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 Satsang Cafe - General Discussions on AYP
 Do I need more purification before AYP?
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machart

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Aug 08 2008 :  10:52:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
I'm a newbie to AYP but have been practicing asanas on and off since high school (I'm 52 now)..so I have not been the most dedicated yogi for most of my life but have gotten more serious in the last year taking classes at the Y and doing a lot of reading and researching while trying to practice some each day. Finding AYP has opened the door to meditation which I did not consider important enough before.

My question is that of AYP sequencing…beginning with deep meditation seems to thrust the practitioner into stage 5 and above of the ashtanga path from the get go. This seems to jump over most of the purification techniques that all of what I have read suggest are pre-requisites (ethics, strong body, breathe control, sense withdrawal….) so is it assumed that those that are new to AYP have had the necessary purification to start right into deep meditation? I know that spinal breathing is supposed to be the preferred purification technique of AYP but it is always suggested that if time is short do only the deep meditation which indicates to me that purification takes a back seat to meditation in all AYP practices.
Oh and by the way…I know that I need more purification since I still drink alcohol, smoke cigars, lust after women (mainly my wife) and eat too much (and I’m not talking salads here but meat, cheese and other tasty stuff)….So the main question here is should I modify the time for SB and DM to 20 -10 min versus the recommended 10-20 min since my need for purification is higher than the average AYP practitioner? I still like to do at least 30 min of asanas each day since my old knees won’t let me play tennis or run anymore to keep in shape.
Any input from those farther along the path than me is welcome.
Yogani…You get a gold star!
Mac

emc

2072 Posts

Posted - Aug 08 2008 :  11:22:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Mac and welcome to the forum!

It's a great question you ask. The order of practices has been addressed by Yogani in lesson 149, http://www.aypsite.org/149.html

quote:
Traditionally, the eight limbs have been taken in sequence. The
rationale has been that people have to learn to behave themselves and
prepare through strict codes of conduct before they can begin doing
more direct spiritual practices. Once they know how to behave
rightly, they can begin with the body (asanas), and, later, work
their way in through the breath (pranayama), and, finally, be ready
for concentration (dharana), meditation (dhyana), and pure bliss
consciousness (samadhi). With a traditional approach like this it can
be a long road to hoe, especially if a guru (in the flesh) holds his
disciples to the highest standards of performance each step along the
way. Even Patanjali had this sequence of practice in mind when he
wrote the yoga sutras.

That part of it (going through the eight limbs in sequence over a
long period of time) doesn't work very well. This has become widely
recognized in the yoga community, and Patanjali must have known it
too. Maybe in his time it wasn't so easy to be jump-starting people
with advanced yoga practices like deep meditation and spinal
breathing the way we can do it today.

Over the years different teachers have jumped directly into the eight
limbs in different places. Some start with asanas and others with
pranayama. Some focus first on devotion and then jump to meditation,
or something else. Some jump straight into meditation, and then work
their way back through the limbs. As you know, these lessons are of
the latter approach. We start with deep meditation, and then head
into pranayama, physical techniques, and so on, keeping a good
awareness of the role of bhakti/desire all the way through.

One thing everyone who does yoga has found is that the limbs of yoga
are connected, meaning, if we start in one limb, the others will be
affected, and, as we purify and open, we will eventually be drawn
into all of the limbs. It is common for new meditators to become
voracious spiritual readers (svadhyaya), lean toward a purer diet
(saucha), and feel more sensitive about the wellbeing of others
(ahimsa). In fact the best way to achieve progress in yama and niyama
is by going straight to samadhi with deep meditation. Then harmonious
behavior comes naturally from inside, rather than having to be
enforced from outside. These things are indicators of the
connectedness of yoga. It occurs on all levels of practice. Sometimes
it is called "Grace," because spiritual blessings seem to come out of
nowhere. In truth, such blessing are being telegraphed through us via
spiritual conductivity rising in our nervous system from something we
did somewhere on the eight-limbed tree of yoga. Even the sincere
thought, "Is there something more than this?" is a powerful yoga
practice, and it is found in the niyama limb – it is surrender,
bhakti. As you know from the lessons, this conductivity in the
nervous system becomes "ecstatic" when kundalini begins to move. When
that happens we are really getting connected through the limbs of
yoga - here, there, and everywhere.


This brings great opportunities, since you can begin with AYP deep meditation at any stage of your spiritual journey! I started without even knowing what yoga was! Just make sure you start off with one thing, and then add the next practice when you are stable and feel good with the first one. Otherwise you may not know the effects of the first practice, and are also at risk for overload (too much energies purifying your body at once).

It is not wise to change the proportions of time when it comes to spinal breathing and deep meditation. Too much spinal breathing could easily bring overload, and the AYP system is well tried out by many, and this "model" is what seems to work best. Remember that also the meditation itself is purifying, so you'll get enough purification, I'm sure!

All the best, emc
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machart

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Aug 08 2008 :  5:09:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input emc!

I think one of my issues is that I think (right or wrong) that SB is more beneficial for me, i.e. you visualize the energy moving up and down with exclamation points at each end via root lock and sambhavi and a noticeable calmness insues….With DM (in my case distracted meditation instead of deep meditation) it is much more subtle and seemingly difficult to master…. you just sit there trying to focus on “i am” with a billion other competing thoughts…but I’ll keep practicing. Does anyone ever really get to the point where you can go 20 min with the only thought being “i am”? Or is it supposed to be a vibration...aaaayyyaaammm… that is felt in the mind and not a thought? Do I need to pass the test of 20 min of concentrated “i am” before I go on to the first mantra enhancement?.... note: I actually cheated and tried the first mantra enhancement yesterday and kind of liked it better …but maybe I jumped the gun.

I need to grok this DM stuff better….
Mac
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Etherfish

USA
3615 Posts

Posted - Aug 08 2008 :  6:50:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit Etherfish's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes the mantra is supposed to be the vibration, not a thought.
It doesn't hurt to try mantra enhancements, but I can tell from your thoughts that just the basic mantra is what you need a lot of. Don't think of it so much as "concentration". You are not focusing your mind so much as you are letting go of it. All those competing thoughts will eventually separate from your self and start to float away so you can be more peaceful. Then just that basic mantra will become the greatest thing in the world to you as you feel God's peace (or substitute whatever your highest ideal is instead of God). If you don't "try" to accomplish anything, but just do the mantra, and persevere in gently pushing the thoughts aside,
you will slowly get there.
Then the spinal breathing is developing the other side of your energy, but it sounds like you have no problem there. The two practices are separate, and equally important.
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machart

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Aug 08 2008 :  9:12:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Etherfish,
Thanks! Sounds like very good advice.

Made me think of a Haiku....

Trying not to try
The mind jumps from here to there
I AM fills the void


Mac
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brushjw

USA
191 Posts

Posted - Aug 09 2008 :  6:16:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit brushjw's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Mac,

As Yogani writes in the first lesson (10):

"Some of these practices will seem familiar. Others will seem radical. Combined together in particular ways, they comprise a powerful system of yoga. These means are too useful to be reserved for the few. They belong to the many. So indulge yourself. If you long for the knowledge of human transformation, you are worthy, and you have come to the right place."

Welcome to AYP!

namaste,
Joe
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machart

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Aug 10 2008 :  11:04:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the welcome Joe!

Yogani's methods in AYP are powerful. My experience so far is that the body needs to have the ability to sit still with minimum distraction to get the maximum benefit of meditation...so I'm still working on that in my practice.

i.e. quieting the body = quieting the mind

Mac
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Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Aug 11 2008 :  10:47:56 AM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by machart

My experience so far is that the body needs to have the ability to sit still with minimum distraction to get the maximum benefit of meditation...so I'm still working on that in my practice.

i.e. quieting the body = quieting the mind

Mac


Welcome Mac.

If you are waiting to quieten the body so that the mind quietens, you may have to wait a long time.. and vice-versa..
If A = B then B = A
quieting the body = quieting the mind
then
quieting the mind = quieting the body.

Hence in AYP we don't work to specifically quieten either.. we just do our practice and let the practice take care of what needs quieting in what order. If that makes any sense.

We don't try to achieve anything... we sit for 20 min, twice a day.. and meditate on "i am", using the process Yogani outlines in his lessons..

quote:
Mac said: With DM (in my case distracted meditation instead of deep meditation) it is much more subtle and seemingly difficult to master... you just sit there trying to focus on “i am” with a billion other competing thoughts…but I’ll keep practicing. Does anyone ever really get to the point where you can go 20 min with the only thought being “i am”?


There is no "you mastering the process".. it's very gently letting go and let "the process master You"..
Thoughts will come.. all you do is go back to the mantra.
quote:
http://www.aypsite.org/13.html
Once you have gotten comfortable, slowly close your eyes. You will notice thoughts, streams of thoughts. That is fine. Just observe them without minding them. After about a minute, gently introduce the thought …I AM… and begin to repeat it easily and effortlessly in your mind. If your mind wanders off into other thoughts, you will eventually realize this has happened. Don't be concerned about it. It is natural. When you realize you are not repeating the mantra, gently go back to it. This is all you have to do. Easily repeat the mantra silently inside. When you realize you are not thinking it, then easily come back to it. The goal is not to stay on it. The goal is to follow the simple procedure of thinking the mantra, losing it, and coming back to it when you find you have lost it. Do not resist if the mantra tends to become less distinct. Thinking the mantra does not have to be with clear pronunciation. I AM can be experienced at many levels in your mind and nervous system. When you come back to it, come back to a level that is comfortable, not straining for either a clear or fuzzy pronunciation.

Do this procedure for twenty minutes, and, then, with your eyes
closed, take a few minutes to rest before you get up.




Wish you all the best.

Edited by - Shanti on Aug 11 2008 10:51:50 AM
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machart

USA
342 Posts

Posted - Aug 11 2008 :  3:20:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input Shanti!
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