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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 03:42:52 AM
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I found this list with 110 pitfalls on our way to enlightenment.
http://www.iamuniversity.org/librar...itfalls.html
If anyone wants to add more pitfalls, please do so here 
Or do we have already such a list here on this forum ?
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 06:45:42 AM
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quote:
Wolfgang: If anyone wants to add more pitfalls, please do so here
Nothing to add... but the summation from the website:
quote:
Summation
I think this is a pretty complete list that should give a lot of food for thought.
 
VIL
Jim and His Karma:
quote:
The human mind always tries to complicate. Complication is mind food. Yoga is subtractive.
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Edited by - VIL on Oct 31 2008 07:05:20 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 07:16:48 AM
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Ha! yeah Vil.
It does help to scan the list though, for stuff to work on outside of meditation, such as:
30. The trap of reading too much and not meditating enough.
99. The trap of studying too much and not demonstrating in the real world enough. |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 11:50:56 AM
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41. The trap of isolating yourself from people and thinking that this is spiritual.
59. Believing that other people don't have to work at their spiritual path as you do.
Thinking your moodiness is a true reality of God.
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 5:22:59 PM
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quote:
Etherfish: Ha! yeah Vil.
It does help to scan the list though, for stuff to work on outside of meditation, such as:
30. The trap of reading too much and not meditating enough.
99. The trap of studying too much and not demonstrating in the real world enough.
LOL: (I'm glad you have a sense of humor!)
I read the entire list, earlier, out of curiousity. Personally, I came to the conclusion that it seems counterproductive to focus the mind on what another person considers non-enlightened or "pitfalls".
quote:
anthony574: 41. The trap of isolating yourself from people and thinking that this is spiritual.
59. Believing that other people don't have to work at their spiritual path as you do.
Thinking your moodiness is a true reality of God.
A renunciate and dervish would disagree that the above is unenlightened. Dervishes and Jnanis were/are well known for being moody, irritable, and renunciates/monks consider isolation spiritual.
I also considered the fact that I may have qualities that constitute what an unenlightened person would be, so I'm being difficult, or maybe I'm bored.
Take care:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Oct 31 2008 9:23:33 PM |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2008 : 10:59:30 PM
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111. saying "I consider myself somewhat of an expert on this subject for I have fallen into most of them"
112 "In my travels through life as a spiritual teacher, spiritual psychologist, and disciple on the path, I have become aware of many of the pitfalls and traps of the spiritual path"
Your just a brother or sister
113. To continue with listing the pitfalls that I see on this website.
Be humble or be humbled
we are one
neil
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 05:35:17 AM
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From the author:
quote:
I was the first person in the history of the earth to break this 22nd level of initiation barrier, and I am going to show you how you can do the same! I was also told by Spirit and the Masters that on earth as of the year 2004, there were 50 beings who had achieved the 14th to 15th initiation. However, I was humbly the only one at the 23rd level of initiation. I bring this up not to toot my own horn, but to emphasize a point that I must be doing something quite unusual to humbly stand out like this.
quote:
Another key was I developed a consciousness of being a Master of Masters. By this I mean I kept developing my wisdom and refining my ideals on a spiritual/psychological and physical/earthly level everyday to the point where the overall spiritual ideals I held for myself were infinitely higher than what normal lightworkers or spiritual leaders hold for themselves. This is just an example of a certain impeccability and integrity I required of myself. A certain work ethic I required of myself. A certain purity on all levels I required of myself. A certain level of mastery on discipline I required of myself. A dietary discipline on all levels I required of myself. A level of emotional clarity I required of myself. I kept refining my spiritual ideals, psychological ideals and earthly ideals to the point that I humbly began to be a master of masters, for what I required of myself on all three levels was a level of mastery and self discipline most on the planet had never even conceived of!
http://www.iamuniversity.ch/Dr-Ston...?artpage=9-9
Ah... the enlightened humility of it all!
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Nov 01 2008 05:50:12 AM |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2008 : 02:33:30 AM
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quote:
" My purpose in sharing these with you is to save you suffering, karma, and delay in your path of ascension that comes from not learning these lessons."
Who is he to save us of our suffering, karma and whatever, he forgot to save us from his traps!
So I have to learn "his lessons" to make me feel "saved" and not have delays in my path of ascension ? Is he God ? Nice to meet you !
I can see here a very big Ego. And a false hidden Guru or prophet.
He forgot to learn trap number one.
He also forgot to make the number 111 trap:
The trap of making "traps" to make others believe.
Sat Nam
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfgang
I found this list with 110 pitfalls on our way to enlightenment.
http://www.iamuniversity.org/librar...itfalls.html
If anyone wants to add more pitfalls, please do so here
Or do we have already such a list here on this forum ?
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2008 : 08:51:04 AM
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I think the pitfalls are valid, and it is good to scan through them. It reminds me once again of things to watch.
Obviously the author has not learned the lessons he writes about. This only brings us to a very important lesson on the spiritual path: we can learn something from even the lowest of beings.
I think Yogsni and many others have achieved "24th level of initiation" and beyond, but this author can't see beyond the "23rd" because his status of "master of masters" is such a high pedestal. Probably the higher levels after 23 are back down creeping on the earth with the rest of us.
It is a good list though. So how can the author of such a good list be so deluded? Has he read many books to get that information but not done daily practices?
Or maybe, as we have seen examples of on the forums, he has done practices, achieved much, isolated himself from humanity and gorged his ego with it all?
The trap of labeling 110 traps, and thinking that makes you free of them.
It's the "Emporer's New Clothes" story, only the emporer doesn't know he's naked!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Em..._New_Clothes
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2008 : 11:03:57 AM
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I did'nt get that he considers himself having transcended these pitfalls. They have to be an ongoing process surely, although he did'nt state that specifically he did'nt say anything to the contrary.
He said he was somewhat of an expert because he had fallen into most of them - this could be interpreted as being an expert at falling into traps not in transcending them. This is a type of phrase used by many people when explaining things to people - "been there, done that, got the teeshirt" etc etc.
If someone wrote here - I'm somewhat of an expert at the pitfalls of premature crown opening because I've been doing it for the past twenty years and have suffered every conceivable setback recorded. Please don't do as I do but follow the AYP recomendations.
Is this any different?
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 6:19:48 PM
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Very interesting list!
With a small number of exceptions (i.e. the special belief in Ascended Masters), they are not really bound to any creed either -- they are creed-neutral and fit almost any spiritual path nicely.
109. The trap of trying to achieve ascension to escape one's problems.
It's the first time I've seen this one written down. And it's a good one.
The following is not on his list, but it's in the discussion under it and it's very worthwhile:
Staying clear takes enormous vigilance, self discipline, commitment, self-introspection, and devastating honesty. If the ego can't make you feel like an underdog it will make you feel like a top dog which is even more seductive.
Etherfish, I don't know how this particular guy came across to you so badly. He actually seems quite humble to me, as if he has learned one of the most important things of all. I think you've probably just mis-read him.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Nov 06 2008 6:24:16 PM |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 7:12:58 PM
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quote:
109. The trap of trying to achieve ascension to escape one's problems.
If suffering is my problem then I think he's wrong. If I hadn't tried to do just this thing, I would never have discovered the most beautiful lessons of this life. Sure I have problems but it is the wholehearted search for answers that leads us to the solution. Am I wrong? Is ascension some esoteric phrase with special meaning I don't get?
Jill |
Edited by - jillatay on Nov 07 2008 01:20:56 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 7:17:31 PM
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David - He came across badly not because of that page, but the stuff Vil found on his autobiography page:
Originally posted by VIL
From the author:
quote:
I was the first person in the history of the earth to break this 22nd level of initiation barrier, and I am going to show you how you can do the same! I was also told by Spirit and the Masters that on earth as of the year 2004, there were 50 beings who had achieved the 14th to 15th initiation. However, I was humbly the only one at the 23rd level of initiation. I bring this up not to toot my own horn, but to emphasize a point that I must be doing something quite unusual to humbly stand out like this.
quote:
Another key was I developed a consciousness of being a Master of Masters. By this I mean I kept developing my wisdom and refining my ideals on a spiritual/psychological and physical/earthly level everyday to the point where the overall spiritual ideals I held for myself were infinitely higher than what normal lightworkers or spiritual leaders hold for themselves. This is just an example of a certain impeccability and integrity I required of myself. A certain work ethic I required of myself. A certain purity on all levels I required of myself. A certain level of mastery on discipline I required of myself. A dietary discipline on all levels I required of myself. A level of emotional clarity I required of myself. I kept refining my spiritual ideals, psychological ideals and earthly ideals to the point that I humbly began to be a master of masters, for what I required of myself on all three levels was a level of mastery and self discipline most on the planet had never even conceived of!
http://www.iamuniversity.ch/Dr-Ston...?artpage=1-9
PS I agree with Jillatay,
I have returned to the spiritual path many times because i realize that it is the only solution to my problems.
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Edited by - Etherfish on Nov 06 2008 7:19:36 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2008 : 10:02:51 PM
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I just read some of that link, all I can say is wow.... my mind got all wound up just reading it, thinking of the thousands of things I'd better start doing yesterday. If that's enlightenment then I'm screwed, too much knowledge, striving and effort for me!
I really admire his dedication, I hope he finds or has found his way.
I personally prefer to go with the heart and hopefully keep it as simple as One. All that knowledge hurts my head. |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2008 : 01:43:59 AM
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Jill,
I think this (109) "rule" or "trap" is really far-fetched.
If people wants to achieve "ascension" to escape problems, they just get some heroín, or some other hallucinogenic drugs, to escape problems. All of us has different ways to achieve ascension, or Nibbana, or Samadhi, or whatever. If this person invented all this traps, is because they work for him, but he forgot that all of us are different, so the EGO is always present in these kind of false teachers, or whatever the name. If I invent a system, it can work for me, and maybe for some others, but it may not work for many others, so all the systems are fallibles, that is why one has to be our own's guru.
I think Buddha's system worked only for him, although his teachings are wonderful, that doesn't mean that his system is unfallible.
I don't think anyone knows what is "ascension" they might have an idea, but no one knows for sure.
By the way, What is Ascension ???? (to all of you)
That's why I like guru Puppetji, he might be very right
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by jillatay
quote:
109. The trap of trying to achieve ascension to escape one's problems.
If suffering is my problem then I think he's wrong. If I hadn't tried to do just this thing, I would never have discovered the most beautiful lessons of this life. Sure I have problems but it is the wholehearted search for answers that leads us to the solution. Am I wrong? Is ascension some esoteric phrase will special meaning I don't get?
Jill
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2008 : 04:04:01 AM
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Ascension/enlightenment - its all the same for me, but of course it depends on each
individual what it means to him/her.
quote:
109. The trap of trying to achieve ascension to escape one's problems.
There are some who strive for ascension and what they really want is to leave this world.
But real ascension/enlightenment is to live in the world.
So yes, I am looking for a spiritual solution, but I also need to find
the balance between heaven and earth.
Easier written than done ...
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2008 : 06:45:54 AM
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Hi all,
Simplification comes eventually to everyone, though one might have slipped into 110 or more pitfalls.
Anthem among others might agree with Dharana Darshan, page 12, quote:
In yoga, by focusing all the faculties at one point, we concentrate and relax the mind. Instead of a hundred things happening simultaneously, perhaps ten things will happen and ninety percent of our faculties will be at one point. This is the concept of dharana, the aspect of mental training in yoga.
What could be the biggest pitfall of all? Why is it that some are unsatisfied with the "I am" mantra, for example? Here's what one serious student of yoga has said, "I think Yogani's practices are just great. It may just be me, but I don't personally resonate with the "I am" mantra."
The reality is what Yogani has said, "Clearly we must surrender to something, even if it is to our own innate potential to live a freer and happier life."
So then, does anyone wish to discuss the following, quote:
Almost any object can be used as the basis for concentration. Once you have selected an object, you should use the same object in your practice day after day. The object should come to your attention spontaneously. For some people the objects appears by itself in the form of a vision or a dream. This is the best form of natural selection. Other people, however, will have to find a suitable object for themselves. To assist these people, a very comprehensive list of suitable objects has been compiled... Even if you do not find a suitable object in this list, it will spark off something in your own mind or imagination, so that later on the correct symbol [or object, e.g. beeja mantra, yantra, mandala, nadis, prana] will come to you spontaneously. This will probably happen at a time when you are completely relaxed.
Do you force-feed yourself the practice suggested by another, or do you find truth in your own wilderness? Is "Truth a pathless land," as Krishnamurti suggested?
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Nov 07 2008 09:12:06 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2008 : 6:26:32 PM
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Etherfish said:
David - He came across badly not because of that page, but the stuff Vil found on his autobiography page:
Point taken.
I was also told by Spirit and the Masters that on earth as of the year 2004, there were 50 beings who had achieved the 14th to 15th initiation.
Oh dear. Well, the burden of proof is on him that this revelation by "Spirit and the Masters" is not in his imagination.
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 01:52:43 AM
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newpov
I believe that "Truth" is a pathless land, as Krishnamurti has said.
Jesus followed his own "pattern", same as Buddha and others. One has to choose to be a sheep or an eagle. Leaders are eagles, no matter if they don't have sheeps. Its a hard work for an eagle to lead sheeps. Better its to fly alone in the sky and watch everything from above.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by newpov
Hi all,
Simplification comes eventually to everyone, though one might have slipped into 110 or more pitfalls.
Anthem among others might agree with Dharana Darshan, page 12, quote:
In yoga, by focusing all the faculties at one point, we concentrate and relax the mind. Instead of a hundred things happening simultaneously, perhaps ten things will happen and ninety percent of our faculties will be at one point. This is the concept of dharana, the aspect of mental training in yoga.
What could be the biggest pitfall of all? Why is it that some are unsatisfied with the "I am" mantra, for example? Here's what one serious student of yoga has said, "I think Yogani's practices are just great. It may just be me, but I don't personally resonate with the "I am" mantra."
The reality is what Yogani has said, "Clearly we must surrender to something, even if it is to our own innate potential to live a freer and happier life."
So then, does anyone wish to discuss the following, quote:
Almost any object can be used as the basis for concentration. Once you have selected an object, you should use the same object in your practice day after day. The object should come to your attention spontaneously. For some people the objects appears by itself in the form of a vision or a dream. This is the best form of natural selection. Other people, however, will have to find a suitable object for themselves. To assist these people, a very comprehensive list of suitable objects has been compiled... Even if you do not find a suitable object in this list, it will spark off something in your own mind or imagination, so that later on the correct symbol [or object, e.g. beeja mantra, yantra, mandala, nadis, prana] will come to you spontaneously. This will probably happen at a time when you are completely relaxed.
Do you force-feed yourself the practice suggested by another, or do you find truth in your own wilderness? Is "Truth a pathless land," as Krishnamurti suggested?
newpov
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2008 : 09:03:23 AM
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quote:
Better it is to fly alone in the sky and watch everything from above.
This resounds with me. Flying at altitude, an eagle with eyes to see may spot and pick up seeds of personal value from other teachings or traditions. Yogani was eclectic, wasn't he? Is there a lesson here for the rest of us?
Pranayama and meditation, the two wings of the eagle which enable him to see the seeds below on other paths?
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Nov 08 2008 09:36:05 AM |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2008 : 02:04:05 AM
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newpov
I think each one of us are *eclectic* in some way. Its impossible not to be. I mean I know many christians that are buddhists and practice other different methods, same with jews or whatever. I think Jesus was eclectic also, if he was in India as have been told (in books)
Pranayama is very important, and for me Kechari is also very important, and mudras. For others it can be other things. Mantras are important but are needless, we don't need them if we know how to meditate, but we are still learning (at least me) and I think this is a good system to follow, till we grow a little bit.
I've been in another sites and they only teach to surrender, and this is the only place that teach how to meditate, and that's great.
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by newpov
quote:
Better it is to fly alone in the sky and watch everything from above.
This resounds with me. Flying at altitude, an eagle with eyes to see may spot and pick up seeds of personal value from other teachings or traditions. Yogani was eclectic, wasn't he? Is there a lesson here for the rest of us?
Pranayama and meditation, the two wings of the eagle which enable him to see the seeds below on other paths?
newpov
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110 pitfalls to enlightenment
