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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 10:56:33 AM
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Hi David,
quote:
Originally posted by David Obsidian
Be careful with those negative-insinuation-laden words like 'crutch'. What is the difference between a crutch and a tool?
The word crutch doesn't have to have a negative connotation to it! I don't think of a crutch in negative terms and I certainly wasn't meaning it as negative in my above statement! I don't see ANY difference between a crutch and a tool.
quote:
Originally posted by David Obsidian
The discourse will become clearer and more open if what is insinuated about the tool ( which makes it a 'crutch') is instead stated clearly, without the label.
I think it is you who is labelling....labelling the word crutch as negative. Crutches are both useful and necessary for many people in many circumstances.
quote:
Originally posted by David Obsidian
Is it really a problem with the tool?
No. No one said there was a problem with the mantra being a tool. This is projected.
quote:
Originally posted by David Obsidian
Or is the tool being misused, and where, and in what way?
I'm sure it is somewhere, but what does that matter anyways? I'm not quite sure what you are getting at with this line of questioning. Please elaborate if you wouldn't mind.
quote:
Originally posted by David Obsidian
Is it something that has a useful lifespan as a tool and then should be let go?
Yeah probably, but I am not 100% sure on this.
quote:
Originally posted by David Obsidian
Is it being insinuated that someone should have already let it go, but didn't?
Not by me!
quote:
Originally posted by David Obsidian
Or is it always a bad tool? Does it just not do its job. Etc. etc.
Not labelling any tools good or bad. Tools are tools. Useful for some in some circumstances, not so useful for others in their circumstances.
Hope this clarifies a little.
Love,
Carson
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 11:13:53 AM
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Carson, if 'crutch' doesn't have a negative connotation for you, good for you, but I think that's unusual.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 11:28:49 AM
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I'm pretty unusual so nothing new there, haha.
Love,
Carson |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 1:59:48 PM
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The word "crutch" to some people could come across in the same vane as the word "trap".
Everything we engage in could be ragarded as a trap, for instance.
A more accurate way of looking at it however, would be that "eventually" everything becomes a trap.
When we reach the point of exhausting the usefullness of some sort of process or other - it only then "becomes" a trap - but not untill then - untill then it is a useful tool.
So, is saying a mantra a trap?
Probably, if one gets stuck on it and is not prepared to let it go, ever.
In AYP the mantra is allowed to fade and disappear. It is only when we realise it is gone that we return. This realisation is "us" back in duality (wheather we like it or not ) and we continue with the mantra untill we realise again that it has disappeared.
Where we were in between is another matter.
Just thought I'd crutch up the conversation with my 2 cents
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 2:07:16 PM
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Hi Sparkle,
What you are saying is exactly what I was trying to say. You did a much better job of it then I did. Thanks.
Love,
Carson |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 2:13:40 PM
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Carson, AYP will make a note not to make you Director of Marketing: 'And here is our favorite crutch in our bag of crutches -- deep meditation' 
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 2:18:19 PM
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Yes...I've never been much good at "selling" anything.
Love,
Carson |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 2:36:12 PM
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quote:
Yes...I've never been much good at "selling" anything.
Love,
Carson
Go to Top of Page
It is only through your beautiful renditions that I became inspired enough to be able to help.
Thanks for the inspiration |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 2:37:12 PM
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Dear Santa (I mean Carson ... HA! .. HA! (TMS version of HA!) .. or should I say HO! .. HO! .. HO! (Santa's mantra))  
I'd like to place an order for three dozen crutches to go ... and could you please send them in holiday wrap in time for Christmas ...
Well, like it or not ... Carson ... looks like you are a great marketing rep ... sold me without selling at all ...
Thanks for all your contributions to the forum.
And David thank you too. I much appreciate the straightforwardness and balancing your posts add to the many forum topics you have commented on ... Whether folks agree to a particular post or not, they have led to good honest discussions that help us all.
A wonderful holiday season to both of you ...
Love and Light,
Steve
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 2:42:28 PM
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Hi Sparkle, Steve,
Thank you both for your kind words. I'm blushing . But really the practices sell themselves.
Love,
Carson |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 2:45:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
The word "crutch" to some people could come across in the same vane as the word "trap".
Everything we engage in could be ragarded as a trap, for instance.
A more accurate way of looking at it however, would be that "eventually" everything becomes a trap.
When we reach the point of exhausting the usefullness of some sort of process or other - it only then "becomes" a trap - but not untill then - untill then it is a useful tool.
So, is saying a mantra a trap?
Probably, if one gets stuck on it and is not prepared to let it go, ever.
In AYP the mantra is allowed to fade and disappear. It is only when we realise it is gone that we return. This realisation is "us" back in duality (wheather we like it or not) and we continue with the mantra untill we realise again that it has disappeared.
Where we were in between is another matter.
Just thought I'd crutch up the conversation with my 2 cents
"Training wheels" is more apt. I like to introduce people with different training wheels. Mantra is one, and I also like music from the Gyuto Tantric Choir and other auditory entrainments. I'm also very gooey about yantra art, staring at energetic forms. When we combine these things we get a wonderful effect.
There's no trying involved, it's just like watching TV, except good for you. Sip a little tea, stare at an image (a backlit digital image is nice), listen to a track, smell some incense, sit on a nice cushion in padmasana with proper posture. Other asanas and mudras are favored as well. I also am partial to dance, twirling, sexual trance and tai chi. These sensory experiences combine to lead one into bliss and bliss into meditation.
As one enters meditation, the sounds, the image, the feelings and scents fade away. My practice favors non-doing, drifting, letting go. Mine is the path of feeling and flowing. The only discipline I favor is observing the mind, the body and the breath.
Ahhh...
WE ARE THE COSMOS!
TMS |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Dec 03 2008 3:43:16 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 4:21:48 PM
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Sounds pretty complicated TMS.... I like just sitting in silence
Love,
Carson |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2008 : 5:32:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Sounds pretty complicated TMS.... I like just sitting in silence
Love,
Carson
Some people even like to visualize threads flowing as a circuit from their asses into their brains. Go figure. I also like standing in silence, something on my head.
Cheers!
TMS |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Dec 03 2008 6:13:23 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2008 : 10:45:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Some people even like to visualize threads flowing as a circuit from their asses into their brains.
Haha...and imagine their surprise when that thread comes alive and they can actually SEE it without having to visualize!!!
Love,
Carson |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2008 : 3:27:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Some people even like to visualize threads flowing as a circuit from their asses into their brains.
Haha...and imagine their surprise when that thread comes alive and they can actually SEE it without having to visualize!!!
Love,
Carson
The power of the mind is vast. |
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stillness
Canada
34 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 08:40:17 AM
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hahahahahaha
I found this thread and just had to add a post
I see the game and I play it.
The words reflect, bounce, travel and bring about the play, but the real Truth was already there to begin with, and no one could tell you about it. !!!
We all know each other, and hey
I love you
Couldn't resist saying "hi" ~
Peace, Love, Light, Unmanifest Existence (<- means nothing to anyone)
stillness |
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Beyond Consciousness
