She says that she has a real problem with me staying pre-orgasmic. Up until about a month or a little longer ago I had been using the blocking techniques (either manual or by pelvic contractions) but after a certain realization I had I decided to leave the blocking technique alone and move on to just staying pre-orgasmic.
Hey Carson,
I've runned a few years ago on a similar situation with my wife but would like to have more details on what your call staying pre-orgasmic versus blocking technique & non-ejaculatory orgam. Maybe a key-step phases description would help the thread here.
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
It'd be better if you were tied up so that you couldn't have any influence in the situation (if you two are comfortable enough with that).
Hum, I would not do this for the moment because your wife has no energy work knowledge & could blow your vessels dangerously with shakti-dominant-submissive rituals. See this thread for more info eventually http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3699
quote:
Originally posted by emc
Never compromise!
I totally concur with emc.
Albert
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 12:20:36 PM
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Carson--
In a marriage, compromise walks hand in hand with the commitment you've made to one another. Your marriage is built on compromise, and anyone here who tells you different has not weathered and nurtured and enjoyed a marriage lasing a lifetime. You are in this together, and that is primary--the true nature of Bhakti (one of the primary spiritual practices for the householder) IS to give over one's own desires to those of your beloved. You stand, in the long run, to gain much more than you lose. Also, realize this--this whole non-ejaculatory orgasm thing is only a step on the ladder, not the final destination--as in all things spiritual, we seek to transcend the path and live the true destination, which, as always, is Samadhi, self-realization, sat-chit-ananda--inner peace and outer radiant joy. One CAN stay in that wonderful place, once arived at, by merely being, with no DOING involved. Blocking, staying ahead, or next to or anywhere during sex ceases to be an issue--one simply IS, and bliss enfolds. Orgasm, ejaculation--that all falls away as any sort of concern and is replaced with that state of grace we ultimately seek through all of this. Attachment to any technique in the face of real life is attachment just the same, and we know where attachment leads--to suffering. Orgasm FOR you beloved, what a gift to give her, especially in light of what she wants and how she feels. Yes--enjoy the minutes or hours you can stay pre-orgasmic with her--although many women do not wish lovemaking to last for an hour or three, these marathon sessions (which are only enabled by your developing abilities to control orgasm) can lead HER to the same bliss you are finding--AND with the added bonus of you both arriving at a place of mutual satisfaction, having given to one another all, and thereby received the same. You have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain by going with HER flow and getting to where she wishes to lead you. Accompany her there with your heart radiant in the glow of your love for her and your soul flowing into hers--You will very much enjoy both the journey and the ultimate destination, trust me. I've been through some of these same issues, both with my late wife and my new bride. I never had time to resolve them with my late wife--but ended up, by default, giving myself over to her before she died--my ultimate and final months of sacrifices to her returned more to me than I could ever have imagined in terms of self-knowledge and spiritual evolution. My new bride has enabled me to continue my spiritual path in challenging and different ways--our tantric sessions (which occur almost nightly, sometimes more than once a day...!) have shown to me what I am now telling you--orgasm and ejaculation, while important steps in tantric methodology, are only vehicles to get us to a destination. Once in the driveway, don't continue sitting in the car! Get out, go inside and enjoy the comforts of home!!
Michael |
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ymladris
Czech Republic
20 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 12:22:57 PM
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I love the feeling of "doing my part", eg. seeing the man losing control. because i feel like The Woman.
Carson, do you show her how much you are enjoying her Goddessness, how she totally turns you up, how you feel the pleasure of her energy etc.? Are you open?
I assume you want to satisfy her, she wants to satisfy you. Imagine how does she feel... and help her to fulfill her wish/need/desire to be a good lover for you.
It's beautiful
good luck |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 1:08:55 PM
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Hi Carson
Just remember that your heart never lies. You have already said that you will not cause her pain over this. I loved Michaels post....because really....giving your desires away is enriching in ways we cannot fathom. So is staying true to what is resonating within you. This is also a giving away. In my experience, these two are one and the same. Things are never about "right" and "wrong" according to any set standard. So - as in all other areas of life - only each moment with your wife can reveal what is honoring both these give aways. It is compromising with this that will cause suffering.
Just continue to listen with an open heart.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 1:49:56 PM
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| Wow. What a lot of advice....thank you all. I am going to respond to each of you individually if that's ok. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 2:00:24 PM
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Hi Katrine and than you again for all you helpful advice and coorospondence!
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Absolutely (Hope that counts even though I am a female and actually have never tasted "mushrooms")
Yeah, your sex has nothing to do with it. Males and females alike can enjoy the "afterglow" of eating mushrooms. And I'm sure you've felt something similar despite never eating mush yourself
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Hmm....this is a challenge...
What can I say.....If you compromise with something like this....your heart will suffer....and if your heart suffers, it will eventually ruin the relationship. So.......don't give up being honest with her about it. Don't give up explaining. Has she read the book you reccomend these days? "Real love"?
No she hasn't read Real Love, although I have explained almost the entire book to her and have put into practice all the suggestions of the book and she can see the difference it's made in me and has said so many times. I wouldn't give up being honest now for the world. No worries there.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Give her time to understand. Hers is also a conditioned response. I guess she is not interested in meditation, right....
Well, she will be indirectly influenced by your transformation, Carson.
I will try to give her time to understand, but I fear she understands already but still has a major problem with it despite. No, she is not interested in meditation but she is definitely effected by my transformation. Thank you for the advice.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 10 2009 2:27:06 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 2:07:57 PM
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Hi Carson,
I have been through this a couple of times and most recently with my current partner when our relationship began. Some partners have the capacity to have tantra experiences and others don't. Some can develop them as time goes on. When they are able to feel the tantra energy flows along with you, there is no debate, when they can't it is important as Michael mentions to be sensitive to that and find ways to meet half way.
On both occasions in the last few years with partners who were not into tantra, they both initially wanted me to have "traditional" ejaculatory orgasms and didn't completely believe my claim that I was as satisfied or more satisfied when I didn't ejaculate. I took emc's approach initially and asked questions along the lines about why it was important to them for me to ejaculate and once the root cause reasons were found, I helped them unattach from the untrue ideas they had about my satisfaction with open communication and getting them to inquire through conversation.
Both times it was primarily related to the idea that they didn't believe that I could truly be satisfied without ejaculating. So I would explain that I had orgasmic sensations throughout and that these were far more satisfying than the other option. I would also show them how they satisfied me and exactly what satisfied me when we were intimate. I also asked them to inquire if it was absolutely true or certain that I couldn't be satisfied if I didn't ejaculate and I explained how I felt an energy loss and more fatigue when I did. I also spoke about the positives for me when I didn't ejaculate in terms of my raw satisfaction with the whole intimate experience and how I would feel so much better afterward etc.
I also adopted the philosophy that it was important for my partner to feel satisfied and if that meant having an ejaculatory orgasm from time to time, it would make me happy for her to be satisfied more deeply and secure in our love. It becomes a loving gesture this way, it becomes about them and I always find the energy loss from ejaculation with my partner far less than if it happens accidentally during any solo practice sessions. An ejaculatory orgasm once in a while isn't the end of the world. Flowing in love is the way to go.
Good luck!
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 2:24:22 PM
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I have lately been in the same situation. I meet men who say they want to satisfy me in every way, they love seeing a woman enjoy the act, they want to see me have an orgasm. When I say orgasm doesn't satisfy me, and they insist that they want to continue to fondle my genitals, well... doesn't it become very clear they are not in any way interested in satisfying me, as claimed? I say stroking my back would satisfy me more - they totally lose interest in "seeing a woman enjoy the act". On the contrary, they actually just want to satisfy themselves, using me as the tool for their satisfaction. Would letting them continue to do that be an enlightened act? I don't think so. If I'm not enlightened and find bliss through giving my own desires up as suggested would be possible above, I would simply be a prostitute, agreeing to it because I probably gain something else. If not money, perhaps attention or confirmation of some kind or a peaceful relationship. This would be a compromise with the inner will of the heart, with the radical honesty to oneself.
For me, it's no difference when man and woman switches roles in this scenario.
But everybody is different, and I'm just drawing a parallell to my own experiences, and I trust Carzon will know what's best for him anyway! |
Edited by - emc on Jan 10 2009 2:42:13 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 2:26:04 PM
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Hi Scott,
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I think if you make it her choice whether to prolong the session or not, it'd work best. My opinion is that your relationship is much more important than your spiritual development. Because it takes a lot of spiritual development to give up our own desires for the desires of our loved one. And what's more important on our spiritual path than ensuring others are happy...especially ones we promise to take care of.
Wow, not quite sure what to think of this Scott....thank you for putting in some words for "the other side". Personally I have always felt that "I am born alone, I will die alone" and therefor the only thing I can truly be concerned with is my own spiritual developement. You definitely don't seem to see things this way. And just to clarify, the issue is not whether or not to prolong the session. The issue is how to "end" it basically. Since I don't orgasm and I always make her orgasm, it is hard to know when to stop since there is nothing to indicate it is time to stop. (my orgasm) And since we have a somewhat anti-climactic (or at least that is how she sees it) ending, I think this causes her to feel I am not satisfied. And no amount of me telling her I am satisfied seems to make a difference.
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
And what's more important on our spiritual path than ensuring others are happy
My connection to God? The awakening of my spiritual nervous system?
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Plus, women just seem to know more than us men. Maybe there's a good reason why she's making this difficult. I would trust her intuition and listen to her no matter what. Especially when it comes to what goes on in the bed.
I don't know about this. First off my wife is not the least bit spiritual. She has no desire to connect and I think could care less about MY journey as well. To me this seems a little selfish. Maybe on both our parts I guess. I should also mention that my wife is like no other woman I have had sex with. SHE doesn't care if she orgasms. And she is VERY hard to get to the point of orgasm. There is only 1 position (and through oral sex) that it is possible for her to achieve orgasm in, and she is very much only concerned with me having an orgasm. She was most likely sexually abused as a child, don't know for sure as she has NO memories before the age of 9, but she displays all the signs. (My last partner was sexually abused as a child as well so I am kinda in-tune to this) So basically if I let her control our sex life completely I probably would have very little sex but would get "head" instead more often. And she gets VERY upset if I don't orgasm when she is giving me oral sex. (and I can kinda empathize with this)
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
So here's what I think you should do:
I think being preorgasmic should be kind of like a sex game, where the wife is in full control and SHE is the one that's stopping when you're at the point of no return. That way she'll easily see that she turns you on. It's also good, because if she wants, she'll push you past your point of control. It'd be better if you were tied up so that you couldn't have any influence in the situation (if you two are comfortable enough with that).
Wow. Not sure what I think of this yet. Still trying to let it sink in. I don't think either of us could be satisfied if we did this. One, I'd never be able to make her orgasm. Two, she'd have it be over in minutes.
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Forcing yourself to stay preorgasmic is just another ego game. It doesn't little for your real development. As you've experienced in the past, sexual tantra is about the real bond between two people. The love. Strengthen that bond in any way you can, rather than being selfish. Surrender your control for a while, and trust in what she thinks is best.
I understand what you are saying but I really don't agree. For me, staying pre-orgasmic does a LOT for my developement. I can really feel the difference in my meditations if I had an orgams the night before, (energy drain big time) and if I don't orgasm I have the "afterglow" I was talking about in the original post. I agree that what matters most is the Love, and there is plenty of this flowing around here these days, but there is still this issue with sex. And if I do what she thinks is best I think it will be damaging for BOTH of us.
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
But if it does come down to you not being turned on anymore by her, then that's something else entirely. If that's the case, then it'll show if you guys do what I suggested...
I did not marry my wife because I was sexually attracted to her. She is a beautiful person, but she is no super model. Not that I need a super model to be turned on, but my sex drive is something much different then what it used to be. My libido is driven by my practices more then my body now. If that makes any sense. Thanks again for the advice Scott, my mind is made up on nothing.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 2:33:14 PM
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Hi Anthony,
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
I think compromise is good. Meet her halfway (or 1/4)...have an orgasm 1 out of 4 times, ya know?
She is not satisfied with this unfortunately. She gets upset everytime I don't orgasm now.
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
I would recommend she either read through the forums and the many times this issue has come up, or about the wonderful experience of male tantric experience. also, recommend some books on the subject - I am thinking of "Peace Between the Sheets", or "Urban Tantra".
Unfortunately I doubt I'll be able to get her to read anything. I can't even get her to read "Real Love" and this book has changed my entire life and she knows it. Thanks for the book suggestions though, I may read them myself!!
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 2:44:24 PM
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Hi emc,
quote:
Originally posted by emc
This is my take on it:
Never compromise! Compromise is going to work a short while, then something else will come up to stir things between you. This is just a symptom of something else. It's not about your orgasm at all. It's about her anxiety, fear of the unknown and a wish to control things. If you start asking what her worries are you'll be able to go deeper in your communication with each other.
I agree 100%. But she trefuses to try to figure out what the underlying issues are. I have tried for years to get her to go to counselling with me, (or to try some kind of regressed memory retrieval type therapy) but she is scared and always completely refuses. She is a very insecure person and always has been and I'm sure this stems from her childhood, but she remembers none of her childhood so we can't deal with this in any way therapists usually would. I DO NOT want to start blocking again. So I really hope I can find another solution besides compromise.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
A good sentence for her to finish would be this:
"If you don't get an orgasm, it means............" and she might say "I can no longer satisfy you", and then continue the thought chain: "If I can no longer satisfy you, it means........"... and the whole line of thoughts around it can be investigated. You'll probably find that the fear is around something completely different, and the easy part to pick on is you having orgasm or not.
I love these questions! And I think I can answer these questions for her. If I don't acheive orgasm she feels I am not satisfied. She feels if she can't satisfy me, I'm sure she thinks that I will find someone who can. She has never said this, nor have I given her any reason to suspect I would do this, but I would put money on the fact that she liely feels this way. When I get an appropriate chance to as her these questions I will for sure. Thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
I'm certain that life will put us together with a partner that serves our journey. When a partner no longer can serve us in that way, life will find a way to break that relationship up eventually. Life has only one purpose: To wake us up, to expand the consciousness. It does not care which partner you are with. It will always be the one who will push your next button. Your partner is clearly serving you at the moment by serving a "problem" to solve! Congrats!
Yes I am sure this is all part of some master plan. I just want my wife to be happy in bed as well without me having to compromise and start having to have external (or blocked) orgasms. Hopefully I will never have to end the relationship. Thank you for all your helpful advice!
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 2:53:36 PM
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Hello Albert! It's been so long since we chatted! Great to hear from you! Hope all is well in your life! Happy holidays and all that jazz!
quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
I've runned a few years ago on a similar situation with my wife but would like to have more details on what your call staying pre-orgasmic versus blocking technique & non-ejaculatory orgam. Maybe a key-step phases description would help the thread here.
For me, staying pre-orgasmic means not actually having an orgasm. Internal or external(blocked). If I DO have an orgasm, I will either block it manually (with my fingers) or will block it by contracting the pelvic muscles. Does this clear anything up for you?
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
It'd be better if you were tied up so that you couldn't have any influence in the situation (if you two are comfortable enough with that).
quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
Hum, I would not do this for the moment because your wife has no energy work knowledge & could blow your vessels dangerously with shakti-dominant-submissive rituals. See this thread for more info eventually http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3699
I am nervous about this as well. I think that there has to be a better way to help her understand that she still "turns me on".
Thank you for the advice Albert and I loo forward to hearing from you again!
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 3:14:30 PM
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Hi Micheal and thanks for your post!
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
In a marriage, compromise walks hand in hand with the commitment you've made to one another.
Yes, but what exactly is the commitment I have made? Have I really made a commitment to "make her happy"? Is that even possible? No. She is the only one who can truly allow herself to be happy and I can only be there to share it with her. Neither mine, nor her happiness can be built on the other persons actions. (or on the commitment we have made to each other)
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Your marriage is built on compromise, and anyone here who tells you different has not weathered and nurtured and enjoyed a marriage lasing a lifetime.
I always thought my marriage was built on Unconditional Love, not compromise.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
You are in this together, and that is primary--the true nature of Bhakti (one of the primary spiritual practices for the householder) IS to give over one's own desires to those of your beloved.
So my desire for spiritual liberation means nothing because I am married, and the only desire that matters is my wife's desire for me to have external orgasms? That doesn't make sense to me. What about the vice versa? Shouldn't my wife only be concerned with my desire for moksha then? That won't happen since she has no interest in yoga OR Self Realization.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
You stand, in the long run, to gain much more than you lose.
Mind explaining to me what you see me gaining in this circumstance? I know what I lose, but am not sure what I will gain from compromising on this.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Also, realize this--this whole non-ejaculatory orgasm thing is only a step on the ladder, not the final destination--as in all things spiritual, we seek to transcend the path and live the true destination, which, as always, is Samadhi, self-realization, sat-chit-ananda--inner peace and outer radiant joy. One CAN stay in that wonderful place, once arived at, by merely being, with no DOING involved. Blocking, staying ahead, or next to or anywhere during sex ceases to be an issue--one simply IS, and bliss enfolds.
Well...I dunno about this. It seems to me that anyone who has reached "Self Realization", like say Amma, always seem to be unable to have "sex". Or at least unable to "orgasm". To me it seems pretty important to conserve and preserve the sexual essences. But again as you said, this is most liely just a stage. But it is still the stage I am in right now.
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
Attachment to any technique in the face of real life is attachment just the same, and we know where attachment leads--to suffering.
The only suffering caused by staying pre-orgasmic is the suffering my wife seems to feel she is going through. And this is why I posted this. I don't want her to suffer. But I don't want to put what I know is important to my journey aside just to ease her suffering when her suffering is totally unnecessary and self-imposed. I'd rather help her see through the suffering and continue on my journey. Is this really all that selfish?
quote:
Originally posted by mikkiji
You have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain by going with HER flow and getting to where she wishes to lead you.
Well, I will lose a lot of energy if I do this. That's something. And I don't know what I gain.....Maybe the stisfaction of making my wife happy in the short term, but wouldn't it make more sense to try and help her see through this to a more long term happiness instead of pandering to her whimsical desires? I really appreciate your thoughtful and detailed posting Micheal, and I hope my questioning of your advice isn't taken as me seeing no value in it. I see much value in what you are saying, I just am still very much on the fence here. Thank you.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 10 2009 4:57:34 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 3:21:37 PM
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Hello ymladris and thank you for posting!
quote:
Originally posted by ymladris
I love the feeling of "doing my part", eg. seeing the man losing control. because i feel like The Woman.
Yes this is how she feels as well, but is there no way to help you and her understand that orgasm makes me feel worse and not better? Is it not selfish to want us to lose control when all we really desire is to stay IN control?
quote:
Originally posted by ymladris
Carson, do you show her how much you are enjoying her Goddessness, how she totally turns you up, how you feel the pleasure of her energy etc.? Are you open?
Yes ma'am! She knows that I consider her the "Goddess" and that everything she does to me is incredible. But she seems very fixated on orgasm as the only measure of satisfaction. Pure social conditioning I know, but how to break this?
quote:
Originally posted by ymladris
I assume you want to satisfy her, she wants to satisfy you. Imagine how does she feel... and help her to fulfill her wish/need/desire to be a good lover for you.
But satisfaction for me means NOT having an orgasm and she refuses to believe me in this. Satisfaction for her is making ME orgasm. Is there really any compromise to be made here? Thank you for your thoughts and adivce!
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 3:24:42 PM
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Hi Katrine,
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Just remember that your heart never lies. You have already said that you will not cause her pain over this. I loved Michaels post....because really....giving your desires away is enriching in ways we cannot fathom. So is staying true to what is resonating within you. This is also a giving away. In my experience, these two are one and the same. Things are never about "right" and "wrong" according to any set standard. So - as in all other areas of life - only each moment with your wife can reveal what is honoring both these give aways. It is compromising with this that will cause suffering.
Just continue to listen with an open heart.
A very wise posting indeed. Another divine paradox. They seem to be all around these days! haha. And don't worry....I think the only thing I am really in-tune with these days IS my heart....Thanks again.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 3:39:08 PM
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Hello Anthem and than you for your posting....
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
I have been through this a couple of times and most recently with my current partner when our relationship began. Some partners have the capacity to have tantra experiences and others don't. Some can develop them as time goes on. When they are able to feel the tantra energy flows along with you, there is no debate, when they can't it is important as Michael mentions to be sensitive to that and find ways to meet half way.
I fear that my wife is completely uncapable of being a tantric partner. She is very sexually damaged I fear. She doesn't even know this though because she blocked her entire childhood memories from her mind. I think that she has been taken advantage of, has been abused, has been forced and much more, maybe worse sexual experiences and I think that these experiences have created a terrible subconscious sexual identity and sexual preferences for her. It took me a long time to get her to allow ME to make her have an orgasm because she felt she wasn't worth it and sex was meant for me to enjoy only. A lot of this has been dropped over the years, but I'm sure there are still a lot of subconscious issues under the surface here. Meeting her halfway is more lie me allowing her to have full control. And if she has full control she will not attain any pleasure and will focus purely on me as this is all she knew up until the time we started dating. This is sad I know but this is the reality of my situation.
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem 11
On both occasions in the last few years with partners who were not into tantra, they both initially wanted me to have "traditional" ejaculatory orgasms and didn't completely believe my claim that I was as satisfied or more satisfied when I didn't ejaculate. I took emc's approach initially and asked questions along the lines about why it was important to them for me to ejaculate and once the root cause reasons were found, I helped them unattach from the untrue ideas they had about my satisfaction with open communication and getting them to inquire through conversation.
Yes, I too am going to try what emc suggested and see if this starts the "therapy" ball rolling.
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem 11
Both times it was primarily related to the idea that they didn't believe that I could truly be satisfied without ejaculating. So I would explain that I had orgasmic sensations throughout and that these were far more satisfying than the other option. I would also show them how they satisfied me and exactly what satisfied me when we were intimate. I also asked them to inquire if it was absolutely true or certain that I couldn't be satisfied if I didn't ejaculate and I explained how I felt an energy loss and more fatigue when I did. I also spoke about the positives for me when I didn't ejaculate in terms of my raw satisfaction with the whole intimate experience and how I would feel so much better afterward etc.
I also adopted the philosophy that it was important for my partner to feel satisfied and if that meant having an ejaculatory orgasm from time to time, it would make me happy for her to be satisfied more deeply and secure in our love. It becomes a loving gesture this way, it becomes about them and I always find the energy loss from ejaculation with my partner far less than if it happens accidentally during any solo practice sessions. An ejaculatory orgasm once in a while isn't the end of the world. Flowing in love is the way to go.
Yes, I have done this as well. Last month I allowed her to make me have a full external orgasm, but this time is what caused me to decide to stay pre-orgasmic from now on. It was terrible. It made her feel good about herself, but the detriment to my energy (both spiritual and physical) was more then I wish to ever go through again. Staying pre-orgasmic is the only way for me right now. Hopefully this too shall pass, but who knows for sure. Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed reply. Muchly appreciated.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jan 10 2009 4:57:34 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 3:46:20 PM
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Hello again emc,
quote:
Originally posted by emc
I have lately been in the same situation. I meet men who say they want to satisfy me in every way, they love seeing a woman enjoy the act, they want to see me have an orgasm. When I say orgasm doesn't satisfy me, and they insist that they want to continue to fondle my genitals, well... doesn't it become very clear they are not in any way interested in satisfying me, as claimed? I say stroking my back would satisfy me more - they totally lose interest in "seeing a woman enjoy the act". On the contrary, they actually just want to satisfy themselves, using me as the tool for their satisfaction. Would letting them continue to do that be an enlightened act? I don't think so.
I find this very revealing and very accurate. I have had to get used to the fact that my wife has no desire to be satisfied physically herself (despite her not being yogic or tantric or whatever) and have had to come to grips with other ways of satisfying her. excpet that the only way SHE seems to be satisfied is by making ME have an external orgasm. Pretty hypocritical if you think about it. But I don't want to say that because I know that there are other underlying issues as well. Any advice on a not-so harsh way of showing this to her?
quote:
Originally posted by emc
But everybody is different, and I'm just drawing a parallell to my own experiences, and I trust Carson will know what's best for him anyway!
Glad YOU trust that I will find the right solution! Not so sure I do yet, haha. Thans again for the thoughtful advice.
Love,
Carson |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 5:41:34 PM
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Hi Carson,
Sounds like your wife may have her own validation tied to giving you an orgasm.
It's a lot to ask to have her read a book. She may actually have a fear of intimacy also (many of us do). It's good to spend time being close without sex also.
Here is a much easier beginning; have her watch this youtube clip:
Healing with Sexual Relationships:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NliPruvbhHA
It explains the scientific reasoning behind tantra.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 7:13:25 PM
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Hi etherfish,
Unfortunately I have no way of watching youtube videos. (neither does she) But I appreciate the effort in providing the link all the same....
We have no issues with not being close emotionally, and no issues with needing sex to feel close or loving or whatever, but what I fear now is that we AREN'T having sex because she won't insigate it because she hates that I don't orgasm and I am not initiating sex because I know that she hates me not having an orgasm. And yes, I'm sure she has her own validation tied to giving me an orgasm and I fear this is tied subconsiously to abuse she may have suffered during childhood. But how do I help her break that association? Other then by watching a youtube video? haha.
Love,
Carson |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 8:24:09 PM
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Hey Carson,
I see more of what you're saying now, and agree with you.
Here's another way to think about the situation:
If she gets no pleasure from orgasm, and you don't want to orgasm, and your relationship is fine...then why not actually go full out celibate?
I have found that the sexual energy is much better that way. Stronger, clearer, more grounded.
Just an idea. |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 10:53:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
For me, staying pre-orgasmic means not actually having an orgasm. Internal or external(blocked). If I DO have an orgasm, I will either block it manually (with my fingers) or will block it by contracting the pelvic muscles. Does this clear anything up for you?
Hey Carson,
Sorry if my answer is off-topic but so many mails already in this thread that I cannot read right now.
i've had the same problem with my wife a few years ago and as you've found out, it happens to many couples so i'll share here how I did solve the issue with my wife having in mind it almost split us at some point.
Most man don't know they can have non-ejac orgasm but also most woman don't know this. My wife was convinced that I need to ejac to have pleasure so she was very destabilized but i kept telling her it was my business in how I orgasm, not hers so she should trust me.
She finally accepted this but we got another problem: I could not ride pre-orgasm waves a very long time while we made love because it would hurt her vagina for some reason but also would bring her nausea. The reason i've found out later is that some shaktipat is raised from your vessel & start burning karma in her vessel bringing many symptoms she can't manage consciously because she was not interested into studying mysticism.
Through time, we were able to make love longer times so shakti took care of her vessel in mysterious ways but I always manage riding pre-orgasm she could handle then non-ejac orgasm.
If I were you, shorter time of pre-orgasm then ALWAYS have orgasm because non-ejac orgasm will fix more things between you and your wife.
Hope this helps, Albert |
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Non-Tantric partner Issue
