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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 27 2008 : 2:49:29 PM
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Happy Thanksgiving! May all of you attain perfect peace in this lifetime, and lead all of us out of darkness and into enlightenment. I place my faith in you. What follows is for advanced meditators; Yoganiji does not recommend this practice for beginners. It can lead to destabilization if you are not already grounded.
I am The Mystic Seeker, The Mysterious Sorcerer, The Mystery Scientist named Surrender. My visions of what is to come have led me to believe we have little time to waste. We must wake up quickly now; I believe, by any means necessary! Yes. My methods are direct and can be difficult to bear.
But HAVE FAITH, because the great mystery at the heart of the Cosmos provides for instant healing. Whatever, terrors are dredged up here will pass and peace will ensue. I know this. The magic of faith is underestimated.
HAVE FAITH; DO NOT DOUBT AND YOU WILL RECEIVE ANYTHING YOU ASK FOR IN SAMADHI SO LONG AS YOU BELIEVE IT AS ALREADY BEGUN ITS ARRIVAL. This is an absolute law of the Cosmos.
Whatever difficulties arise, have faith that they will pass. Knowing that your mind and body are returning to their natural state of peace will give you comfort and courage in the cold and heat.
Some of you advanced meditators and mantra sayers may find that you reach a plateau. You sense that there is a greater absorption ahead, but feel a little blocked. What is beyond bliss? I offer this to you.
Realize that you are already a fully enlightened and liberated being. You are already in a state of perfect peace, your mind is already perfectly still. You must allow it to remain undisturbed.
There is this sense, this touching upon. You may be thinking, "I am that." You are merged into bliss consciousness. Yet, there is a minute tension, bringing you back. Consciousness and Self are not absolute, they are temporary relative to the holder of the view "this is mine, that is not mine; I am this, I am not that."
Realize that just as your chest rises and falls with breath, your feelings arise and disappear with prana, your thoughts rise and fall in emptiness, all without your doing. Your breath, your feelings, your thoughts, are born and are liberated by themselves. Nothing "you" do can change that.
As observer, observe yourself observing, see that the thoughts of observer rise and disappear also without your doing. Let it go.
Feel... sense the prana's urge to touch upon mind, and mind's urge to touch upon a sense, a consciousness. A bliss experience implies the experiencer.
Realize that your body arises and disappears without your doing. The Earth solidified and will fade without our doing. The universe condensed, expanded and will fade without your doing.
Consciousness imagines universes by concentrating rainbow light, wakes, and returns to sleep fading the rainbow away into a state of perfect peace, the original state, totally undisturbed.
Why do you wonder what remains? All things are created, live and pass fully liberated, the breath into the limitless sky, the sky into the limitless space.
In your meditation, when the slight urge arises to be conscious, it's okay, notice it; let it go. This is great peace.
Once liberated, see the incredible pain we all suffer disillusioned. Have a heart, accept the path and lead us all out of darkness. My wish is to follow you.
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Please consider these simple bliss states as introductions to untangling the interdependence of self upon the material plane. The self is a concoction. Don't be led astray by shining lights; don't go chasing rainbows. These practices will assist in gaining the correct view that proceeds until total untangling. Cling to nothing whatsoever, merge with and blend into the mystical whole.
The Technique: Before entering the bliss state, expend all breath and hold as long as possible. Wait until there is a screaming urge to breathe. Feel the surge around the heart rising into head. Breathe all the way in feeling surge glow about heart. Hold breath as long as possible. Feel urge surge swelling into screaming urge to exhale. Feel the surge permeate about the chest, and head. Now relax. Breathe easy, calm the breath with slow breathing. As you breathe, be aware, not of breath, but of this subtle urge near the heart. Allow your attention to follow into the heart-center with the urge as the object of your meditation. Calm the urge. Follow in as it subsides in intensity, becoming mellow, subtle. This is called "guarding the gate" of life.
1. While mindful of the breathing urge in spine near the heart, listen to the Gyuto Tantric Choir. Find their CD or MP3 with the long hymns Yamantaka and Mahakala; they should be in the 60 minute range. As you become familiar with them, try to chant along in your mind. You will need a good sound system that allows you to adjust the levels. You must be able to hear the secondary sounds that result from the acoustic intertwining of the monks voices. These secondary sounds allow one to grasp dependent origination and thereby understand the secondary nature of a self. Effective.
2. Same except listen to the sonic entrainment CD from www.perfectmeditation.com. <--no affiliation, just tried and liked.
3. Sexual tantra. Follow the AYP understanding of pre-orgasmic hold back method. This is absolutely essential. All I would add is that both partners should hold back; as both hold back, the moment before orgasm will be in synch. Once that happens, try to time the moment before orgasm with extremely, deliciously, slow motions. As the motions slow, draw the kundalini up into the spot of the breath urge, in the spine, near the heart, the anahat chakra, the chakra of balance, often depicted as "The Star of David." One parter should be seated siddhasana, half-lotus or on knees seated on heals.
4. Combine the Gyuto Tantric Choir with sexual meditation.
5. Just do the mindfulness of the breath urge in the heart center (practicing mindfulness, meaning simply observe the rising and disappearing of all thoughts and feeling, including I-ness, bliss and consciousness)
6. If you can do the deep throat vocalization like the Gyuto Monks, then you can do "OM," "OM MANI PADME HUNG," or "OM AH HUNG." The deep throat vocalization vibrates the chest cavity like a drum, like a singing bowl.
7. If you can play the singing bowls, get a singing bowl that is tuned to the heart chakra. Play it for forty minutes before entering meditation.
8. Add staring at a poster or digital image of a yantra or a mandala. It should be a very vivid one. There are many examples on google images of Sri Yantra. That's a good place to start. There are independent artists who make posters too. I really like ivanrados.com's sacred geometry yantra. <--no affiliation, just liked his work. Combine these with the sonic entrainment CD's from perfectmeditation.com and you get very nice effect.
9. Mantra. As you breathe in mentally say "OM." Breathe in a slowly as possible. Hold the in-breath, but not for a long time. Say "AH" as you hold the in-breath. As you breathe out slowly, say "HOONG" out loud. Say it for as long as you can, breathing out as slowly as possible. Otherwise, keep the tongue close to the roof of the mouth and constrict the outbreath to breathe out very slowly while mentally saying "HOONG."
I mention these nine things, merely as examples. There is an extreme diversity of methods to attain bliss consciousness. These examples should give you an idea about how flexible practice can be.
It is important to note that bliss consciousness will arrive faster for you if you can manage to withhold orgasm. The energy expended during orgasm is the energy you would use to progress on the path of bliss. Nerve numbing drugs are to be avoided at all costs: that excludes all drugs except for very small amount of marijuana. Natural psychedelics are permissible on the path, but one must use care to avoid destabilizing mentally. Moderation. Use infrequently only for important reason to cross a divide of realization, to provide a boon after spending a LONG time progressing on the path.
If you are already familiar with pranayama and meditation, this will be simple. If you are already used to sensing your kundalini, then you find that these auditory experiences vibrate with such a frequency that your kundalini glow will disperse throughout your body evening it out.
Despite what the critics may say, this practice will not result on a reliance on these tools. These tools are a fast track; they are not with their dangers. Have faith. Your heart will carry you. These methods flow from the heart of compassion in light of our limited time.
Once you glimpse the peace you will proceed to the mindfulness below. The above-mentioned tools will not become a dependence, because once you see, the truth will be your crutch instead. Remember that you are loved; and because of love, you will be saved.
Once the glow feels evenly permeated through the body, stop and practice mindfulness of the urge to breathe at the heart center. You should get the sense of deep relaxation and of LOSING YOURSELF in the midst of the sound, bodies, motion and breath. You will find that this draws you into samadhi quickly. This will train you to release the constituents of ego at will for insight work in samadhi.
Remember the moment when you felt like you lost yourself in the music, in dance, in love, in the eyes of a lover, on a vacation somewhere? This is lose yourself meditation. You're not saying "I AM." You are getting the sense that 'I' is a tangle of nerves, feelings, memories and troubles. You get the sense that this 'I' is something you want to get a vacation from, to escape. I'm not talking about escapism; I'm talking about nirvana.
The ultimate joy is ultimate relief from any and all sense of "self," including a God sense of self, an "I AM" or any consciousness. In samadhi, you must not cling to or reach out for a sense of being. Continuously release and relax, release and relax. Just like in the beginning when you released your ego to enter the bliss of pre-orgasmic experience, continue to release.
I'm not advocating going unconscious. What I'm saying is that bliss consciousness is a relief from your self. Continue the relief process all the way to the end. See that all consciousness is just a 'you' holding on, striving, grasping, clinging, conjuring, seeing, and feeling. It's okay to release all these.
As you release your guard, your state of mind and your "I-ness," you will definitely sense a great release, great relief, great peace.
Remember to allow the kundalini to dwell at the heart chakra, the chakra of balance. At this level, you will be in harmony with the Cosmos. Any sense of lost self will be counter balanced by creation, preventing you from feeling totally unsupported.
As you sense the tangledness of self, you will want to dedicate all your practice to detangling self. When you detangle all the way until the end, you harmonize with the "stillness" as Yogani says it, or with the "shunyata" as the Buddha put it, or with oblivion as the Sufis put it, or with the Void as the Tantrics put it, also called Tao.
Be careful what you wish for when you emerge from this state; dedicate your practice to the full enlightenment of all living things. Without an altruistic and loving intention, you will incur catastrophic karma.
This is advanced meditation technology practice. Think of it like a calculator. You need to learn arithmetic, but once you do, you don't have to show your work and you can use a calculator. The calculator allows you to contemplate deeper understandings of logic, like the nature of zero.
Simile: Six musicians formed a band. One played a flute that said, "Wah." One played a bass guitar that said, "MMM." One played a violin that said, "Wee." One played a piano that said, "Ding." One played a drum that said, "Ump." One was the singer and she said, "Oh." They wanted to tune their instruments so they played a single note together. When they played this mysterious note at the same time for the same duration of time, the note disappeared and all we could hear was the sound of wind like "WHOO." When one instrument stopped playing we just heard the note.
Consciousness is the "WHOO."
When you enter samadhi, the path of insight proceeds as follows:
1. The path begins with Karma Yoga. The only precept of this Karma Yoga, the shared tradition of the ages is selfless love. As we are selfless in our love for one another we should also seek to ascertain why selflessness is good: it is generous, without possessions; it is caring, nurturing; it does not divide; it holds us together; it is gentle, never violent; it never attacks or defends  ; where others hold to their view tightly, we don't hold on to our views tightly ; ever full of kindness; it also regards the seeker's body as equal to the Cosmos, as such the seeker must seek perfected balance in body, speech and mind. The seeker therefore doesn't seek experience, or a goal, but only perfect balance, as if hanging by a string from the top of the crown. Selflessness in all one's actions is the only precept. It is a precept, thus a guideline, not a rule. This is not religion. This provides preliminary body-mind conditioning for the continuation of the journey through to the end.
2. The path follows with Dharma Tantra. Connecting with the law of the Cosmos. This is the easy path, doesn't require a lot of work. It flows into what we already are, like a rain on a mountain trickles into the stream already flowing down the hill. It's about harmony, literal resonate harmony with the vibration emanating from the source of the Cosmos, then as one's attuned to the light one becomes attuned to the source of the light. Like the lake feeding the river, the lake and the river are not one; they are connected. The lake is still; the river flows. We become stiller until we merge into the lake, perfectly still (no action, just still). The pointing to "that" is an instanteous spontaneous presence, emerging new every milisecond, outside of time, the moment before the burst.
Start with work to prepare the spine. This is the hard part. Do what one must to sit with spine erect for extended hours. I recommend some gym work to strengthen the trunk, abs and lower back. You will also want to condition the body so that the shoulder blades lie flat, with shoulders back. You will want to practice balanced walking. This is hard to teach with writing. Essentially, you will want to walk straight legged, with spine erect, chin slightly in to ease the neck, hips don't move; 50-50 weight distribution. You will also want to try balancing with one foot.
Next move to breathing. Lotus position. Spine erect, chin down a little, closed joints, shoulder blades flat, balanced. Breath should be easy. This is about learning to calm the body. Begin by observing breath. Understand the long breath and the short breath. Understand why, when calm, the breath is long. When disturbed, the breath is short. Notice the conditions of life that cause breath to have a certain character when it does. Then, practice calming the breath long when upset and the breath is short. Doing this allows one to observe the mind's condition when breath has long or short character. Practice calming the body and mind until one feels pleasurably relaxed. If focusing on breath alone doesn't work, draw a tiny white dot on a wall and stare at it while listening to the breath. You can also stare at the tip of the nose. Otherwise try staring at Sri Yantra or a Yantra Mandala of the Anahata Chakra. Don't move on until you achieve samadhi, blissful feelings. If this doesn't work for you, do AYP spinal breathing.
Next move to observing the pleasurable feelings of meditation, so long as you develop a samadhi. Observe the state of mind in the blissfulness. It is not a rest. The exercise here to observe the way pleasures or pleasant feelings are not tranquil. The mind trembles a bit. Use the breath calming method to attempt bliss calming. Smooth out the bliss with more relaxed and smooth breathing. Notice how bliss is stimulating. Observe how the mind responds to bliss in every breath. Sense how you may sometimes want to dance or bounce with ecstasy?
Next move to observing happiness, and joy as it arises out of bliss smoothed out by breath. When the excitement, subtle as it is, of bliss smooths out, happiness arises. Observe how the mind responds to happiness. Observe how mind's quivering flattens out. Taste the tranquility of calm. Watch for the return of bliss, continue to smooth it out with each breath. This is a refined sensation allowing for subtle thoughts.
Now observe how breath conditioned the body, like shampoo leaves coarse hair and conditioner leaves smooth hair. Now observe how breath conditions body, which conditions feelings of bliss and calm. See how bliss and calm condition the mind, they are mind conditioners. Feel the continuation along the stream. First we soothed the breath, then we soothed the feelings, then the mind. Notice how satisfaction is a precondition to happiness and peace.
Happiness is a tranquil state that only is possible when one is fully satisfied and blissful. Then, understand how you must preserve and stabilize the happiness state of tranquility. The mind must not quiver. Only then will you be able to see clearly with direct insight into the truth. With repeated experience soothing the mind into tranquility through samadhi, learn to regulate the state of tranquility. Remember that all thoughts, states and feelings are naturally impermanent, agitating the mindstuff. Just allow the mind to settle down.
If bliss or excitement arises, smooth it out with breathing and concentrating on ultimate spiritual tranquility, where no disturbances agitate the mind, total release from all spiritual irritants. Notice how the state of bliss is delightful, and delight is exciting; in turn, surmise how repulsiveness is equally exciting. Notice how both are temporary, use wisdom and breath to smooth out the mind into tranquility. Don't be deceived into loving or hating; do not be led by the nose. Recall loving and selfless kindness conditions the path. You want to gain control of stabilizing tranquility.
Move on to observing the heart-mind (mood). Begin with conditioning body, feelings and mind with the long breath. Soothe all the conditions. Observe the thoughts that come to mind when one his tranquil and what thoughts come to mind when blissful and excited. Notice whether the heart-mind has lust or aversion, toward anything, ideas, objects, persons, etc. Observe whether it is free of them. Notice whether the heart-mind feels excited, infatuated or confused by some belief; or whether it is free of confusion on a topic. Observe if these states cause the heart-mind to be distracted or not. Now while smoothing out the heart-mind with breath, slowly soothing with out of flitting after this and that, notice if the mind is in a better than usual state or a usual and common state. Is the heart-mind yet aware of tranquility as a superior state? Return to using the breath to soothe the body, feelings, mind and heart-mind. You are moving deeper into samadhi.
Take joy in knowing you have succeeded in soothing mind, and can induce tranquility at will. Now your mind should be calm, cool and collected. You are moving into the lake from the stream. It should also feel ready; there should be a latent energy, a fitness to perform the task ahead. Now you are balanced and fit. There should be mental clarity. The tranquil and collected mind can easily perceive temporariness, unsatisfactoriness and selflessness of states of body, feelings, mind and heart-mind (mood). Clarity, collectedness, and readiness are interdependent to achieve the quality of tranquility. Smooth out and sooth body, feelings, mind and mood with the soothing breath.
Now we move to liberating the mind from clinging and grasping. Think of static free mind. Mind which nothing clings to; free in the sense of free of dust and clutter. Examine how all things we cling to, especially views, cause pain and discontent. The holding on causes a perspective to arise, the perspective of "my view," "my idea," "my belief." Observe the discontent that arises from holding on, and the tranquility that comes from letting go of the view. When observing this way, the mind will naturally let go. Feel the tranquility further stabilize by letting go of the view. This makes it easier to let go of excited bliss states, sensual pleasure and superstitious practices. Most importantly, let go of the views and the confusions; don't resolve them. Let the mind relax and sooth with the breath into its natural state. Observe how you are treating yourself well, by letting go; notice how your tranquility is you being nice to you; you leaving yourself alone, not disturbing yourself, leaving yourself in peace. Your act of selflessness extends to yourself; just as you would not agitate others, you cease agitating yourself.
Now move to observing temporariness. See the temporary state of agitation, of breathing in and out, of soothing, of the soothed state, of the mind's and mood's states, of the body, of the Earth, of the Cosmos. See that feelings and soothing of feelings are impermanent. That bliss and tranquility are impermanent. That samadhi is impermanent. Notice that there is no holding onto any of these states. There is nothing yourself can do to sustain them. Trying to hold on to them is frustrating. Be selfless to yourself and do not force yourself to hang onto them. See that even tranquility is an empty joy. Release the desire to enter it while soothing the body, feelings, mind, mood, and desire for lasting joy with the breath. See how the breath soothes all these states one into the next, in a stream of causality and flux.
Notice how temporariness is sprouts into dissatisfaction, which sprouts into an empty feeling. Treat yourself selflessly and sooth and smooth out the desire to hold on to any particular state. Let the slow soothing breath be slow and soothing, fearing no death, end or beginning of a condition of the body, of losing a relationship, of losing a view, or end of happiness. Be selfless to yourself and don't hold yourself to keeping a state or view; it's not possible.
Now contemplate what life would be like if you were, angry, lustful, excited, blissful, disturbed, and frustrated by failed attempts to hold onto temporary joy? It all belongs to nature. We are the Cosmos. Therefore, release the burden of holding on, even to the subtlest views, feelings and moods, deep in meditation. Don't be weighed down by the burdens of the world. Be above the world. Be selfless to yourself, love yourself, be kind to yourself and let yourself be at ease. Be very compassionate to yourself and allow yourself the deep peace of total tranquility.
Now the dancing and celebrating can be a true joy, where you easily lose yourself in the dance, the rhythm and togetherness. You are harmonized with the source of the Cosmos, the great Mystery of mysteries. You are like Lord Shiva balancing one footed atop the stupid dwarf, above all ignorance, away from all burden. You may discern that which is beyond temporary and cannot be grasped, the permanent tranquility of free from all holding on.
All this is possible due simply to the body conditioner, the smooth soothing long breath. This starts the ball rolling, flattening out all other disturbances.
Now what is in your heart as you observe others, burdened and disturbed? Can you feel their disquiet? How does that make you feel? Sense the breath urge about the heart as you sooth and breathe the long breath. We are the Cosmos, entwined together, as you are soothed others come with you. Treat them selflessly allowing others to see your burdenless happiness, and you be a means to the liberation of all.
Nirvana simply means coolness, collectedness, readiness; mostly just cool, tranquil lake.
Respect and blessings,
HA!
Surrender
Ah...
TMS
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Edited by - themysticseeker on Dec 10 2008 11:16:01 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 10:15:33 AM
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quote:
Happy Thanksgiving! May all of you attain perfect peace in this lifetime, and lead all of us out of darkness and into enlightenment. I place my faith in you.
Some of you advanced meditators and mantra sayers may find that you reach a plateau. You sense that there is a greater absorption ahead, but feel a little blocked. What is beyond bliss? I offer this to you.
Realize that you are already a fully enlightened and liberated being. You are already in a state of perfect peace, your mind is already perfectly still. You must allow it to remain undisturbed.
There is this sense, this touching upon. You may be thinking, "I am that." You are merged into bliss consciousness. Yet, there is a minute tension, bringing you back.
Realize that just as your chest rises and falls with breath, your feelings arise and disappear with prana, your thoughts rise and fall in emptiness, all without your doing. Your breath, your feelings, your thoughts, are born and are liberated by themselves. Nothing "you" do can change that.
As observer, observe yourself observing, see that the thoughts of observer rise and disappear also without your doing. Let it go.
Feel... sense the prana's urge to touch upon mind, and mind's urge to touch upon a sense, a consciousness. A bliss experience implies the experiencer.
Realize that your body arises and disappears without your doing. The Earth solidified and will fade without our doing. The universe condensed, expanded and will fade without your doing.
Consciousness imagines universes by concentrating rainbow light, wakes, and returns to, sleep fading the rainbow away into a state of perfect peace, the original state, totally undisturbed.
Why do you wonder what remains? All things are created, live and pass fully liberated, the breath into the limitless sky, the sky into the limitless space.
In your meditation, when the slight urge arises to be conscious, it's okay, notice it; let it go. This is great peace.
Once liberated, see the incredible pain we all suffer disillusioned. Have a heart, accept the path and lead us all out of darkness. My wish is to follow you.
Ah...
TMS
Beautiful post TMS... thanks for writing that.
I take it you assume that the unmanifest alone is real, and that the manifest is unreal. Is that right?
If that is right, what makes you think that?
Christi |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 11:24:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Beautiful post TMS... thanks for writing that.
I take it you assume that the unmanifest alone is real, and that the manifest is unreal. Is that right?
If that is right, what makes you think that?
Christi
Hi Christi, I am more interested in enlightenment than philosophy. I say that because the focus of our exchange is how to reach enlightenment rather than what is real or not. For purposes of meditation, it is better to cling to nothing whatsoever, and once released to grasp at nothing whatsoever. For many yogis, the final "thing" to cling to is consciousness, a sense of "I AM," especially if that "I" is a god-consciousness or an inarticulate sense of being. This is not a satisfactory state and is a stumbling block in samadhi. The ego runs deep and usually wins in the end, because we identify even with a god. Do we want to be a god or do we want to be free right now? Continuation of release even of being, not-being, consciousness or unconsciousness is the final place of the self's urge to become. It is the final knot that needs to be smoothed out in meditation.
Do I think the manifest is unreal? Yes. I do. Just as there are gaps between breaths, thoughts and universes, there is a gap between being/non-being, consciousness/unconsciousness, this gap what you are calling the unmanifest. It is the storehouse of possibility; so it is not nothing. It is the source of life and miracles; so it is not non-being.
Rather, you may only encounter it in a state of harmony with it when you have ceased clinging to anything whatsoever, even the final sense of "I am this," or inarticulate "consciousness." |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 11:42:15 AM
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| God is Love. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 1:51:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
God is Love.
If God is Love, then that means God loves. If you love, then aren't you also Love? If you are Love, then aren't you God? If you are God, and you are meditating, are you going to meditate on yourself? Isn't that a little self-centered?
Love is not self-centered. Love is a selfless act. If Love is an act of selflessness, and God loves, then God acts selflessly. If God is Love, and Love requires being selfless, then being God requires being selfless. Therefore, God is selfless.
If God is Love, as you say, and Love is selfless, then God is selfless. God has no Self.
If you want to meditate on God, to be an image of God or Love as God does, then you, too, must also be selfless. If you are selfless, then you have no Self.
You can safely disregard any state of being, Self or Divine Consciousness in your mediation. As Love, your essential nature has no self. Love emanates from a selfless source of the Cosmos. |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Nov 28 2008 1:56:35 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 2:28:21 PM
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Hi TMS,
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
If God is Love, then that means God loves.
Yes.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
If you love, then aren't you also Love?
Yes.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
If you are Love, then aren't you God?
If I am Love then I am a manifestation of God. Basically, yes.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
If you are God, and you are meditating, are you going to meditate on yourself? Isn't that a little self-centered?
I am going to meditate on the secret name of God....i am. And no this is not self-centred. I'm not meditating on the idea of my-Self.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Love is not self-centered. Love is a selfless act.
I agree 100%
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
If Love is an act of selflessness, and God loves, then God acts selflessly. If God is Love, and Love requires being selfless, then being God requires being selfless. Therefore, God is selfless.
Again, I agree 100%.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
If God is Love, as you say, and Love is selfless, then God is selfless. God has no Self.
Agreed.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
If you want to meditate on God, to be an image of God or Love as God does, then you, too, must also be selfless. If you are selfless, then you have no Self.
Trying my best.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
You can safely disregard any state of being, Self or Divine Consciousness in your mediation. As Love, your essential nature has no self. Love emanates from a selfless source of the Cosmos.
On the same page here man. Not sure exactly what I said in my original posting "God is Love" that you disagree with, if anything.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Nov 28 2008 3:18:36 PM |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 3:31:54 PM
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quote:
On the same page here man. Not sure exactly what I said in my original posting "God is Love" that you disagree with, if anything.
I don't disagree. I simply point out that God is not the focus, love is. If love is the focus, then selflessness is the focus. Love and kindness emanates from the source, also known as selflessness.
It is preferable to have selflessness as the initial object of meditation than "I AM," clearly not secret since you know about it. Deep understanding of selflessness is responsible for understanding the true nature of love, life and your purpose. "I am" the cause of disharmony.
Deep understanding of selflessness is required for enlightenment. Unless your relinquish your ties to a "Self" and "I-ness" you will not reach the goal. "I AM" and selflessness are at odds. Meditating on God and selflessness are at odds.
We are not trying to go back to God. We are trying to live here on Earth ideally. We depend on one another, not God. As you say, we are manifestations, along with Earth and the Cosmos. In fact, the Cosmos is God and so are you. What I'm advocating you do is disregard this separate sense of "I am" and blend into the selfless super-being. To do so, you must harmonize your energy with the unlimited potential of selflessness, rather than the limited nature of self.
If you need a reminder that you are divine, then so be it. If you need a reminder that you are alive, so be it. If you need a reminder that you are human, so be it.
If you want enlightenment and the power to draw others out of darkness, then leave these obvious matters behind. Focus on that which gives you the power to draw others into the the new world where we all want to be, together in harmony with each and other and the Earth Mother.
Did you think it was heaven or an other worldly realm where your happiness will be achieved? Did you think merging into a God consciousness is where your freedom lies? This is it, brother. Earth is our paradise; we have to realize it through selflessness.
Cling to nothing whatsoever, no self, no "I-ness" of any consciousness.
Love is not a consciousness. Love is selfless. Consciousness is self-nature and illusory. Love is real. It is an act. It is the "stillness in action" that Yogani describes. I simply describe it as a Great Mystery, the Mystery of mysteries. Indescribable, unknowable, beyond ideas, not doing, not thinking, containing everything, though itself not contained in anything, not even consciousness, unlimited, without cause, without a self, in perfect peace.
The miracles of the God you speak of are dependent on this mystery at the heart of the Cosmos, and, as you are an appendage of this Cosmos, and similar to the nature of the Cosmos and God, or both, at the heart of you.
At the heart of you is love, your true nature, the selfless Great Mystery of mysteries.
You cannot grasp that or apprehend that in your meditation. You must release all acts of grasping, clinging and apprehending to become harmonized with that. Once you relax and deeply let all go, you will finally leave your limited self, and join us in the collective consciousness on our journey into the new world where we will establish our longevity on this paradise planet by blending into nature, our hearts harmonized with one another and the tree of life, the Cosmic Father and the Earth Mother.
HA!
TMS
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Edited by - themysticseeker on Nov 28 2008 6:25:50 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 3:56:10 PM
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Hi TMS,
Not sure if you have read through the lessons, but I think you are basing your statements on a misuderstanding of the AYP teachings. "I AM" does not mean "I" "AM". It is just a vibration to help the mind lose itself in the "Love" of God. It is a method that can help those of us with karma still intact experience a little bit of that unconditional bliss/love that IS God. We use the mantra of "I AM" not as the words, nor the meaning. We use it as a vibration to lose ourselves in. Nothing about meditating on the vibration of I AM flies in the face of anything you, or I, am saying. True understanding of God/Love must come from deep within ourselves, and for some of us, the best method of reaching that deep inner space is through using the vibration of "i am" as a mantra. No one here is thinking "I AM" as in the sense of "I AM awesome, or I AM God, or I AM anything. Just using the refining vibration to lose ourselves in the presence of God.
Love,
Carson |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 4:57:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi TMS,
Not sure if you have read through the lessons, but I think you are basing your statements on a misuderstanding of the AYP teachings. "I AM" does not mean "I" "AM". It is just a vibration to help the mind lose itself in the "Love" of God. It is a method that can help those of us with karma still intact experience a little bit of that unconditional bliss/love that IS God. We use the mantra of "I AM" not as the words, nor the meaning. We use it as a vibration to lose ourselves in. Nothing about meditating on the vibration of I AM flies in the face of anything you, or I, am saying. True understanding of God/Love must come from deep within ourselves, and for some of us, the best method of reaching that deep inner space is through using the vibration of "i am" as a mantra. No one here is thinking "I AM" as in the sense of "I AM awesome, or I AM God, or I AM anything. Just using the refining vibration to lose ourselves in the presence of God.
Love,
Carson
Hmm. I'm afraid you are contradicting yourself. I do understand the "IAM" mantra has other uses. But Yogani states that it is to discover your "inner self." You can't lose yourself and find an "inner self" if the self was never there to begin with. Do you really think you are saying "I Am" and saying "I am not" at the same time? This "I AM" mantra is not found in the yogic texts. It is not sanskrit with an ambiguous meaning like "OM" or "OM AH HUNG." "I AM" is about your inner-self, your sense of "I"-ness, "AM"-being.
At the same time you say you "lose yourself." What you say resembles the Sufi way, "lose yourself in the presence of God." Okay. This is stage one: disregarding your conventional self. When you no longer exist, do you sense that you are God and that God exists? You are nothing in the presence of God? No? What sense of self do you think God has? God's identity is pure Love which is selflessness.
So I tell you like the Sufi master. If you haven't lost yourself in the presence of God, and thereby lost all sense of self in the bewilderment and Oblivion of God, then your goal lies ahead.
If you have lost your self, then you are truly a reflection of God's will, totally selfless and emanating pure love from deep within you, that Great Mystery which even bewilders God. Faith alone sustains all this. Utter faith in the selfless love emanating from the mystery is the source of all power, all miracles, all healing, all returning to our true natures, our perfect peace.
As a reflection of God reflecting as God reflects, merged, what God is there to speak of? It is you, brother. Are your going to pray to yourself? Or are you going to have faith? Then you may be ready to join us as we journey into the new Earth, without possessions, without even a self to speak of. We will reflect perfection on this paradise.
Until the separation ends, we will not have one heart. We won't be able to preserve ourselves on this land.
The import is subtle but powerful. To accomplish enlightenment you must cling to nothing whatsoever. All clinging is of self-nature, illusory, leading to discontent, disillusionment in your practice and ultimately sorrow and anger. This is to be avoided now; I don't want you to lose ground and alienate yourself from the path. You might otherwise disseminate a message that leads to gross ceremony and worship. It is for this reason why the Buddha challenged the Brahmins and yogis of his day. Without the correct initial view, enlightenment is a false hope.
Continue on the path of lose yourself. If you sense that path already, then lose yourself and lose your sense of "in the presence" of other, of God, any being or consciousness.
Your destination is beyond consciousness, here, now, swimming in the deep mystery of all possibility. This present instant emit GREAT POWER CREATOR OF CREATORS! Isn't that love? I don't debate to prove myself correct. I only want you to reach your goal.
I write for the enlightenment of all the world; I wish to live among the lovers in togetherness with no hint of separateness. We can break free of the cycles of destruction caused by time, only if we achieve harmony with the timeless source of the Cosmos. We will have been harmonized with the source of all things if we lose our identities, all identities to become as HE, selfless.
HA!
TMS |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Nov 28 2008 5:24:40 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 5:20:10 PM
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Carson hasn't contradicted himself to any extent in the above TMS. More like you are putting contradictory words into his mouth.
Why? Would you be able to talk to him at all if you couldn't find something to correct?
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 5:41:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Carson hasn't contradicted himself to any extent in the above TMS. More like you are putting contradictory words into his mouth.
Why? Would you be able to talk to him at all if you couldn't find something to correct?
Sir, Let's not debate. I'm sorry if we did. I love you all; if you don't see what I see or if you do, then we are well. David, I merely point out the road to the final stage. What or who are you defending anyway? All this talk is pure nonsense to begin with. The truth is beyond comprehension. Carson I did not correct you, God is love.
Wasn't it Carson who corrected me, that I don't understand what "I AM" means and misunderstand Yogani's teachings? Can you address me without challenging me?
David, what I'm interested in is why Carson responded to my post with "God is Love." I thought that was strange but poignant. My real meaning to begin with. Carson is my spiritual brother and he understands me well in his heart. Carson, why don't we re-agree, brother? And what is Love? What is the source of love? What is love's true nature so that I may become that. To me, that is a deep mystery, beyond seeing, beyond application of energy, beyond my idea of being or not-being.
David, God is love.
Ah...
TMS |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 01:10:04 AM
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Hi TMS,
quote:
Do I think the manifest is unreal? Yes. I do. Just as there are gaps between breaths, thoughts and universes, there is a gap between being/non-being, consciousness/unconsciousness, this gap what you are calling the unmanifest. It is the storehouse of possibility; so it is not nothing. It is the source of life and miracles; so it is not non-being.
quote:
Did you think it was heaven or an other worldly realm where your happiness will be achieved? Did you think merging into a God consciousness is where your freedom lies? This is it, brother. Earth is our paradise; we have to realize it through selflessness.
You seem to be quite confused here TMS. You say that you believe the manifest is unreal, and yet you say that Earth is our paradise. Is the Earth not manifest? Is our paradise unreal?
Maybe you could clarify a little?
Christi |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 04:25:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi TMS,
quote:
Do I think the manifest is unreal? Yes. I do. Just as there are gaps between breaths, thoughts and universes, there is a gap between being/non-being, consciousness/unconsciousness, this gap what you are calling the unmanifest. It is the storehouse of possibility; so it is not nothing. It is the source of life and miracles; so it is not non-being.
quote:
Did you think it was heaven or an other worldly realm where your happiness will be achieved? Did you think merging into a God consciousness is where your freedom lies? This is it, brother. Earth is our paradise; we have to realize it through selflessness.
You seem to be quite confused here TMS. You say that you believe the manifest is unreal, and yet you say that Earth is our paradise. Is the Earth not manifest? Is our paradise unreal?
Maybe you could clarify a little?
Christi
Yes Christi, There are many realms manifest. All are unreal relative to the Cosmic Source. This unreal realm happens to be the most balanced where we lucky kids get to extinguish our karma and achieve enlightenment in one lifetime.
Ah...
TMS |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 11:36:55 AM
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Hi TMS
quote:
Yes Christi, There are many realms manifest. All are unreal relative to the Cosmic Source. This unreal realm happens to be the most balanced where we lucky kids get to extinguish our karma and achieve enlightenment in one lifetime.
Ah...
Well... we might! You never know.
Are the manifest realms really unreal? I think this could be where you are going wrong. Many people get stuck in a kind of nihilism, where they accept only the reality of the darkness, and deny the reality of the light. It is an early stage of enlightenment, but is not the whole journey, just a temporary resting place.
In this place we could say... all is nothing, emptiness, void. But we would be accepting only one aspect of the divine, whilst denying another aspect (creating separation). With the emptiness (the darkness) comes the fullness of the light... creation.
Christi |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 12:14:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi TMS
quote:
Yes Christi, There are many realms manifest. All are unreal relative to the Cosmic Source. This unreal realm happens to be the most balanced where we lucky kids get to extinguish our karma and achieve enlightenment in one lifetime.
Ah...
Well... we might! You never know.
Are the manifest realms really unreal? I think this could be where you are going wrong. Many people get stuck in a kind of nihilism, where they accept only the reality of the darkness, and deny the reality of the light. It is an early stage of enlightenment, but is not the whole journey, just a temporary resting place.
In this place we could say... all is nothing, emptiness, void. But we would be accepting only one aspect of the divine, whilst denying another aspect (creating separation). With the emptiness (the darkness) comes the fullness of the light... creation.
Christi
Hi Christi,
Clarifying now. I'm not wrong. We are speaking with different "terms of art." I would never talk about the "divine." That comes from a different tradition. I would talk about the "mysterious." It is because I acknowledge a deep dark mystery as the origin of all things that I'm not a nihilist. I say "dark mystery" because I cannot penetrate it; it is unknowable and indescribable.
A nihilist is someone who has no experience and no faith. I get excited just thinking about it; but, in fact, it is Great Peace.
Why do I say the light is "unreal." Christi, my own experience in meditation confirms what I later learned was called "dependent origination" and impermanence. I think it is more aptly described as "interdependent birth" and flow. All things, no matter what things you talk about are dependent upon other things to exist. Also, all things flow into and out of existence. That's just the way it is, according to my experience.
All worlds, all things, all manifestations, are a web of connections to other things, flowing, changing and becoming other things. All things flow as a stream of becoming. No things remain the same. No things remain divine. That which is divine now and exalted, will later be banal and lurid. The one sided view that all things are divine and manifestations of the divine is oversimplified, as I see it.
What do these manifestations flow from? My experience with the deep dark mystery of emptiness is nothing nihilistic. I encountered it as the source of miracles, the reality that from nothing whatsoever, all things are possible. Therefore, emptiness is not nothing whatsoever; rather, it is all things possible, the source of the possible, the readiness and fitness to burst into being.
To accept that is why, from faith alone, faith (and not transcendental experience, but faith) alone, all your wishes will come true, so long as you do not doubt and do not fear. I will venture a bold statement, and say, "It is your fear and doubt that keeps you in the comfort of the light of divinity." You are the dream, the reason for all of this. You are the apex of that potentiality, at this time.
My faith is that it is not heaven, but HERE AND NOW, that the greatest miracles ever imagined by any God or gods, Angels or Titans, spirits or ghosts, will manifest!
I speak of perfect peace and life in perfect balance, on this Earth, the miraculous paradise planet, the envy of the Gods!
HA!
TMS |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 12:32:42 PM
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quote:
That which is divine now and exalted, will later be banal and lurid. The one sided view that all things are divine and manifestations of the divine is oversimplified, as I see it.
Aren't we just playing with words and meanings and interpretation? To one man the void, full of potential, is everything. To another pulsating life alone, with its million flowing forms, is the divine presence. Who is to say who is rigth or wrong?
When one sees that all visible things stem from the void then one sees that all those impermanent things are the divine manifested. I once read about the potential of things. A seedling plant is already a flower in potency. Everything living is already dead and alive again. The neverending breathing cycle of the universe. The realisation is knowing the divine "behind" the manifestations, but once done, the manifestations themselves glow in a new light, in loving divine presence. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 12:59:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
quote:
That which is divine now and exalted, will later be banal and lurid. The one sided view that all things are divine and manifestations of the divine is oversimplified, as I see it.
Aren't we just playing with words and meanings and interpretation? To one man the void, full of potential, is everything. To another pulsating life alone, with its million flowing forms, is the divine presence. Who is to say who is rigth or wrong?
When one sees that all visible things stem from the void then one sees that all those impermanent things are the divine manifested. I once read about the potential of things. A seedling plant is already a flower in potency. Everything living is already dead and alive again. The neverending breathing cycle of the universe. The realisation is knowing the divine "behind" the manifestations, but once done, the manifestations themselves glow in a new light, in loving divine presence.
Hi YogaIsLife,
You are right. We are just playing semantics. The practical import comes in meditation. This is how I came into this stream of AYP. My contention is that meditation is improved, deeper realization is possible, greater faith established and perfect peace obtained when letting go of concepts in meditation results in the experience of The Great Mystery of mysteries, the divine, the void, emptiness, whatever. My contention is that 'I AM' cultivates self orientation, when the converse is required. Ultimately, this is a debate about methods, not beliefs. And this method that I speak of only applies at third gyan, letting go of the final holding, a consciousness. Hence, why this thread is called, "Beyond Consciousness."
Then again, I am just a lonely yogi. I only hope to introduce a little nirvana into your temple. It's reeeally goood.
Ahhh...
Respect and blessings,
TMS |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 2:01:46 PM
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quote:
Then again, I am just a lonely yogi. I only hope to introduce a little nirvana into your temple. It's reeeally goood.
I believe you, and I thank you. But ultimately, for good or bad, it is me that is managing the temple right now and what you speak of, the method of the last letting go, seems irrelevant to me at the moment. It may be important to other, more advanced, meditators. I think though that the mantra meditation in I AM can take us very very far alone, and if we want, we have mantra enhancements and other techniques in AYP to go further. I think the letting go that you speak of also happens in AYP mantra meditation. It is clinging to nothing really, but a neutral sound. When thoughts emerge, we gently come back to mantra. There is gap there between mantrra and thoughts, and that is when we touch nothingness. This may be the miracle you speak off. That gap can be very short but can also be very long. It can happen that for 20 whole minutes you are in it, with no thoughts, and no need to say the mantra. You have surrender. Ah, but if a thought arises again you know what to do insterad of fighting with your mind...going back to the mantra...that is the cleverness of mantra meditation, for me, the transcendence of the mind, via the mind! Don't you agree? Still, it's like they say, different strikes for different folks! Each one works with what works best for them and that is alright!
But could you please specify what kind of meditation technique (since we both agree that meditation is key) you used to arrive at that final letting go?
Thank you and god bless. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 4:31:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
quote:
Then again, I am just a lonely yogi. I only hope to introduce a little nirvana into your temple. It's reeeally goood.
I believe you, and I thank you. But ultimately, for good or bad, it is me that is managing the temple right now and what you speak of, the method of the last letting go, seems irrelevant to me at the moment. It may be important to other, more advanced, meditators. I think though that the mantra meditation in I AM can take us very very far alone, and if we want, we have mantra enhancements and other techniques in AYP to go further. I think the letting go that you speak of also happens in AYP mantra meditation. It is clinging to nothing really, but a neutral sound. When thoughts emerge, we gently come back to mantra. There is gap there between mantrra and thoughts, and that is when we touch nothingness. This may be the miracle you speak off. That gap can be very short but can also be very long. It can happen that for 20 whole minutes you are in it, with no thoughts, and no need to say the mantra. You have surrender. Ah, but if a thought arises again you know what to do insterad of fighting with your mind...going back to the mantra...that is the cleverness of mantra meditation, for me, the transcendence of the mind, via the mind! Don't you agree? Still, it's like they say, different strikes for different folks! Each one works with what works best for them and that is alright!
But could you please specify what kind of meditation technique (since we both agree that meditation is key) you used to arrive at that final letting go?
Thank you and god bless.
Mantra is a great tool for entering samadhi. Samadhi has levels and a final level. They are not so much levels as feelings; rather blending of feelings into a final feeling, which is not so much a feeling as a taste, the cool taste of perfect peace. Carry on with your practice; that's the most important thing.
I described my meditation in detail above. It comes with observance of the state of the mind in deep meditation. One must use discernment to tell if there is a held item or not. The final held item for me was the yogi's "I am that." I stayed there for years, thinking I had gone as far as I could go. I examined "that." I examined "OM." I-ness and that-ness always comes in triads, this, that and ?, a mystery.
What follows is more than word games; it is the mind giving up fundamental holdings to settle into peace. Without appropriate discernment your samadhi is one-sided, body bliss with no-thought:
Now, "I am that." Is three parts, "I," "am" and "that." "I-ness" co-arises with "that-ness" from "am-ness." "I" is you as you or you as atma, let's say. "That-ness" is Isvara or Brahman, let's say. "Am-ness" is persisting through time into the present moment to moment flux. Here's the mystical hullabaloo: when you discern am-ness, as no I-ness or that-ness, am-ness itself is not discernible. A great mystery is all I can tell you.
Thus, the mind, which has clung onto, if nothing else, I-ness and That-ness since the beginning of time, finally relaxes the static cling, and no thing agitates mind again. It's not like you disappear and die; as you meditate, realizing that clinging to concepts and words are agitations, deepest samadhi settles in quickly.
The resulting taste is what the Buddha called "suchness." This word means nothing to me. But it generated the Buddha's only command to "cling to nothing whatsoever."
How I arrived at this state in meditation was that 1) I discerned time ends and all life and consciousness ends. 2) I discerned perfect peace at the end of all consciousness and time. 3) I discerned selflessness as identical to perfect peace. Then, in my meditation, I no longer keyed in on "I-ness" as any thing, nor Soul or God as any thing I was supposed to become. At that moment I was in a perfect state of peace.
Now I discern that perfect peace is superior to samadhi. It is superior not only because it is peace, but as selflessness one sees one's self as the same identical thing as all consciousness and all nature. Not as one, but intertwined in the vast spiderweb of life. Because I have experienced peace, my only wish is everyone to experience great peace.
I know that from a society established in perfect peace, this very Earth is the dharmakaya and we are the community superior even to the Gods. The potentiality of this world, which already is so perfectly balanced, is for us to attain the same balance prevalent throughout the Cosmos. This is a special world and we are special beings, the envy of all spirits, the delight of all. We can assume our role as the arbiters of perfect justice, knowing that we are one heart, one people, one land and one Cosmos.
WARNING: This is the path of the final path. It requires stabilization of the bliss state, because unless you are totally satisfied, saying "Ahh..." all the way into your body, down to your toes, onto your fingers, up your ass and into your brains, you will whimper "I am not enough" and descend into the dark pit of self-annihilation! This is the recognition of the deep dark mystery; it is NOT THE DARK PATH!
We are the Cosmos!
HA!
Respect and blessings,
Surrender |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 4:52:00 PM
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| Thanks for interesting posts! What does HA! mean? Is it a shortening for something? |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 4:58:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Thanks for interesting posts! What does HA! mean? Is it a shortening for something?
Ahh.. is the mantra of satisfaction. HA! is the mantra of discovery.
Ahh...
TMS |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 6:09:37 PM
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quote:
Now, "I am that." Is three parts, "I," "am" and "that." "I-ness" co-arises with "that-ness" from "am-ness." "I" is you as you or you as atma, let's say. "That-ness" is Isvara or Brahman, let's say. "Am-ness" is persisting through time into the present moment to moment flux. Here's the mystical hullabaloo: when you discern am-ness, as no I-ness or that-ness, am-ness itself is not discernible. A great mystery is all I can tell you.
Thank you for your post. Somehow it made sense.
Yes, I will keep on practicing. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 7:59:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
quote:
Now, "I am that." Is three parts, "I," "am" and "that." "I-ness" co-arises with "that-ness" from "am-ness." "I" is you as you or you as atma, let's say. "That-ness" is Isvara or Brahman, let's say. "Am-ness" is persisting through time into the present moment to moment flux. Here's the mystical hullabaloo: when you discern am-ness, as no I-ness or that-ness, am-ness itself is not discernible. A great mystery is all I can tell you.
Thank you for your post. Somehow it made sense.
Yes, I will keep on practicing.
What is the only path to the Truth Self, the selfless self who be you do you ask I love you I love you I love you?
Hara,
The Goddess of Compassion |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2008 : 02:55:35 AM
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Hi TMS,
quote:
Why do I say the light is "unreal." Christi, my own experience in meditation confirms what I later learned was called "dependent origination" and impermanence.
O.K. I think we are starting to get a bit deeper into things here. Thanks for clarifying.
So you have had some meditation experiences (which are now in the past). You have seen the great mystery, and the event horizon (the seed as you call it). And you have seen the white light, and the separation of the white light into the many colours. And you have seen the manifestation of form because of the nature of mind, and the crystallization of the light through the realms of being, and the crystallization of the light into this physical realm? And you have seen the ultimate interconnectedness of all things through the web of life.
Are we together so far?
And then you have read some Buddhist teachings about dependent origination, and impermanence. It seems that you have made the assumption from reading about these things that the divine light of creation is therefore unreal, because it's arising is dependent on the existence of the Great Mystery (the unmanifest potential).
If you look more closely at the teaching of dependent origination, it is actually a teaching about phenomena and form. The teaching is that all form is impermanent, and therefore devoid of lasting existence. It is not a teaching about the divine light of creation. The appearance of form only occurs in the lower manifest realms, and not in the higher realms.
quote:
It is because I acknowledge a deep dark mystery as the origin of all things that I'm not a nihilist. I say "dark mystery" because I cannot penetrate it; it is unknowable and indescribable.
A nihilist is someone who has no experience and no faith. I get excited just thinking about it; but, in fact, it is Great Peace.
A nihilist is someone who holds that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. If you deny even the reality of existence then how can you hold that it has any of these things?
quote:
I speak of perfect peace and life in perfect balance, on this Earth, the miraculous paradise planet, the envy of the Gods!
It is because the divine light is real, that the creation of an earthly paradise is at all possible. If it were not, then it would just be an illusion. The creation of an earthly paradise comes about when we are able to bring down the light of the higher realms into this realm, thus, literally creating heaven on earth. This is our ultimate purpose, and comes not from a denial of the creation of God, but through surrender of our own self, to the higher purpose of the great mystery, and by becoming a channel of the Divine will on this earth.
This is why Jesus said "I am the light of the world". He was speaking quite literally.
Christi
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2008 : 10:46:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
It is because the divine light is real, that the creation of an earthly paradise is at all possible. If it were not, then it would just be an illusion. The creation of an earthly paradise comes about when we are able to bring down the light of the higher realms into this realm, thus, literally creating heaven on earth. This is our ultimate purpose, and comes not from a denial of the creation of God, but through surrender of our own self, to the higher purpose of the great mystery, and by becoming a channel of the Divine will on this earth.
Yeah, Christi I have a wee bit of meditation experience; forgive me if I implied it was a tremendous lifetime of meditation experience for thirty years beginning when I was five years old, guided by a 100 year old yogi.
I see the seed the white light and the rainbow as interdependent emanations of emptiness and impermanent. What is not impermanent is emptiness, the storehouse of possibility. The divine light as you call it is the result of this storehouse. An earthly paradise is possible because of emptiness, the storehouse of possibility. Higher and lower realms are all emanation bodies; and therefore impermanent. Heaven on Earth will come about not because we "bring down the light" which is already here, but when we operate based on faith and/or realization that all things are possible now. Whether we realize the great mystery first hand, or simply have faith in a mysterious source of possibility, either way it is, in fact, the impersonal storehouse of possibility which feeds the light, and gives the light divinity in the first place.
Do you really think you have to reach out and bring the light down here, Christi? It's here. An earthly paradise is here; we fail to see it as such. Our limited idea of self misleads us into thinking we are not whole. Nothing other than ignorance and misconceptions prevents us from tapping our full potential right this minute.
This is all an illusion, a dream. We are dreaming it; we want this and it is here by us and for us. We are no different than the seed or the light. We are channels of the divine; we are gods. As Jesus said, "Oh ye of little faith." You are filled with light, though your eye be not single.
A heavenly earth will result when we all see it as such and have achieved trust and faith in the god-power in each other. There is ultimately no distinction between God and us. In your meditation if you merge your consciousness into God, Brahma, Jesus, the Buddha, Isvara, Allah or Shiva-Kali, then you may realize that you are God's personality now. Then, there can be no separation; you are united. Whatever makes up that mind and that personality, the components are in you now.
Now that you are God and are filled with the divine light, from where do your powers of all-things-possible come from? I say that is a deep dark mystery indeed my Lord.
In the beginning was darkness and void, then a seed consciousness exploded into a rainbow emanation through multiple dimensions and universes. Why did we do this, Lord Christi?
Did we not divide the universes and worlds to delight in the joy of love among the diversity of us? Why an unnamed selfless void darkness would gather into consciousness awaking into us it indeed a deep mystery, Lord.
Though it is a mystery, one thing I do know is that the selfless void is the fountainhead of the potentiality of selfless love, which is the highest good in the land, and is the source of law by which we must live.
Jesus said, "Love God with all your heart, mind and strength." He also said, "Love your neighbor as you would be loved." He proclaimed these two laws are the highest laws, from which all other laws hang. Mysteriously, he also said, "Above all love each other." He also said, "You may have read you are gods." He most strongly stated, "Have faith and do not doubt... if you believe you will have anything you ask for in prayer."
Does love come from God, or us? Does God come from love? What is love? Love is a deep mystery too, but it is the result of selflessness, faith, humility, nurturing and care. As I peered into this mystery, I recognized selflessness is what it says. Without a sense of self or concern for self. This is not nihilism, it is the root of divinity and moral law of love.
Despite the purpose, source or covenant with God, if we fail to love selflessly here and now, no one will see this world for what it is. Whatever light or mystery or discussion proceeds, we must be selfless as the source of all creation. That's what we are; though, we fail to recognize it.
For we the mystic journeymen, let's ask "what's faith?" By what storehouse of magic does God have all-thing-possible available to him to answer all our prayers? From what well are all the possibilities gathered to feed our belief? How does God know he can grant any one of our trillions of prayers? I'm telling you it is a deep dark mystery. That is Great Magic!
Even the evil sorcerers can conjure cretins and demons to bugaboo the people. The selfless source of all possibility does not discriminate. Both the evil and the divine are possible but for darkness. The hidden reason is that this mystery is love, and love conquers and embraces all.
Don't channel the sweet divinity light at the expense of the salty dark sea. We have to be a little salty sweet if you know what I mean, Cristy? 
Respect and blessings,
Surrender |
Edited by - themysticseeker on Dec 01 2008 11:04:05 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2008 : 11:19:17 AM
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Hi TMS,
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Hmm. I'm afraid you are contradicting yourself. I do understand the "IAM" mantra has other uses. But Yogani states that it is to discover your "inner self." You can't lose yourself and find an "inner self" if the self was never there to begin with. Do you really think you are saying "I Am" and saying "I am not" at the same time? This "I AM" mantra is not found in the yogic texts. It is not sanskrit with an ambiguous meaning like "OM" or "OM AH HUNG." "I AM" is about your inner-self, your sense of "I"-ness, "AM"-being.
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond....I have been away for the weekend spending time in silence and with family.
The specifics of mantra creation and why Yogani chose the "i am" mantra has been hashed out numerous times here on the forum, and I don't think it serves anyone to rehash this out here. Suffice it to say, I disagree with you about the effectiveness of "I AM" even over mantras like "OM". This is just my personal experience, but it IS my personal experience, so.....
About the mantra being for the purposes of finding your inner self, that is pretty much correct. Semantics, but basically right. Our inner self is silent awareness/god/love.....This is THE ONLY SELF, and yes it does exist. What we are using the mantra for is "losing our seperated egoic selves" and finding our "inner silent awareness" which is God/Source/Love. Yes there is no individual Self, but noone said that, not Yogani, not me. The true Self is all there is and we are here seeking permanent union with that Self.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
At the same time you say you "lose yourself." What you say resembles the Sufi way, "lose yourself in the presence of God." Okay. This is stage one: disregarding your conventional self. When you no longer exist, do you sense that you are God and that God exists? You are nothing in the presence of God? No? What sense of self do you think God has? God's identity is pure Love which is selflessness.
So I tell you like the Sufi master. If you haven't lost yourself in the presence of God, and thereby lost all sense of self in the bewilderment and Oblivion of God, then your goal lies ahead.
For who among us here does the journey NOT lie ahead? Even Yogani has at least a small part of his "Self" left to lose I'm sure. This means the journey never ends. Even if you DO happen to make it to a point where you are in union 24/7 there is still work to be done. There will never be complete "Selflessness" as you say, until death. That is my opinion anyways. And yes, I agree, as I said before, God is Love. Simple. No Self, just unconditional Love and silent blissful awareness.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
As a reflection of God reflecting as God reflects, merged, what God is there to speak of?
God is Love. That is the God there is to speak of. I have never been talking about a "God and his Self", I have always been talking about "God the Unconditional Love". No Self there.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Then you may be ready to join us as we journey into the new Earth, without possessions, without even a self to speak of. We will reflect perfection on this paradise.
Who is there to join? And in order for the "manifest" to reflect perfection there must be an ego or at least SOME semblance of Self there in order to STAY manifest. I think you are contradicting yourself here.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Until the separation ends, we will not have one heart. We won't be able to preserve ourselves on this land.
There is no seperation. Seperation is an illusion, and we all already have one heart. It is just a matter of waking up to this, and that is what "i am" is for.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
The import is subtle but powerful. To accomplish enlightenment you must cling to nothing whatsoever. All clinging is of self-nature, illusory, leading to discontent, disillusionment in your practice and ultimately sorrow and anger. This is to be avoided now; I don't want you to lose ground and alienate yourself from the path. You might otherwise disseminate a message that leads to gross ceremony and worship. It is for this reason why the Buddha challenged the Brahmins and yogis of his day. Without the correct initial view, enlightenment is a false hope.
Yes I agree that attachments must be dropped for enlightenment to occur. But HOW do you suggest dropping said attachments? What are the PRACTICES you recommend using if you think AYP is non-beneficial? I personally can't just "wake up" to the fact that I am one with God. I wish it was that easy, but it just doesn't seem to be happening. So I will continue to do my practices because this is what is helping me to drop my attachments and get closer to a full union with God. HOW do you suggest that I stop clinging to the attachment I have to the fact that my wife is alive. If she were to die today, I would suffer. Needlessly I understand, but I would suffer none the less for a least a little while. How do I just "stop" clinging to the fact that I love my wife and I want her to be alive and manifest with me right now without some sort of active practice in letting go? Something like samyama maybe? It doesn't just happen by itself. At least that is not MY experience.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Your destination is beyond consciousness, here, now, swimming in the deep mystery of all possibility. This present instant emit GREAT POWER CREATOR OF CREATORS! Isn't that love? I don't debate to prove myself correct. I only want you to reach your goal.
That is very noble of you to want me to reach my goal, but nothing you say or do will change anything for me. I am in charge of my own destination, as is everyone else on Earth. And I am on the path to reach my goal of union with God and realize that it is a destination beyond conciousness. The destination is Love. And I'm not sure what you think you are debating, but again I don't think anything you have said has really contradicted me in any way, so I don't really see ANY debate, so no worries.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
I write for the enlightenment of all the world; I wish to live among the lovers in togetherness with no hint of separateness. We can break free of the cycles of destruction caused by time, only if we achieve harmony with the timeless source of the Cosmos. We will have been harmonized with the source of all things if we lose our identities, all identities to become as HE, selfless.
The words "living" and "with no hint of seperateness" do not belong in the same sentence. You can not LIVE with no hint of seperateness. That hint of seperateness is what keeps us alive! Yes, we only break free from the cycles of birth and death by achieving union with God/Love, but again, HOW do suggest this happens if not by some set of practices? If it just happened wouldn't we already all be enlightened and realize it?
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
Wasn't it Carson who corrected me, that I don't understand what "I AM" means and misunderstand Yogani's teachings? Can you address me without challenging me?
TMS, at first all I said was "God is Love", because that is what you were trying to say in your original post, but which was incredibly long (like THIS post, haha) and I thought it could have been summed up in those three little words. I wasn't trying to correct you, just restate what you said in shorter terms. In my second post I corrected you because you DO have a misunderstanding about the AYP teachings. Still. I wasn't trying to challenge you, just merely point out that you misunderstand the idea (or lack of idea) behind the "i am" mantra. I don't think I did either until a few days ago after finishing reading "The Secrets Of Wilder". I AM doesn't have any "I"ness in it. It doesn't have ANY meaning whatsoever. It is merely a VIBRATION. This is what you don't understand. It is an intention, something else to be "dropped" or to be "lost". It is merely a vibrational tool to help the mind lose it's seperation from God. The mind is constantly finding thoughts to attach itself to, and the purpose of the "i am" mantra is to 1. purify the nervous system via vibration, and 2. be refined into something non-existant. To be lost along with all thoughts so that the soul can be absorbed into the silent awareness that is God/Love. I hope you can understand this now and not keep projecting definitions onto the words that were not intented.
quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
What I'm interested in is why Carson responded to my post with "God is Love." I thought that was strange but poignant. My real meaning to begin with. Carson is my spiritual brother and he understands me well in his heart. Carson, why don't we re-agree, brother?
As I said above, my point in saying God is Love was just to point out that this is what you seemed to be trying to say in many many words. Much easier to keep things simple and as uncomplicated as possible. That's why AYP is so great. It cut all the fat off of the Yoga systems that didn't need to be there. An efficient, direct and simple set of practices designed to help the mind lose attachments and learn to seek that which is True....Union with God.
Love,
Carson
P.S. I re-agree that God is Love. Never disagreed.
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Edited by - CarsonZi on Dec 01 2008 11:40:53 AM |
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