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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 24 2008 : 1:12:54 PM
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Happy Christmas Eve!
Guys, I'm gonna make this quick. I'm hitting a crisis right now where I'm feeling like a big loser all the time now. Recently I had a breakdown where I realized that the past years spent in yoga and my entire childhood were spent in a state of psuedo-justified solitude where I just didn't care about anyone but myself. Even yoga served this ambition because I figured that I was too enlightened for the common people. Well, that all fell apart. Now, I'm coming to terms with the fact that I have all but destroyed my relationship with my girlfriend, have only one other friend who I never really see, and an entire family who has come to accept me as someone who cannot be counted upon...to the point of me being a source of jokes about how I didn't even know today was christmas eve or what year it was.
Well, I'm trying to tackle this tremendous problem little by little. I'm taking small steps towards being more social in my school. A big problem I see is that people think I'm unreliable because I'm completely disorganized. I didn't even get anything for xmas for anyone cuz I didn't think about it till it was too late! Everyone else is slaving away at cards and gifts...and yeah, it's silly consumerism and blah blah blah...but at least theyre doing something nice for others. Other people spent their entire lives doing good deeds for others so that their karma is that good deeds and favor come back to them. I have 21 years of self-centeredness and lonliness that is getting me exactly that. I don't know how to turn this around. I keep having these inspirations to do charitable work or things around the house for my grandparents...but I either forget or it gets deprioritized. Yoga is just making me spacier I think. But it's always been that way. I feel like selling all the instruments I have so I don't have an excused to devote ANY of my private time to doing anything for myself.
Sorry is this is a rant. |
Edited by - AYPforum on Dec 26 2008 11:37:20 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2008 : 5:50:54 PM
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It's hard being in your early 20s. Still trying to find out where exactly we stand. I'm just coming out of it, at 24.
But it's clear that you don't like being thought of as unreliable. So no matter what you'll have to change.
I think volunteering to help people in need is a great thing. It forces you to open your heart...sitting around thinking about it, you don't see the actual stuff that these people have to put up with. Their lives are very hard. Seeing that, and knowing them personally, brings about a big change of heart. |
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2008 : 6:19:09 PM
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Jack Kornfields books a Path with Hart, After the exctacy the Laundry and Budhist Psychology for the west are great books to read for a person who is using yoga to escape from ordinary life. Read A path with hart first.
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IcedEarth
73 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2008 : 01:10:51 AM
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Hey man, I can understand where you're coming from. I'm 24 and I've got a few of the same issues that you do. Main one is loneliness, which gets compounded by things like daily yoga practice, practicing guitar alone for hours, reading, hell, could be anything. Maybe the best thing to do is use the imagination to think of ways to involve others in our lives. Many things in spirituality tell us to put all our attention on the present, but it is so important to allow ourselves to dream and wonder.
It seems like the main problem is you haven't given enough attention to the people in your life. Be sure that you're not being overly harsh about how you've behaved. Just radiate a natural, easy self-acceptance. |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2008 : 02:11:27 AM
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Hello Anthony,
I went through something similar when I was about 24. I can really relate to everything you wrote. Except that I had been in a deep depression for about a decade when I had my crisis. There was constant anxiety for me on a daily basis, especially around people.
My advice is to strengthen your personal will and get more engaged in life. Physical exercise (especially strength training, lifting weights, etc.) can do wonders. Service is wonderful too, since you seem inclined that way anyways. It doesn't have to be something dramatic like helping sick and starving people. Taking care of your family and pitching in around the house is a good route. Spending time with friends and being more social may help too.
I don't know if this applies to you, but I find that being decisive and proactive is helping me to really get outside of my mind and grow as a person. I have this lifelong habit of being passive and letting others dominate me. Every time I follow through on an intention or stand up for myself, I feel a little bit stronger as a person.
You may not see it, but you're in a very good place. A lot of people your age don't question the things you mentioned, and will spend years living life the old way and being miserable. You at least have a sense that you need to grow beyond where you are. You can do it and I wish you success.
Merry Christmas!
cosmic |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2008 : 04:57:00 AM
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Selling all the instruments isn't going to solve the problem. Just like cosmic said you have to strengthen your personal will, or willpower. You do that by always finishing whatever you started or whatever you decided to do, and I mean, always..
And I'm not saying this from some high hilltop as if I do that all the time myself, but I'm trying. It actually improves my ability to do difficult yoga routines as well so its a genuine practice.
Hey at least you have one friend, and a girlfriend. I have no friends, and have had difficulty building a relationship with a girl.. But I'm not worried about these things right now for some reason as I view my practice as being more important, hoping to be able to give more to people once I am more developed. |
Edited by - Chiron on Dec 25 2008 07:23:57 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2008 : 4:41:05 PM
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hello Anthony,
sorry for having to be very clear and outspoken but i have too for your own good.
just stop wining and get up your lazy ... and go out and do some good it will make you a lot better and stop using yoga as an excuse life is a lot more important than yoga the latter is just a part of the picture not all of it.
go out help someone, volunteer in a homeless shelter, in the red cross.....
it's better to turn on a light than to curse the darkness.
acts of goodness are the best yoga you can practice, this is "karma yoga".
and it's the best kind of yoga which make us feel goodness, kindness, and that we are still human.
you see it all springs from the heart and goes back to it, and a yoga without a heart is just lame.
this way by doing good, you'll be doing more yoga .
merry joly Christmas hohohohoho
Ananda |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2008 : 10:35:13 PM
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Hey Anthony,
Take it easy on yourself and count your blessings. It took me about 50 years to figure that out. A lot of people never do.
So you are way ahead.
The important thing is to recognize it and let it go. That you have been doing this for a while is not that important.
Sounds like you are becoming more conscious and AYP is working well for you. That is great. It is just some of the less pleasant scenary which you can now start to let go of. Keep at it, self pace and be thankful.
Merry Christmas, yb. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Dec 25 2008 : 10:42:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
But I'm not worried about these things right now for some reason as I view my practice as being more important, hoping to be able to give more to people once I am more developed.
This resonates with me because I think, "once I get there then I will do this and that and this and that" If I wait to get more developed then when I get more developed I will wait till I get more developed. This whole thread hits home for me. Some of us "closet seekers" need to get out more. I also have held myself up on a pedestal thinking, "others dont really know who god is" Now I realize that a "dumb follower" who is happy is better then a person who shuns the world because "no religion is right" I am pointing the finger at myself.
my best
Brother Neil |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2008 : 06:45:17 AM
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Hi Anthony,
It's a while since we met in NY, sorry to hear of your recent or present state of being - like everything in life of course - it will pass
I will give my input by replying to Brother Neil
quote:
Now I realize that a "dumb follower" who is happy is better then a person who shuns the world because "no religion is right" I am pointing the finger at myself.
my best
Brother Neil
Yes, I have fallen into this trap often Brother Neil. The true path is the path of peace and happiness or peace and joy, in each moment.
If we put this joy and peace on the "long finger" and procrastinate about it, thinking that if I keep up all these practices that eventually I will get there -WHERE?- to a place where I am peaceful and happy.
How do we do this? - Well I have found and have seen it with many people who meditate that we can be in a state of presence, stillness, inner silence, samadhi or whatever, and still have mental formations that keep us miserable and down. When we are meditating we can be ok but during the day our old conditioning remains and keeps us in a prison.
Replacing old conditioned hapits with new more enlightened ones is part of the process of being happy, in my view.
One trick that I have found works for me is the realisation firstly that the state of presence we can experience during meditation IS US OPENING A DOOR TO TRUE JOY- all we have to do is realise this and allow our busy conditioned minds to acknowledge it and allow it in.
Sometimes, if we are down in ourselves our mind seems to want to hang on to the "downness" and prevent the joy flooding our beings. We can decide to let it in and not be captivated by the drudge and dreariness of our conditioned minds.
I realised this first when I read Tolle's the Power of Now. He brought this home to me and it has been an inspiration to be since. I do however, have to remiind myself of it from time to time, when life decides to throw me a wobbler
So when we feel the presence, also recognise it as JOY, because that's what it is - don't be fooled by your mind telling you otherwise. You don't have to wait untill tomorrow for this, you can experience it right now.
A big mistake people make is that they think enlightenment is some far off state to be attained once we do enough work on ourselves, once we reach certain states.
We have all had states of being joyful. Well take this memory and understand that this is what we access when we are in presence or inner silence.
We tend to dismiss these simple things as being nothing and not the real thing - thinking that the real thing is something far off and that we have to do so much work to "attain" this.
Where the daily practices come in is, firstly in getting in touch with the inner silence and then deepening it and allowing it to reveal itself more throughout the day.
But even after a long time practicing it is still possible to be trapped from time to time,in a negitative state of - thinking ourselves into misery.
It is important to realise that whenever we feel joy out of inner silence - we are experiencing enlightenment just then, and people just don't get this. We are so conditioned to think that enlightenment is something far off that we dismiss the simple experience of joy and then what happens - of course it gets lost.
Instead, if we treat our joy and peace like precious jewels and acknowledge them and nurture and feed them with more presence and inner silence. They will grow from being seeds to being healthy plants in our lives.
All the other things that AYP presents here, including self-inquiry, are part of the unfolding process that allows us to water those seeds of joy and peace and love to the fullest.
If too, out of inner silence we get a hunch to go and help someone or do some charity work - please don't procrastinate - just go and do it, by doing so, you will be watering those seeds of joy in your life.
As the fella said "the only way to truely receive anything is to give it away"
All the best for the New Year
Peace and joy
Louis
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2008 : 08:28:23 AM
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Hi Louis
I love your post.
All of it |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2008 : 08:28:47 AM
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Hi Anthony
quote:
I have 21 years of self-centeredness and lonliness that is getting me exactly that.
Anthony - yes and no
Let me quote from a mail I wrote to a friend recently - many things happened at the same time...Christmas was coming up and I missed my children, a friend at work, whom I didn't manage to help, lost her job, my father is disappearing because of Alzheimer, and I had just then closed the door to my heart because of fear of being totally vulnerable to love (of all of the above - this was the only "problem"). I wanted to be alone in the non-natural way. So -just like you, I was lonely:
"So that is what I have been experiencing. Which is good.....since it makes me see the folly of it :-) I am not an island...I am not even a country ...*S*....I am all over the place. I cannot be all over the place and at the same time expect to be companionless......familyless.....loverless. So enough of that!"
I could have added: Now the other! (I didn't, though......being raised in a normally equipped home )
Anthony:
Many, many joyful moments have taken place during your 21 years. But these moments are wordless treasures....so easily "forgotten". This is what minds "do"....they veil the joy of the present moment. It is just like Sparkle is emphasizing in his post (be sure to read it more than once):
quote:
It is important to realise that whenever we feel joy out of inner silence - we are experiencing enlightenment just then, and people just don't get this
Also - to be 21 years old and openly display the self-centeredness and the loneliness....this does not happen very often, Anthony. You see - you are looking at it. So it cannot be you. It appears that way. You are seeing it.....the folly of it. How many people any age do that? Not that many. And yet we are all equally special. So...the loneliness......It is a blessing, not a curse. I heard Mooji say:
"The universe is not vindictive - it is corrective"
You are experiencing what it is like to believe the mind. And you are already transcending the loneliness and the self-centeredness because of this. So don't lose heart! You are right where you should be all the time.
quote:
Well, I'm trying to tackle this tremendous problem little by little.
It is not a tremendous problem. All it is is exactly that which fits into each moment like a door fits its frame. That is all. So your "little by little" approach is perfect . Just a tiny crack...of opening the door....does it, see.....like you watching the self-centeredness and the loneliness....this is enough to destroy the belief in the mind for now. It is simply too painful to stay wed to this belief.....so the seeing of it...opens the door. And the next now...the approach is the same. Like this....we go from 100 % belief in the mind to less and less listening to all its stories about life. And the crack opens wider and wider.....into that which is always the Silence Enjoying Itself.
So....read it again:
quote:
I have 21 years of self-centeredness and lonliness that is getting me exactly that.
Not that after all.
Not getting you anything....just uncovering THAT which you already are
quote:
I feel like selling all the instruments I have so I don't have an excused to devote ANY of my private time to doing anything for myself.
Well - I for one, would love to hear you play, Anthony. Please don't sell your instruments. You see.....when joyful....you will feel like expressing yourself. And I cannot think of any better spent time than that which is devoted to your Self. It spreads and touches all of your surroundings. And revives all of that which looked dead and destroyed to you when you wrote this post (and that is already history, so just throw that past away now)
Be it the Self that is your girlfriend or the Self that is the fellow student....
all is already touched by the Joy that is you
So thank you for being here.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2008 : 11:05:04 AM
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Wow Louis, what an awesome post.
AYP really does work.. to think last Christmas you were feeling bad that you were not progressing (http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3318) and this Christmas you write the most inspiring post from your silence.
It always helps to let go and let flow... and practice without expectations.
Thank You my friend for sharing this with us. |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2008 : 11:37:20 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2008 : 10:39:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
...
It is important to realize that whenever we feel joy out of inner silence - we are experiencing enlightenment just then, and people just don't get this. We are so conditioned to think that enlightenment is something far off that we dismiss the simple experience of joy and then what happens - of course it gets lost.
...
Louis
Louis:
What a highly instructive and inspiring message!
Thank You.
Glagbo |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 04:59:42 AM
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| Thanks Katrine, Shanti and glagbo, appreciate your comments |
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avatar186
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2009 : 04:29:57 AM
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when i had decided to start studying the esotoric.
i spent two years in almost complete isolation, studying everyday, and i mean everyday.
for about a year and a half after than, i spent every moment of my free time doing yoga.
during this year i started interacting with people agian.
but i had in a sense brainwashed myself.
so i learned to be social agian.
everything is a skill. u must learn to balance life and yoga.
that is the housholder yogi.
this is also the reason, ive been looking for the perfect method.
so that in the perfect method, 3 weeks of practise can be accomplished in 3 days.
think the difference between a garden hose and a fire hose.
many methods for one objective. but the most efficiant is like baking instant cookies that come out like mae from scratch. lol |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2009 : 03:11:16 AM
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From my experience, the energy conditions and states of consciousness I have achieved in isolated practice have dissapeared after interaction with people in the normal world. So for me, I know for a fact that in order to truly progress I need to be away from people for a while.
If you can give shaktipat and transfer your energy while taking the karma and pain of others onto yourself then you become a hundred throusand times more valuable to humanity than any normal human. Because you'd be able to put people on the spiritual path and boost their progress as well. Introducing people to the spiritual path is the greatest gift, the most valuable help you can offer. And it takes time, and time in isolation, to achieve such an energetic condition.
Even if you can demonstrate a siddhi, of any kind, it can inspire others to begin practice, even if they do it for materialistic reasons at first. Or if you practice deep contemplation and develop your logic, making you able to easily convince others of the futility of materialistic existence, this also plants the seeds which will eventually lead them to true happiness.
But hey, if you are in a position to help someone right this moment then do it in whatever way you can. The point I'm just trying to make is that some forms of help are more important than others.
It seems that people are mixing up enlightenment and liberation which are related but I think are two different things. To me, enlightenment means the logical realisation of the purpose of this life based on the intuitive feeling of the true self. There are various degrees of that so everyone is enlightened to some extent. A completely enlightened person would probably be someone for whom there is only spiritual practice. While liberation is the experiential condition of the soul when desires and attachments have been transcended. There are also various degrees of this and a completely liberated person would be someone who has shed all attachments and desires. A flat electroencephalogram showing would be one physical proof of this, when the brain is compeletely calm and the thought processes are in total control, not driven by past experiences and desires.
The true self, or spirit is independent and needs nothing for its existence, therefore for a soul to achieve total unity with that it needs to be completely pure (ie having no attachments to money, power, sex, food, air, water, the body, personality, form, life and existence itself (etc..)). As far as I know one needs to be able to enter the astral and then the causal realms in order remove all attachments completely and the ability to enter multi-hour samadhi (during the ultimate version of which the breath halts and the heart beats so quitely that it cannot be heard with a stethoscope) is required for that. Everything I said is very simplistic but I want to stress the fact that we can and do need to develop.
Ofcourse our true self, the indescribable infinite, the incomprehensible eternal, is changeless. There is no progress there and there is nowhere to go and nothing to develop. But our souls are polluted with past experiences and false ideas and our nadis are clogged and our chakras are underdeveloped. That's the reason we identify ourselves with the temporary body which feels pain and hunger and is bound for death even though in our true nature we were never born and will never die..
Its easy to say this but lets face it, we need yoga or similar practices in order to directly experience it. Although it is OK if you go and sit on the couch and eat chips or even go out and feed the hungry but there is no guarantee you will arrive home through the top of the loop unless you conquer death while you are still alive (ie. experience bardo in deep meditation). And if there is still something impossible for you then you are not home just yet, so don't fool yourself and keep up the practice, while helping others along the way.
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Edited by - Chiron on Jan 07 2009 04:33:49 AM |
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Steve Kelly
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2012 : 12:22:03 PM
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Thanks for sharing Yoga and The Real World information. Really this information very useful for us. I do practice yoga daily and i believe that any yoga can help once a week, twice a week, whatever. Different styles do different things and i think astanga primary series is a great practice for once/twice a week to get great benefits in flexibility and strength. I do not know about the 'speed' of certain goals with yoga. it's a rather goal-less practice in my own experience, but i can understand using it for certain results and seeing how to get those results most effectively (with style, sequence, frequency of practice, etc).
Best Regards,
Steve |
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Neil Advani
Canada
1 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2012 : 12:37:53 AM
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You are sharing very useful information. I wanted to say that I’ve really enjoyed browsing your topic about "Yoga and Real world". Yoga is a form of exercise, meditation, and restorative breathing. When practiced regularly, it brings unity to the mind, body and spirit.
Thanks.
Benefits of yoga |
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Yoga and The Real World
