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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 09 2010 : 02:37:03 AM
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| That gave me a headache before I could get to the last two minutes. |
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eyeknownothing
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2012 : 01:35:51 AM
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Carson et al,
I might be a little late, but I thought I could definitely add something to this discussion.
I don't think heavy, intense music is intrinsically bad for people or animals. All the world consists of the interplay of positive and negative, yang and yin. It is our fear-based judgment thoughts that attach a "bad" meaning to an energy when we choose not to accept something as part of our universe. Many times, fear responses arise when a person encounters an intense onslaught of the unknown, because it breaks a conditioned ego-pattern which is effectively an ego-kill that forces us to the individuate. Such things of course then free us from the bonds of our ego and allow us to incorporate a broader spectrum of the previously unknown universe. The spiritual purpose of creepiness and intense, "violent" music. I think it's very good that you're so comfortable with this experience, because there's truly nothing to fear and no need to attach a victim response to anything the world puts in front of oneself.
On the other hand, intense energy and new experiences can certainly cause physical problems in beings unaccustomed to those higher voltages: the rabbit heart attack, or when people vomit or run to the toilet when they aren't used to some high-quality bud or a mind-blowing experience or idea. It can also be a problem when so many people's instinctual first reaction to new levels of intensity is to view it is some kind of energetic assault and return the violence, or simply react with a closed base chakra self-defense response because the system is unable to sublimate the energy to higher centers.
So I think mercy and putting oneself in others' shoes is important to temper the strength of the energy. We can certainly dole out the dosage of electrification carefully so as to energize and promote the evolution of the beings around us without setting them ablaze or the like.
Any thoughts? |
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Leo17
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2012 : 12:02:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by stevenbhow
I've already had this discussion with Cosmic, but I'm pretty sure the Chili Peppers are experiencing Kriyas in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISIF...next_from=PL
I know they've all done their share of drugs, but I don't know if any of them practice Yoga or not. I know Anthony has met the Dalia Lama a few times. The lyrics, while fairly simple, I would say are definitely about self-inquiry.
Carson,
Interesting stuff about the animals. I feel that animals can really sense my energy as well. I don't think I am at your level of ecstatic conductivity but there is certainly a connection.
I remember hearing Stuart Wilde talk about how dogs absorb our "crap".
I've also wondered about RHCP and their music being highly spiritual. I bought their greatest hits album and the music struck a chord in my soul like nothing else. Was unbelievable. Here's two that really speak to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kT5w27YxyI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XcN12uVHeQ
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2012 : 10:33:32 PM
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Namaste Leo,
I've posted this somewhere before (a few years ago, maybe as cosmic_troll) but this song really resonated with me as being spiritual. Being about God, actually.
Don't Forget Me
RHCP played a meaningful, vital role in my spiritual awakening in 2001.
Hope you enjoy the song.
Much Love [img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2012 : 10:40:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmic
RHCP played a meaningful, vital role in my spiritual awakening in 2001.
I don't share this often, but God speaks to me through this song:
Under the Bridge
It ALWAYS plays when something significant (spiritually) is happening in my life.
Love |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
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Leo17
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2012 : 10:12:08 PM
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Hi Cosmic. I really like Don't Forget Me too. Great tune. Yeah RHCP is definitely spiritual to me, speaks to my soul.
Congrats Maheswari on your tickets, I'm jealous! I've always wanted to see them live but never had the chance.
I remember when I moved away from home to Florida by myself, i was drinking heavily down there, experimenting with psychedelics, and jamming to RHCP everyday. Even though I was numbed from 'reality' most of the time, it felt like it was an important part of my journey and I spent it with RHCP everyday.
Be well :) |
Edited by - Leo17 on Sep 11 2012 10:32:38 PM |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2013 : 05:23:34 AM
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Hi CarsonZi,
Thank you for raising this most interesting topic.
I love music and singing and still find myself stunningly surprised at how profoundly it affects my whole being in myriad ways.
As this is an old topic, have you come up with new insights?
Perhaps this could add to the explanation you offered:
Activities that tend to enhance presence, absorbtion and captivate one's full attention tend to have special uplifting effects.
There's so many qualities to music and sound that these can seduce our senses to increasingly becoming absorbed and eventually transcending the sensory.
Krishna's play of the flute seduced thousand gopis into transcending the sensual joy that had taken them to follow his divine play.
This absorption can come through a fascination for beauty, harmony, but also, as you describe, the full intensity of emotion and beyond. The intensity is very much present in bhakti singing especially when the singers have cultivated devotion for their ishta. But equally so there is intensity in the most hard core music whether it is towards light or darkness.
A little off topic but related to the above:
This intensity effect seems to be at play in any undertaking of a seemingly very challenging task requiring full dedication and awareneness, though these may come effortlessly by themselves, adding to the surrendered transcendence feeling.
Hence the high experienced in sports activities or just in overcoming a situation that is challenging for the specific individual (eg. overcoming a fear, whether it is a fear that many people have or not).
As you observed, breath is very much affected in all these circumstances and reflecting the profound effects on our nervous system. Undertaking an activity that affects our nervous system deeply will affect the breath. Or we can directly change the breath and affect the nervous system.
Love :)
 Sat  |
Edited by - Omsat on Jan 24 2013 06:36:47 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2013 : 01:37:20 AM
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Hi Omsat,
No real new insights except that I believe that it is no coincidence that when angels are experienced, they are often singing. 
Love!
Carson |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2013 : 07:40:59 AM
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mmmmm
Lucky you; coming to hear such lovely beauty
May more of this enJoyment be blessed upon you!
Love :)
Sat
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Hi Omsat,
No real new insights except that I believe that it is no coincidence that when angels are experienced, they are often singing.
Love!
Carson
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2013 : 11:23:31 PM
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Dear Carson,
Yes, you are going crazy. LOL! 
I didn't realize this was such an old thread; I didn't see it before, thought I would add my 2 cents.
I suspect it is a pranayama effect, as you stated, as well as possibly tying in with your past experiences of singing praise songs. I have experienced that intensity sometimes, although mainly with songs that have a deep spiritual meaning for me. It is more common when I am at home, in the shower or outside by the pond, etc., as opposed to when I am on stage at karaoke, where I feel the need to be more "in control." I did experience it very much when I was in choir years ago.
With regard to "dark/heavy" music, I LOVE it! and no conflict at all. My favorites are older and a bit more tame than yours, e.g. Iron Maiden, Dio, Ozzy, Metallica, Black Label Society ("Stillborn" blows me away), Dream Theater, and yes, LOVE RHCP and "Under the Bridge" is special to me because it was playing on the radio, me singing along loudly, as I drove out of California and left my life there behind... "Heavy" music makes me happy and cheerful, e.g. "Jump in the Fire" or "The 4 Horsemen" by Metallica. I DESPISE the "new age" nicey-nice music that is normally recommended for meditation. Screw that! Metal cuts right through the bullsh*t and takes me to the center immediately. I love doing asana with loud metal and feeling the lead guitar (like, a Randy Rhodes solo) searing thru my nervous system, etc. People tell me my metal music is "negative." To each their own.
As for zapping the animals, that does not surprise me at all. My animals and even wild animals respond to whatever state I am in at the time. And I would not rule out the possibility that it could be too overwhelming and even stop a heart, perhaps. I wonder if you could start one back up after it stopped, with that kind of energy? |
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2013 : 1:38:53 PM
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I've sung in choirs since I was 5 (now 60), with a few breaks in my life. Now I'm in one that does the biggest "warhorses" of classical choral music, both sacred and secular, with orchestra and often a gigantic organ behind me. Harmony has always energized me, and in some cases to sing the high notes. Breath control and technique are critical to singing at a high level, but I don't think singer's breathing is quite the same as pranayama. Having just started pranayama I can't say too much about it, but it certainly feels different from choral singing. For one thing, proper breathing for singing in the Bel Canto technique does not involve intentional chest expansion. It does involve significant expansion below the diaphragm, with visible expansion in the back near the kidneys.
It also does not involve drawing a thin stream along the spine, slowly filling up from the lower abdomen, then expanding the chest when the diaphragm is pierced. As a singer you're going to do everything much too quickly to apply that precise discipline.
But I do think singing is a strong action that requires inner quiet. That's just my experience of it. I don't know if it's affected my spiritual life, but it does make me feel a lot better every week. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1731 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2014 : 07:10:27 AM
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Hello Carson
I have come across this topic about singing after reading another one of yours called “Coping with excessive energy”. As it happens, the two posts contain a fair bit of information about you and I had this hypothesis pop into my mind - Is it possible that your energy build up is the outcome of a rule stored in your subconscious mind, which might sound something like this 'I am being good/my life is on the right track when I suppress some of my impulses/energy”
What led me to this idea:
- Music is an opportunity for catharsis,right? – the reason why you enjoy the 'angry' music is because it allows you to let off some emotions you are not allowing yourself to express in other ways
- You seem to have taken some good turn in your life e.g. stop smoking pot etc by applying will power and deciding you are not going to act on some of your impulses.
Of course we all do this on occasions, but it is also possible to take it to a different level i.e. transform it into a life strategy. If this rule sit there in the subconscious mind and gets applied to all kinds impulses/energy, it might also be repressing the energy you build up through yoga practices, hence the energy build-up symptoms.
Of course we could dismiss this as psychological ramblings or just me being nosey , but since the idea did pop into my mind, I thought the best thing to do is put it into your hands to do whatever you like with it.  |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2014 : 9:27:13 PM
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Hi BlueRaincoat,
Actually, what you are talking about here is something I came to a similar conclusion to some while back... I definitely have had challenges due to the subconscious belief that it was "right" to suppress natural instincts I had (like getting angry for example). In fact, a desire to smoke pot was one of the things I had been trying to suppress. I have been smoking pot for over 20 years, most of the time daily, and in an effort to be a "good yogi" I fought with myself over this for several years. Eventually I realized that fighting this was not just futile, but actually damaging, and I stopped trying to fight it. Since then I have actually gotten a medical marijuana card and I continue to smoke for several reasons and I find that I am enjoying my life more than ever.
I no longer struggle much with excess energy symptoms. I have (since the beginning of 2012) dropped any and all energy cultivation practices (totally not required nor helpful for me) and essentially all formal practices at all. My path now seems to be one of simply remaining aware of whatever is happening in the moment, watching how the body and mind react to life, identifying troublesome personal tendencies and learning to surrender in every aspect of living.
Thanks for thinking of me and taking the time to share with me.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Aug 04 2014 7:05:45 PM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1731 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2014 : 12:10:29 PM
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Hi Carson
I see... I discovered America then!  Kidding, of course you'd be the first to figure this out.
Thank you for sharing. I have been intensely curious about why some people get serious energy build-ups while others can carry on with their practice indefinitely. I knew you had dropped energy cultivation practices – you kindly answered a question I posted a while ago on one of Anthem's threads. I understand you took that turn in great part for the sake of those around you and I am deeply touched.
You've probably also realised the pot smoking itself very likely stems from the same self-censure/tendency to suppress, right? Because when you smoke pot the self-censure eases off and you are then allowing yourself to release whatever it is you suppress otherwise. A psychotherapist would probably look at how you relate to your internal Parent/Super-Ego. I think expanding inner silence should do it - when you finally get to the root of this self-censure you will lose interest in drugs and discover you could take up energy cultivation again should you wish to. I know it's way easier said than done but I'll offer my prayers for this  and wish you all the best whatever path you take. |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Aug 01 2014 12:35:50 PM |
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tua32581
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2014 : 2:23:14 PM
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| Hey Carson are you a fan of the Dillinger Escape Plan? if not I have a feeling you might like them. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2014 : 7:37:48 PM
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Hi BlueRaincoat,
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
Hi Carson
I see... I discovered America then! Kidding, of course you'd be the first to figure this out.
Thank you for sharing. I have been intensely curious about why some people get serious energy build-ups while others can carry on with their practice indefinitely. I knew you had dropped energy cultivation practices – you kindly answered a question I posted a while ago on one of Anthem's threads. I understand you took that turn in great part for the sake of those around you and I am deeply touched.
Yes, that was part of it, but my feeling at this point is that energy "cultivation," at least for me, was never necessary. Energy *directing* was very helpful for me (meaning developing a natural tendency for the energy to flow smoothly in the spinal channel) but I've never had a problem (at least not in this life) with a lack of energy (of any kind).
I've never thought about it before now, but I'm not sure how I could have directed the energy without cultivating it. Just bringing attention to the energy, which is obviously required in order to direct it, is energetically stimulating. If I could have done that I think I would have experienced less difficulty with the energetic aspect of awakening.
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
You've probably also realised the pot smoking itself very likely stems from the same self-censure/tendency to suppress, right?
It can, depending on the motivation for smoking. The advantages of being fully expressive/authentic come at a price and it's a balancing act trying to walk that line without becoming a "walking instinct" (sans present moment awareness). Smoking, for me, helps me both suss out that line and remain mindful not to fall off either side. That said I'm aware of the irony of requiring a "buffer" in order to "not buffer." Something that I anticipate will work itself out in it's own time
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
when you finally get to the root of this self-censure you will lose interest in drugs and discover you could take up energy cultivation again should you wish to.
Perhaps? Who knows. After more than 20 years of experimenting with altered states of consciousness I've found that I only have an increasing interest in drugs. Personally I find that how people define "drugs" is *very* subjective and I would put money, sex, tv, shopping, sugar, caffeine, spiritual ecstasy, etc etc in the "drugs" category. I don't really worry about whether or not I am using "drugs" I mostly concern myself with whether or not I am "bypassing" no matter the medium used.
Regarding going back to energy cultivation I don't see that in my future but anything is possible. 
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2014 : 7:38:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tua32581
Hey Carson are you a fan of the Dillinger Escape Plan? if not I have a feeling you might like them.
Hell yeah I like Dillinger!! |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2014 : 11:30:34 PM
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| I'm reminded of the perennial question which Enya poses with her majestic voice, and that is: How can I keep from singing? |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1731 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2014 : 6:09:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I've never had a problem (at least not in this life) with a lack of energy (of any kind).
You are one of those people who never ever get tired?!
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I don't really worry about whether or not I am using "drugs"
That is an interesting point to me because I've always assumed drugs have some sort of harmful effect. But then I don't know all that much about drugs. I guess moderation comes into play here. And yes, I take your point about money, sex, TV and all the rest, including spiritual ecstasy. I think the redeeming feature of the latter is that it is immediately available to each of us - we don't need to create a condition in the outside world to get it (assuming of course we've practised enough to be in that position).
Directing/being aware of the energy without stimulating it does seem a practical impossibility. But isn't the aim to find constructive outlets for it? (A purely theoretical question/hypothesis on my part, I admit, because I've not experienced that sort of energy level - my energy 'excesses' so far have only been signs of friction caused by blockages/impurities in the system)
Thank you again for your generous sharing |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1731 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2014 : 05:55:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
I'm reminded of the perennial question which Enya poses with her majestic voice, and that is: How can I keep from singing?
Indeed, we could not |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2014 : 12:59:07 PM
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Hi BlueRaincoat,
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
You are one of those people who never ever get tired?!
Unfortunately for the people around me, yes.
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I don't really worry about whether or not I am using "drugs"
That is an interesting point to me because I've always assumed drugs have some sort of harmful effect.
Everything, and I mean literally *everything* can be seen from a perspective in which it is harmful. Even a daily meditation practice or feeding the homeless can be seen as harmful from some perspectives. My feeling is that eventually one has to come to a point where they stop living by everyone else's rules and start living according to their own.
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
But then I don't know all that much about drugs.
This is the state that a lot of the people who rain fire and brimstone down on drugs/drug users are coming from. To those of us who can recognize both the positives and the negatives of drug use, this is a position that lacks understanding. I'm not saying that drugs can not do harm, just saying that anything can do harm if used incorrectly or with the wrong motivation/intention and the vice versa (anything can be used for good with proper motivation/intention).
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
I guess moderation comes into play here. And yes, I take your point about money, sex, TV and all the rest, including spiritual ecstasy. I think the redeeming feature of the latter is that it is immediately available to each of us - we don't need to create a condition in the outside world to get it (assuming of course we've practised enough to be in that position).
Spiritual ecstasy, in my opinion, can be just as harmful as anything else. Especially because it is endogenous. From my perspective, spiritual ecstasy has to be watched *very* carefully, just like drug use. It's very easy for someone living in a state of spiritual ecstasy to lose touch with their humanity. This is exactly what happened to me. I was living in a state where *nothing* could touch me, I was entirely unflappable and this, again in my opinion, can be extremely harmful... especially to those around you, but also to your own spiritual growth.
Picture this... your wife is having an extremely difficult time processing some emotions felt around loneliness after a difficult experience one afternoon. She longs for a good girlfriend but seems to be having a lifelong struggle trying to find a female friend who doesn't leave her stranded at her most vulnerable times. You come home from teaching a yoga class entirely blissed out, riding the waves of spiritual ecstasy and find your wife teary eyed on the couch. You take some time to suss out the problem, learn about the situation and the ongoing struggle to find a close female friend but just can not, no matter how hard you try, feel *anything* other than extremely elated. This was one of the situations (happened exactly like this) that helped me realize that even spiritual ecstasy and yoga practices can act exactly the same as a drug (this is very similar to how I would have acted/felt on heroin) and can be harmful if you are not carefully watching yourself and your actions.
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRaincoat
Directing/being aware of the energy without stimulating it does seem a practical impossibility. But isn't the aim to find constructive outlets for it? (A purely theoretical question/hypothesis on my part, I admit, because I've not experienced that sort of energy level - my energy 'excesses' so far have only been signs of friction caused by blockages/impurities in the system)
I think "the aim" (aka "the goal") is individual and often related to the specific "phase" you are in at the time. For me, the goal changed several times as things progressed. When I first started energy cultivation practices the goal was to awaken kundalini. Once that had happened the goal was to try and mitigate the troublesome symptoms of having an awakened kundalini. Now, having dropped all cultivation practices and having come to a place of relative balance, there is no goal regarding the energy other than to use it effectively.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Aug 08 2014 1:12:53 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2014 : 3:48:42 PM
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My twin brother is in a drug treatment program, currently. I've tried the past several years to bring him on board to the sober trip, but to no avail. It really is an individual choice. So, the strategy is to lead by example and blaze ahead. Live and let live.
No amount of rationalization of spiritual abstraction will nullify the fact that drugs/alcohol are more abrasive to the nervous system than naturally induced spiritual ecstasy. It's not a matter of opinion; it's a matter of neurobiology.
And here's the thing about genuine bliss: it's not a narcotic-like haze. It's a super-functional, hyper-sensitive, adaptable condition that can navigate a wide variety of situations. I'm not proclaiming to have attained it permanently (still a long way to go), but I've had a taste, and it's not like a moody euphoria or drug-induced highs.
Peace. Love. Abundance. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2014 : 6:17:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
My twin brother is in a drug treatment program, currently. I've tried the past several years to bring him on board to the sober trip, but to no avail. It really is an individual choice. So, the strategy is to lead by example and blaze ahead. Live and let live.
No amount of rationalization of spiritual abstraction will nullify the fact that drugs/alcohol are more abrasive to the nervous system than naturally induced spiritual ecstasy. It's not a matter of opinion; it's a matter of neurobiology.
And here's the thing about genuine bliss: it's not a narcotic-like haze. It's a super-functional, hyper-sensitive, adaptable condition that can navigate a wide variety of situations. I'm not proclaiming to have attained it permanently (still a long way to go), but I've had a taste, and it's not like a moody euphoria or drug-induced highs.
Peace. Love. Abundance.
Hi Bodhi,
My post was not meant to be a personal attack and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was just stating my own experience/path since I was asked. I wasn't looking for agreement *or* argument, not with you or anyone, and obviously you are free to disagree with me and state that. That said, your post reads to me like it is loaded with personal baggage. Not a slander, just mentioning that from here it seems as if anything to do with drugs seems very touchy for you. When that is the case for me it always turns out (in the end) that I was not seeing very clearly at the time.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Aug 08 2014 6:26:54 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2014 : 7:40:15 PM
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LOL. What's not loaded with personal baggage? Aren't we all speaking from personal experience? The only objective truth is when a bunch of subjective truths correlate and form some kind of consensus.
However, just as blue is blue, and green is green, I find it important to be precise with matters of cause and effect. There is some subjective observation to be made here about the effects of drugs and alcohol vs. the effects of "ecstatic" practices. While it is difficult to quantify these effects, I think we can still say with a high degree of certainty that drinking a 6 pack of beer is markedly different than doing a session of Spinal Breathing Pranayama. Namely, the detriment of the first is significantly higher.
I can speak of these matters with a clear mind and a calm heart. I can stare suffering dead in the face and not flinch. This is a direct result of sobriety and an increasingly purified nervous system. When I dropped my brother off at the treatment center, it was a very serene experience for me.
I'm not trying to convince you to stop using drugs or alcohol, but for the benefit of other readers, I am making some clear delineations regarding cause and effect. I wish for happiness for everyone, and the joy is that it's voluntary, but we can't just be lost in cotton candy land where nothing matters and all the details are inconsequential. The details are of substanial value. There is a mechanical aspect to this game.
Catch you on the flipside. |
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Singing
