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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 05:21:58 AM
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I woke up today with the longing......and the sound.
The sound is always here (the full pitch of middle F).....it is always audible......to me, it is the "sound" of the shine.
But the longing.....it varies in intensity.
The tendency to start analyzing it is still here.....so I have to be very alert so that this tendency is nipped in the bud.....or else I will spiral down into mind trouble.
Other mornings I wake up....and the heart is so full of love.....for no reason at all.
Whenever the love is felt very strongly.......I have noticed that right before it increases in tenderness....there will be a period of intense longing
And I cannot say that this longing is not painful. It is......to the point where I can almost not bear it.
This morning was like this.....
I wake up......and all is filled with the longing.....every cell.....all of space..in the room, outside, all of it.....is this painful longing......
When it is like this...I cry...and cry......the heart is breaking.....so all morning was spent crying......and I don't allow myself to go with the thoughts that want to draw the attention away from the longing......even though the longing would be less then...the pain would be less if energy is on thoughts.....but I have gone with the thoughts before so I know it is counterproductive.....the whole dynamic of it takes much longer then.....because if inner fight is created....I am split....and I need all of me to be able to bear...and to be intimate with it......so I stay with the longing....after all...the longing is the fact that is here.
And the crying is for no reason at all too......I can't help myself..
I have no knowledge of that which I long for....there is no image....no texture......
.......just this great nothingness........that I don't understand.......
But after this post yesterday:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4614
after the click inside...
I could let go....in a deeper way
And this morning....after the crying.....I sat in silence at my kitchen table......just the one candle burning...and the hum of the fridge.....and the full sound of F....And right here I understood that it will always be like this. I have harboured the idea that the longing would vanish once I am stable in the silence.
But who says so ?
The longing......is the call.....and if I am not called....then I will not go deeper, will I.....
So here this idea dropped.....
And when the crying subsided.....there was just the quietness....the nothingness....
And a while later the love is streaming again.......and I looked at the presence in the room.....I looked at that which is not visible yet still so substantial.......
and there was simply no separation.....
As if it was the first time I became aware of myself.
And yet...this too has happened before.
It is always new like that.
So it turns out that........
Longing is Grace
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 09:14:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Longing is Grace
Yes.. that is how I experience it.
When we fall in love we feel this intense longing, pain in our hearts when we are with our beloved.. we say.. "I love you so much it hurts".. Our minds grab that feeling and associate it with the person. We believe that experience can be duplicated .. that love .. that intensity can be experienced only when in the presence of the other person.. so our minds try to find a way to hold on and grab on to every experience so that it can "own" and "keep" that feeling forever. Altho the other person may have triggered that.. the love arises in us.. this is divine grace.. it cannot be controlled or duplicated by the mind.. it needs to be set free.. to flow.. you cannot bottle up divine love.. you cannot keep it.. you cannot own it.. you can only experience it.. and be taken by it.
It took me a long time to realize, the intense pain I felt.. the intense longing.. was Ma's love flowing through me.. it is so vast.. so intense.. that the mind associates it as pain, and the crying happens. Tears of gratitude really. For the longest time I thought it was painful emotions arising in me.. that needed to be purified.. but one day while I sat with it in meditation.. I realized it was divine love.. something the mind/body cannot comprehend.. so huge.. so beyond the mind that all the mind can do is attach a label that it understands... And when the mind moves out of the way.. all you can experience is the vibrant, alive silence.. moving thru every cell in your body.. till there is nothing. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 09:38:05 AM
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Yes......so beautiful, Shanti, thank you.
I have walked along the river now........and when I came back......I sat still in the sofa.......just.....being in rest with it.....
And I see how all the years of the past always ment the same thing....everything always brought me here.
And you are right - years back - when the longing started, I would always also asosciate it with someone....I did not see nothingness then...so how can we know? It takes time.....
But now......everything is different......and the longing is for that which I cannot put words to....other than nothingness.
And when sitting on the sofa right now.....I suddenly remembered what it reminds me most of...this still, still inner wonder.....being all ears, knowing that inside - inside my very self - was something that will always come to be.....
It is the exact same feeling that I had the instant I understood that I was pregnant with my daughters. It is that kind of preciousness.....nothing to say about it......but this is close: I am pregnant.....just immense gratefulness.....wonder.......
and a tender, tender love...... |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 09:56:51 AM
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Yes.. I know the feeling.. impregnated by the seed of consciousness. 
There was something else I realised a few days ago.. I have always felt close to Ma.. but have never seen her.. and that was the biggest thing for me.. I need to see Ma.. in all her glory.. the beautiful shining form of Ma that so many have been blessed to see... But the other day.. I saw her.. not as a form.. but as a knowing.. and I had to laugh... I have been looking for her with her eyes.. Rumi's words came to mind:
"I have lived on the lip of insanity,
wanting to know reasons,
knocking on a door.
It opens.
I've been knocking from the inside!"
~Rumi
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 10:06:24 AM
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I just remembered.....and it made me smile.....:
This summer - the bleeding stopped. No more periods since July.
I have always been like clockwork....except for when mamma died last year and I bled for weeks......and then it stopped for 2 months and came back.......so I went to the doctor.......and according to the tests.....I am smiling because I could tell the doctor thought I was wondering if I could have "safe sex" or not.....so he said "the tests show you are still very fertile" (I thought either you were fertile or not....what is this "very"??) - meaning that menopause is out of the question. So I just settled with that.
The bleeding may come back - but it feels different this time......
anyway.....I had to smile.....when connecting it to the feeling of being pregnant.....
(And in case anyone should wonder:
I am NOT pregnant with another child. If I were..it would be a miracle....sort of like a virgin birth .....)
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 10:10:37 AM
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That is beautiful, Shanti
How wonderful....that you are aware
The tender love.......maybe I am mistaken....but it is genderfull to me.....as in both mother and father...... |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 12:04:42 PM
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Two thoughts come to mind from reading the posts about longing and the rise of intense emotion.
The first in my case, is that the longing comes when I am away from the heart somehow on some level (sometimes subconsciously at first). From my perspective, it is usually a subtle mental searching or seeking or desire which pulls me away and creates a longing for something I think I don't have. When in the heart, there is no longing as I am what I've been looking for. There is rest.
The other is just to share a recent realization that applies to the idea that there is a limit to how much emotion or feeling one can "take" or "handle". I've recently noticed that there is no limit, that I have mistakenly carried around the idea, for who knows how long, that I could only handle so much sadness, frustration, anger, love, ecstasy etc. Once I removed the idea that I would burst, or overload, or die or need to act out etc, I saw that I was in fact limitless and that all these could easily be played out in their entirety within.
Maybe these perspectives will help,
All the best,
A
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 3:29:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
The other is just to share a recent realization that applies to the idea that there is a limit to how much emotion or feeling one can "take" or "handle". I've recently noticed that there is no limit, that I have mistakenly carried around the idea, for who knows how long, that I could only handle so much sadness, frustration, anger, love, ecstasy etc. Once I removed the idea that I would burst, or overload, or die or need to act out etc, I saw that I was in fact limitless and that all these could easily be played out in their entirety within.
Maybe these perspectives will help,
All the best,
A
Yes that is what I was trying to say in my post..It took me a long time to realize, the intense pain I felt.. the intense longing.. was Ma's love flowing through me.. it is so vast.. so intense.. that the mind associates it as pain, and the crying happens. Tears of gratitude really. For the longest time I thought it was painful emotions arising in me.. that needed to be purified.. but one day while I sat with it in meditation.. I realized it was divine love.. something the mind/body cannot comprehend.. so huge.. so beyond the mind that all the mind can do is attach a label that it understands... And when the mind moves out of the way.. all you can experience is the vibrant, alive silence.. moving thru every cell in your body.. till there is nothing.
You say it so much better .. but the experience is the same.. when the limitations of the mind are not there.. there is not limit to what can be experienced.. and it can be experienced without a label (of sorrow, unhappiness, pain, etc.) |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2008 : 5:00:03 PM
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Hi Anthem and Shanti
Just one addition:
There is a clear dynamic between the longing and the increase in the gentleness of the love. The love gets more and more tender in my experience. The longing has to do with being able to bear more and more of it. That is why I say it will continue like this...no end. And this is such grace! Because then the love will always be birthed. As I will always be pregnant.....
Also - i don't experience either the longing or the tender love as an emotion. It is something that is uncaused (it often happens when I am present and not identified with mind).....and when it comes it is unbroken. It is an unbroken presence of it....not at all triggered by mental images or lables. In my case it diminishes when I go off with mind...and it stays strong when I am just present. If I ran with mind however, the longing could stay with me for days and weeks. While as when I am present with it...it won't last long.....hours at the most.
So I take it to be the opening. All of it is due to that. Like a contraction in a birth process......if no contractions...no opening...and no birth.
And since we are here to birth more and more of it.....then may the longing come whenever needed.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2008 : 2:14:46 PM
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Hi Katrine,
I was randomly reading a few chapters in Emptiness Dancing by Adyashanti and came across a very interesting chapter on Illusion.. I will share a paragraph from it.. but you can read the whole chapter. How it fits here is not very clear to me.. it just came to me to post it here... and may explain the longing feeling related to heart opening and the void, the Shiva experience (http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4520), the shine (shakti).. the emptiness dancing.. the stillness in motion.
quote:
From the chapter Illusion in the book Emptiness Dancing by Adyashanti
I think that for realization to be complete it has to really hit on three levels- head, heart, and gut - because you can have a very clear, enlightened mind, which you'll know in a deep way, but your being wont be dancing. Then, when the heart starts to open just like the mind, your being starts to dance. Then everything comes alive. And when your gut opens up, there is that deep, deep, unfathomable stability where that opening, who is you, just died into transparency. It's become the absolute. You are That.
There is an expression, "solid emptiness". In the mind, the emptiness isn't so solid. It's very space-like, ethereal, and that's enlightenment on the level of mind. Enlightenment on the level of heart is an aliveness, a sense that all of me is dancing. The enlightenment on the level of gut is an emptiness that is similar to that of the mind, but it's like a mountain, a transparent mountain. All of these are expressions in the human being of the Truth.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2008 : 3:48:45 PM
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Thank you, Shanti
Yes...that resonates a lot....
I wonder if it is not possible to go a bit "back and forth" between these "stages" that Adyashanti describes.....
The intimacy that I spoke of in the Hole and the Whole post (the link in your post above).......the fact that the beingness is all.....and nothing what so ever is separating us from it since we are it.....this fact that I am........it is this that also informs. It is the agent that transmits the information from the deepest unmanifest. So - when all my attention is on the simple fact that I am - this is when there is further direct understanding.
It has taken long to see the information properly linked with the fact that I am........since it is without words and very subtle....but....once you stay put in the fact that you are......then what is is revealed in a wordless manner.....
And yet - I know nothing. It is not something to remember either.
All I knew is useless here. So much knowledge that had to be let go of.
All I know is still useless here. It will always be like this. It is useless for understanding THIS.
What is revealed is not "how to do things"....or "how did this come about"......or "what are the colors of your aura".....or "what does an angle look like".......
What is revealed is just a very simple facticity.
And there are no questions in it. No answers either.
The facticity of Being is substantial.
And yet - it is nothing.
And yet - it shines.
I don't for the life of me understand any of it  . But I enjoy the taste of that fact immensly. And I am just a novice......imagine the years of training in order to taste and understand a good wine.....I am such a rookie....
From the depth of it streams love. Not the emotion....not like a wave that comes and goes. The unbroken fact of love.
And today I sat with it.......the Joy of being able to love all I want......I can love all I want.......all the love within is allowed....it doesn't shrink because of "not being loved in return". The blessing is in the fact of it. Here. Right where I am.
It is the love in your own heart that truly fulfills.
This does not mean that I won't enjoy the love streaming through another form. On the contrary. Coming together in a sharing that resonates is so beautiful. To be able to look at you....and know for a fact that I love ....is very precious. And when there is resonance......it enhances the love in both. It is a sacred communion.
And I sense the grace of not "draining" another human being of his/her life force because I am dead to my own.
What a blessing that is.
I pray I will honor it.
I pray I will continue to evolve in depth.
I pray I will always remain a rookie.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2008 : 03:18:00 AM
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Hi folks. I've just returned from a pregnancy boot camp! Gosh... women were lying all over the place giving birth to the Cosmos itself!!! Beautiful! (No, I was not one of them.)
I just wanted to share some tantric perspectives on the longing... There is a knowing here that there is a deep inner longing to make love, to close the cirquit. I can only speak of my own experience and realizations throughout the latest weeks.
The Nothingness or Absolute or That
exploded into Two - the masculine and feminine principles, we may call them yin-yang, shiva-shakti or The Shine and Consciousness, Life force and Being.
When going into form, consciousness divides into separate beings in separate bodies. And we fall asleep. We go into the mystery of forgetting who we are. Only to be able to go back home again... when we wake up. The longing home is tremendous.
To awake and find home is a wonder. We can stay awake and have inner love making going on and live a great life as stillness in action in duality. But there will be another longing... the longing to unite also in physical form.
When yang in manifested form comes together in love making with yin in manifested form, the universe is in pure celebration of that conscious act. It closes the cirquit and brings that direct experience back to Source and everything is One again on all levels. From the most dense frequence to the highest frequence.
I had the privilige to meet a man during the retreat pure enough to empty himself to the degree that SHE was shown in a way I have never experienced before. We had the opportunity to explore this dance between man and woman in a space held pure and clean.
We danced the dance as stillness and movement in the most delicious and precious way. Words are not able to describe it. When the man is empty enough he - being consciousness - will hold her fully and completely and feel the woman as movement inside of him, and she, when being completely held, will move... oh... she will move so delicately and tender to GIVE and GIVE in eternity herself as waves of The Ocean, the experience of movement, back to him so that he in manifested form can sense and perceive his beloved. He will surf the waves and enjoy the ride. It is only on Earth this is possible. It's a precious gift to BE here and to be able to experience through sense perception, and we are here as men and women, designed to make love. We long to make love. Stars explode when it happens. The Universe sings. The yin-yang sign shows that dance, they spiral and spiral around eachother within the circle ...
In that meeting we become androgynous and One. But in order to get there, we must fully go into polarity. I can't get around being in a female body. I am a manifestation of Shakti. Man is a manifestation of Shiva. When they consciously meet on all levels... The longing is no more. It is complete.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 11:29:15 AM
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Thanks for sharing, emc.
Lovely to hear of your coming together and rising in joy .
quote:
I can't get around being in a female body. I am a manifestation of Shakti. Man is a manifestation of Shiva. When they consciously meet on all levels... The longing is no more. It is complete.
Yes...on that level....for the time being.
But my experience is also that it is possible to go beyond the fact of being in a female body. The awareness ......the nothingness this body is a content of (and is permeated by) - this that knows that it is not content and at the same time witnesses the content - this is free of gender. It is before gender.
Shiva and Shakti can unite in this one body. Independant of "another". It is just as physical as being with a male principal in a body. It is just that all is within.
There is no need to unite physically in this peace and joy. But there is great joy in being able to express the love and joy that is this fact...the nothingness. And there are so many ways to express it!
And you are absolutely right - the longing is not here when resting as whole and complete within. I gather the great longing I experience comes when I have "moved". Even though no thoughts are there...I have somehow still moved....a layer up from the depth. I understand now how subtle that motion can be. Thanks to the longing there is deeper understanding. As in where to rest. Nothing else.
I just had to say this - since your post implies that "another" is needed to feel complete in this manner.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 12:47:21 PM
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Katrine, I understand completely what you are saying. I don't know of your latest experiences with Man, I only know where you were when I met you in Ireland. I can't tell you how it is for you, only that from my point of understanding I am sharing the highest form of tantric wisdom with you that I have come to realize in my own experience. From this perspective, it is perfectly ok to be enlightened by your "own" so to speak, as an individualized being. The marriage takes place inside as you say. And then the realizations can go deeper and deeper... the journey never ends and the experiences can expand into even greater knowings of the potentials of being and becoming in this physical existence. Tantra is ultimately all about man and woman uniting in physical bodies.
When you get the experience of uniting ALSO in physical bodies there will be "one love on four legs" and that is a unique potential we have here on earth. According to tantric wisdom, that's the very purpose and passion of the Mystery. Men and women are designed to be attracted to eachother...
However this wonder of union will not happen if the woman or man is not totally present! If an awake woman is with a man who is not fully present, but still has self-consideration and attachment to his personal space in him, it will not happen. Then she will feel no difference between her wonderful being with herself or being with him during love making, since he cannot be Man enough to open her fully. She will not surrender to Him since she will not Trust him fully. To surrender to Truth in form of a physical man who can BE that Truth... is the dot over the I... If the man and woman are on very different levels of awakening they might even repell from eachother due to the differnce in frequence...
When both the man and woman are utterly True, tantric union occurs. And a new journey begins... beyond imagination.
But don't believe my words. Go see for yourself. I only suggest that there is a reason why tantrikas are so passionate about physical love making between man and woman... |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 6:34:49 PM
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Hi emc
quote:
To surrender to Truth in form of a physical man who can BE that Truth... is the dot over the I...
I agree
But so is also the joy of expressing the union that is already inside. And the expression can come in infinite ways. Also as a physical coming together. That is why I feel that a physical coming together is not something one will "pass away from". That one must "rise above" it. So long as you don't waste the sexual energy all is well. It is simply beautiful.
It is just that you can be independant of the other for that joy - that dot - that is all. There will be equally "deeper and deeper realizations". The journey continues within - both with him and "without" him.
quote:
I only suggest that there is a reason why tantrikas are so passionate about physical love making between man and woman...
I see that. It is also my experience that it is the surrender that is the most important - whether I am alone or with the other. One can surrender to the other even if the other isn't "totally aware"....it is enough that you are closely resonating. Because if one is aware, then he/she will see the other as that nothingness anyhow.....it is this that will be relating to itself. One can also "hold" the silence for one another like this.....if one is identified with mind....the other can be present. The next time it may be the other "holding" the silence for you. So yes - coming together as tantrikas is great.
We do not disagree on that
But isn't it great that you can evolve like this also on your own?
This is what the joining of ecstatic conductivity and silence results in: Independancy. You are whole on your own too. Even if you are in a female body without a physical man.
It does not mean you won't dance with another.
It just means that you can dance just as joyfully on your own too.
And the radiance will spread wide from both unions.
Then with him you are joy
And without him you are joy too.
Free
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 7:25:41 PM
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| you guys are absolutely smoking! |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 10:07:31 PM
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What you say doesn't ring True to me, Katrine. I just know that there is something very beautiful about two beings uniting in Love, so when you say:
"But isn't it great that you can evolve like this also on your own?"
I am from the depth of my knowing bound to repeat that I honestly think you can't. It takes two independent free beings to complete the tantric meeting in flesh.
"True friendship unites two souls so completely that they reflect the unity of Spirit and Its divine qualities. When you behold, assembled all at once beneath the canopy of your perfected universal friendship, the souls of the past, present, and future, the busy stars, the amoeba, the whippoorwill, the nightingale, the dumb stones, and the shining sea sands, then the friendship thirst of your heart wil be quenched forever. Then God's creation will ring with the emancipating song of all difference-dissolving celestial friendship."
/Swami Paramahamsa Yogananda |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 11:31:41 PM
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Why can't it be both? Independency AND two Souls united?
Personally I find that life always seems a little lacking if there is noone to share it with, but that's just me, and that's probably a flaw. But every great life question seems to involve a duality, and it would seem as if the great answer would need to somehow unite the two. I doubt this would be any different
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2008 : 05:35:49 AM
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Hi emc
quote:
I am from the depth of my knowing bound to repeat that I honestly think you can't. It takes two independent free beings to complete the tantric meeting in flesh.
Yes. I know you speak from experience, emc. And yes, the tantric meeting in flesh takes "two". The feminine and the masculine. Shiva and Shakti. These also exist in you alone. In your very flesh.
And you can unite the masculine and the feminine as a man joins with a woman. The result is the same.
But the unity itself - that are the divine qualities; which is what the tantric meeting is all about in the first place - it does not have to take two to experience it.
quote:
"True friendship unites two souls so completely that they reflect the unity of Spirit and Its divine qualities. When you behold, assembled all at once beneath the canopy of your perfected universal friendship, the souls of the past, present, and future, the busy stars, the amoeba, the whippoorwill, the nightingale, the dumb stones, and the shining sea sands, then the friendship thirst of your heart wil be quenched forever. Then God's creation will ring with the emancipating song of all difference-dissolving celestial friendship."
This does not exclude my experience - it simply describes the unity. I love the way he calls it "difference-dissolving" . That is exactly it - when stable as the nothingness.....nothing is separate from you. And it is this that you are. The nothingness dissolves every "otherness" in itself. Everything is taking place in you...as you......
Seeing the moon outside the window yesterday evening......it is outside the house, but it is not outside myself. The emotions, the thoughts, the sensations, the body, the kitchen, the house, the street, the cars, the other bodies, the sky, the stars, the moon, the physical space......everything is taking place inside. And when this aliveness is felt.....that is all there is. Outside/Inside.....everything dissolves....and the Joy/Love/Clarity/peace is what is left.
And absolutely no lack whatsoever.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2008 : 05:39:19 AM
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Hi Carson
quote:
Why can't it be both? Independency AND two Souls united?
Personally I find that life always seems a little lacking if there is noone to share it with, but that's just me, and that's probably a flaw.
It is not a flaw. On the contrary - that feeling of lack is what brings you home to yourself . This is the longing.
quote:
But every great life question seems to involve a duality, and it would seem as if the great answer would need to somehow unite the two.
Yes. When the question dissolve because you know you are the answer.
Emc:
A tantric relationship can bring you home to yourself.
So can deep meditation, pranayama and all the other practises.
For the latter you are independant of the "other"
And in order to stay stable as Self - when the "other" is not around - it is crucial to be independant also.
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Edited by - Katrine on Nov 05 2008 06:04:19 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2008 : 07:59:13 AM
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Yes this resonates with me. Many years ago I had a fiance and used to experience being with god when we made love. But I knew she wasn't as evolved as me, and just thought of it as "good sex". When we broke up I was depressed for quite some time, although I didn't know it. But I wasn't missing her as much as what we had together. Since then I have matured and resigned myself to thinking the relationship was a once in a lifetime experience. And so I have decided I need to find God by myself even though it may never be the same as it was with her.
But upon reading this topic I have realized that all that love I felt came from me, not outside me. So this is beginning to contribute to my bhakti.
So EMC, the reason to develop the stability of being independent is relationships won't always be there, and if that person is everything to you, you can find yourself in a deep hole to climb out of when they're gone.
Usually that depends on the circumstances of their being gone, but that is all invented in our mind.
Thank you guys for this thread!
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 02:36:54 AM
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Katrine (and Etherfish), We are talking around eachother all the time. What you say is correct. That is my STARTING POINT of my message, and you wish to turn it back around all the time as if I didn't get it... You don't need to say it again! It's perfectly clear. I'm trying to say something else...
The tantric relationship is not only the MEANS to know Unity. In AYP tantric practices are a method and a means to find unity. I'm talking about what happens AFTER this unity is experienced, as Katrine describes it, independent of another being. THEN physical lovemaking is the CELEBRATION, AFTER the marriage has taken place INSIDE. There is no dependency whatsoever!
Even though we have reached "I AM ALL", and the inside and outside has totally lost its meaning, because the 'I' has expanded to include the whole cosmos and beyond, both THIS and THAT... we still have to live with the fact that there are a bunch of individualized beings here on earth at the same time! No way around it. We are One as Many!
quote:
But the unity itself - that are the divine qualities; which is what the tantric meeting is all about in the first place - it does not have to take two to experience it.
Katrine, marrying the Shiva-Shakti inside is not what the tantric meeting is about in the first place, it's the first part of it. We do not engage in Love for our own experiences or to reach deeper divine unity for ourselves. We can experience Unity on our own. But to BE that unity in existence it takes two manifested bodies, because we are the manifested essence of either Shiva or Shakti. The tantric meeting is about bringing harmony and Love to the Earth. When outpouring divine love exists between man and woman in physical manifestation it will have imprints on the whole Mankind, and on how we all relate to Mother Earth. That's what's tantra is about. It's not only a method to experience Divine Unity for our own sake, to become enlightened and be free of personal suffering. The manifested tantric meeting is for the sake of the Evolution here on Earth.
Since relationships are the trickiest things, there is a great thing happening when two beings can stay True together and hold the Tantric meeting alive in every moment. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 05:50:51 AM
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Hi emc,
quote:
However this wonder of union will not happen if the woman or man is not totally present! If an awake woman is with a man who is not fully present, but still has self-consideration and attachment to his personal space in him, it will not happen. Then she will feel no difference between her wonderful being with herself or being with him during love making, since he cannot be Man enough to open her fully. She will not surrender to Him since she will not Trust him fully. To surrender to Truth in form of a physical man who can BE that Truth... is the dot over the I... If the man and woman are on very different levels of awakening they might even repell from eachother due to the differnce in frequence...
It's been very interesting reading your posts on tantric sex. I have to be honest with you, I do find them a little disturbing. It doesn't sound so much like tantric sex to me, it sounds more like a kind of quasi-spiritualized form of hetero sub/ dom sexual practice being sold as tantric sex. It looks like the woman gets to play sub and the man gets to play dom. What exactly does "being man enough to open her fully mean?".
I think you started another thread on healing relationship patterns. I wonder if you are really healing relationship patterns, or just continuing the same old (abusive) relationship patterns under a cloak of spiritual terminology?
Just for the record, both men and women contain yin/ yang energies, and both contain shiva and shakti, and the union of siva and shakti takes place inside an individual human being, not between two human beings in bed together, however fantastic it is.
Christi |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2008 : 08:29:16 AM
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I'm sorry, I'm probably using a different vocabulary than what is used here normally. And I'm probably a bit soggy in the head after having burned so much energies lately. Forgive my insensitive babbling.
In short, what I'm saying is that:
.............Source............
...Yin/Shakti........Yang/Shiva...
...........EXISTENCE.............
...........manifests.............
.....WOMAN..............MAN......
...........multiplicity...........
woman, woman, woman, man, man, man
All forms are Her, Yin, Shakti, energy so MAN would not exist without Her, although in essence, he is Shiva!
All is Consciousness, Him, Yang, Shiva, so WOMAN would not exist without Him, although in essence, she is Shakti!
(Symbolised in the yin/yang as a dot of white in the black and a dot of black in the white).
When in separation - no True intimacy. Everything on the outside (what we see in the world) is a direct reflection of our insides, of our current state of mind. Very much reflected in the relationships between men and women, Intimate Relationships are very rare.
We meditate, cultivate sexual energies and do practices so that Shiva and Shakti may clean the house for their wedding! As we go from separated state to Awake state: marriage occurs! Weee! 
....Awake woman.....Awake man...........
......Individualized beings.............
and we can STAY there, and be single and be very happy, complete and content, as Katrine says. But they:
.....are still in manifested form.......
Essence of Shakti... Essence of Shiva...
........representing, or being..........
....Everything.......Nothing............
.....so, if physical meeting in flesh....
...........Evenorything................
.............Source....................
..........As One Being..........
..........Sacred relationship..........
....not Two individualized beings having tantric sex.... |
Edited by - emc on Nov 13 2008 2:10:07 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 06:26:09 AM
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Hi emc
quote:
I'm sorry, I'm probably using a different vocabulary than what is used here normally.
I don't think it's a problem of vocabulary. I have spent enough time over the past few years councelling traumatized ex-students of Bernie Prior to be reasonably familiar with the vocabulary.
When two people come together in sexual lovemaking, they come together as two souls (Siva) manifest in two physical forms (Shakti). So two women making love come together as two souls (Siva) in manifest form (Shakti). The same is true for two men coming together in lovemaking on the physical plane, and of a man and a woman coming together. No difference.
And upon awakening, everything is one. No longer seperate, no longer man and woman, but one.
Christi |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 08:19:32 AM
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So no need to go further then. Everyone is happy with their own Truth. As usual.
I'm sorry to hear about your traumatized friends. Then I understand more of the tone in your posts. |
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The Longing
