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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 04 2008 : 09:44:22 AM
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How many Advaitans does it take to change a light bulb?
71.
Ten Advaitans to say that it is the GRASPING of the lightbulb that has burnt it out, and if it only stops clinging, it will be shining again.
Ten Advaitans to say No, it is the attachment to the LIGHT of the old bulb that has burnt out the old bulb.
Ten Advaitans to say No, it is HOLDING ON to the possibility of a NEW bulb that breaks the old.
Ten Advaitans to say, No, it is the CLINGING to the WRAPPER that the NEW light-bulb comes in that causes the darkness.
Ten Advaitans to say, No, just let go, just BE STILL. Never mind the lightbulb, there is neither light nor darkness.
Ten Advaitans to say, No, No, No, No, that the burnt-out lightbulb is ALREADY supremely AWAKE and SHINES AS IT IS.
Ten Advaitans to say why the guy who is changing the lightbulb right now won't be a success in his approach, and to each prescribe the ULTIMATE final non-doing or the not-even-thinking-of-not-doing of the wrist... the final RELEASE which...
One Advaitan to change the lightbulb.
When he had it done, the other 70 Advaitans were all glad that there was light in the room again. It had been months since the bulb had gone out, and it was getting dark and crowded. Some of the more junior ones cheered, but they were soon sitting in embarrassed silence, realizing their faux pas; their cheering was an admission that something had actually happened, and of course nothing had. But still they could all now see better in the light of the bulb, and better read Sailor Bob, Nisagardatta Maharaj, Krishnamurti ...
'Hold, on', one of them said. 'There's something wrong with this story.' He addressed the man who had changed the lightbulb. 'You aren't an Advaitan at all. We saw you, you changed that bulb on purpose. An Advaitan would never do that, because it is an admission that there is something to be done, something to Realize. Tell the truth, you're a yogi, aren't you?'
'There is no mistake here,' the yogi said. 'I am a yogi but I am also an Advaitan. When you change enough light-bulbs, the true Advaita Vedanta comes to you as part of the enlightenment process. Everything you do eventually has a quality of not-doing and non-effort, as if nothing and everything is happening in one eternally churning spiritual sea, beyond time, form, and self and other, one sea to which nothing can be added, and nothing taken away. When you live here, you truly experience Advaita Vedanta.'
'Mind you', he said, raising a finger to emphasize his point, 'truly experiencing Advaita Vedanta is not the same thing as the Great Advaita Yada Yada Yada, the mere talking or preaching Advaita Vedanta, or the mere grasping of its concepts.'
'Oh, by the way, it could be a good year before I pass by this house again and the bulb could be out again for months. You really should consider changing the lightbulb yourselves. Also, I think a lot of you could benefit from getting some exercise, and maybe getting out in general.'
He threw the old bulb and the wrapper of the new bulb into the trash, then went home to fix dinner for his kids.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2008 : 10:50:34 AM
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Hahahahahaha.
Thanks for the wonderful story David....I almost dribbled a little in my pants I think.
Love,
Carson |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2008 : 5:16:25 PM
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all hail oh wise and mighty David...
thx for the good laughs , this story is not just funny.
when i was reading it this sentence came over my head: wise cynic.
namaste,
Ananda |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2008 : 08:50:18 AM
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Hey, david, I couldn't find that writing online, so I figured you paraphrased it, with the yada yada yada. I thought it was great, btw. So I was wondering who wrote it?
Thank you:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Dec 05 2008 09:19:02 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2008 : 11:22:22 AM
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Thanks for the compliments folks. Interesting that you should say 'wise cynic' Ananda -- the original cynic philosophers of Ancient Greece very much believed both in wisdom and in being happy. It's interesting how much their image became distorted -- I think some of that may have been due to an attempt, by the religious thought-political powers of Europe centuries ago, to misrepresent the 'competition' .
VIL, I wrote it myself.
I felt that some of our Yoga discussions were becoming derailed by incoming 'Advaitans' who quite misguidedly thought they needed to set us straight, and I thought that there would be more of them soon, to derail more discussions. So I felt the need to prepare. That little story may be preventative as well as curative.
Sometimes, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. True for a metaphorical picture as it is for a real one.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 08 2008 10:35:38 AM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2008 : 4:48:51 PM
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Points well taken, david. Thank you.
Take care:
VIL |
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2008 : 11:51:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
I felt that some of our Yoga discussions were becoming derailed by incoming 'Advaitins' who quite misguidedly thought they needed to set us straight, and I thought that there would be more of them soon, to derail more discussions. So I felt the need to prepare.
That is a point well-taken indeed, David!
In fact, too many derailed (AYP) yoga discussions would be considered by many as a de facto derailment of the thrust of the core AYP message.
Too much openness and "universality" of discussed topics makes for the possibility of easy (incidental and/or targeted) derailment and dilution of core message.
Maybe the preparedness you envision may include a judicious restructuring of the discussion framework itself?
Glagbo. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2008 : 10:34:58 AM
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Hi Glagbo,
I suppose we'll just wait and see how much a problem it becomes. I think the community is already starting to build its own defenses against it. If those spontaneous community defenses work (and I think they will), that would be better than an administrative solution.
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2008 : 3:28:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Hi Glagbo,
I suppose we'll just wait and see how much a problem it becomes. I think the community is already starting to build its own defenses against it. If those spontaneous community defenses work (and I think they will), that would be better than an administrative solution.
Hi David:
I would agree with you on the wait and see stance. The AYP community has proven very resilient at withstanding and even absorbing all so far: A clear testimony to the breadth and depth of the wisdom present in the AYP community, anchored in deep inner silence and outpouring love.
After all, anyone who knocks at the door at AYP is implicitly requesting advanced yoga education .
As Yogani would say: "Bring them on!"
Glagbo
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 01:04:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
I think the community is already starting to build its own defenses against it. If those spontaneous community defenses work (and I think they will), that would be better than an administrative solution.
Hey David, I think if a post is too far out in orbit, the best solution is to just not reply to it. I don't know if that's the "defense" you speak of. But I've read some posts that I just couldn't relate to and I didn't have anything relevant to add/object/question/etc.
I welcome and appreciate all perspectives (and do read such posts), but there is not always a practical/relevant response I can contribute.
Great story! I LOL'd
With Love
cosmic |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 11:35:53 AM
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LOL! Very funny. I loved it. Very creative. I wonder who you could possibly be talking about? What a mystery...
Oh wait, I see a train of thought coming. It's quite dualistic. Duhduh duh! Never fear, I'll go derail it!
TMS |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 12:46:14 PM
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Glad you can be good natured about this thread TMS. I wondered when you would see it and comment. I can't speak for anyone else here, but don't take this thread personally even though it may seem directed at you. There is a divine paradox within the Adviata debate and I personally think that we need a blending of both to be truly whole. Maybe I am speaking out of turn.
Anyways, just wanted you to know that I for one am glad you are here at the AYP forums and hope that you won't take this thread as a "get outta here you Advaitan" message, cause I doubt it was meant as such. I'm no Adviatan, (not exclusively anyways) but I can appreciate the majority of what you have to say and I would be sad if you stopped posting. Good luck with the train!
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Dec 10 2008 1:50:33 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 2:07:16 PM
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TMS:
I wonder who you could possibly be talking about? What a mystery...
TMS, the story is about me -- what I am when being wise and being a fool. And about all of us -- when being wise and being a fool.
If you feel 'targeted' in some way, to set you at ease, shortly before you came here, we had a visit from someone who used to post his/her messages to the community directly into 'Gurus, Sages and Higher Beings' (they have since been moved to Satsang Cafe where they belong). This person didn't have much use for yoga either, apparently. Completedly different vibe to TMS when you look under the surface, but sometimes looking similar to TMS on the surface. I must confess that I might not have been able to distinguish one from the other in the beginning.
There are lessons though in my story for all of us to learn in one way or another. It does become very easy for the mind of any of us to think it has captured The Answer. Of course, The Answer will never be captured by anyone. It's always there, belonging to no-one. And if the mind of any of us starts to think The Answer belongs to it, then The Answer will pull the rug out from under it in time.
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 2:15:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
TMS:
I wonder who you could possibly be talking about? What a mystery...
TMS, the story is about me -- what I am when being wise and being a fool. And about all of us -- when being wise and being a fool.
If you feel 'targeted' in some way, to set you at ease, shortly before you came here, we had a visit from someone who used to post his/her messages to the community directly into 'Gurus, Sages and Higher Beings' (they have since been moved to Satsang Cafe where they belong). This person didn't have much use for yoga either, apparently. Completedly different vibe to TMS when you look under the surface, but sometimes looking similar to TMS on the surface. I must confess that I might not have been able to distinguish one from the other in the beginning.
There are lessons though in my story for all of us to learn in one way or another. It does become very easy for the mind of any of us to think it has captured The Answer. Of course, The Answer will never be captured by anyone. It's always there, belonging to no-one. And if the mind of any of us starts to think The Answer belongs to it, then The Answer will pull the rug out from under it in time.
Hi David_Oblivion, If the answer belongs to no one, then I'm no one. You are an interesting fellow.
HA HA!
TMS |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 4:32:22 PM
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If I may quote our dear friend Yogani from an older thread:
"Hi All:
A modern Buddhist quotation:
"Don't sweat the small stuff. It's all small stuff."
If we translate that into AYP terms, it comes out something like this:
"Don't sweat the scenery. It's all scenery."
The guru is in you. |
Edited by - Balance on Dec 10 2008 4:45:54 PM |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 10:42:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Glad you can be good natured about this thread TMS. I wondered when you would see it and comment. I can't speak for anyone else here, but don't take this thread personally even though it may seem directed at you. There is a divine paradox within the Adviata debate and I personally think that we need a blending of both to be truly whole. Maybe I am speaking out of turn.
Anyways, just wanted you to know that I for one am glad you are here at the AYP forums and hope that you won't take this thread as a "get outta here you Advaitan" message, cause I doubt it was meant as such. I'm no Adviatan, (not exclusively anyways) but I can appreciate the majority of what you have to say and I would be sad if you stopped posting. Good luck with the train!
Love,
Carson
Hi Carson! No worries. I have an incredibly thick skin. BTW how are you feeling? Still better? Oh ya. I'm not an advaita. I subscribe to buddhist non-dualism, not monism, in interdependent origination and emptiness.
TMS |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2008 : 10:47:07 AM
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Good Morning TMS,
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Hi Carson! BTW how are you feeling? Still better?
Actually I'm still doing pretty good. I haven't HAD to smoke pot first thing in the am since we last talked about it. I HAVE smoked a few times regardless, but it is still improving. Yesterday I started trying a new thing as well. I baked a batch of "brownies" (yeah the "special" ones) and ate one at around noon instead of smoking a joint because I decided to leave all ganja at home. For the past 15 or so years I have always carried around a knapsack or a backpack or a laptop bag or some kind of bag with all of my "accessories" and "supplies" etc. Usually it was filled with ganja as I used to sell it, but now it is just carried around with my own personal stash in it along with the supplies necessary to smoke. But I figured, "Hey, why not eat a brownie so I'm not totally jonesing all day long, and leave my bag at home so I can only smoke at home?" This is turning out to be a great strategy because in July I moved into a new house with my wife where I cannot smoke ganja inside the house out of respect for the fact that my upstairs neighbors have a kid who's about 12. And I live in Calgary, Canada, not Oakland so it's pretty snowy and cold outside making it less enjoyable to smoke out there. So this is forcing me to smoke only when I can't take it anymore in the evenings, and I'm not smoking anything during the day. (this is after eating a brownie of course). So...."With God's help your honor, I will kick the terrible affliction" (from Trainspotting)
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Oh ya. I'm not an advaita. I subscribe to buddhist non-dualism, not monism, in interdependent origination and emptiness.
Definitions definitions.....a rose by any other name my friend....
Love,
Carson |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2008 : 12:02:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Definitions definitions.....a rose by any other name my friend....
Love,
Carson
Hi Carson! I'm so glad you are feeling better. Remember the miraculous power of healing courses through you.
I suppose I once thought that monism and shunyata were one and the same. I don't think so anymore. Alas, I shall no longer beat the horse's carcass.
Ahh...
Surrender, TMS |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2008 : 12:47:53 PM
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HA! HA! TMS,
I was just trying to get a rise out of you with my "defintions definitions" comment. I understand why we have them AND that there is a difference between monism and shunyata. I'm just poking fun. Sorry I wasn't more clear Beat that dead horsey all you want 
Love,
Carson
P.S. Subscibing "to buddhist non-dualism, not monism, in interdependent origination and emptiness" is labelling yourself. Just another belief needing to be stripped away Still poking fun...what a jerk I am |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Dec 11 2008 12:51:51 PM |
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How many Advaitans to change a lightbulb?
