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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 1:32:19 PM
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Namaste Friends,
I'm wondering about the possibility of "using up" all one's "peak experiences".
Having a long history of drug use, in this case specifically entheogens and a few miscellaneous hallucinogens(Ketamine mostly), I have had many many so called "peak experiences". In particular I used to use very large doses of Ketamine every night as I went to bed for over a year, and then a couple times a week for many years after. Each time I used this particular drug I experienced what is defined as a peak experience. Full ego dissolution, complete unity with the Source, access to all kinds of unknowable information etc etc. Now I am wondering if there is a possibility that I will never again be able to experience such a profound peak experience without drugs because I have been there so many times with external help, that getting there without external help is impossible. Any thoughts on this?
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Nov 25 2008 3:54:30 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 3:30:30 PM
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Carson,
I'm sure it wont be the last time you've experienced it! I'm just using some logics here:
If you are THAT/Source (which we all are) - and experiencing Source was your definition of your "peak experience" ("Each time I used this particular drug I experienced what is defined as a peak experience. Full ego dissolution, complete unity with the Source") then... how can you ever NOT be what you ARE, a constant peak experience? It's not the person peeking into the peak experience, the Source... it's the other way around! Source is peeking out in existence through the body-mind, using it as it's vehicle in the mysterious land of experience.
I think Katrine expressed it so nicely once in a post:
"The peak experience is always here. It's YOU who come and go."
To be less advaita: It's easy to get hooked on experiences, but as we say in AYP: Enjoy the scenery and let it go. Everything changes. Experiences will come and go, no use getting attached to them, no matter how wonderful they are. The stillness is the stable screen on which it all happens, and that we cultivate twice daily.  |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 3:54:06 PM
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Hi emc,
Thanks for the input. I understand the ideas and theories behind what you are saying, but my question I think was more along the lines of physically not spiritually. Is there a possibility that I have damaged the part of my brain that makes it possible to access the Source directly by doing it so often through the use of Ketamine etc? I realize that there probably is noone on the forum truly qualified to answer this, but I am open to any and all opinions even if they are just educated guesses. Thanks for your opinions too!
Love,
Carson |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 4:47:56 PM
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Carson, I understand your thinking. I think this is a common thought among those who were brought to the path by entheogens one way or another. My peak experiences were on LSD and I was able to peak everytime I used marijuana in conjunction with yoga. It wasn't until I stopped using drugs that the memories of the peak experiences faded enough that they don't affect my thoughts in the present.
Of course I don't believe one can "use up" one's supply of peak experience. That takes a somewhat non-yogic viewpoint...that in yoga you are "seeking" to accomplish something - a peak experience. It is the detachment from that wanting that is the essence of inner silence to me.
As for damage to the brain or energy body, I have wondered this also. In my experience I have had trips on mushrooms and Salvia that left "scars" on my psychologically and spiritualy so that my spiritual progress is sometimes halted because of these wounds. By essentially tossing myself into the void headfirst before I was ready I now have a fear of it and can have flashbacks to my bad trips sometimes when a lot of purification occurs or a meditation is particularly deep. In a more concrete sense I wonder if I have tweaked or ruined my energy body. I have read that this occurs...but then I believe that there is nothing that can cut you off from this Truth - certainly no plant or chemical. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 01:16:56 AM
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The researcher who had a stroke and found her peak experience through that proves to me that God is not in the brain. It's beyond brain. You probably have a greater chance to experience God with more brain damages, so that the egoic control system is out of order. 
I also met a man at the central station who had been in a severe car accident and had almost no brain functions left... he was as enlightened as one can be!
In deep sleep the brain is totally wiped out (if measuring brain waves) and that's when we are One with Source... so... I'd say, no worries!
But that's only my unprofessional guess! |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 11:17:56 AM
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Hi Anthony,
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
Of course I don't believe one can "use up" one's supply of peak experience. That takes a somewhat non-yogic viewpoint...that in yoga you are "seeking" to accomplish something - a peak experience. It is the detachment from that wanting that is the essence of inner silence to me.
Yeah I kinda used a poor choice of words when I started this thread. I was mostly just wondering if there is a section of the brain that can be damaged and would make it so that the human spiritual experience of "unity" cannot be attained.
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
As for damage to the brain or energy body, I have wondered this also. In my experience I have had trips on mushrooms and Salvia that left "scars" on my psychologically and spiritualy so that my spiritual progress is sometimes halted because of these wounds.
Other then having a fear of the void/flashbacks of bad trips, how do you know that you have "scars" on your energy body? Are there lots of ways to aquire these scars?
quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
I have read that this occurs...but then I believe that there is nothing that can cut you off from this Truth - certainly no plant or chemical.
I hope you are right about nothing being able to cut a human off from the Truth. Not even brain damage.
Hi emc,
quote:
Originally posted by emc
The researcher who had a stroke and found her peak experience through that proves to me that God is not in the brain. It's beyond brain. You probably have a greater chance to experience God with more brain damages, so that the egoic control system is out of order.
I have watched the video of the lady you are talking about giving a talk on her experience, and I almost see her experience more as evidence that brain damage COULD cut me off from the Source rather then the other way around. In her case, her stroke shut down the entire right side of her brain so she was only using the left side. (I believe this was the right orientation for her stroke, but it could have been vice versa I'm not 100% sure) What if there was permanent damage to a different section of the brain? What if the centre in the left side of the brain that she was using during her stroke experience, is the exact same section I have damaged with excessive abuse of Ketamine? Her experience was caused by a certain section of her brain that is normally active(right side of brain), being shut off, and so the section she DIDN'T normally use (left side) had to take over, and hence her experience. What if the section of the brain that was compensating in this specific researchers case, is the section I have damaged? What if I had the same stroke as this lady researcher and my left side of the brain kicked in? Would I still experience the same unifying connection to the Source that she felt, or is there a possibility that I would not, because that section of my brain does not work anymore? Excessive Ketamine use has been shown to cause what is known in the medical community as "Olney's Lesions" in the brain. These are basically holes in certain sections of the brain where the Ketamine can build up. These lesions are caused by all known "dissociative anaestetics" that are commonly used as recreational drugs...PCP(causes them quickly and easily), Dextromethorphanhydrobromide or DXM(this is the active ingredient in cough syrup and is why people drink Robotussin to get high, this causes Olney's lesions as well, but slower then PCP), and Ketamine(which is the least destructive on the brain and body, which is why K is still used for surgery on children and animals, but constant and/or excessive use can still cause and will cause Olney's lesions). I do not think there have been studies done on which sections of the brain these Olney's lesions usually show up in on a Ketamine user, but I would be very interested to know if anyone has heard of such research.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
I also met a man at the central station who had been in a severe car accident and had almost no brain functions left... he was as enlightened as one can be!
This is encouraging. Thank you for sharing this.
quote:
Originally posted by emc
In deep sleep the brain is totally wiped out (if measuring brain waves) and that's when we are One with Source... so... I'd say, no worries!
I dunno.....I haven't had a deep sleep without drugs in over ten years. I probably haven't even had a deep sleep WITH drugs in a couple of years. haha. So maybe that would be evidence of brain damage to the area of the brain under discussion? Hmmmmm....
Love,
Carson
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Edited by - CarsonZi on Nov 26 2008 11:57:37 AM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 4:50:00 PM
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quote:
Other then having a fear of the void/flashbacks of bad trips, how do you know that you have "scars" on your energy body? Are there lots of ways to aquire these scars?
My use of the word scars is metaphorical. I am not a very energetically attuned person so I cannot say whether these "scars" would be evident to someone who can see the energy body like Barbara Ann Brennan. In her book Hands of Light she speaks of "mucous" that can build up in the energy body as a result of using certain drugs. She seems to also imply that LSD and the like can cause observable negative changes in the aura. But then you have the countless experiential spiritually-positive drug experiences so I guess it depends on the person's personal stance on drugs because you can (as usual) find evidence to support both sides of the argument.
I use the word scars because the experiences they reflect were existentially traumatic and seem to have left a mark on my conciousness that does not seem very positive. On the other hand, they do keep my self-pacing in line :-) But I use the word scar to denote that they seem to be a part of my individual conciousness that is almost palpable...the very certain type of fear, dread, or whatever in the face of spiritual experience. For example, before I ever did Salvia and would have OBE/lucid experiences, although they were a bit intimidating, I could just go with it. Now, when they occur they feel like a Salvia trip (interestingly, Salvia is sometimes referred to as a "Oneirogen" or dream-drug) and this bad association keeps me from going further.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 5:26:33 PM
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Interesting....
I have always found that "bad trips" are always the most beneficial to me in the long run. Though they may not have any recreational value, and that was usually my intention in taking said drugs, I found that these bad trips usually identified for me the areas of my life that needed to be focussed on and changed. Not fun being shown all your shortcomings in great detail, but very beneficial.
Salvia, is an odd drug. I really have had a hard time finding any use for this drug. It is so drastic, so forceful and so unyeilding, that it is very difficult to do any worthwhile Self Inquiry while on it. Granted, there IS a spiritual being attached to the plant itself, usually refered to as the "Green Goddess", but I have found that it takes much time and effort to establish a working relationship with her, and that the negative aspects of tripping so often can take away from the beauty of having a relationship with this Goddess. This is just my experience though and I'm sure there are others out there that find Salvia of great use. Just not me
Love,
Carson |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 5:51:14 PM
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No offence, but I feel there's too many excuses lined up with drug use and spirituality. Too many walls put up between facing that... we all know it's just plain not useful to people's NATURAL development. I've been a recreational drug user myself, I understand the joys and pleasures associated with such drugs. It just seems so foolish to me to even think that any of it is spiritual though. Sure you get certain feelings that feel good, that feel "right". I've been told it's sorta like "negating" certain aspects of yourself, so that others seem more obvious, but even then, I can't believe for one second that it's useful towards the longterm development of an individual.
If it helped with your spiritual drive, striving towards something more, I guess... great, but seriously, to me it's about incorporating all aspects of your natural being. towards exploring what's natural within us. Sure... you could then argue, but certain drugs are natural, a gift from god... it just seems bogus excuses to me. They're fun but hardly spiritual.
Even salvia. I know what's meant by that feeling of "oneness". I can't even imagine for a sec putting that on the same level as natural samadhi though. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2008 : 8:32:41 PM
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Hi Divineis.....Until you try DMT, Ketamine, or ayahausca (all of these in the right dose, setting and with the right preperations of course) I'm sure you will feel this way. These are the ONLY drugs in my opinion that have any REAL spiritual value and have the ability to connect one with a "samadhi" experience. These ARE substances that can heal and can unify. Until you have experience with these substances I personally feel you are talking from a place you have no personal connection with. Talking from the mind. I took no offence to your post, please take none from mine.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Nov 27 2008 11:29:23 AM |
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Lacinato
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2008 : 01:20:22 AM
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| I have never enjoyed plants much recreationally (even coffee and alcohol--or sugar!-- are not interesting/enjoyable to me), but have gotten great help spiritually--so I think it depends on the person and their intent. It is not all the same, many plants are medicinal. |
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Peak Experiences
