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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 09:36:29 AM
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Hey guys
I have been having a bit of an all-around issue lately and was wondering if I can get some helpful input.
I guess it started in the past month or two. My practice seemed to have deepened to a new level in terms of my stillness practices. Meditation became something deeper and I experienced states of having no thoughts. For a while I felt this carry over into the rest of my day and I loved it! But then, the mind would creep back in and I would be back to a lot of unconicious egoic thoughts. While I know the trap of *wanting* to be silent I tried to practice Tolle's accepting-the-moment...but I don't know, it just isn't working. This has been going on and off for about a month now. I'm silent, then not. I know this is quite normal for someone practicing 1.5 years.
What confuses me however is how much attention should I really be spending to my mind and conciousness outside of twice a day practice? I never really put any thought into it until I got into Tolle. I have always had a 50/50 relationship with his teachings because on the one hand they helped me identify a lot of bad material in my mind but on the other hand sometimes it drives me crazy! My mind is HEAVILY overractive my whole life so it is a lot to deal with! I find if I am spending the whole rest of my day trying to witness my mind and "ease into silence" the opposite tends to happen and I am THINKING ABOUT NOT THINKING!
I have heard the phrase "just let it be" quite a few times in my recent life from people who don't even know about my practices. "Don't think so much" is a veryyy common one too. But what scares me about "not thinking so much" is that if I let go I will descend into total unconciousness, which for me is a scary place. I am keeping tabs on my brain nearly every waking second am I am not sure if this is spiritual practice. I am essentially *seeking silence*, which I know is not what practice is about. I miss the old days when I just did AYP with no thought as to the rest of my day...although I was kind of a jerk back then with many more bad thought tendencies.
I am also having trouble in the "real world". I have essentially lost touch with nearly every friend I have and never go out or do anything. I'm busy in school, but I also cant really go out often because I have to do my sadhana and by the time I'm done I don't feel like leaving again. This never bothered me until recently when I have started to feel lonely and left out of the world. I am only 21 and I feel it is too early to become a hermit. But, on the other hand, I feel unable to really relate to people and I think this is because my mind is so out-of-control. It is constantly set on self-destruct of the ego.
I was thinking maybe I should focus more on something. I am a full-time student in massage therapy so I know I can focus my time on that.
I am also plagued by apolcolyptic thoughts so a major problem in my practice is that I feel I am "running out of time" to become enlightened. For example, if I am practicing being concious or doing sadhana that equals "a bit further, maybe youll be ok" but if I lapse into unconciousness, say eating a junky snack or talking about someone behind their back, then it is "a couple steps back, how much time can you afford to waste?". I don't hear voices or anything, but thoughts of apocoloyspe or concpiracy pop into my head a few times a day and really take a heavy toll on my life. Like a bad memory that you forgot and then remember again. I feel like I can't waste any time and this is taking a toll on my practice also.
Sorry if this post is incoherent. If anyone can offer any help on any of the ideas on here, thank you :-) |
Edited by - anthony574 on Nov 08 2008 09:41:09 AM |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 10:33:53 AM
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quote:
I feel unable to really relate to people and I think this is because my mind is so out-of-control.
Me too. I am catching hell around here right now because my functioning or beliefs are at variance with what others find acceptable.
You are 21? I am 66 and also feeling pressured that I am running out of time. You are not alone.
Do you feel inadequate after reading the posts of so many accomplished spiritual gymnasts around here? I do!
newpov |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 11:15:03 AM
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Hi Anthony
I don't find your post incoherent at all :-)
Thank you so much for sharing 
Just a few points to remember:
Balance is very important. That means: Not too much of anything.
quote:
But, on the other hand, I feel unable to really relate to people and I think this is because my mind is so out-of-control.
It is becuase the mind is so much in control that these problems occur.
quote:
It is constantly set on self-destruct of the ego.
Yes...this is common. Mind thinking it can destroy itself. Mind trying to delete its own latent tendencies. And everytime it sets out to do this....is itself one of those tendencies.
So. Don't listen to mind. You don't have to destroy it, you see. Just don't give it all that attention.
So that when mind says this:
quote:
But then, the mind would creep back in and I would be back to a lot of unconicious egoic thoughts.
Just...let it say it. But let it run right by you. Don't buy it. It is what minds do. They manipulate. They have opinions about everything. Including your own progress
quote:
I'm silent, then not. I know this is quite normal for someone practicing 1.5 years.
Mind is silent, then not. And this is normal for everyone - no matter how long you have practised. Silence is always everywhere - in spite of this.
quote:
What confuses me however is how much attention should I really be spending to my mind and conciousness outside of twice a day practice?
The mind and the consciousness are blended for a long time. That is why it seems like it is mind that is the awareness. But it isn't, you see. So give yourself a proper break between practises now.
quote:
I was thinking maybe I should focus more on something. I am a full-time student in massage therapy so I know I can focus my time on that.
Yes. Do. You see.....when you are engaged fully in something - this is also a good thing. You end up forgetting mind for a while then. And surprise, surprise: It functions on its own! And you can find yourself enjoying yourself instead
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I am also having trouble in the "real world". I have essentially lost touch with nearly every friend I have and never go out or do anything
What you call "the real world" is actually - the real world. This is it! So it is very important that you go out and interact. Life....the real world.....is such a great guru! Whether you are sad or happy.....the important thing is to be alive. In forced mind control we are "half dead". It takes the juice out of life. And this jucie....the vibrancy of life.....is Silence itself. In action. It is what you are already, Anthony. So having fun is important. The joy you feel communing with friends brings you much closer to inner silence......it is a type of nourishment that we all benefit from.
When mind says:
quote:
But what scares me about "not thinking so much" is that if I let go I will descend into total unconciousness, which for me is a scary place.
Don't buy into that. It is the kind of thing minds say. Let the thoughts come (they do anyway, right?). Keep your daily meditation practise. Honor that with all your heart. And then go out and live your life. Don't "practise" outside practises.
Not following every thought with your attention is not going to make you unconscious. On the contrary - it will make you more conscious. It is just that this will come about spontaniously.....it is not something you can force into happening. If you force it - it will take longer to see this. Your practise sees to the progress. And the life you are living will do the rest. It will give you the experiences you need to mature as a human being. If you allow it. So don't be a hermit!
Eventually the silence "under" the thoughts will be experienced more often. And when there are no thougts you are not totally unconscious - you are totally conscious. And it is not a scary place at all. You are simply joyous right where you are. Now.
quote:
I feel like I can't waste any time and this is taking a toll on my practice also.
Yes. Your Bhakti is strong. This is very good. It is just that "less" is more when it comes to progress here. And it is crucial that there is balance in your life. Some practise, some work, some duties, some social life and hopefully a lot of fun! It has nothing to do with whether you once in a while eat junk food or think "bad thoughts". This is just minds evaluation of it. These habits will set themselves right if they are unhealthy for you. Everything will set itself right if you let it be and continue your twice a day practise and go out and enjoy life in between.
After some time, there will be a spontanious watching coming up outside practises also. But this will come of itself, and it will be effortless.
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I miss the old days when I just did AYP with no thought as to the rest of my day....
Go back to that simple practise
And do what you enjoy outside of those times.
There is already plenty of normal life duties too, right? So it is not like you are lazy
What does your twice a day daily practise look like?
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 11:17:52 AM
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Hi Newpov
You posted while I responded to Anthony
Hope you find something you can use in my response to him. If not - feel free to ask.
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 11:10:56 AM
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Katrine, thank you for your compassionate response. Many of these truths came to my yesterday and I felt better than I have in a while. Everything you said absolutely makes sense. I was REALLY forcing it. Going out and living life felt SO right, and my practice is better also.
And I practice twice a day SB and DM and asanas when I feel the urge, nothing too serious. But I did apporahc meditation more non-chalant then I have in a long time. I just "got it done" without any expectations and then I moved on into my night and instead of feeling comatose afterwards I felt energized! A teacher in my school who does energy work told me once that I expend a ton of energy with my overactive brain. The mind trying to destroy itself expends quite a bit of energy!
Newpov, I used to feel inadequate when I read the amazing experiences of people on the forum, but over time I realized that 98% of these people have been practicing for a LONG time. And for the ones that seem "naturally gifted" who can fathom the endless factors that contribute to one's matrix of obstructions? Enjoy your own path and feel inspiried by others. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 4:58:25 PM
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Hi Anthony
quote:
And I practice twice a day SB and DM and asanas when I feel the urge, nothing too serious. But I did apporahc meditation more non-chalant then I have in a long time. I just "got it done" without any expectations and then I moved on into my night and instead of feeling comatose afterwards I felt energized!
That's just great!
Simple like this is very good The practise is very powerful in itself, you see. All you have to do is sit down and "get it done" as you say
quote:
A teacher in my school who does energy work told me once that I expend a ton of energy with my overactive brain.
Well - look at it this way, Anthony: That ton of energy is your vitality! And a lot of vitality is very, very good to begin with When less of it is invested in the activity of the mind, that very vitality itself is what enjoys life. So...the more vitality = the more joy. And this is very good news, yes ?
quote:
The mind trying to destroy itself expends quite a bit of energy!
Indeed. See......mind is not the enemy. Mind is a great tool when needed. The mistake is just that we buy into the idea that it is needed all the time. It is not. Mind may resist this fact - but just let it - it'll just have to get over itself
Glad to hear that you are feeling so much lighter.
And I must say - I think your inner guru is working just fine - most of what I wrote, you already knew, right? The trust in what is beyond mind will strengthen itself along the way - through experiences just like the one you posted here
May you enjoy life a lot, Anthony |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2008 : 10:40:41 AM
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Well, I wanted to add an update.
I was doing the "not caring about what I think thing" for a couple days but then I started to realize that as a result I was lost in my thoughts nearly all day. I would realize this, and then back in thoughts over and over again. I know that this is "good practice" in meditation and all...but I don't feel it is right for me to go allll the way back to that after almost 2 years of practice.
Same with DM. I don't really experience any stillness anymore. It is all thoughts with periodic realizing that I am lost in thoughts. But pretty much 97% not-stillness and I feel that is over the line for how much you can be lost in thoughts and still accomplish anything. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2008 : 2:54:55 PM
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do you use a lot of caffeine? That can make it difficult to find stillness. But even without sometimes it is difficult in DM. If I'm 10 minutes into DM and can't even stay on the mantra because of the avalanche of thoughts, there are a couple things I do.
one is forget the mantra for a while and just try to calm my mind down. I try to get it in a sleepier mood so the thoughts are more floating by instead of crashing down. Then return to the mantra.
Second, i either do an extra practice, or prolong the time. I've found this is the case where you can practice more without any bad side effects. |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2008 : 6:36:06 PM
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Thank you for the advice.
Today I ventured a bit from my "back off" phase and found stillness more throughout the day. I found there is quite a fine line between not trying not to try and trying not to try and not trying to not try. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2008 : 10:51:12 AM
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Hi Anthony
quote:
Today I ventured a bit from my "back off" phase and found stillness more throughout the day.
Disarming the mind is mostly done by allowing it. I always found it uplifting to hear that what mind conjures up of ideas is not something that is actually true. But "not giving it attention" is not a job for the mind. I could have been much more explicit concerning this, Anthony.
Allow the mind!
Since it is not constructive to say "no" to what is already happening, yes?
Allowing is however not a doing.
That is why I said not to "practise" between practises. It happens of itself...in spite of mind....not because of it.
It even includes the allowing of the fact that you don't allow! The resistance is also allowed. If mind starts judging itself.....then this too is allowed.
Anything that is allowed to surface (since it always already does) will be touched by awareness/silence. That is why the twice daily practise is so crucial. Only silence can disarm mind.
"Backing off" is giving mind a job to do......and this will keep it active.....and not result in stillness (as you have already found out), but rather contract the mind around its own productions. Leave yourself open. And if you feel yourself going with mind (you will notice it after it has happened)....allow this too when you notice it afterwards. But don't make this into a practise now. If it happens spontaneously - fine. If not - don't do it. The very allowing..... this relaxed attitude will soften the contraction and give mind less fuel. However - the ability to "see" from the detached stand of the witness/silence will come later on and is not "your doing".
Silence touching mind to a greater and greater extent is the ongoing result of the deep meditation practise that is the "doing" you do that is most crucial. That - and the enjoying of the life being lived between practises.
quote:
I found there is quite a fine line between not trying not to try and trying not to try and not trying to not try
*laughing*.....well said, Anthony
Spoken from the inner guru you truly are
Nothing matches your own direct experience like you just expressed it - it will be more of these that steadily make you come back to the present moment. Where life can be enjoyed fully
Keep enjoying
And please keep sharing - it is much appreciated.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2008 : 12:37:39 PM
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anthony, i read your inchoherant words, sounds a lot like me. you ever pass by a big dog that stands behind a fence, you see the barrier between yourself and the dog. The dog barks but you pay it no mind, you keep whistling and going about your day. The dog has a barrier, it cannot bother you. Kind of funny how god and dog are reversed. a dog feels your fear but when it does not feel fear it feels your love. just look at it like the mind is on the other side of the fence, maybe the illusion is that we are in the backyard with a big angry god/dog. maybe if we love the God/dog it will feel love and love us in return. So the mind barks do you listen? not really sure how clear this came out, not really sure that it matters, it will strike the chords it is meant to, if only inside of this me who is typing it.
with love
we are one in the same
brother neil
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2008 : 1:35:26 PM
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anthoney, i don't know if i missed it but how long have you been meditating so far? I just wanted to say that it takes years (and i mean literally years in some cases) to ignore mind chatter and go deeper. Believe me. I remember my very first meditation. I couldn't sit still for 2 minutes. So many battles with the mind over such a long time! Then in the last 6 months suddenley progress. So the Yoga path is a life-long practice. It is worth bearing that in mind.
I can only think of two reasons why people have good experiences. 1) they earned them in past lives and 2) they are lucky.
Don't beat yourself up about not getting much. In fact, you learn with meditation to never beat yourself up at all. It becomes all about calmness and relaxation, noticing thoughts as they come up and not reacting to them emotionally. Eventually they all become unimportant because they are always the same and you kind of learn to distance yourself from them while calmly concentrating with infinite patience and peaceful emotions. When you can ignore them so that they pass by like clouds in the sky and you are able to focus your mind on the mantra in a submissive, peaceful, non-straining way with zero expectations for results, it starts to become an enjoyable thing and it starts to work.
So i think all you need to do is keep practising. Remember, a lot of the people on this forum have been doing yoga for many years. What they experience can belong to you too. Just give it time.
Sorry if i misunderstood. |
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will_Iam
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 12:52:59 PM
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Iam feel the same way. Iam 26 and was of ritlin at 23 after heavey use. Iam back on it know, haveing thoughts of my younger years,bring forth thoughts of
what was, And now is. I think that you should never
draw back into your shell,try to let other people around you know what you have and that they to are welcome to see.I have 2 younger bros and when i see myself getting better,I want to runaway and do it all myself, thats anger. Ill be there whem there smoking a joint or drinking and Ill pass on those many times over. Ill be there becuace they need to know Iam all right. but we all know Iam there becuase someone has to help change the out look on life. share yourself with who ever will listen,you need that postive and negitive engary that people give of so that you know who you are. help or be helped. will_Iam. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 11:31:32 PM
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Hi Anthony,
Lots of good advice already. One more suggestion.
quote:
What confuses me however is how much attention should I really be spending to my mind and conciousness outside of twice a day practice?
Have you read Yogani's Self Inquiry book yet, Anthony?
If not I highly recommend it to you. If so, maybe a re reading would help.
It helped me alot with the daily life aspect.
I studied ET intensively for a while, a couple years at least, and found his teaching to be incomplete, altho quite good on many points. Yogani's book filled in what was missing from Tolle's teaching, for me.
Glad to read that AYP seeds have found such fertile soil in you.
Wishing you continued success, yb. |
Edited by - yogibear on Nov 30 2008 11:43:09 PM |
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spinal_tap
Indonesia
40 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2009 : 12:13:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
a dog feels your fear but when it does not feel fear it feels your love. just look at it like the mind is on the other side of the fence, maybe the illusion is that we are in the backyard with a big angry god/dog. maybe if we love the God/dog it will feel love and love us in return. So the mind barks do you listen?
Interesting insight brother neil, I am going to try that idea although it doesnt seem that easy to implement. |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2009 : 4:42:23 PM
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quote:
I am going to try that idea although it doesnt seem that easy to implement.
with that attitude it will not be, as a child did you think of how hard walking would be, talking would be?
please understand, I am not trying to proclaim I am there, just giving insight from moments.
with love
Brother Neil
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