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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 27 2008 : 8:35:02 PM
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in my reading lately I have realized that my understanding of certain things may be wrong so I was hoping some of you advanced people on here could help maybe some things can be cleared up for me. So if the objective is to rise above lust and desires, what do we call the desire to want to want a wife? and while having the wife if we want to have sex, that is not lust? and if she were to cheat on us how do we feal bad but not jelous? let me know if I need to explain some things in depth
thanks
neil |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 12:38:22 AM
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duuude, there's no "the objective". Once your objective is to rise above lust and desire, I'm sure you'll appropriatly find the wisdom it is you're looking for. I know Buddha said to rid oneself of all attachments to desire, the keyword here is attachments though. It's about living life in such a way that the simple stuff, like simply being :) is fulfilling. And that's done through simple awareness of everything you already do, everything you already are. When you're fully aware in the moment, attachments are gradually seen as "illusif". I don't really like that word (illusif) because it creates a sort of resistance, forget illusion, just live everything you do and desire with awareness and things should unfold nicely, and when they don't... awareness is still there.
The thing with awareness, is that it doesn't exist without existence!! haha. Without desires and love and hate and lust and the whole word around us, there would be no awareness, so one gets in touch with "higher consciousness" by keenly practicing ones awareness with everything. There's no do's and dont's... well for me anyway, except for one thing, awareness. And in a way, my awareness is your awareness is his awareness, but in many ways... it's not, which is why I don't believe in this "transcend sex" sort of business. I respect those who do, I can see certain value in taking a vow of celibacy, though until your awareness is at a point where that's right for you, why kid yourself.
Sex is beautiful, jealousy is beautiful, lust, anger... all of it has it's own beauty. Each aspect of life brings a certain fulfillment, especially when keenly practicing awareness of each. Why leave any of it out? haha (actually the funnier part is How do you leave any of it out... haha, as soon as you try... it's there).
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2008 : 01:00:44 AM
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oh umm, I just remembered too, I think you might enjoy Osho's talks on transcending sex. To be honest, he never really gives an answer... it's basically, have sex, and when you are fully aware during the act of sex, then it will be transcended not before. He speaks a lot of past lifes too, saying that most celibate monks these days have probably already transcended sex in a past life, and thus the desire simply is not there.
To me his approach seems to make more sense at least in a modern sense, rather than a traditional buddhist "ban sex" sort of approach (though to each his own :) ). I read a pretty interesting book on the subject of sex crazed monks actually, reciting a whole bunch of stories and what not of horny monks and their failures at transcending sex through Buddha's initial approach. That one was called "lust for enlightenment".
link: http://www.oshoworld.com/onlinebook...iousness.txt (it's under his "translations from Hindi" called, From sex to superconsciousness) |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2008 : 11:30:34 PM
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thank you for your response, it was an interesting read. we grow up hearing about sin and we are taught things and they become ingrained. so once we start trying to understand things for ourselves we are stepping outside of a box that we have been in for a long time and sometimes you feel as if there is no solid ground. But I guess some would say solid ground is an illusion as well.
Neil
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2008 : 12:44:49 AM
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| There's definetly solid ground. We need only to open a few doors that are ingrained in our nature :). The guru is within you ;). |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2008 : 09:25:55 AM
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There definitely is no solid ground, and every time I think my feet may have found a small foothold on such, I am rudely shoved to the shifting quicksands of relative existence. Oh, there IS a level of Reality that does not change--the absolute silence of Pure Awareness--but in this life that we live, the only thing that never changes is the fact that everything always changes. Everything. Always. I've been meditating for 35 years, and was a disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for a time many many years ago, and I hold this as experiential truth rather than as opinion. As far as the desire to have a wife, this is the natural mood of someone who's dharma is to be a householder. There is nothing wrong with this--like the desire to become enlightened, wanting fulfillment is natural and good. What trips us up is becoming attached to such desires and having the purity of the desire polluted by the attachment to its fulfillment. That is the source of all suffering--not the desire itself, but the attachment to fulfilling that desire. By all means, have intentions, all sorts of intentions--to marry, to raise children, to make a contribution to society, whatever--but never become too attached to how you will (or won't) get those desires fulfilled. As for lust, sex, etc., especially as concerns one's wife, I was married for 33 years when my wife died. I never ceased to lust after her, to be excited and passionate toward her, to want her and to want her to want me, to want to please her and fulfill her desires--that's what the love between a husband and wife is about. Devotion is a VERY subtle and complex thing--part dharma, part karma, part intention, part emotion, part body, part heart and part mind, but ALL Awareness. The problems with spousal devotion lie in becoming ego-attached to having, rather than being fulfilled with Being. When I was still overcome with ego-identification with my need to BE fulfilled by my wife and fulfill her, I could make myself miserable, because of course, one can never be always fulfilled or fulfill another in the realm of relative change--that will always slip away (see above--everything changes!) When I finally overcame my attachment to having, and learned to be satisfied with Being, then the relationship blossomed fully into a mature sort of devotion that transcends love. Difficult to explain, impossible to see this forest through the trees when you are a young and inexperienced person, but from the top of the hill, very easy to finally understand and to live fully. Be patient, be pure in your intentions, and be easy on yourself. Listen to and become comfortable with your internal silence...
Michael |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2008 : 8:51:00 PM
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thank you micheal
your post seems to make a lot of sense and from someone who has lived it. It is hard sometimes when we read spiritual literature but have no one to help clarify. I have read some things and taken them litterally and I think this has caused a lot of setbacks. Your post seems to help clarify some things and yoganis writings has done that as well as with other people I have been in contact with lately.
thanks
Neil
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