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brauniver
Switzerland
42 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 26 2005 : 8:44:33 PM
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Hi
Im a little bit confused about the different opinions of the kundalinicurrent.
There are so many complete different ways the kundalini "should" flow in the different spiritual traditions:
1) "original" Kriya Yoga: up the spine and down the spine
2) satyananda saraswatis (Bihar) Kriya yoga: up the in the front of the body and down the spine
3) mantak chia Tao yoga: up the spine and down in the front
4) Tantric Buddhists: Up in the middle of the body
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Is it unimportant which ways one use?
Whats your way in your practise?
Couldnt it be dangerous if kundalini flows the wrong way?
Thanks a lot
oliver |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2005 : 10:31:06 AM
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Hello Oliver:
Thank you very much for raising these important questions on the inner pathways and risks of kundalini. Keep in mind that we are all dealing with the same nervous system, and all of the descriptions and practices are working with the same principles and neuro-biological dynamics.
The differences come from interpretations based on individual observations and discoveries, geo-cultural factors and traditional approaches that have been passed down for many generations. The efficacy of them is best judged on experience rather than blind faith acceptance. That is what we try and do here in AYP with a full range of integrated advanced yoga practices.
No doubt you have noticed that all of the variations of the path of kundalini you have mentioned have one thing in common -- part or all of the path is in the vicinity of the spinal cord. This is a pretty big clue on where the center of kundalini activity lies, and where the master control switch is. Certainly kundalini can be observed moving in many other nerve channels (nadis) in the body -- some major ones and many minor ones. Of course there is nothing "minor" about kundalini flowing anywhere. But it emanates primarily from the spine. Anyone who has awakened kundalini will tell you that. While some traditions go beyond the spine in their systems of practice, it is safe to say that the spinal cord is the master channel and controlling mechanism on the kundalini journey. In the yoga traditions, it is called sushumna. In AYP we usually call it the spinal nerve.
In AYP we work almost exclusively in and around the spinal nerve with all of our practices, with noticeable results. Make no mistake about it. It is results we are after, first and foremost. Progressive and safe results.
There are a couple of other factors that should be mentioned.
There are two primary aspects of the spiritual transformation we are cultivating. First is the awakening of inner silence, which is done primarily through deep meditation and samyama. Second is the awakening of what we call ecstatic conductivity in the nervous system, which is done mainly with pranayama, mudras, bandhas, asanas and tantric sexual methods. The first is the awakening of the Shiva principle within us. The second is the awakening of the Shakti principle, which is kundalini. There is overlap between all these methods on both the Shiva and Shakti sides because we are neuro-biologically "interconnected" inside.
On the kundalini side of this, yes, you are right that there can be difficulties if the path is not correct and the awakening is not measured (self-paced) according to ones capacity. The most common cause of difficulties has been demonstrated to be premature awakening of the crown. For that reason, here in AYP we do not approach the crown directly until very late on our journey, if at all. Instead, all the practices in AYP are geared to the root to brow (third eye) spinal nerve route, which has been found to be a very stable and progressive route for the vast majority of practitioners. Interestingly, by taking the root to brow approach in our practices, we also are opening the crown by proxy, without incurring the dangers to which you refer.
Once we have effectively cultivated both our inner silence and ecstatic conductivity, then we find a merging of these, which produces a condition where we are experiencing unshakable inner silence, ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love, all resident in us on an ongoing basis. This we call enlightenment. And all of this will be found to be emanating from the spinal nerve, flowing endlessly outward into the physical environment around us, and inward to the unbounded reaches of inner space. In the end, the outward and inward journeys are found to be one and the same. We become one with all, and that is Unity. Kundalini is but one aspect of the journey, dealing with the transformation of the neuro-biology to a permanent ecstatic condition.
That is a quick summary on how we view the path of kundalini in AYP, and how we cultivate it while minimizing the risks that are often associated with this important aspect of our enlightenment.
For further reading, check the AYP topic index at http://www.aypsite.org/TopicIndex.html which provides many lesson links on all that has been touched on here. If you are new to AYP, it is suggested that you also start at the beginning of the lessons and work your way straight through. There is a logical build-up of both knowledge and practices in the lessons.
Wishing you ongoing success on your chosen path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!
The guru is in you. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2005 : 7:22:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brauniver
2) satyananda saraswatis (Bihar) Kriya yoga: up the in the front of the body and down the spine
Oliver,
Yogani is always polite about the other traditions. There is a place however for the good-cop/bad-cop routine.  I am always happy to be the bad cop.  I would say that if that is satyananda saraswatis view of Kundalini, I think it could be categorized as simply something of a mistake.
There, I said it.
-David
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Aug 28 2005 7:23:16 PM |
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brauniver
Switzerland
42 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2005 : 08:40:00 AM
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@ david obsidian:
quote:
Yogani is always polite about the other traditions. There is a place however for the good-cop/bad-cop routine. I am always happy to be the bad cop. I would say that if that is satyananda saraswatis view of Kundalini, I think it could be categorized as simply something of a mistake.
To be honest, that is what I thought about!
Even the closest disciple of swami Satyananda STOPPED teaching this system. There should be a reason for that!
@ Yogani:
THANKS for your answer! It seems that you really know what your talking about. Thats nice ;-)
I just recovered that this is MORE than a forum. Your page and the lessons are GREAT! I already ordered your book at amazon.
Its really amazing that I discovered your HP.
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2005 : 10:24:51 AM
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Thank you, Oliver. I'm very happy we found you too. May you find the AYP lessons, books and forums to be good resources as you move forward on your chosen path.
Yes, this is much more than a forum. At least we aim for it to be. It will depend on what everyone brings to it. The hope is for it to evolve into a large community of practitioners giving and receiving "horizontally" rather than rigid top-down from a "vertical" hierarchy of teachings. The AYP lessons are designed to be a touchstone for these horizontal communications, not an absolute. The only absolute is your experience with the practices. As they say, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."
By the way, I have the greatest respect for Swami Satyananda. His book, "Kundalini Tantra" (1984) is a milestone in breaking the secrecy barrior on esoteric practices. If he is off on spinal breathing pranayama or other practices, we can look at all the options and make corrections based on logical assessments of causes and effects. But he broke the secrecy barrior on many practices, you know, and that is very important. Because of people like him, we are now able to have these comparative discussions leading to maximum effectiveness of our yoga practices.
There is more on the gradual shift of yogic writings over the past century from philosophy-oriented to practice-oriented in AYP lesson #253 at http://www.aypsite.org/253.html Philosophy is great. Practice is even better!
The guru is in you. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 29 2005 : 12:07:29 PM
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Thankyou Yogani,
As we move from the older 'vertical style' guru system to the newer amd more mature horizontal style, we need to fully shake off some of the preconceptions of the old system. We move from believing some teacher always got everything right, and we also move away from needing to believe it.
An important corrollary to this is that we don't write a teacher off because of some mistakes he made. We continue to respect him and fill in for his errors -- much like we do when we change our own minds because we find new information.
This one, on a closely related topic, is worth looking at for folks who haven't seen it before:
http://www.aypsite.org/260.html
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
The hope is for it to evolve into a large community of practitioners giving and receiving "horizontally" rather than rigid top-down from a "vertical" hierarchy of teachings. The AYP lessons are designed to be a touchstone for these horizontal communications, not an absolute.
By the way, I have the greatest respect for Swami Satyananda.
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sauravu
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2005 : 5:40:41 PM
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I am from Bihar and learned the first messages of yoga at Bihar while I was a kid(though I never kept it up ) . Guess who taught me Australians disciples of Satyananda Saraswati . Satyananda saraswati is a disciple of Sivananda Saraswati (of Rishikesh fame).If you count the living Indian masters most of them have the same lineage as Satyananda and I am very sure yogani has deep regard for him . Satyananda saraswati was talking of channeling of prana when speaking up it travelling up and down the body . When he speaks of kundalini the emphasis in on the nueral pathways through chakras and gives their exact ethereal location in the body . Make no mistake again the swrirling prana(one of the cosmic sheaths) in and around the body and kundalini the individual energy serpent which would use the pranas to communicate with the many layers of shiva.
AUM NAMAH SHIVAY
Aum . A humble |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 23 2005 : 10:28:12 PM
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Yes, I feel prana flowing up the front, but haven't had kundalini rise yet, and don't feel anything in my spine yet. So maybe some people are putting too much importance on minor currents who don't have the big picture yet.
Etherfish |
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Adam West
23 Posts |
Posted - Oct 24 2005 : 11:14:33 PM
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Hi Brauniver and all,
Brauniver wrote: "Even the closest disciple of swami Satyananda STOPPED teaching this system. There should be a reason for that!"
Do you have a reference for this so I can check it out myself? I would like to see if I can find this persons story, his thoughts on why he stopped teaching this system :-)
In kind regards,
Adam. |
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