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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 4:30:06 PM
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So I had this experience, I, think they call it ego. It seems an inexhaustible never ending source of confusion, sometimes suffering, definitely pleasure from time to time. Main point... it just keeps on coming, it wants to be fed, it definetly seems I've fed it enough. It wants the world, the universe, but I've only had that when I stopped feeding it, when I gave it nothing, when I, stopped. Of course that's a lie, *I* have had the universe? The universe wouldn't be enough for that I, the ego, I can't even call it my ego, the ego is what it is. It's not even tied down to me, it defines and sorts the world around me for "me" and creates its ideas and stories and what'll get me what and bring me where, it has its uses no doubt, but confusion creeps in somewhere.
Some might think "it's the price to pay for being human (suffering)", I'd rather say: pay the price, give up your construct of "me"(and all other "me's" seen in the other, they're just reflections of the first me), go into nothing, and being human will present itself. No amount of meditation or spiritual cleansing or any of that will EVER make this choice for you, it's the only choice needed for any sort of enlightenment. The ONLY choice. There's not even an "I" to make this choice... and there's the choice again.
Wether nothing creeps in while meditating one day, or you feel it calling in everyday life, the choice will present itself one day. You don't need to be "purified", it's a choice that deals with what you already are at any giving second, beyond life, beyond death, beyond logic, beyond karma. Even just looking inside and seeing part of what this choice means will make a huge difference. If anything, taste nothing. I won't deny, you can't turn back, there's no turning back when nothing's involved. I'm not sure about turning forward either haha.
It takes nothing to see is-ness. How crazy eh? haha, be a little crazy, pretend your story is nothing and then stop pretending. Pretend you're Buddha, then know you are when you really dive in. Just know that there's no "really diving in".
Just felt like giving our ego's something to think about :) well not really... haha.
Namaste folks
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 05:15:32 AM
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nice post Div,
concerning the ego if i may add smthg, i've come to the thinking that the ego is the work of the mind and once the mind is settled down we get to know that true self or that there is no self.....
as yogani says it in his book deep meditation, during our meditation we sometimes experience that sort of a split second or two... of bliss of peace and when we think about it it's gone.
the tool for realizing that state is quieting the mind and i've found that there is no better solution for that purpose than meditation either on a mantra or breath(zazen vipassana etc) it's all the same just mindfullness which reaches us in the end toward the realization that there is no i there is only bliss.
and now what you have mentioned seems to me like sort of a zen or advaitan kind of speech but even these guys meditate on this fact and call it purification or going through the process of realizing it's all the same it's a road that we all must go through toward reaching that final goal SR or NSR :)
just wanted to share these thoughts,
namaste
Ananda
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 06:45:42 AM
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"it's all the same just mindfullness"
exactly!!! :) I've pretty much dropped all techniques to meditation. I'll either sit and "allow", or sit and watch my breath. I'll "spinal breath" from time to time too, but to me "inner purification" has nothing to do with enlightenment. My "highest states" found in meditation were just from being, from allowing, from me not being there rather than me trying to fix my inner workings or something like that. Not that there's a problem with working on yourself or any of that, but where enlightenment is concerned, it just comes down to "absorbed consciousness" (from my limited understanding). When you can drop your story, your excuses, your explanations, all the extra baggage, and just be in the moment. What I really mean is just seeing that there's nothing to drop, that this is it, and being ok with that. I know they seem to contradict each other... haha, I wish I could say "there's nothing to drop", i'm not sure that gets the point across though. Go into "no-thing"... that's a little better :).
"as yogani says it in his book deep meditation, during our meditation we sometimes experience that sort of a split second or two... of bliss of peace and when we think about it it's gone."
I beg to differ. It's tying yourself down to the one who thinks about it that'll make it "gone". I've had that sort of bliss and peace while meditating, and then problems would come up, and it was sorta like "hey, the bliss is still here, and I'm thinking about my problem, except I'm not my problem, this problem thing seems rather silly". I kinda refrain to say "not my problem" though, I think it's more that that sort of state "leaves nothing out" and in doing so, you're all of it, but where to tie yourself down if you're already all of it? haha
ps. problem solving is easy when bliss is involved haha.
Your first 2 lines still have me thinking though, I'm not sure I agree with them... though I guess it depends on what the definition of a settled mind is. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2008 : 12:20:46 AM
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dear Div we are all riding the same boat but with different handles, and in the end what's most important is to get to the end and not the itsy bits and to each his likings.
and for myself i believe in the purification of the nervous system cz i've seen it work 1st hand and it changes the person a lot concerning the habbits,relations etc and once you have smthg it's still here and you don't have to wait for it to happen again.
and a few years back i used to experiment some states of bliss and some unusual experiences now and then just from the act of meditating on being still and it would take me months to accomplish what i'm doing now in weeks or days.
plus i tend to believe in reincarnation and too bad i can't prove it but i think it's the reason why some are whired more than others to experience self realization and is the reason why some need to do a lot of cleaning and some just need to make a little effort.
i'm sure you must of read all that stuff b4 arround here hehehe, but anyways it's healthy that we have different opinions.
namaste my friend.
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2008 : 7:22:08 PM
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Indeed. I'm young, I like thinking my opinions really matter haha. Honestly, thanks for being honest. I know I can tend to be a bit of a "dictator of nothing". You shoulda seen me with my mom today, trying to explain to her the middle path.
And no, it's not healthy that we have different opinions, I dissagree ;). :D hehe, just kidding with ya.
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2008 : 8:43:24 PM
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... I couldn't help myself :).
"plus i tend to believe in reincarnation and too bad i can't prove it but i think it's the reason why some are whired more than others to experience self realization and is the reason why some need to do a lot of cleaning and some just need to make a little effort."
To me, the only difference is beliefs and intention. If you make enlightenment something in the future, it'll never come, the future's never here... if you keep it in the now, your odds are maybe a little more likely. Might as well think you're a Buddha now, and know it later. It's not a lie... plus it'll make every belief you have about enlightenment blow up in your face, and then they drop like flies till no beliefs are left. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2008 : 02:52:42 AM
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hehehehe, thk you my friend for being who you are.
namaste |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2008 : 06:02:23 AM
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too bad i didn't see your last post when i wrote my last reply , and my friend again i say i know all about the now and the advaitan and zen ways and i've had some the experience of that pure bliss conciousness but to simply put it want i want to dig deeper and to each his own sailing boat.
but if you want honesty i think that the way you are posing your posts it's like you're stuck on the idea that i am right and you are wrong concerning the purification stuff; well i just see this as a sad thing and a far away point from being enlightened and it's like those people who are very stubborn concerning religious texts ect and from there we get fundamentalism.
again i say to each his sailing boat i believe in god you might not etc to each his right of thinking and what he finds best suitable and speaking for myself i organized a system of practice which involves islamic suffism, christianity advaita ayp zen.... and it's all good this is the path i chose and it suits me fine and i've noticed that each time i meditate and practice yoga and do devotion more each time i become more established in the truth and i realize more dorment potentials in me and when i practice the realization of the now i experience more bliss more truth more of that uncharacteristic state.
it's like a saying for ramakrishna: all paths lead to god and if there is smthg wrong in a path or a religion then god will change it for the devotee and pull him towards him if his faith is true.
namaste my friend and hope my words don't offend you in any way cz i mean well in them.
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2008 : 06:12:14 AM
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plus to add on smthg, even Ananda who was one of the closest students of the buddha took a lot of time to get enlightened and to give another example of nowadays let's take adyashanti he started meditating and practicing the zen way since a young age in the company of a teacher but never really got enlightened until in his thirtees which leads me to the conclusion that there is a process of purification going on but the manner of dealing with it is done in a different way. (vipassana, zazen, neti neti etc )
kind regards |
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