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surrealist
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 04 2008 : 7:03:33 PM
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Hi everyone!
I've been doing AYP on and off for a few years now. Over the past few months I've been much better about sticking with the twice-daily schedule, though my full-time job makes it difficult sometimes. I've lurked on the forum for a while, which I've found interesting and educational, but this is my first post.
Anyway, my problem is this: during meditation, I can't seem to stop focussing on my breath. This comprises a few issues:
- If I don't give some attention to the breath I often actually stop breathing.
- The mantra and the breath tend to line up, so the most comfortable way to meditate is to begin the mantra as I'm breathing out. Trying to let go of this pattern causes me to keep checking on myself (is my breath and mantra properly out of alignment?), which is of course not staying with the mantra.
- Sometimes the breath just seems so "loud" in my mind that I can't seem to get away from it.
I've kept with it hoping this would resolve itself on its own, but it's been a couple years now and I keep thinking I must be doing it wrong 
Any advice would be most welcome!
Thanks!
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2008 : 8:05:13 PM
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Relax! :)
If the mantra is syncing with the breath, it's ok. Just let it be. Don't force it either way. Who cares?
If you stop breathing, it's ok - when the car stops, it needs no gas :))
As soon as you notice you've stopped breathing - back to mantra :)
If you absolutely cannot go back to mantra when you have the feeling that the breath is so loud, then stay with your breath for a while. Relax. After that, when the feeling subsides and you're able to go back to the mantra, go back to it. It's very simple and there's not much more that you can do about it. We direct our attention just by willing. Try it again and again and it will come :) |
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Emil
Australia
141 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2008 : 03:36:20 AM
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Hi there,
I would also need some advise on this issue. I've been meditating for years but I'm still struggling with this. If I don't give attention to my breath it will stop. So I need to play weird games that I'm sure makes my meditation inefficient. Things like starting the breath and then starting the mantra and then hope to get lost in the process... it's like my breath doesn't work automatically like other people's do unless I'm really lost and I forget everything.
Any idea what I should do? (simply favoring the mantra doesn't solve the problem because then I'll be longing for air all the time and makes me agitated..) |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2008 : 09:44:46 AM
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HI there Emil/surrealist
It is quite normal for the breath to slow down and even seem to stop during deep meditation, this is nothing to worry about it just means you are doing things correctly, you wont suffocate and die I assure you.
Your breath doesn't actually stop it just slows down so much it seems too, this is because your metabolism has slowed down and your brain does not require so much oxygen.
Try and just come gently back to the mantra and all will be well |
Edited by - Richard on Jul 08 2008 10:42:17 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2008 : 10:11:08 AM
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Hello surrealist, welcome to the forum, and hello Emil.
I have an experimental tip for you for working with this particular issue. I have mentioned it before here, in a thread you may find interesting in general. What I'm going to say now is partially an edit of what I've said there.
It's an alternative way to start the meditation. Sometimes I find my approach to the meditation (and the mantra) to be overly intense or agressive, and this way of starting the meditation can help. It can can also help with other kinds of mantra-obsessive issues, like the issue of fussing about co-ordination of the mantra with heartbeat or breath.
It really does work quite well for me, and someone else on the older forum found it very useful too.
I know it may be slightly controversial.
It is to begin saying the mantra out loud, then bring it quieter and quieter, until only my lips are moving while I am saying it (no voice), then letting the lips get more and more lazy until they refuse to move. When they have completely refused to move, you are in regular meditation!
It is an alternative way to start meditation, but the practice is identical once it has started. The process of starting this way may take about a minute.
Actually, in practice, I often dive straight for the 'lipping' phase (omitting the vocal part). That's just as good, and no-one gets to hear you start to meditate!
Let me know if you find it helpful.
-David
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jul 08 2008 10:12:15 AM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2008 : 10:22:57 AM
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Surrealist, when I am meditating sometimes I get a feeling not so much that I will stop breathing if I don't pay any "attention" to the breath, but rather that I am going to suffocate - like the feeling of being underwater too long but obviously not that dramatic. It always seemed to me like a letting-go issue - the fear of letting go of the breath which could keep you from becoming further immersed in the mantra. Sometimes I have found that if the mantra becomes deep, than something pulls me out (either myself or a distraction) THEN the breath issue will come up.
But as everyone has said, best thing to do is just go with it. All that matters is FAVORING the mantra - that doesnt mean thoughts wont run alongside it, just that you are conicously aware of the mantra at all times.
Better to have the breath as a "distraction" than an annoying song or your grocery list, right? I'd say the breath is quite significant. |
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surrealist
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2008 : 11:28:48 PM
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| Thanks for the input, everyone! I'll try these techniques out and let you know how things are progressing! |
Edited by - surrealist on Jul 08 2008 11:31:23 PM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 14 2008 : 3:03:23 PM
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Hello Everyone,
I wanted to jump in on this topic as well because I am having similiar, albiet slightly different, issues. My problem is that I seem to be unable to breath during deep meditation. I can get to a point where my only thought is of the I AM mantra, but when this happens my focus is unable to be on my breath and soon my attention is drawn away from the mantra to the fact that I have a GREAT pressure on my chest due to lack of breath. It may be important to note that I am unable to "chest" breath as well during meditation. I seem to only be able to "stomache" breath if I want to stay focussed on the mantra. It seems that the more I allow myself to be absorbed in the mantra the less attention I can focus on my breath and it slowly gets shallower and shallower until I cannot focus on the mantra at all and am forced to focus on my breath in order to stay alive. I know that the "breathless" state is what I am trying to achieve here, but it seems almost like it is too easy to fall into and I am not ready to be there and will die if I allow myself to go any deeper into focussing on the mantra. I am very familiar with Paramahansa Yogananda's Kriya Yoga and in fact this is my main personal practice, and I remember him talking about Sri Yukteswar's ability to stop breathing while asleep/in samadhi, and I know that some people once they have gotten to the point of being "used" to being breathless or whatever will not die when achieving this state, but I really feel like it is either the mantra, or death by lack of oxygen at least for me. I assume that if I just "let go" as someone above said, that I would hit samadhi and would not need breath and would not die, but I just seem to be unable to pull my senses far enough inward that I am able to "not-notice" that I am not breathing and end up becoming concerned for my life and lose the mantra. I'm sure that you will all say that I just need to continue on repeating the mantra, allowing myself to get out of breath, stop focussing on the mantra, regain my breath, and refocus on the mantra, but that just seems so ineffective, and I am starting to lose desire to get up so early in the a.m. to meditate. (no problems meditating later in the day, but that early morning one can be a killer for a non-morning person such as myself who has a 7am job start time, haha) It really seems as if I focus solely on the mantra, breathing is not an option. And if I focus on breathing, (especially chest breathing) it is impossible to stay with the mantra. Do I need to try and focus just on the mantra and say "I don't care if I die from lack of oxygen" in order to further progress, or will the progression naturally happen over time? Is this common? Thanks in advance for any thoughtful replies.
Namaste,
CarsonZi |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jul 14 2008 3:46:43 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2008 : 11:11:41 AM
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It is common to start going into breathless states. It scares the mind which thinks it needs oxygen - it's designed to be worried about our survival. In fact - are you really sure that's air you're breathing anyway, as they say in Matrix? 
It's amazing how little we need to breathe, really. I find myself in breathless states longer and longer periods both IN and OUT of practices and once I learned to relax in it... it's rather pleasant.
Yogani has explained it somewhere, that the internal organs transform to be able to breath directly without having to get oxygen through the blood from the lungs. That may cause a lot of burping as well - air coming from nowhere in the stomach it seems, causing burps.
The fear of the unknown is the problem here... not the breathless state per se. The body takes care of itself. Focus on accepting the fear - watch how the mind tries to frighten you, confuse you or convince you there's danger around... and then during practices - have faith and easily come back to the mantra!
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Edited by - emc on Jul 15 2008 11:50:18 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2008 : 3:35:43 PM
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Thanks for the reply EMC. Yesterday in my evening meditation, I tried as hard as I could without focusing on it, to just allow myself to be without breath and not focus on it. I found that if I hold the mantra, allow the breath to slowly get shallower and shallower until it stopped, and then continue to hold the mantra and REFUSE to think about my breath, I went further then I have ever before. I knew there was some kind of connection to stopping worrying about breathing and DEEp meditation but now I know from experience. I will continue to practice losing my fear of the "unknown" and hopefully this too shall pass. Thank you.
CarsonZi |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2008 : 9:52:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Thanks for the reply EMC. Yesterday in my evening meditation, I tried as hard as I could without focusing on it, to just allow myself to be without breath and not focus on it. I found that if I hold the mantra, allow the breath to slowly get shallower and shallower until it stopped, and then continue to hold the mantra and REFUSE to think about my breath, I went further then I have ever before. I knew there was some kind of connection to stopping worrying about breathing and DEEp meditation but now I know from experience. I will continue to practice losing my fear of the "unknown" and hopefully this too shall pass. Thank you.
CarsonZi
Hi Carsonzi, welcome to the forum eh!
Just a friendly mention that "trying hard" and "refusing" are not necessary to get where you want to go. Simply coming back to the mantra and repeating it whenever you realize you are off, including when you notice yourself in thoughts about breathing or not breathing. Just gently come back to repeating the mantra, no supreme effort required, just an easy change of focus.
"I knew there was some kind of connection to stopping worrying about breathing and DEEp meditation but now I know from experience."
This is the key to your success, realizing that there is no need to worry. Worry is caused by focussing and dwelling on thoughts like I should be breathing or the unknown is scary etc. instead of coming back to the mantra.
Best of luck to you!
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2008 : 10:21:43 AM
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Hi Anthem,
Thanks for your advice...When I said "trying hard" and "refusing" what I really mean is basically what you are saying...I am doing what I can to stop worrying about dying from asphyxiation, without adding extra thought. It's hard to say that you are trying to correct a wrong attitude without admitting that you are thinking about your processes's, if you know what I mean. It doesn't mean that I am spending my whole meditation thinking about not worrying about breathing, it is just, (if you read my earlier post) for me it seemed before it was one or the other....Keep the mantra or die of asphyxiation. There did not seem to be any room to "not worry" about dying..(and I guess I should say that normally I wouldn't care if I was about to die, except I am getting married {for the first time, haha} in two weeks, and I admit I have desires to see the day come to pass) After I am married, I promise I won't care about dying and will allow every sitting to be as though it is the last thing I will ever do. This I am sure will kill any last residue of my issue with keeping the mantra or feeling I'm about to die and am not even going to notice it. My meditations have only got increasingly better since I made the realization (with the help of someone above's advice) that I will not be "allowed" by my body to asphyxiate myself...At some point whether I realize it or not, my body will start to breath regardless of me thinking about it, and this realization was the breakthrough for me. the past couple of days of meditations have been deeper and less thoughtfilled, and have lacked the dualistic nature of mantra or death with no inbetween. I feel truely blessed to have found this forum and the people on it, and I wish to thank you all for your kind and thoughtful advice and conversations. Thank you all and namaste.
CarsonZi |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jul 16 2008 10:24:19 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2008 : 10:34:43 AM
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| I should also mention that in the meditation directly after having the above realization, that I also realized that (at least for me) with the breath comes thought. It is VERY easy (for me) to have no thoughts when holding my breath or "having" my breath suppressed, and that the goal is (again, at least for me) to be able to breathe WHILE not having any thoughts. Once I got to that point I feel I was "away to the races" so to speak. My issue was that before, when not having any breath due to concentrating on the mantra, my mind would kind of "force" me to think about the fact that I'm not breathing and if I don't take a breath soon I will die. But I could not seem to take a breath and still focus on the mantra without having more intruding thoughts. Hence the "with the breath comes the thought." And the only way it seemed that I could keep the mantra was if I didn't care if I died right then, and just let myself stay not breathing. But it is all water slowly going under the bridge I think. Hope maybe this helps someone else having the same difficulties. I love this forum. Someday I will do some work instead of reading the posts on AYP all day. haha |
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surrealist
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 12:56:46 PM
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Hi again!
So this is something I'm still working with, but I've definitely made some progress over the past few weeks, so I thought I'd let people know what seems to be working for me. I still haven't tried David's advice above about starting the meditation by chanting the mantra out loud. I have no aversion to trying "controversial" techniques, but some of the things I tried first yielded some promising results, and I've been working with those.
Two things have helped a lot. The first was the advice that Jim and His Karma gave at the start of the thread that David linked to above, especially the second point about simplifying and not trying to get back to that blissful experience you had before.
The second was a really pleasant discovery. I've been working with an Alexander Technique instructor to (successfully!) help work out some chronic neck pain. If you've ever done any Alexander Technique lessons, you know it's all about correcting posture and having good posture without straining. Well, I made a small correction to my posture one day during a meditation session, and my breath came so much easier afterwards that it became much easier to focus on the mantra and not on the breath! It was hard to believe that poor posture can make it so much harder to breathe, but I guess you yogis won't be so shocked.
A subsequent discovery I made is that even with good posture, sometimes I have a tightness in my solar plexus, just below my rib cage. When it's very tight, it's difficult to breathe effortlessly, and meditation is more difficult. I'm hoping I can develop a short asana series to open this area up. Any suggestions?
Based on my experience I suspect that the posture problem may be behind many people's difficulty with letting the breath go. I'd love to hear what people think about this!
Thanks again for the advice! I'll post later with any new discoveries! |
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2008 : 2:29:14 PM
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surrealist, you said this
" can't seem to stop focussing on my breath"
you have attacthed yourself to that statement, let the statemant and thought passs and remember, I am able
more then thougghts, reality
Neil
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Can't stop focussing on breath
