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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 14 2008 : 11:47:45 AM
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Does everyone know this?
The center channel (Sushumna) is in FRONT of the spinal cord.
Make a line from the perineum to the middle of the top of the head.
The middle part feels sort of electric. The outer coat feels sort of magnetic.
It changes its spin when Ida and Pingala change dominance every so often.
Spinal cord is not the center channel, yet is intimately related to it. |
Edited by - AYPforum on Dec 14 2008 12:06:14 PM |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 12:07:49 PM
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| keep this in mind when doing your pranayama, like spinal breathing. |
Edited by - alwayson on Apr 27 2009 12:11:53 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 12:55:19 PM
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hi alwayson, the front channel is mostly used by taoists and it's a good place to store energy downward toward the navel\solar plexus while letting the toungue touch the roof of the mouth during pranayama practice.
this will help also if there is too much energy stuck up in the head.
but with all respects to your opinion in my knowledge and out of what i read and heard so far the spinal cord remains always as the central channel in all traditions but what differs is the end game here.
bcz taoists keep the energy within and let it go toward the hara where it's stored, while yogis give it all out for free (karma yoga).
but the center channel of evolution which reaches out towards all the chakras remains the spinal cord bcz it's the main passage to drive through in a balanced and safely efficient way and even the taoist who practice pranayama and taoist sex have to go first through the sushumna there's no escape from that.
kindest regards,
Ananda
p.s: i guess it would be safe to say the same thing as well about tantric buddhists. |
Edited by - Ananda on Apr 29 2009 04:07:09 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 1:03:48 PM
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oh and i forgot to say one last thing about the sushumna it starts from within the spinal cord than start growing in radiation to reach out the whole body and out in the end and yes at times it really feels like it's where you say it is but first we start from within the spinal cord and from there we expand.
in my going experience these days the sushumna is a luminous cord covering the spine and pretty much what's in front of it.
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 1:20:24 PM
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Hi Alwayson,
The center channel that you refer to is located in front of the spinal cord toward the center of the body. With variations unique to particular practices (ie. starting/ending pts), it is used in tummo along with other tibetan, buddhist and taoist practices. It maps to the central thrusting channel used in taoist alchemy practices. This center channel is a different channel than the sushumna that in part runs inside the spinal column which is traced in AYP spinal breathing. It is also different than the microcosmic orbit.
In Indian yoga practices the roots of the seven major chakras are located at the sushumna. In taoist practices, the dan tiens are located along the the center channel you have identified. In a general sense, when comparing the initial stages of different types of energy practices, the dan tiens provide access to a deeper level of the energy field along the hara line than the sushumna and chakras do. However, as one's overall AYP SB+DM practice progresses resulting in the development of ecstatic conductivity and the awakening of the kundalini the sushumna increases in size to become much bigger than the spinal cord and body. As this occurs, the deeper levels of the energy field also open up and become part of one's developing integrated experience.
To provide clarity to any forum newcomers, the center channel you speak of is NOT traced back and forth in AYP spinal breathing. As mentioned in the lessons, in AYP one breathes from the perineum up the center of the spinal column through the stem of the brain, center of brain to point between the eyebrows and then back down to the perineum. What you have recommended would be a different version of an up-and-down pranayama practice. The AYP method of up-and-down spinal breathing pranayama with the mid-eybrow control point (and chakra roots located along the spinal column) serve to regulate the energy in a more controlled manner than breathing up and down the center channel with the top end point being the 'middle of the top of the head'.
Love and Light,
Steve |
Edited by - Steve on Apr 27 2009 2:22:53 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 1:52:12 PM
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Thank you for that clarifying post, Steve! Much appreciated, since I've been finding all of those three channels, but thought "oh, it's all one anyway in the end" and didn't bother much to figure it out, although it has been a minor mystery to me!
The first channel, which alwayson mentions, in front of the spinal cord was found during qi gong and ki-aikido exercises. The sushumna during AYP, and the front channel while playing with the microcosmic orbit - and learning from Jim's useful posts on blockages in the front channel here on forum!  Thank you very much for sorting it out! |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 2:05:35 PM
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It IS the sushumna I am talking about Steve. It runs right in front of the spinal cord, touching it along the whole way. Again, it runs from perineum to crown. This is nowhere close to the taoist "front channel".
P.S. There is a widespread misinterpretation from where kundalini is triggered...
P.S.S. There is no taoist front channel. What you are doing is hitting all the chakras from the front, but there is no channel there. |
Edited by - alwayson on Apr 27 2009 2:44:04 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 2:42:56 PM
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Hehe, alwayson, your reply reminds me of a very confusing old topic we had some time ago about perineum vs coccyx... perhaps this would interest you, if not for the content itself, but for the confusion about it, and to see how certain all people seem to be that they are right about how energies move!
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1787 |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 2:56:44 PM
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| Perineum is where that base chakra is located. I can vouch for that from personal experience as well. The sushumna runs from this straight up touching the spine. The sushumna is a lot bigger than what people think, in terms of diameter. |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 4:58:42 PM
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Thanks all for this very interesting thread. I have always been confused by the various views of how this works, and so have never formally practised any of them, partly out of fear of getting it wrong and doing myself a mischief. But Ma Shakti had other ideas, and the game started of its own accord. The 'spontaneous' awakening of kundalini came from above, via ajna down to muladhara, and then up and down, up and down, definitely in the spine. And now if I breathe and pay attention to the prana it starts from above and descends and then returns, unless I start it from muladhara deliberately, which works too. But it mostly goes up and down by a 'more direct route' than the spine, seemingly focused in the centre of the body, and not a narrow tube. And if I attend to either pole of this the two poles merge into one bliss enveloping the whole body-mind. Maybe this is all wrong, but it's what has happened without any formal practice, so I tend to assume it's 'natural' for me.
Some teachers say that the prana should start from above and some from below, some say descending via the frontal line and ascending via the spinal line, some say all in the spinal line. I am interested to know that Taoism and other traditions may have a different view to Indian traditions, though the diagrams of the chi/pranic systems in all traditions look pretty similar to me.
Perhaps the best approach for most is to start with the specified practice of the chosen tradition (here AYP) and gradually let the body lead as the practice opens up. My experience is that Ma Shakti does pretty well what the hell she wants anyway, and poor old Shiva just has to get used to it and try and stabilise her. This reminds me of the ancient story of Shiva and Parvati where, in a game of coins Parvati introduces to her lover, she wins every time, however hard he tries! (And that reminds me of an old Portuguese saying....but no, I'd better stop  )
chinna |
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Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 6:48:03 PM
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yes it is very contridictory what is written sometimes. Even the most basic things can be deceptive.
I was reading some anatomy page and found the interesting fact that the spinal cord is usually about 16 inches in an adult, that is, it doesn't even extend all the way down the back. This is a survival thing, only nerve bundles extend down to the lower body. So, the point, many texts on esoteric stuff don't even get the whole spinal cord and chakra business correct.
I can't find the reference to the spinal length thing, so of course, I could be wrong.
P.S. I was meditating one day and I actually experienced a chakra being connected to the front from the back, like those drawings you see with the little vortexes. Not sure how that relates to "front" channels yet.
-- jo-self
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2009 : 8:19:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chinna
Thanks all for this very interesting thread. I have always been confused by the various views of how this works, and so have never formally practised any of them, partly out of fear of getting it wrong and doing myself a mischief. But Ma Shakti had other ideas, and the game started of its own accord. The 'spontaneous' awakening of kundalini came from above, via ajna down to muladhara, and then up and down, up and down, definitely in the spine. And now if I breathe and pay attention to the prana it starts from above and descends and then returns, unless I start it from muladhara deliberately, which works too. But it mostly goes up and down by a 'more direct route' than the spine, seemingly focused in the centre of the body, and not a narrow tube. And if I attend to either pole of this the two poles merge into one bliss enveloping the whole body-mind. Maybe this is all wrong, but it's what has happened without any formal practice, so I tend to assume it's 'natural' for me.
Some teachers say that the prana should start from above and some from below, some say descending via the frontal line and ascending via the spinal line, some say all in the spinal line. I am interested to know that Taoism and other traditions may have a different view to Indian traditions, though the diagrams of the chi/pranic systems in all traditions look pretty similar to me.
Perhaps the best approach for most is to start with the specified practice of the chosen tradition (here AYP) and gradually let the body lead as the practice opens up. My experience is that Ma Shakti does pretty well what the hell she wants anyway, and poor old Shiva just has to get used to it and try and stabilise her. This reminds me of the ancient story of Shiva and Parvati where, in a game of coins Parvati introduces to her lover, she wins every time, however hard he tries! (And that reminds me of an old Portuguese saying....but no, I'd better stop )
chinna
not every energy movement is kundalini. You can have a lot of energy in the spine. Its NOT kundalini. |
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2009 : 08:31:29 AM
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I am curious about this topic as well. My "energy" started at the crown and 3rd eye, and has slowly been working its way down my spine. For instance, right now I have the energy feeling in my crown, 3rd eye and half-way down my back. During SBP I am able to perceive the energy going up my spine to the 3rd eye, but I still have very little perception of energy in my root and sacral chakras.
A few months back after having practiced pretty intensely, I did feel the root vibrating with energy quite strongly, and felt energy all over the place, and had the general feeling of "oh sh*t, what did I just get myself into!! Better hold on..." But after ~ 20 mins the feeling died down and I haven't had the experience since.
So basically, even though I feel the energy in the upper 2/3s of my body, with little energy feeling from the root I have no idea whether my kundalini is awakened or not...
Any insights would be appreciated!!! |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2009 : 11:06:31 AM
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when you say root, you mean perineum?
Anyway, indian methods over stimulate the higher centers, which was fine when people were in a agricultural civilization. But in modern society where the higher centers are already overstimulated, it is better to use something like Robert Bruce's NEW and work on lower energy centers. And thats what I suggest to you. |
Edited by - alwayson on Apr 28 2009 11:08:00 AM |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2009 : 3:30:11 PM
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quote:
not every energy movement is kundalini. You can have a lot of energy in the spine. Its NOT kundalini.
Thank you Alwayson. Never a truer word. Strictly speaking, kundalini is no-thing, being emptiness-awareness, expressed in the form of the body's most subtle system.
chinna |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2009 : 3:49:32 PM
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| actually thats not kundalini either |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2009 : 04:14:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Parallax
I am curious about this topic as well. My "energy" started at the crown and 3rd eye, and has slowly been working its way down my spine. For instance, right now I have the energy feeling in my crown, 3rd eye and half-way down my back. During SBP I am able to perceive the energy going up my spine to the 3rd eye, but I still have very little perception of energy in my root and sacral chakras.
A few months back after having practiced pretty intensely, I did feel the root vibrating with energy quite strongly, and felt energy all over the place, and had the general feeling of "oh sh*t, what did I just get myself into!! Better hold on..." But after ~ 20 mins the feeling died down and I haven't had the experience since.
So basically, even though I feel the energy in the upper 2/3s of my body, with little energy feeling from the root I have no idea whether my kundalini is awakened or not...
Any insights would be appreciated!!!
hi Parallax and given the sensations at the crown i think it's safe to say that you have an awakened kundalini but bcz of the practice of SBP everything is getting redirected in a more stable way toward the ajna but the crown is still getting opened by proxy.
in time the way you felt the crown and the third eye as one you'll feel the same down from the root up to the third eye and eventually the crown.
and sooner or later you'll starts seeing some currents up them legs and arms and you won't miss that bcz the hand will do automatic mudras and the legs will either pull in some prana or spread it out plus there will be some movements starting form the knees and down forth.
so i would say that you're doing a good job, keep on the great work.
light and love,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2009 : 04:24:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Hi Alwayson,
The center channel that you refer to is located in front of the spinal cord toward the center of the body. With variations unique to particular practices (ie. starting/ending pts), it is used in tummo along with other tibetan, buddhist and taoist practices. It maps to the central thrusting channel used in taoist alchemy practices. This center channel is a different channel than the sushumna that in part runs inside the spinal column which is traced in AYP spinal breathing. It is also different than the microcosmic orbit.
In Indian yoga practices the roots of the seven major chakras are located at the sushumna. In taoist practices, the dan tiens are located along the the center channel you have identified. In a general sense, when comparing the initial stages of different types of energy practices, the dan tiens provide access to a deeper level of the energy field along the hara line than the sushumna and chakras do. However, as one's overall AYP SB+DM practice progresses resulting in the development of ecstatic conductivity and the awakening of the kundalini the sushumna increases in size to become much bigger than the spinal cord and body. As this occurs, the deeper levels of the energy field also open up and become part of one's developing integrated experience.
To provide clarity to any forum newcomers, the center channel you speak of is NOT traced back and forth in AYP spinal breathing. As mentioned in the lessons, in AYP one breathes from the perineum up the center of the spinal column through the stem of the brain, center of brain to point between the eyebrows and then back down to the perineum. What you have recommended would be a different version of an up-and-down pranayama practice. The AYP method of up-and-down spinal breathing pranayama with the mid-eybrow control point (and chakra roots located along the spinal column) serve to regulate the energy in a more controlled manner than breathing up and down the center channel with the top end point being the 'middle of the top of the head'.
Love and Light,
Steve
thk you for writing and sharing brother Steve that's a very interesting post.
i would like to ask you one quick question along the way.
you said that going up and down the spine will eventually expand and reach out the whole and this is common ayp knowledge.
but i was wondering if you have an answer for this; could we say the same about those who practice only along the hara line? i mean does the expanding still happens nevertheless and is the enlightenment process the same for these guys as it is for us who go via the spine.
kindest regards,
Ananda |
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2009 : 10:12:42 AM
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Ananda,
Much love to you brother! Your insights and encouragement are valued and very much appreciated...
I know over time the kundalini will flow more smoothly through the whole length of the spine and its just a matter of keeping the practices up like clockwork...I hear so much about the kundalini surging up the spine from the base, and perhaps that is yet to come, but so far the flow outside of practices has definitely been from the crown down.
Its all good...my experience thus far has been amazing and I know I ain't seen nothing yet!!
Wishing you Pure Bliss Consciousness and Divine Outpouring Love
Parallax |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2009 : 1:42:58 PM
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hi Parallax, and thk you for sharing.
if the energy is coming down automatically then really this is the first time i hear of such an experience and you may call it a blessing or divine grace.
i practice bringing down white light from above myself to calm down my nervous system when things become a bit hektik and this is a suffi practice by the way but i never heard about it coming down from above but only in rare occasions like when my own crown chakra first opened up and this lead later on to an excessive outpouring of kundalini energy.
don't worry kundalini is definitely present within you, but it might be overshadowed by the divine grace pouring down on you from the all mercy.
light and love,
Ananda
p.s: the light coming down should be white and not yellow, bcz the first is in the now infinite and neverending while the scd is temporary (vanishes with our definition of time.) |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2009 : 8:11:48 PM
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Hi Ananda, quote:
i would like to ask you one quick question along the way.
you said that going up and down the spine will eventually expand and reach out the whole and this is common ayp knowledge.
but i was wondering if you have an answer for this; could we say the same about those who practice only along the hara line? i mean does the expanding still happens nevertheless and is the enlightenment process the same for these guys as it is for us who go via the spine.
Dear brother many thanks to all the wonderful posts you have made to the forum. I have learned and enjoyed much from them.
Regarding your question, before I respond to keep things clear from an AYP perspective, I first refer back to some things Yogani wrote in the 'Spinal Nerve' topic in AYP Pranayama, Mudras and Bandhas http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4292 .quote:
On the sushumna questions, yes, imagining the spinal nerve as a tiny tube during spinal breathing is the original instruction. But if it becomes a bother, then it is okay to simply go up and down the middle of the body between root and brow. That is an instruction also. Ultimately, the sushumna grows to become as big as the cosmos, with many intermediate stages going from tiny tube through gradually expanding energy column and finally to the cosmic. So it is a relative thing. It is an automatic process stimulated by our practices. There is nothing more we have to do about it. So just be easy with it, without expectations. If you are ending up at the brow when filled with air and at the root when empty, that is good spinal breathing practice. Favor that basic procedure over other energy and/or imagery that comes up, and the rest will take care of itself.
As for what other teachings say about the sushumna, I really can't speak for them. Spinal breathing has a very long and varied history, and as far as I know it is the cream of the pranayama methods (when adequately simplified). The results for many practitioners seem to confirm this.
What is new in AYP is the integration of spinal breathing with deep meditation (practiced in sequence, not at the same time), and that is opening a lot of doors for many practitioners, including the infinite inner space of the heart.
quote:
The perception of the spinal nerve (sushumna) may remain as a small ecstatic thread or tube, even as the energy is expanding. Or there could be no perception of the tiny thread, with a huge column of ecstatic energy whirling about. All of this is a process of purification and opening, and maintaining steady forward progress with comfort and safety is the priority.
In AYP we always favor the center in spinal breathing, no matter how wide or diverse the energy may become. We also favor the brow as the top point -- over time it may naturally expand upward as inner silence and ecstatic conductivity advance. There can be long term difficulties resulting from favoring the crown as the top point too early -- see lessons under "Crown Opening (avoiding premature)" in the Topic Index of the website or the AYP Easy Lessons book.
We all have the same underlying nervous system, energy system and spiritual anatomy. Regardless of the method or tradition if the practices 'are truly effective' and result in the direct cultivation of abiding inner silence, the awakening of the kundalini and ecstatic conductivity with a direct clear connection to the Heart of Hearts that allows the Love to work without interference then the energy system will be purified and eventually open up completely. As this occurs the sushumna and chakras will expand to the size of existence as one dissolves in oneness and melts into the Love.
It's not practicing along the hara line that is the determining factor. At a minimum, one has to ask, "What constitutes the complete set of practices?" and "How effective are they in cultivating the conditions mentioned above?". Those pre-requisite conditions constitute the infrastructure that allows Source to eventually take over and lead the process. As Source takes over, the nature of practice changes. Limitations imposed upon our practice by the ego are removed and the Love begins to work in deeper and more complete ways. Some beings have reached high levels of awareness, can see into and explore various dimensions, developed powers, etc., but no one can return Home and fulfill the purpose of existence without the direct intervention of Source and the Love. Only Source and the Love can bring one Home.
Is the enlightenment process the same? Is a taoist 'immortal', a yogi who has acquired the highest forms of accomplishment and can manifest the rainbow body, a buddha and a being that has completely returned Home to Source and become part of the Love all the same? Are there any differences between them and any way we can know or at a minimum get a deep direct non-intellectual sense of what they are? The inner heart can show us some of the differences between beings in these categories. When a being chooses something less than Source and the Love, it's not a forever choice. We are all loved completely. Even in this moment, Source is calling us Home ... the Love is always available. Source wants to hug and hold us to give us the best always. So choose and give it all up for Source, let the Love bring you HOME and in that way become part of the blessing that touches all Hearts everywhere.
(Note: When I mentioned buddha above, I am speaking about a particular stage of enlightenment where a being is released from the cycle of reincarnation and has obtained complete liberation. One who has attained this has removed all obscurations veiling the mind and developed all of the virtues to perfection. When giving up the body, they pass directly through all the levels of heaven to reside in nirvana. However, this being has not yet realized the real meaning of Love and the difference between the Light and the Love. In saying this, there are particular Buddhas like Amitabha that have returned Home.)
Love and Light,
Steve |
Edited by - Steve on Apr 30 2009 12:46:56 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2009 : 01:26:21 AM
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you should keep on posting more often my good friend, thk you for a breakfast filled with love and rainbow bodies and for the window about Amitabha.
namaste,
Ananda |
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chinna
United Kingdom
241 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2009 : 2:32:27 PM
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Dear Steve
Thank your for a beautiful, compassionate and wise, post, including the quotes from Yogani. As a quite new member of the forum I had not seen these before. These quotes and your post echo my own experience of 'where' and 'how' kundalini appears to flow, and its significance. And in Yogani's wonderfully helpful way, they 'demystify' the various dogmatic positions which so many teachers and schools take about this most esoteric, and potentially alarming, of subjects. This is such an important service for those whose kundalini opens up unexpectedly or without direct practice. I wish I had found AYP at that stage, it might have saved a lot of trouble. For many years, I wondered if I had unwittingly done something terribly wrong in my spiritual practice, and dogmatic statements from various sources about the dangers of kundalini practice, or about precise routes of kundalini which did not match my experience, even in one case about the 'demonic' nature of a downwards flow of kundalini, did nothing to reassure me or to make me feel less alone with these experiences at the time. I think there may be many who could find your post, and Yogani's sane teaching about this, immensely helpful.
Thanks again for your wisdom.
Chinna |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 4:38:07 PM
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Hi Chinna,
Welcome to the forum. Its great to have you here.
Regarding Yogani and the forum, I am in complete agreement with you. Yogani's clear presentation of AYP and this forum where everyone can share and learn from each other is a wonderful blessing to many around the world. They are demystifying and clarifying the steps of spiritual growth in simple layman terms and providing an effective integrated set of practices that can provide any individual an opportunity to experience that growth for themselves.
Much Love and Light to you,
Steve |
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The center channel is in FRONT of the spinal cord
