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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 10:24:37 PM
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Hi all,
In his Pensees, Blaise Pascal wrote that human fate is like the fate of a gang of chained prisoners who must look on as their companions are put to death one by one, and know that they will be next, and that it will be soon.
And when we realize that this is our fate, and that no voice comes to us from the unfathomable abysses of the universe, which is empty and silent, what are we to do? It is remarkable, he says, that people don't think about the things that most vitally concern them: their deaths, immortality, salvation.
And they don't think about them because they do not want to think about them; they would rather not be reminded of what awaits them. They flee from what is most vital, escaping into amusements of all kinds, anything to forget . . .
Has yoga increased your courage to confront realities in the here-and-now or meet human fear or confront relational difficulties or accept bodily pain and oncoming deterioration or decay?
For those of you who have been doing AYP or any other form of yoga for a time, I'm curious about how your own view of death may have changed.
What was it before, and what is it now?
Or, to be perfectly candid, have these practices as yet made no difference in your ruminations or dreams about death, notwithstanding the various Upanishadic promises of salvation or immortality?
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Nov 10 2008 09:12:55 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 10:52:13 PM
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That is a very negative view of life.
When he says "no voice comes to us from the unfathomable abysses of the universe, which is empty and silent", it is someone speaking completely from the ego mind. The abyss may be silent, but it is not empty, and it is filled with exactly this love that he thinks is missing.
The idea of salvation evolved from ancient yoga principles, and the practices at AYP lead to exactly that; being saved from the suffering. But it is modern religions who have forgotten the practices, and follow some ritual that has its reward after death.
If you do the practices you reach heaven here on earth, and so have no fear of death because you understand that you are not mortal.
personally I have only tasted some of this, but yoga has not so much "increased your courage to meet human fear or confront reality" as it has gotten rid of the fear of confronting reality. It has given me overflowing peace and comfort where there used to be fear and anxiety. It has gotten rid of the fear of death also because of piercing the illusion of reality.
Also it makes me much more in touch with reality, rather than escaping from it. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2008 : 10:17:58 AM
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I don't exactly understand what is the meaning of "And when we realize that this is our fate, and that no voice comes to us from the unfathomable abysses of the universe, which is empty and silent, what are we to do?"
But the rest of the OP's message rings with me. Last few years I do worry more about death and I suspect Yoga has a role in it. I have an unresolved desire in life and am having a tough time fulfulling that desire let alone overcoming it. I can "sense" that my clock is running out and I will go through a death and birth yet again/wait for long time to be born again because of this goddamned unfulfilled desire. Unlike in the past where I used to think "we can enjoy unlimited rebirths on this earth", my opinion has changed , and I now have a bitter distate for death. I realize death is very very painful and not worth going life with unresolved desires. And my drive gets rekindled to extinguish my desire that is going to kill me if unfulfilled. Of course I can't give up a desire without attaining it, for there is nothing to give up then and by escaping from putting the hardwork towards fulfulling the desire, I would never eradicate the seed. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2008 : 7:50:47 PM
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Well, you changed the question a little:
"Has yoga increased your courage to confront realities in the here-and-now or meet human fear or confront relational difficulties or accept bodily pain and oncoming deterioration or decay?"
Yes to all of those, but not so much increased courage, as changing my perspective on those things so that the fear is gone. This has the same effect as increased courage, but from a different perspective.
Those things mentioned are things that a fearful person worries about. When you don't have God or another high ideal as something to aspire to, instead you will have fear. Fear is the opposite of love. The world is full of reasons to be fearful and it is also full of reasons to be full of love.
It is up to the individual to control which perception he will live in.
Each of those two worlds are completely compelling when we are immersed in them. In other words, once you have completely adopted one perception or the other (love or fear), it seems impossible that the other world could exist.
But they exist simultaneously.
Yoga practices align us with the world of love. in my case, I use the word "God", but even an atheist can align with the world of love. You can drive yourself crazy trying to understand how that is possible, but it is what we have found to be true.
So if you live in a world of fear, you imagine you need to find methods to muster up courage to face the terrible things out there.
Or, through Yoga practices, you can live in the world of love, where there is no fear of what's out there, or what the future holds, because you have unshakeable faith. You test it all the time in small ways and it always proves itself.
The best part about it is that you don't need to even try and convince your reasoning mind of this. All you need to do is read the lessons far enough to learn the twice daily practices, do them regularly, and the rest happens automatically.
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Edited by - Etherfish on Nov 10 2008 7:53:16 PM |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2008 : 11:58:38 PM
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quote:
Has yoga increased your courage to confront realities in the here-and-now or meet human fear or confront relational difficulties or accept bodily pain and oncoming deterioration or decay?
This has definetly been an ongoing process. I think meditation and AYP practices and what not have shown me certain states of being to incorporate, to strive towards in a way. All that philosophical thinking of little self big Self. I feel doing some practices wrong has made me move backwards in the facing fear\facing my problems. Too much "this moment"... basically too much third eye\higher chakra energy while losing some of my grounding. I want to strive in the other direction for a bit though, work almost solely on my root chakra, take responsibility for my problems, face my fears and issues.
quote:
For those of you who have been doing AYP or any other form of yoga for a time, I'm curious about how your own view of death may have changed.
What was it before, and what is it now?
Before... I thought death was it. I was raised as a Christian, went to church in my youth, and then I just stopped believing. And then I got all into Buddhism and started meditating and such. I've had a few visions of past lifes and what have you not, and so I definetly believe in rebirth. I've seen Buddhas face while meditating also, while meditating. I passed it off as scenery at the time, though I feel him and other enlightened ones are always watching over us.
Some recent events have also brought back much of my belief in the existence, the presence of Jesus Christ in all our lifes.
I definetly believe there's an afterlife. In samsara, the cycle of deaths and rebirths. How it ends, why it ends, does it end? What that means... still not sure about that one.
I don't really believe in hell. I've heard that the movie "what dreams may come" is supposodly somewhat accurate, or depicts like actual places in the after life.
I kinda dig the interpretation of hell in that movie. That we create it ourselves, that we basically relieve our hell's created on earth over and over again, until we can muster up the desire to face those issues, that karmah head on. Sorta like god never turns his back on us, but that he needs us to want more. To do the work.
Still not sure about that one though. |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2008 : 12:33:24 AM
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I agree with Ether that this is a negative view of Life.
For me, the fear of death is still present, but has changed dramatically because of yoga practice. I no longer fear death itself or what awaits me in the afterlife. What I fear is painful, traumatic death, and also the loss of loved ones through death. If I perceive a danger of bodily harm (whether real or imagined), fear arises as it always has.
But if I somehow knew I would die soon in a peaceful, painless way, I feel that I'd be at peace with it. I realized today that, while there are many things in Life I still want to experience and accomplish, I can be at peace dying without having done those things. That includes enlightenment 
Another side effect of yoga is that I no longer sit around dreading imagined death scenarios.
Fear and anxiety have lessened, but have not gone away.
With Love
cosmic |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2008 : 04:02:32 AM
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Once you have transcended the body sensations, there's no death or fear but in the mind, if you let them get in.
Maybe it would help you to read Elizabeth Kübler-Ross books, all of them are about death, I mean death doesn't exist, at least for me.
I practice also EVP and have many recordings with very clear voices from the other side, even I can recognize the voices of some friends, and relatives, I have also met a french couple that has a big group all over the world, and the voices are so clear, that they seems to be from this side, not from the other.
About Yoga I think it can help to muster up courage to get rid of fears, any fears, as they belong to the ego, not to the soul.
I think Yoga and the states of Samadhi helps to understand that death doesn't exist but in our physical frequency.
Thanatology will help a lot to those who fear death, once you read Kúbler-Ross's books, you'll never be afraid of death. Knowledge is very important and experiences.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by newpov
Hi all,
In his Pensees, Blaise Pascal wrote that human fate is like the fate of a gang of chained prisoners who must look on as their companions are put to death one by one, and know that they will be next, and that it will be soon.
And when we realize that this is our fate, and that no voice comes to us from the unfathomable abysses of the universe, which is empty and silent, what are we to do? It is remarkable, he says, that people don't think about the things that most vitally concern them: their deaths, immortality, salvation.
And they don't think about them because they do not want to think about them; they would rather not be reminded of what awaits them. They flee from what is most vital, escaping into amusements of all kinds, anything to forget . . .
Has yoga increased your courage to confront realities in the here-and-now or meet human fear or confront relational difficulties or accept bodily pain and oncoming deterioration or decay?
For those of you who have been doing AYP or any other form of yoga for a time, I'm curious about how your own view of death may have changed.
What was it before, and what is it now?
Or, to be perfectly candid, have these practices as yet made no difference in your ruminations or dreams about death, notwithstanding the various Upanishadic promises of salvation or immortality?
newpov
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mahabaratara
United Kingdom
92 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2008 : 5:46:47 PM
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Astral Projection...
You never forget your first controlled concscious exit...
Then you are just aware that there is something more and that in the power of that specific momment that no matter what anyone else says about anything else that that realisation can never be taken away...
Its the single most transformative experience a human being can have...
Death is just a phase...
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Edited by - mahabaratara on Nov 11 2008 5:51:07 PM |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2008 : 6:44:36 PM
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Hi Mahabaratara,
And how do you astral project? Is it something that just happens of you can make it happen? Is someone always ready for it or one has to work at it, maybe get at a certain stage of develoment?
P.S.(edit): I think this gets out of topic here so if you want just email me. thanks. |
Edited by - YogaIsLife on Nov 12 2008 06:32:29 AM |
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mahabaratara
United Kingdom
92 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 5:34:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by YogaIsLife
Hi Mahabaratara,
And how do you astral project? Is it something that just happens of you can make it happen? Is someone always ready for it or one has to work at it, maybe get at a certain stage of develoment?
P.S.(edit): I think this gets out of topic here so if you want just email me. thanks.
Try this link...
But just remember that AP as I call it is but the icing on the cake...
Dont forget the cake *no* matter how sweet the icing...
Cake-core AYP techniques...
http://www.robertpeterson.org/obebook.html
Also Robert Bruce has a book called Astral Dynamics and has a vey good support forum too...
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 6:30:21 PM
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Thanks a lot Maha.
It seems awfully complicated this! So many chapters...so many exercises...Since it is not really my aim (frankly I am a bit afraid of OBEs) I hope it will come naturally with time as my practices progress and then it will feel right. How did it work out with you? |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 01:15:41 AM
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Death is Life.
Death is energy changing form,
bringing all experiences back to source
The Universe goes
- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
in tremendous ecstacy
everytime death occurs
even when a tiny insect dies
I am here to see the body die
and rise again
and die again
Life and death of bodies is a dance
which never really happens
to a particular Someone
It happens In Consciousness
as an ever living, changing existence
Since I am not the body,
thus were never born,
I can never die
I am eternal
- - -
Through yoga practices, this is what I have come to know in direct experience. When I kill a moscito... everything goes *Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh* in the whole field of awareness... and there is involuntary smiling. (A bit psychopathic, perhaps?   )
However, I have also come to know that human beings are filled with attachments and are entangled in emotions in all our relationships, so when someone close dies... there is chock, sorrow, grief and pain... due to identification with those emotions. And there is compassion with and understanding of the suffering that brings.
I have never been afraid of death, always had a death wish... has had very little understanding of why people grieve. First came the understanding that it was the Death of Ego I was longing for, the death of the mind. Now... there is Joy and celebration of Life... the death wish is gone. Since Life includes Death. And yet... there is a greater respect for all existing beings, no matter how tiny... All living beings have a right to live, even a moscito. Ahimsa, non-violence, non-killing, is held high!
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 03:57:03 AM
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emc
Your poem was Great ! I agree totally with you, Death is Life.
Elizabeth Kubler-Ross thought "cry when someone has born, cause his karma will arise then on, and rejoice when someone is death cause his karma is gonne "
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by emc
Death is Life.
Death is energy changing form,
bringing all experiences back to source
The Universe goes
- Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
in tremendous ecstacy
everytime death occurs
even when a tiny insect dies
I am here to see the body die
and rise again
and die again
Life and death of bodies is a dance
which never really happens
to a particular Someone
It happens In Consciousness
as an ever living, changing existence
Since I am not the body,
thus were never born,
I can never die
I am eternal
- - -
Through yoga practices, this is what I have come to know in direct experience. When I kill a moscito... everything goes *Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh* in the whole field of awareness... and there is involuntary smiling. (A bit psychopathic, perhaps? )
However, I have also come to know that human beings are filled with attachments and are entangled in emotions in all our relationships, so when someone close dies... there is chock, sorrow, grief and pain... due to identification with those emotions. And there is compassion with and understanding of the suffering that brings.
I have never been afraid of death, always had a death wish... has had very little understanding of why people grieve. First came the understanding that it was the Death of Ego I was longing for, the death of the mind. Now... there is Joy and celebration of Life... the death wish is gone. Since Life includes Death. And yet... there is a greater respect for all existing beings, no matter how tiny... All living beings have a right to live, even a moscito. Ahimsa, non-violence, non-killing, is held high!
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Pascal; how do you experience death today?
