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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 7:03:27 PM
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I just thought I would toss this out there for all you seekers. You can stop seeking. There's no "Self," no inner divinity to seek. Seeking is grasping, Self is that to which we cling. Clinging is the symptom; Self is the disease. There's no "I Am" to meditate about. If you are serious about Great Peace, then cling to nothing whatsoever; be mindful of the body and its connections, but relax into bliss, then release the final concept. What comes next is nirvana.
A lot of time is wasted in pursuit of "I AM"; it is a fiction, let it go, and your practice will accelerate. |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 8:10:53 PM
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Yes, let go and your practice will accelerate. Practice and you will let go anyway. The two work together to produce something great.
No time is wasted though. Who wastes, or does not waste? And what?
Better to just practice and only have some advaita dessert afterwards  |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 9:41:15 PM
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Conversely, the intimate experience of being, that sense of Self that words can only point to, is in everything. We are all one.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2008 : 05:08:43 AM
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Hi themysticseeker
Thanks for sharing 
Your post made me curious...........as to what your experience of divinity is? If divinity is not right here - within this very moment - .......then where is it in your experience? Is it at all?
And if it is - what would you say are its qualities (if any at all)?
Are you yourself a seeker?
quote:
Self is that to which we cling. Clinging is the symptom; Self is the disease
You mean there are two of us?
Who exactly is clinging (who is actually ill)?
How is the symptom different from the disease?
In my experience the very symptom is always itself the way the divine intelligence expresses its own inherent potential for "coming home to itself". The symptom this way always has in itself a relative balance. Much like the fever eliminates the viral or bacterial invasion and actually both preserves life this way and at the same time develops greater adaption towards future stress. The fever may be taken to be a disease, but can also be viewed as a great reminder that things are never what they seem to be. What looks like a "disease" is actually an evolving. And we are all unique in this way.
In my experience, AYP allows for this tremendous diversity while at the same time offers effective tools for transcending it.
The journey itself is unique for every one of us. There are as such as many ways of "coming home to oneself as Great Peace" as there are individuals.
This is not a small thing - it is a miracle in itself.
A miracle to be enjoyed.
Also, I am curious - do you have a risen Kundalini?
If you do - did the arising of it make any difference in your own process?
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2008 : 09:12:06 AM
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quote:
The symptom this way always has in itself a relative balance.
I see it this way too. The symptom attracts to it the very circumstances to right the imbalance. The symptom creates pain through the futility of the efforts which sustain it. That pain points to the solution, the way back to balance, the way home. Pain the great purifier. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2008 : 10:19:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
. . . There's no "I Am" to meditate about. If you are serious about Great Peace, then cling to nothing whatsoever;
A lot of time is wasted in pursuit of "I AM"; it is a fiction, let it go, and your practice will accelerate.
Your words seem correct, but show perhaps a basic misunderstanding of AYP practices.
AYP practices do not ask us to meditate about "I Am", or cling to-, or pursue it.
You will read in the lessons that the "I Am" is a specific sound tailored to produce effects within the nervous system, and is not to be thought of as words with meaning.
Meditating as taught here is not concentrating on a concept, and you are right in identifying that as some kind of clinging.
There are other paths where this is done, and different benefits from doing this including loss of self, but that is not the path taught here. |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2008 : 1:21:55 PM
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It is amusing how now and then some advaita forum member comes along and says that practice is nonsense. "quit seeking, quit practicing, be still" they say. It is quite an interesting phenomenon
I appreciate the reminder most of the time but after a while gets a bit repetitive. We all know we are one and there is nothing to seek. Paradoxically there seems to be available great pratices to find out this for ourselves! I wish they would be able to recognise this (some do, except the very hardcore ones it seems).
quote:
Better to just practice and only have some advaita dessert afterwards
That was funny tadeas! Yes, I, for one, enjoy practicing and the journey that that entitles me to. Life is a journey anyway. From home to home I guess. So better Enjoy! (actually an advaita adept once said something that was quite relieving to me - no matter what just enjoy every moment of your life!) |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 7:26:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
It is amusing how now and then some advaita forum member comes along and says that practice is nonsense. "quit seeking, quit practicing, be still" they say. It is quite an interesting phenomenon
I appreciate the reminder most of the time but after a while gets a bit repetitive. We all know we are one and there is nothing to seek. Paradoxically there seems to be available great pratices to find out this for ourselves! I wish they would be able to recognise this (some do, except the very hardcore ones it seems).
quote:
Better to just practice and only have some advaita dessert afterwards
That was funny tadeas! Yes, I, for one, enjoy practicing and the journey that that entitles me to. Life is a journey anyway. From home to home I guess. So better Enjoy! (actually an advaita adept once said something that was quite relieving to me - no matter what just enjoy every moment of your life!)
I'm saying practice with a different view of not seeking, but releasing the object of seeking. I'm not an advaita. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 8:03:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Hi themysticseeker
Thanks for sharing
Your post made me curious...........as to what your experience of divinity is? If divinity is not right here - within this very moment - .......then where is it in your experience? Is it at all?
And if it is - what would you say are its qualities (if any at all)?
Are you yourself a seeker?
quote:
Self is that to which we cling. Clinging is the symptom; Self is the disease
You mean there are two of us?
Who exactly is clinging (who is actually ill)?
How is the symptom different from the disease?
In my experience the very symptom is always itself the way the divine intelligence expresses its own inherent potential for "coming home to itself". The symptom this way always has in itself a relative balance. Much like the fever eliminates the viral or bacterial invasion and actually both preserves life this way and at the same time develops greater adaption towards future stress. The fever may be taken to be a disease, but can also be viewed as a great reminder that things are never what they seem to be. What looks like a "disease" is actually an evolving. And we are all unique in this way.
In my experience, AYP allows for this tremendous diversity while at the same time offers effective tools for transcending it.
The journey itself is unique for every one of us. There are as such as many ways of "coming home to oneself as Great Peace" as there are individuals.
This is not a small thing - it is a miracle in itself.
A miracle to be enjoyed.
Also, I am curious - do you have a risen Kundalini?
If you do - did the arising of it make any difference in your own process?
I've had every experience you seek. Yogani describes kundalini as the sex energy. It is. I'm afraid this is not the correct starting point. The sex urge is the will to be born flowing through us; this leads to clinging. The breath urge at the heart-center, in my experience, leads to realizing the interconnections and interdependence of all things, and to selflessness which is equivalent to peace, love and righteousness.
Divinity: Great Deep Dark Mystery.
Who is clinging? The mind concocted self.
The symptom is a self, the disease is clinging.
Kundalini rose for me pretty young. My grandfather started me on the path at age five. The God-like power must be counterbalanced at the anahata chakra, with deep penetration into the meaning of love, kindness, compassion and ultimately selflessness. Once penetrated, deep experience of selflessness leads to the extinction of a self, which leads to an unbelievable relief, the relief from a great misunderstanding. I wish I could express better how awful the self-sense is. I see the self and all matters connected with self to be worse than disease, demonic magic.
I see no distinction between God, Cosmic Mind, Cosmos or us. I realize that since "we are one," as one, we emanate from a deep dark mystery which is not one. Ultimately, we are selfless. In fact we are not one, we are interconnected through the projections of the rainbow body, the five colors. Behind the five colors in the deep dark mystery there is none. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2008 : 9:39:18 PM
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Hey, TMS, maybe is you explain your personal account of how you experienced this dark mystery then we will be able to better understand your perspective.
Take care:
VIL |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 01:11:31 AM
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Something smells wrong.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 09:31:20 AM
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Hi themysticseeker
Thanks for responding.
quote:
I wish I could express better how awful the self-sense is. I see the self and all matters connected with self to be worse than disease, demonic magic.
I see.
Yes....the self-sense......the "I am this body-mind"..."the person"....once freed of this illusion....there is indeed great relief. It is such a misunderstanding! Yet - that is all it is, though. It is - and has always been - an illusion. However, I never - not once - experienced any "demonicness" or "evilness" in the center of this. On the contrary. Everything is sacred. "All matters connected with self" are in my experience of the same divinity. Nothing needs to be shunned. On the contrary - awareness is all. Let whatever is not true expose itself naturally.
Pure consciousness itself....the spark of beingness (what you call the urge to be).....it is like a ..."lense" in my experience.....or a point.....a kind of touching point.....between the manifest and the unmanifest. When resting as just the fact of being here.....staying aware as the presence that is always here (it is before the body-mind identity)......it is possible to "view" this "lense" both ways. One way displays the whole world....including other realms. The other way is the resting within the dark mystery.
I know nothing of this mystery. It is completely wordless. I cannot fathom it at all. There is only a bowing down to it. And there is immense peace in this resting......head lower than the heart. Immense peace in not having to know.
I see no disease anywhere.
Only a lot of suffering because of the misconception.
It is not "loathing of self" that will bring about relief from suffering in my experience. There is enough loathing in this world as it is.
quote:
Kundalini rose for me pretty young. My grandfather started me on the path at age five. The God-like power must be counterbalanced at the anahata chakra, with deep penetration into the meaning of love, kindness, compassion and ultimately selflessness. Once penetrated, deep experience of selflessness leads to the extinction of a self, which leads to an unbelievable relief, the relief from a great misunderstanding.
This is the result of the "marriage" of ecstatic conductivity (Kundalini) and Silence (Shakti and Shiva). I see no difference between your experience and what I experience.
This is the goal of AYP practise too. Noone here covets Kundalini for its own sake. Noone here says it is "the starting point". On the contrary. First comes inner silence.
However - the sex energy is sacred. If shunned - if supressed - it finds other unhealthy outlets. To be able to transcend "the urge to be"....this also must be exposed to awareness. It must be allowed to be in order to be transcended.
quote:
I'm saying practice with a different view of not seeking, but releasing the object of seeking. I'm not an advaita.
The perspective....the stopping of the seeking..... will come about as a result of "being touched" by awareness. Not because of a "forced" view....a mental decision prior to practise. This decision itself is only a contraction. It hinders the very result you wish for: the releasing of the object of seeking.
Yes - to be still is all it takes.
Yet in order to see this - practise is very helpful. After all - 20 min twice a day is not much. Yet - it makes such a difference to so many!
quote:
Divinity: Great Deep Dark Mystery.
Amen
quote:
Who is clinging? The mind concocted self.
In my experience it is the beingness itself that gets enmeshed with its own creation. I never found the "mind concocted self". In my experience there never was such an entity. And it is this that brought the liberation from all of it. The great relief. The laughter  . This realization can and will continue to deepen....there is always unawareness somewhere.....there is enmeshments with thoughts and feelings.....but since the seeing of the "non-existence" of the little self.....it doesn't have any entity to stick itself to....so it dissolves much, much easier. And this dissolving cannot take place unless all is exposed as it is. Not as it should be. As it - in fact - is.
I don't know about you....but in my experience...... stern talks....harsh judging....no matter how well ment.....never instilled the trust needed for this exposing.
Only love did.
Of the selfless kind you speak of. In action. (Including words directed at another)
It is all within. Yet the resonance with people and scriptures that embody it ....entrainment can happen easier this way. If people speak of it....yet do not embody it, the resonance simply does not happen in my experience. The AYP practise emphasizes the inner guru. In my experience this is a blessing. Since ultimately it is never about what others tell me, or what others are. It is all about the very mystery that I myself am.
It is this that is always the potential of beingness in this body. The possibility of self-less love in action.
Whether we call it Self, or no-self, or God, or Great Mystery, or emptiness or fullness...is of lesser importance.
quote:
The symptom is a self, the disease is clinging.
These are not two in my experience.
The symptom is itself the clinging.
In my experience it is the beingness that gets enmeshed with its creations. Still - the beingness is never "a disease". It is pure in itself.
There is simply lack of ease because of the enmeshment.
All is still well from the standpoint of awareness.
quote:
I see no distinction between God, Cosmic Mind, Cosmos or us. I realize that since "we are one," as one, we emanate from a deep dark mystery which is not one. Ultimately, we are selfless. In fact we are not one, we are interconnected through the projections of the rainbow body, the five colors. Behind the five colors in the deep dark mystery there is none.
That is beautiful.
Thank you
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 11:45:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by VIL
Hey, TMS, maybe is you explain your personal account of how you experienced this dark mystery then we will be able to better understand your perspective.
Take care:
VIL
I do that over here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=2. |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 1:12:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Hi themysticseeker
Thanks for responding.
quote:
I wish I could express better how awful the self-sense is. I see the self and all matters connected with self to be worse than disease, demonic magic.
I see.
Yes....the self-sense......the "I am this body-mind"..."the person"....once freed of this illusion....there is indeed great relief. It is such a misunderstanding! Yet - that is all it is, though. It is - and has always been - an illusion. However, I never - not once - experienced any "demonicness" or "evilness" in the center of this. On the contrary. Everything is sacred. "All matters connected with self" are in my experience of the same divinity. Nothing needs to be shunned. On the contrary - awareness is all. Let whatever is not true expose itself naturally.
I say this merely for illustrative purposes. For most people, self is as good as a demon, an inner fear, loathing and anger that leads to all our world problems. It is because of the self why people hold on tight to views, and then attack others for having different ones. But I digress.
I'm talking to advanced meditators, yogis, yoginis, sannyasis. That water tastes better when there's nothing inside it. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 9:59:06 PM
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Themysticseeker wrote:
"It is because of the self why people hold on tight to views, and then attack others for having different ones."
Then who would be arguing if one of those people was clinging to the view that there is no self?
and how can a selfless person think they are an advanced meditator etc? |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 4:57:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Themysticseeker wrote:
"It is because of the self why people hold on tight to views, and then attack others for having different ones."
Then who would be arguing if one of those people was clinging to the view that there is no self?
and how can a selfless person think they are an advanced meditator etc?
I have no idea. I don't think it was me talking. I'm nobody. Sorry I bothered you.
Respect and blessings,
Surrender |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 6:21:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Themysticseeker wrote:
"It is because of the self why people hold on tight to views, and then attack others for having different ones."
Then who would be arguing if one of those people was clinging to the view that there is no self?
and how can a selfless person think they are an advanced meditator etc?
You pay attention, man! I AM the great yogi master, the Shiv, the tiger skin, the mystery seeker on the left-hand tantric path of experience and madness. You question me. Don't question me again! You don't know who I am. Recognize the power of knowledge if you crave emancipation slave! You will know me when you have done as I that I have plumbed the underworld descending into hell and having foiled the demonic ghosts hunting me and having eaten the spoiled and wallowed in festering pits and lanced my festering boils screaming blood curdling torment "I FEAR NOTHING" and skirmished with curmudgeons debating illuminated grand masters with skeleton friends in the commission of every sin embracing dying men smelling the breath of homeless and toothless sodomites breathing smoke, drinking water pouring from swollen abdomens I dwelled and fed among the piles of sh*t and the stench of piss and the caved in craniums and the quivering brains. I craved death and championed battles against Jagganath, had my legs twisted off, sorcering women as men and men as women offering virgins to darkness and stapled my stomach to my shins. I have the experience; I mastered SCREAMING in the blood rituals choked out by blood sucking life swallowing witches! I live in the killing fields and stare down cold killers to avoid being eaten in hell called beasts. I am the survivor! I swallowed poisons and vomited guts to taste the fruits of annihilation, I know who I am! Though I had no skin
And no teacher... in the desolation of myself I cupped a drop of water with my bones and tasted life once again. I discerned forgiveness, love and mercy. Would it be for me? I made a wish, with all my heart body and soul "I wish to know." As I thought with God's thoughts the complexities of multidimensional articulations of thought streams supporting the infinite universes connected by an energetic sea of pure will comprising intricate self-similar geometrical interconnections of sonic waves generating light and all perceptible qualities my mind bewildered obliterated and fried my identity as I lost track of who or when I was where I got lost I flowed into everything.
"WHO AM I?" Whatever contents "who I am" remained were ripped apart exposing the seed, a liquid glass reflection of events of past present and future connected to all other glass seeds reflecting all other glass seeds in an infinite web spanning an infinite number of universes and dimensions, and seeing trillions of memories feelings futures and experiences I felt as I would explode, and if I would explode then I would cease to be and if I would cease to be then what would I be and became so afraid so so afraid that I would never be again and become lost a lost reflection on a lost seed that barely matters; what would it matter anyway, if I just evaporated now...?
"NO MORE! HAVE MERCY. FORGIVE ME." I left the worlds as the heart of God and felt the torture and anguish of the LORD as He feels as we feel the ignorance and hate the pain and endless suffering of ourselves upon whom we mete the harshest tortures. After all this is all for us, for our freedom and enjoyment the fantasy of a God! What have I done?! Out of great mercy our Lord this God after much dedication to the suffering fools will put an end to time and to HIMSELF for without HE there be not WE. If we don't accept our path, the path will come to a sudden end. If He comes to an end, those who attain peace will survive the end. Peace is all that all is.
Without peace there is no path. Now I walk the path of peace. Please forgive me for this trifle confession. Who am I to speak of suffering?
WE ARE THE COSMOS!
AHHH HAAA!
The Mystery Seeker |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 6:27:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by themysticseeker
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Themysticseeker wrote:
"It is because of the self why people hold on tight to views, and then attack others for having different ones."
Then who would be arguing if one of those people was clinging to the view that there is no self?
and how can a selfless person think they are an advanced meditator etc?
You pay attention, man! I AM the great yogi master, the Shiv, the tiger skin, the mystery seeker on the left-hand tantric path of experience and madness. You question me. Don't question me again! You don't know who I am. Recognize the power of knowledge if you crave emancipation slave! You will know me when you have done as I that I have plumbed the underworld descending into hell and having foiled the demonic ghosts hunting me and having eaten the spoiled and wallowed in festering pits and lanced my festering boils screaming blood curdling torment "I FEAR NOTHING" and skirmished with curmudgeons debating illuminated grand masters with skeleton friends in the commission of every sin embracing dying men smelling the breath of homeless and toothless sodomites breathing smoke, drinking water pouring from swollen abdomens I dwelled and fed among the piles of sh*t and the stench of piss and the caved in craniums and the quivering brains. I craved death and championed battles against Jagganath, had my legs twisted off, sorcering women as men and men as women offering virgins to darkness and stapled my stomach to my shins. I have the experience; I mastered SCREAMING in the blood rituals choked out by blood sucking life swallowing witches! I live in the killing fields and stare down cold killers to avoid being eaten in hell called beasts. I am the survivor! I swallowed poisons and vomited guts to taste the fruits of annihilation, I know who I am! Though I had no skin
And no teacher... in the desolation of myself I cupped a drop of water with my bones and tasted life once again. I discerned forgiveness, love and mercy. Would it be for me? I made a wish, with all my heart body and soul "I wish to know." As I thought with God's thoughts the complexities of multidimensional articulations of thought streams supporting the infinite universes connected by an energetic sea of pure will comprising intricate self-similar geometrical interconnections of sonic waves generating light and all perceptible qualities my mind bewildered obliterated and fried my identity as I lost track of who or when I was where I got lost I flowed into everything.
"WHO AM I?" Whatever contents "who I am" remained were ripped apart exposing the seed, a liquid glass reflection of events of past present and future connected to all other glass seeds reflecting all other glass seeds in an infinite web spanning an infinite number of universes and dimensions, and seeing trillions of memories feelings futures and experiences I felt as I would explode, and if I would explode then I would cease to be and if I would cease to be then what would I be and became so afraid so so afraid that I would never be again and become lost a lost reflection on a lost seed that barely matters; what would it matter anyway, if I just evaporated now...?
"NO MORE! HAVE MERCY. FORGIVE ME." I left the worlds as the heart of God and felt the torture and anguish of the LORD as He feels as we feel the ignorance and hate the pain and endless suffering of ourselves upon whom we mete the harshest tortures. After all this is all for us, for our freedom and enjoyment the fantasy of a God! What have I done?! Out of great mercy our Lord this God after much dedication to the suffering fools will put an end to time and to HIMSELF for without HE there be not WE. If we don't accept our path, the path will come to a sudden end. If He comes to an end, those who attain peace will survive the end. Peace is all that all is.
Without peace there is no path. Now I walk the path of peace. Please forgive me for this trifle confession. Who am I to speak of suffering?
WE ARE THE COSMOS!
AHHH HAAA!
The Mystery Seeker
Put a cork in it crazy boy!
OM SHANTI SHANTI SHAN TI HEE...
Namaskar,
Surrender |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 8:31:44 PM
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TMS...Lots of words...but I'm not feeling the LOVE...
AYAM vibrates LOVE!
Most posters HERE vibrate LOVE ... show me the LOVE!
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Edited by - machart on Nov 30 2008 9:47:45 PM |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2008 : 12:29:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by machart
TMS...Lots of words...but I'm not feeling the LOVE...
AYAM vibrates LOVE!
Most posters HERE vibrate LOVE ... show me the LOVE!
Thank you, machart. Yes, indeed. Try here http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4817. And here. http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=2
Let me share a nice mantra for you "NOW LOVE"
You may also enjoy "OM AH SIRI SHANTI OM SVAHA." Most of the tantric practice is "OM AH HUNG." My fav: "Ahh..." with the slow breath in a whisper.
Adios.
Surrender |
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There is no Self
