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knowingunknown
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 12 2008 : 12:47:23 AM
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Blessings on your Journies, sweet seekers.
Thank you for allowing these words to be spoken, without speaker, without cause and without expectation.
The most lively chat groups, the most inspiring discussions, the most wonderful reads and the most moving thoughts will not take you Here.
The Only Way is to Let Go and Be Still.
Acceptance and Surrender. These are the Keys to the Open Door.
May all the world's fruitless chatter come to an End.
May Peace be Known.
Blessings from The Empty Space from which you came and into which you will, inevitably, return.
Pranams, Boundless Love and OM
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Edited by - AYPforum on Nov 16 2008 4:53:26 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 12 2008 : 02:37:55 AM
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Hi Knowingunknown
Welcome to the forum. 
I love your posts on advaita vedanta, do keep them coming!
Christi |
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knowingunknown
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 9:57:10 PM
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Ch: Hi Knowingunknown Welcome to the forum.
Thank you. Am just visiting for a time.
Ch: I love your posts on advaita vedanta, do keep them coming!
Will see what Life has in store. Not planning to stay long. Too much "mind" in this joint. Hahahahahaha!
Blessings. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 10:02:17 AM
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Knowingunknown said:
Ch: Hi Knowingunknown Welcome to the forum.
Thank you. Am just visiting for a time.
Ch: I love your posts on advaita vedanta, do keep them coming!
Will see what Life has in store. Not planning to stay long. Too much "mind" in this joint. Hahahahahaha!
Blessings.
I'm not surprised you're not going to stay long, knowingunknown. Every now and then an advaita preacher comes through. The posture is typically extremely assuming, as yours is, which doesn't work very well for anyone who stays in any community for any length of time.
Eventually, the posture gets questioned. There is in any community a human desire to get to know people and see if there is true knowledge of substance behind the form, or any new insights, or anything new to share. I am not at all convinced that you enjoy the state you project yourself as enjoying, or have earned the posture you are assuming relative to those to whom you speak. Because it is easy to make everyone else wrong, with semantic word-games, at every turn and every sentance, and to flick pithy advaita aphorisms at every opportunity. I could almost write a computer program that could perform this function. This can enamor beginners, or those who haven't seen Advaita-preaching before, but I see nothing convincing in it to warrant the posture.
Blessings on your path. I have enjoyed your poetry. If I were you I might focus on writing the poetry, which is perhaps where your teaching strength lies at this point. So, strength forward, as they say!
Lovingly,
-David
P.S. if you decide to stay, that's great too. But if you want to be helpful, maybe bring it down a notch or two, and try to take a more mutual approach.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Nov 14 2008 10:17:55 AM |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 10:26:50 AM
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I want to say something about community.
I am no tourist passing through. By now everyone is quite clear about my warts. I get the feeling others here write off most of my posts, yet are waiting for me to get my act together, and will give me chances and more specific helps as I do my 50%, showing some evidence of practice.
What does a tourist like Knowingunknown have to offer one like me? "Am just visiting for a time." Good luck on your travels! |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 10:58:30 AM
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Another thing, while I'm on this rant.
The bottom line first task here is PURIFICATION.
Those who stick around for any length of time have been unafraid to admit to dirty linen or let it show. They do not hide their warts or personalities or foibles like armadillos in a defensive crouch. Capacity for intimacy is enhanced over time; another definition of OPENING.
They show willingness to get down in the pit with everyone else, rather than maintain, or work egoically to maintain, an assumed posture of spiritual elevation, which is defensive and fraudulent as hell.
"One up, one down" doesn't cut it around here. Even people like Christi get cut down to size once in a while. David is spot on about the advisability of mutuality.
When an advaitic prophet arrives at a forum like this, what does he offer in terms of SERVICE? Is PURIFICATION AND OPENING any concern of his?
If I'm a bit slow to "catch on," will he abide with me until I do?
Hit and run is not loving.
newpov
= = = = = = = = =
PS added upon edit:
The topic that the OP chose for this thread is "Blessings." Here is a bit of spiritual writing that addresses his expressed interest:
"Blessed are those who will have washed their robes clean, so that they will have the right to feed on the tree of life and can come through the gates into the city." -- Revelation 22:14 |
Edited by - newpov on Nov 14 2008 11:19:45 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 11:54:03 AM
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Hi knowingunknown,
I am enjoying reading your Adviata postings, but am inclined to agree with David in that it has little use for most people on this forum. They are just words, and words that have been said thousands of times. From Nisargadatta Maharaj to Eckart Tolle, from Ramana Maharshi to Adyashanti and back again most of us understand that this is all a lot of talk, and mind chatter, especially on topics like Adviata. There really is NO reason to talk about this cause it gets us nowhere. Unless we are just about at the top of the mountain, the only thing WORTH talking about is the practices, cause those are the stepping stones up the mountain. For 99.9% of those here, we will not get anywhere just contemplating the fact that we are That. So we chat about practices. This is the point of the forum. We do get dragged off sometimes into seemingly endless arguements that will never be resolved, and I am just as guilty as any other here, but we are still on the journey, not at the end as you seem to indicate you are. If it was as easy as just Being in Silence, this site probably wouldn't exist because everyone here would just be too busy Being in Silence. But it isn't that easy. Most of us need to purify our nervous systems of samskaras and karmic blockages, and as this happens we get closer and closer to True Understanding of the truth of Adviata. But this is a process. 99.9% of people don't just "wake up" one moment and realized I am That. Wishful thinking in my opinion. But who am "I" anyways right? 
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Nov 14 2008 12:13:30 PM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 2:17:42 PM
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knowinunknown may not be here to speak to 99.9% of us, knowingunknown may have come for only one of us, the one who is ready. I can appreciate why some of us act threatened by the words, i can appreciate why some of us feel the need to defend ourselves. One of the things that supposedly will help in this path, maybe the most important thing or close to the most important thing, is non judgement. Jesus said "humility is the key to the kingdom of God" So I ask, is your responses to her ones of humility/nonjudgemnt?
The mind has defended its path? What if it is as simple as the words that are written, quoted. Some of you seem to act afraid of the words, but i cant blame you, they are scary to me to. Jewel said in one of her songs "I gather myself around my faith, cause lights the darkness most feared."
Jesus also said "there are those who see but do not see, there are those who hear but do not hear" are you trying to hear the words written by knowingunkown? so for 99.9% of us the words will not resonate or change our lives, in my opinion, the goal of everyone here should be to be the .1%
but these are just my words, who am i? am i naive enough to believe that maybe she came here just to speak with me? No. but I do have the faith to think that it is a possibility. Why? because of God all things are possible. Call me crazy if you want, i have been called that before, call me delusional, that before too. You can even attack my words, as i have attacked many of yours. I will get to the promise land because of one reason only, i believe.
just a brother
brother neil
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Edited by - brother neil on Nov 14 2008 2:29:19 PM |
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knowingunknown
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 2:48:20 PM
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Dear friends,
You mistake simple words and pointing of the obvious as attacks. Who is it that feels attacked? What is it that feels threatened? What is there to defend?
May this be made clear, this one is not seeking. The seeking has come to and End. The Pointings given come from sitting within This Radiance; from Pure Consciousness. This one stumbled upon a strange post that was generated by someone in this group while on the web and came to give some Clarity. Nothing more, nothing less.
Whether or not the Pointings shared are heard are not of any great concern. There is nothing lost. The Truth can not be escaped, you just choose to ignore It.
With all of this said, like fingerprints, no two paths are the same, but Ultimately lead to the One Destination. This one sees "no other" to save, no need to try and nothing to do, but just random attempts to share the Knowledge that can aide in those journies. If you choose to hear any of it is entirely up to you... it's called free will. But it would serve one better to give that up and leave it to God's will.
I look upon you all with Freedom and Content
What have you to offer me?
We are one and the Same
In the deep recesses of your being lies an Unimaginable Treasure
You will dis-cover Me Here
Blessings.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 3:55:12 PM
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Hi Brother Neil,
I'm pretty sure you didn't get the intention behind my posting above. My point was merely to point out that all this Adviata teaching has been said and heard a million times already. There is not much more to say about it other then "I am That". So talking about this is futile. It makes much more sense to talk about how to GET to a point of realizing "I am That" rather then to spend a lot of time just trying to sit there and wrap one's head around the fact that "I am That". For most of us, (I think) it is not possible to reach Self Realization by simply contemplating the Source. Or at least it is going to take a hell of a lot longer. And there really isn't much to say on this topic as I have said above. So why talk about it?
Hi knowingunknown,
I'm sorry you took what I said as me feeling as if I am being attacked by you, this was not my intention as I did not, and do not, feel this way in the least. Like you said, there is noone here to attack anyways. I hope my above post to Brother Neil makes it a littel more clear what I was trying to say in my earlier posting. I am not against these teachings, I understand in my mind that this is all true, but understanding it in the mind doesn't do anyone any good. I need to understand this via personal experience. And the only way to actually do that in my experience is through spiritual practices such as AYP. I have never spontaneously gone into samadhi or a state of complete union with God without either using entheogens or using meditation practices. Especially not just by thinking or understanding that "I am That". I appreciate that you are trying to pass on knowledge here, and that is honorable of you/God/Source, but at least for me personally, this has all been said and has helped me progress very little. I'm sure that there are some people on the forum that can benefit by more Advaita teachings, but I for one seem to have heard it all before. Sorry if this seems harsh, I am a bit short on time and probably not coming across as I wish I was. Please forgive me and take no offence. None was meant.
Love,
Carson |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 5:08:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi Brother Neil,
I'm pretty sure you didn't get the intention behind my posting above. My point was merely to point out that all this Adviata teaching has been said and heard a million times already. There is not much more to say about it other then "I am That". So talking about this is futile. It makes much more sense to talk about how to GET to a point of realizing "I am That" rather then to spend a lot of time just trying to sit there and wrap one's head around the fact that "I am That". For most of us, (I think) it is not possible to reach Self Realization by simply contemplating the Source. Or at least it is going to take a hell of a lot longer. And there really isn't much to say on this topic as I have said above. So why talk about it?
Love,
Carson
well maybe i did not get your intention and maybe you did not get mine. While your pretty sure, i am not so sure. It has been said a million times? I have never heard it until now so i am glad it has been said one more time. well the basis of it is "I am that", well the whole basis of this site is less then that for it is only "i am" and once that is understood the searching is over. so thankfully yogani and knowingunknow have used more words then that. so does one have to do all the practices or just one practice, or no practices, that is up the individual i believe. Knowingunkown has talked about how to get there in regards to my personal path, but i care not to delve deeper into some of that other then the question "what MUST one do to find God" for that to me is what matters, and only that. So i keep my heart and ears open in the hopes i will hear the voice of God, i hope you will do the same
with love
brother neil
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 5:30:15 PM
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I'm sorry for offending you with my assumptions Neil.
"what MUST one do to find God?" Spiritual practices.
And you're right. "does one have to do all the practices or just one practice, or no practices, that is up the individual i believe." To each their own. I wish you the best of luck.
Love,
Carson
"Seek nothing but to cease seeking" |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Nov 14 2008 5:53:06 PM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 6:18:30 PM
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Brother carson
you have not offended me in the least. I was engaging with you in conversation, points and counterpoints, duality. One day we may have a conversation beyond that brother.
see you there, if you get there first please extend a hand
love ya brother carson
brother neil
ps. dont tell anyone but i am still engaged in practices and once i find the peace within then they may transform into explorations of limitless possibilities
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Edited by - brother neil on Nov 14 2008 9:47:18 PM |
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knowingunknown
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 6:31:01 PM
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Lovely autumn afternoon dear Carson,
Carson: My point was merely to point out that all this Adviata teaching has been said and heard a million times already. There is not much more to say about it other then "I am That".
The problems lies in the assumption that the words are the Meaning. Dear Carson, the words aren't the Meaning, but are begging one to look beyond to where they Point. To say "I am That" amounts to a hill of dry beans. Viewing Pointings as a philosophy and thus trying to adopt a teaching as Truth is backwards. The Truth Is and the words spill forward in an attempt to Point the Way.
Carson: So talking about this is futile.
Right don't talk and don't sort it out with the mind. Rather, Look in the Direction of the Pointing to See.
Carson: It makes much more sense to talk about how to GET to a point of realizing "I am That" rather then to spend a lot of time just trying to sit there and wrap one's head around the fact that "I am That".
This statement is half True. The mind will never undertand Understanding. But speaking about what practices GET one to the Point of Understanding is erroneous. There is noting to "get" and no where to "get to". If one wholeheartedly believes that they are actually "doing something" to "get somewhere", where dear ones, does this lie? Within the sense of a separate individual who acts as if they are accomplishing anything at all. Do the practices. Do them Whole Heartedly, but let go of the belief that there is something you can DO to get This.
Carson: For most of us, (I think) it is not possible to reach Self Realization by simply contemplating the Source.
Seriously? So you think by getting caught up in what ISN'T (ie: the sense of self, the "journey of someone", the belief in accomplishing something and getting somewhere) should be focused on? This is not to imply that one should focus on the Source, as that is akin to asking the eye to see itself, but see that BOTH are empty and let it all go. Do the practices, don't the practices, talk about This, don't talk about this, eat pizza, don't eat pizza... but drop the striving and grasping. It is a dead end.
Carson: Or at least it is going to take a hell of a lot longer. And there really isn't much to say on this topic as I have said above. So why talk about it?
Why talk about anything? That is the real question.
Carson: Hi knowingunknown,
Hello dear friend.
Carson: I'm sorry you took what I said as me feeling as if I am being attacked by you, this was not my intention as I did not, and do not, feel this way in the least.
This one did not feel attacked, as there is nothing to attack. It was the other way around: that those these Pointings are directed to felt attacked and the need to defend.
Carson: Like you said, there is noone here to attack anyways.
Be honest. Most, if not all, on this site still feel as if there is something to defend, some great idea or insight to guard, some path or practice to protect and some-one who can get offended.
Carson: I hope my above post to Brother Neil makes it a littel more clear what I was trying to say in my earlier posting.
It is seen where the mindset is coming from, yes.
Carson: I am not against these teachings, I understand in my mind that this is all true, but understanding it in the mind doesn't do anyone any good. I need to understand this via personal experience.
Yes. Direct Experience is the Only Way. All else is empty banter.
Carson: And the only way to actually do that in my experience is through spiritual practices such as AYP.
Do practices. Do them diligently. Do them with the deep longing to Know nothing short of Truth. Let all else, even the idea that you can achieve something, fall away.
Carson: I have never spontaneously gone into samadhi or a state of complete union with God without either using entheogens or using meditation practices.
Rare is the man who is standing on the street corner eating a hot dog and comes to spontaneous Full Understanding. However, that doesn't mean even that can't happen. There are no prerequisites, no expectations, no requirements to Know Truth. When the belief that these are needed, or anything else is needed for that matter, falls away then Truth IS Known.
Carson: Especially not just by thinking or understanding that "I am That".
Hill of dry beans.
Carson: I appreciate that you are trying to pass on knowledge here, and that is honorable of you/God/Source,
That's pretty funny, dear Carson. "Honorable of you/God/Source". As if this is just something to take up time with, as if God/Source is bored and felt the need to do something to get lost within, so hey, why not visit a site for a while and rile the seekers. Pretty funny.
Carson: but at least for me personally, this has all been said and has helped me progress very little.
And this is fine. Perhaps there is someone here which will benefit. Perhaps not. Although, Divine Will is Divine Will, so who is man to question It. The Totality can never be comprehended by the human mind. There is no way man can fully understand all the Deep Mysteries of the universe, just accept them.
Carson: I'm sure that there are some people on the forum that can benefit by more Advaita teachings, but I for one seem to have heard it all before. Sorry if this seems harsh, I am a bit short on time and probably not coming across as I wish I was. Please forgive me and take no offence. None was meant.
No offense taken. Forgiveness for what? Thank you for sharing.
Blessings. |
Edited by - knowingunknown on Nov 14 2008 11:28:07 PM |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 6:57:36 PM
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Neil says: "what MUST one do to find God" ... that to me is what matters, and only that.
Yogani's answer to Neil would be that purification and opening comes before all else. He claims necessary participation of the neurobiological system. Finally he claims bhakti or devotion to an ideal or ishta as the foremost yoga practice.
I wonder what KUK has to offer on these 3 points.
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Nov 14 2008 11:23:45 PM |
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knowingunknown
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 11:58:50 PM
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Brilliant soft moonlit evening dear friend,
Neil says: "what MUST one do to find God" ... that to me is what matters, and only that.
Newpov: Yogani's answer to Neil would be that purification and opening comes before all else.
This is a given. Purirfication, or cleansing, is nothing other letting go of what has been acquired in way of attachments and identifications. Where you cease to exist, the "you" which you believe you are, God IS. To discover this, that "you" must be dissolved. This is what Purification IS.
Newpov: He claims necessary participation of the neurobiological system.
The body indeed feels the affects of the Conscious Energy which is DOING this. Stated another way, Consciousness is Clearing, the you which you now believe exists isn't... the body isn't... the mind isn't... the practices aren't... Just Consciousness Itself. The Practices, if done consistently and persistently, just allow one to get out of way; to quiet down and allow the "story of me" to be cut assunder once and for all. So while the body may indeed be affected during this time, Trust that it has nothing to do with the body or the mind. It has to do clearing out those ideas, beliefs and attachments to entirely.
Newpov: Finally he claims bhakti or devotion to an ideal or ishta as the foremost yoga practice.
And he is right.
Blessings.
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Edited by - knowingunknown on Nov 15 2008 02:47:11 AM |
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machart
USA
342 Posts |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2008 : 12:28:45 AM
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Hi knowingunknown,
A wonderful autumn evening to you as well.
KU:The problems lies in the assumption that the words are the Meaning. Dear Carson, the words aren't the Meaning, but are begging one to look beyond to where they Point. To say "I am That" amounts to a hill of dry beans. Viewing Pointings as a philosophy and thus trying to adopt a teaching as Truth is backwards. The Truth Is and the words spill forward in an attempt to Point the Way.
I know. This is why I said later to you that knowing this in the mind and knowing this through experience are two different things.
KU:But speaking about what practices GET one to the Point of Understanding is erroneous. There is noting to "get" and no where to "get to".
I disagree here because running around with your mind all cluttered will not help one progress on the spiritual path, whereas there ARE some practices that will actually benefit one in this way. These ARE worth talking about IMHO. And yes, for some of us there is something to "get". For me it was "clean". As in clean off of opiates and amphetamines. This happened ONLY because of the practices, again making them worth talking about.
Carson: For most of us, (I think) it is not possible to reach Self Realization by simply contemplating the Source.
KU: Seriously? So you think by getting caught up in what ISN'T (ie: the sense of self, the "journey of someone", the belief in accomplishing something and getting somewhere) should be focused on? This is not to imply that one should focus on the Source, as that is akin to asking the eye to see itself, but see that BOTH are empty and let it all go. Do the practices, don't the practices, talk about This, don't talk about this, eat pizza, don't eat pizza... but drop the striving and grasping. It is a dead end.
You answered this in a later posting yourself. You said:
"Rare is the man who is standing on the street corner eating a hot dog and comes to spontaneous Full Understanding." Hence why it is more beneficial to the common man to talk about practices and not Advaita.
Carson: I'm sorry you took what I said as me feeling as if I am being attacked by you, this was not my intention as I did not, and do not, feel this way in the least.
KU:This one did not feel attacked, as there is nothing to attack. It was the other way around: that those these Pointings are directed to felt attacked and the need to defend.
Please reread the red section as I was saying that I didn't feel as if I was defending anything nor being attacked by you. And I'm sorry you felt that way. You completely misread this statement.
Carson: I appreciate that you are trying to pass on knowledge here, and that is honorable of you/God/Source,
KU:That's pretty funny, dear Carson. "Honorable of you/God/Source". As if this is just something to take up time with, as if God/Source is bored and felt the need to do something to get lost within, so hey, why not visit a site for a while and rile the seekers. Pretty funny.
The reason I said this is because you repeatedly refer to yourself as "this one" and claim that you have realized your true nature so therefor I feel silly referring to you as knowingunknown when you basically refer to yourself as Source. I didn't want to have you again pointing out that there is noone here. I get it.
I wish you a wonderful evening. Best of luck.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Nov 15 2008 02:50:36 AM |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2008 : 08:09:57 AM
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ku, quote:
edit added: ku, please email me privately if you feel so inclined. Thank you - newpov
What might you suggest as a feasible passage to Advaita?
Also, would you please offer commentary on any or all of these zany associations of mine?
First chore -- start working on purification to get the “story of me” out of the way. This means starting with the body. The following alludes to muladhara chakra, the spinal nerve, and crown chakra. (Is karmic purification a useful concept in the passage to advaita?) quote:
Blessed are those who will have washed their robes clean, so that they will have the right to feed on the tree of life and can come through the gates into the city. -- Revelation 22:14
Second chore – progress in working up through 3 stages of consciousness to the fourth: waking state (A, or vaishvanara), dream state (U, or taijasa), deep sleep state (M, or prajna), and finally to silence (I am, or bindu or various stages of enlightenment or even to so-called Absolute Consciousness). quote:
I am ... the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. -- Rev. 22:13
Yogani says, “24 hour witness is stage one enlightenment.” His other comments on samadhi may be pertinent here; see: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=667 (Would his Stillness with Movement, or my Genesis 1:2, be your Empty Space?)
Third chore – select ishta or devotional ideal. Decide what I want for myself after all desires have been fulfilled or relinquished. If all desire and power is transitory and ephemeral, what effects do I want to leave behind, both within and without?
The suggested initial mantra at AYP is “I am.” This would be identification with the fourth stage. This, understood as an ishta or devotional ideal, is worthily Truthful, but it seems abstract for me.
You spoke recently about “Love loving Love.” Truth for me is, I have never experienced love. I don't know what love is and so can't give it away. I'm a fearful person all around. Also fraudulent. I cringe under disapproval. Christians claim that "perfect" love casts out fear. Is this true? Whence cometh perfect love in this lifetime?
Says the Sata-patha-Brahmana, as translated by John Woodroffe in his Garland of Letters, quote:
“In the beginning was God with power through speech. God said, 'May I be many ... may I be propagated. And by his will expressed through subtle speed, he united himself with that speech and became pregnant ....”
Christian assert that God is Love. Is this an aspiration or a fact? You say, “Divine Will is Divine Will.” Love. Will. hmm... So then, could I not make a willful assertion or decision to affirm and enact or materialize through fiat my own nature, qua ishta, qua goal, by using the Sanskrit mantra, “Aham Prema” or “Ah-hahm Preh-mah” for “I am Divine Love?” What do you say about this? Would I be rewarded? quote:
“Look, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me, to repay everyone as their deeds deserve.” -- Rev. 22:12
Fourth chore – live and let live. Maybe one in four will leave duality behind for the holiness of advaita: quote:
“Meanwhile let the sinner continue sinning, and the unclean continue to be unclean; let the upright continue in his uprightness, and those who are holy continue to be holy.” -- Rev. 22:11
And now ... what do you make of Rev. 22:10, for the benefit of those desperate enough to read things backwards or otherwise stand on our crazy heads, since Jesus assures psychotic me that last things come first? . 
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Nov 15 2008 08:53:20 AM |
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knowingunknown
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2008 : 3:35:08 PM
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Lovely sunny afternoon dear friend,
Replied to your various emails, but will reply to these many questions here. The mind is on overdrive, dear one. Let these pointings rest in the heart... give them some space to sink in. Sit in quiet, through the practices you have chosen, rather than chasing the dizzying dance of mind.
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edit added: ku, please email me privately if you feel so inclined. Thank you - newpov
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Newpov: What might you suggest as a feasible passage to Advaita?
The Truest Pointing of Advaita would be: Not two - not two.
Newpov: Also, would you please offer commentary on any or all of these zany associations of mine?
First chore -- start working on purification to get the “story of me” out of the way. This means starting with the body. The following alludes to muladhara chakra, the spinal nerve, and crown chakra. (Is karmic purification a useful concept in the passage to advaita?)
There is no "passage to Advaita". There is either separation or there isn't. Advaita is not a "thing", "belief" or "idea" to adopt, but a Living Reality. Advaita itself is not Truth, but uses the Simplest of Pointings to Direct towards Truth. Yogani has a plethora of practices given and teachings shared. Are you utilizing them? Don't get caught up with the various "chakras" and body associations, as this search is to leave those behind. Let Consciousnes Cleanse by being within practices that keep you quiet and out of the way. Nothing else is needed.
Newpov: quote:
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Blessed are those who will have washed their robes clean, so that they will have the right to feed on the tree of life and can come through the gates into the city. -- Revelation 22:14
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Yes.
Newpov: Second chore – progress in working up through 3 stages of consciousness to the fourth: waking state (A, or vaishvanara), dream state (U, or taijasa), deep sleep state (M, or prajna), and finally to silence (I am, or bindu or various stages of enlightenment or even to so-called Absolute Consciousness).
Progress belongs to a "me". Just do the practices and allow forward movement to take place through Grace alone.
Newpov: quote:
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I am ... the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. -- Rev. 22:13
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What you Truly Are is Unborn, Unmanifest and not of this world, nor any other.
Newpov: Yogani says, “24 hour witness is stage one enlightenment.” His other comments on samadhi may be pertinent here; see: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=667 (Would his Stillness with Movement, or my Genesis 1:2, be your Empty Space?)
The Witness state is a stop along the Way, yes. Stillness has no movement. Stillness just IS. From Stillness the entire universe springs forth. The universe is the "movement". Although, when Seeing As Stillness, even movement has no reality.
Newpov: Third chore – select ishta or devotional ideal. Decide what I want for myself after all desires have been fulfilled or relinquished.
It is the other way around. When desires have fallen away or non-attachment has bloomed, then devotion develops on its own. True bhakti or devotion is devoid of desire, striving or creating. It IS nothing other than Being IN Love with the Beloved. When bhakti and jnana collide, there Remains only Knowing IN Love.
Newpov: If all desire and power is transitory and ephemeral, what effects do I want to leave behind, both within and without?
ALL must be left behind. The Pure is without blemish. No-one and no-thing sees the face of the Father and lives. Meaning, Here there is Only The Unborn Pure Source. Since It is the Creator and Sustainer or ALL, what could possibly exist Here. All springs from This.
Newpov: The suggested initial mantra at AYP is “I am.” This would be identification with the fourth stage. This, understood as an ishta or devotional ideal, is worthily Truthful, but it seems abstract for me.
Then let it be. Don't create anything, dis-cover its True Essence beyond ideals, beliefs or constructs.
Newpov: You spoke recently about “Love loving Love.” Truth for me is, I have never experienced love. I don't know what love is and so can't give it away.
Love isn't a commodity. It can't be given away.
Newpov: I'm a fearful person all around. Also fraudulent. I cringe under disapproval. Christians claim that "perfect" love casts out fear. Is this true? Whence cometh perfect love in this lifetime?
Perfect Love Always Already IS. It is the belief that Love can be attained, given or owned that hides its Reality. Let go and let Love Be. You swim within Divine Love every second of every day. Relax.
Newpov: Says the Sata-patha-Brahmana, as translated by John Woodroffe in his Garland of Letters, quote:
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“In the beginning was God with power through speech. God said, 'May I be many ... may I be propagated. And by his will expressed through subtle speed, he united himself with that speech and became pregnant ....”
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Yes, this is Truth. There is no Knower, Known or Knowing. Until the world was born, What IS was Unknown. It will always Remain Unknown to Itself, but will experience a reflection, of sorts, of Itself through the universe.
Newpov: Christian assert that God is Love. Is this an aspiration or a fact?
God IS Love. But until one experiences this Directly, it amounts to nothing more than words. Go deeply within yourself and dis-cover it yourself through diligent practices.
Newpov: You say, “Divine Will is Divine Will.” Love. Will. hmm... So then, could I not make a willful assertion or decision to affirm and enact or materialize through fiat my own nature, qua ishta, qua goal, by using the Sanskrit mantra, “Aham Prema” or “Ah-hahm Preh-mah” for “I am Divine Love?” What do you say about this? Would I be rewarded?
Again, the Point of practices aren't to take you anywhere, but to quiet the mind's constant graspings. Only until you are quiet and still will Truth be Revealed.
Newpov: quote:
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“Look, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me, to repay everyone as their deeds deserve.” -- Rev. 22:12
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Truth transcends a "someone and his deeds".
Newpov: Fourth chore – live and let live. Maybe one in four will leave duality behind for the holiness of advaita:
quote:
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“Meanwhile let the sinner continue sinning, and the unclean continue to be unclean; let the upright continue in his uprightness, and those who are holy continue to be holy.” -- Rev. 22:11
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Life happens. One can either fight and try to swim upstream, or sit back, relax and let the currents of Grace carry you along. What happens in the universe isn't your problem, the problem is that you take it as real.
Newpov: And now ... what do you make of Rev. 22:10, for the benefit of those desperate enough to read things backwards or otherwise stand on our crazy heads, since Jesus assures psychotic me that last things come first? .
Like with these words; these Pointings. The word themselves are meaningless. They Point to where they Spring From.
Dive into practices. You are too caught up wihtin the mind. Relax, enjoy what life has to offer and be still.
Blessings.
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AYPforum
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Posted - Nov 16 2008 : 4:53:26 PM
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Blessings
