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UniversalMind
United Kingdom
28 Posts |
 Posted - May 26 2008 : 7:54:52 PM
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Hi all! Yogani describes some of the technique of samyama as (It is a subtle feeling of Love we are coming to). What if your are unsure of what love is? How could you be sure you are releasing the correct feeling? If he means the fuzziness of the word without feeling then i understand. Therefore does the fuzziness of the word represent the totality of love? I would be grateful for any replies.
thank's all. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 01:25:02 AM
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I'd say it's the intention that counts, not the actual procedure. It's like qi gong. You don't have to be able to do the movements correct. Even if you are disabled and sit in a wheelchair you can do qi gong, because qi goes where your intention goes, and thus, you do qi gong mostly in your mind and the physical is secondary. It's worse to do qi gong physically correct with your intention elsewhere... That doesn't work at all.
The intention and sound vibration in samyama is what's working. If you really mean Love, then love is the vibration that goes out, no matter if the feeling is there or not or to what degree, or whether you even know what love is or not. My samayama is VERY mechanical often. I probably don't do a thing "right". In order not to pass out all the time (then there will be no samyama) I have to have a clock with a sharp sound, ticking every second, and I count to 15 loudly in my head after every sutra - although attention is still MORE on the stillness than on the counting, stillness in foreground, counting in background. The sutras are very loud and clear and not fuzzy at all. And you know what... it works anyway, because I expect it to work and my intention is that I'm doing samyama!
I don't have a clue what is meant by 'strength' and 'abundance' for example, and don't know what feeling to send with those ones, so I just say it with the intention that Stillness knows what to do with it!!! I'm even leaving the intention to Stillness when I can't find it myself!
Hard to get a feeling of 'wisdom' also or of 'inner sensuality', easier there to have some sort of intent.
Overall, to me all sutras are sound vibrations, like the mantra, and I just release them to stillness.
PS. Actually, after reading this post, I wonder if I know what I'm doing at all...  Don't trust a word I say! |
Edited by - emc on May 27 2008 01:29:36 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - May 27 2008 : 03:41:44 AM
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emc said:quote:
PS. Actually, after reading this post, I wonder if I know what I'm doing at all... Don't trust a word I say!
hahaha!!! I know that one
That sounds very complex to me emc and more done out of necessity to keep you conscious and not pass out, as you say, from the effects of samyama.
My method of samyama is just saying the word without attaching any feeling or meaning to it whatever and let it go into the silence.
This works well for me, in fact I am often surprised at how powerful certain words can be. Take wisdom for instance - sometimes nothing happens and other times I feel a hugh surge in the energy, sometimes colours come.
The same goes for the other sutras, sometimes nothing apparent happens and other times a lot happens. quote:
What if your are unsure of what love is? How could you be sure you are releasing the correct feeling? If he means the fuzziness of the word without feeling then i understand. Therefore does the fuzziness of the word represent the totality of love
We don't necessarly know what "love" is, and that's the point. We have been using and hearing the word love all our lives however and it carries a lot of meaning within us even though we might not realise it.
When the word is let go into the silence, it is the silence that takes care of everything. So please don't concern yourself with meanings etc, let the silence take care of it
The fuzziness is something that happens over time, like with the mantra, as we get more into it the fuzziness can come, important to allow it to come and not force it away.
Interested to hear other's experiences.!
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neerja1
India
22 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 06:49:52 AM
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Hi UniversalMind, emc and Sparkle!
quote:
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Take wisdom for instance - sometimes nothing happens and other times I feel a hugh surge in the energy, sometimes colours come.
The same goes for the other sutras, sometimes nothing apparent happens and other times a lot happens.
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Same goes for me, Sparkle. During my Samyama practices, I just release the sutras in silence and with every sutra released I can feel an inner expansion. When I started Samyama sometime last year, I could feel the inner expansion increasing with every single sutra from day one (may be it was because one was going deeper with every sutra)and by the time I would reach Akash it was as if my complete body would burst out..will tear away from the seams and the inner expansion would dissolve into the outer expansion...too much of energy playing around in the body may be for I had to undergo serious self pacing following that. I discontinued Samyama for many months. Have taken it up recently....the energy expansions are still there but not to that extent. Also, at times the energy is there, at times it is not..The physical body seems to have taken its lesson very well..is treading the path carefully  ..
Love
Neerja |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 11:59:28 AM
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Hi All:
This recent email exchange might be helpful:
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Q: Could you please clarify for me one subtle moment in the practice of samyama ... my "inner light" suggested me in order to refine the sutras, to initially do samyama on each of them for a bit longer, instead of just picking it for a fraction of the second. My experience shows /since my mind is not so fast yet/, that if a hold the sutra for a few seconds /2 to 5/ it refines to a much subtler level, which is on the border of my inner silence and afterwards I transcend to a deeper samadhi. Doing so, seems to leave me with a feeling of great elevation after the practice and during the day. Is it right to do so or shall I strictly abide to the fast form of sutra picking up? I cannot yet pick it up on the finest possible level immediately, it takes a bit longer for it to get there.
A: Like with the mantra in meditation, setting a fixed mode for picking up a sutra in samyama is not the preferred way to go. Due to purification and opening occurring in the nervous system over time, the sutra may sometimes tend to stretch out, and other times be barely noticed (short, faint and fuzzy). Both are correct. We just pick up the sutra at whatever level is comfortable, and let it go. It will not always be the same, and it will interfere with the natural flow of practice to try and make it a particular way. Then we may find ourselves trying to make a longer pronunciation when the nervous system is ready to lightly touch and go into stillness. And the reverse is true also. Sometimes the mind will naturally elongate a sutra a bit (you are experiencing that, right?), and we should not try and force it to be short. It is the ever-changing landscape of purification and opening within us. We just take it all in stride and easily favor our practice without trying to over-control what is happening according to some desired outcome we might glimpse. That can only work against our progress. So we just take it easy and favor the procedure of the practice.
One thing I have said about all the AYP practices is that redesigning them while practicing based on subjective experiences occurring during practice is not a good idea. The experience will always be changing, and the practice should not be changing to follow the experience. Otherwise, we will become like a leaf in the wind, changing our practice every time the winds of inner experience shift. The experience results from the practice, not the other way around. The practice is sufficiently flexible to allow a wide range of experiences. When we realize we are off into an experience (making our strategies, etc.), we just easily come back and favor the practice as we were instructed. That is nearly always the case.
The exception in AYP is "self-pacing," where we may scale back on our practice time for a while if there is excess purification and discomfort occurring in our nervous system. We self-pace with practices for maximum progress with comfort and safety. Self-pacing is an important aspect of AYP, because we are using many powerful practices in an integrated self-directed way. Self-pacing enables us to navigate with much more horse-power in practices than is possible with more rigid approaches. The result of this flexible high-powered approach is much faster progress, and with more comfort as we develop skill in self-pacing our practices effectively.
Another thing to keep in mind in sutra repetition in samyama, particularly if the pronunciation is elongating, is a tendency we all have to "contemplate" the meaning of the sutra on the conscious level of the mind. As you know, samyama is not contemplation. We just pick up the sutra and release it in stillness. Based on our long familiarity with language (in AYP, sutras are suggested to be in our first language) we know subconsciously what it is deep in our inner silence. This is where the sutra finds its manifestation -- in stillness, gradually cultivating "stillness in action."
The fruit of samyama practice is not to be found in the meaning or expression (siddhi) of any particular sutra, but in our gradually rising ability to engage as stillness in action in our daily life with all intentions we have. So, structured samyama practice is not about enunciating any particular sutra or intention, but to gradually develop the ability to naturally manifest all our intentions from within stillness in everyday life. It is about becoming stillness in action. Structured samyama practice plays a key role in bringing about the condition of abiding inner silence, ecstatic bliss, outpouring divine love, and unity ... a life filled with many small miracles, and some big ones too.
There are additional applications of samyama practice provided in the AYP Samyama book. You may find it an interesting read.
Wishing you all the best on your path. Enjoy!
The guru in is you.
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 7:10:09 PM
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Quote:
One thing I have said about all the AYP practices is that redesigning them while practicing based on subjective experiences occurring during practice is not a good idea. The experience will always be changing, and the practice should not be changing to follow the experience. Otherwise, we will become like a leaf in the wind, changing our practice every time the winds of inner experience shift. The experience results from the practice, not the other way around. The practice is sufficiently flexible to allow a wide range of experiences. When we realize we are off into an experience (making our strategies, etc.), we just easily come back and favor the practice as we were instructed. That is nearly always the case.
Thank you for the above. It answers many of the questions I had. Now I don't have to ask them. Like when you previously said it is not always in our best interest to automatically do automatic yoga movements. Am I right in seeing this as a similar situation?
Thanks.
Love to all,
Jill |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2008 : 10:10:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jillatay
...Like when you previously said it is not always in our best interest to automatically do automatic yoga movements. Am I right in seeing this as a similar situation?
Hi Jill:
Yes. Though there is a lot spiritual potential in all of us (sometimes quite visible), we will be able to move the fastest by using an efficient routine of practices. Sort of like burning gasoline in a car rather than throwing it on the ground and setting it on fire. It is all about maximizing fuel efficiency, in this case for our ongoing purification and opening.
The guru is in you.
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 08:00:45 AM
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Hi all,
I am somewhat like you emc. I get lost sometimes and have to try to remember where I was.
"Lets see, love, radiance, unity, oh yea, wisdom, OK, wisdom.........
I do the same thing with my breath as you do with counting numbers.
Sometimes I am aware enough that as soon as I recognize the subtle impulse of the thought of the sutra, I can let it go. It is like as subtle as I can get. My attention just barely touches it as it rises up and lets it go. It is nothing more than recognition.
If I am not aware enough to do that, I reach what I have come to call the announcement phase where it is not very subtle at all, and I consciously collect my attention and announce the sutra in my mind and send it off. That usually happens after I have drifted off and come back.
quote:
Sparkle wrote:
My method of samyama is just saying the word without attaching any feeling or meaning to it whatever and let it go into the silence.
That is how I conceive of what I am doing in samyama as well. But I don't notice much in between the reps as far as feelings or colors go.
Also, I don't seem to go from short to long repetition. My variation is between soft and loud as mentioned above. My thought is that with continued practice it will all reach the impulse stage.
Questions for you, Yogani. I find the sutra, inner sensuality kind of clunky. It is harder for me to simply touch it. I think because it has 6 syllables. I suppose there is no way around this?
Same goes for the last one. Is it OK to shorten the last sutra to "inner space?" That seems the most user friendly to me.
Sometimes the next sutra or a different sutra rises up before it is time for it to do so, according to my inner clock. What to do with this?
Thanks, yb. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 10:45:41 AM
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Hi YB, emc and All:
The drifting and changes occurring in samyama practice that you describe are normal parts of the purification process. It is natural for the mind to want to add strategies to try and counteract the changes, but the strategies must be let go of too, sooner or later. In time, it all settles in and we find that staying with the original procedure has been the best way all along. Just keep that in mind, and all will work out in time. Samyama tends to have a bigger clunky stage than other practices. This too shall pass, and stillness will rise in all our actions!
On changing sutras based on what feels right, this is altering the practice to suit the subjective experience, which has already been discussed above. Of course, we are all free to tinker as we please, but that will be our research. I do not know the effects of all possible causes in practice.
Maybe go back to Patanjali's Yoga Sutras (Chap 3) and check his original samyama sutras. There is an interpretation of Patanjali's 30 samyama sutras in the appendix of the AYP Samyama book, designed to be an aid for research by well-established practitioners.
Maybe better to wait on altering sutras, at least until past the clunky stage with AYP core samyama practice. It is not necessary to change the core practice sutras at all, but everyone has their own inclinations.
Rather than reinventing core samyama practice, the suggestion is to move to additional applications of samyama once core practice is smooth and stable, i.e., cosmic samyama, asana samyama, prayer samyama, action samyama, and so on, moving steadily toward the actualization of "stillness in action" in daily living.
It's your call, of course. Practice wisely, and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 12:26:05 PM
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Sometimes when it comes time for a new sutra a strange random word pops into my head. What's this?
Jill |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 12:46:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jillatay
Sometimes when it comes time for a new sutra a strange random word pops into my head. What's this?
Jill
Hi Jill:
Purification!
Just ease back to the procedure of the practice, including the sutras.
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 3:23:14 PM
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| Yogani, this is really interesting. Are you saying that it's better to say only one, two or a few sutras and then pass out and wake up 15-20 min later and take a few minutes resting time and consider that to be the samyama session for today, rather than trying to keep aware and say all nine sutras? That would really be a relief if that is considered to be a proper samyama session. Then I can stop counting and just wait for this phase to pass! Have I gotten you right on that? |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 3:52:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Yogani, this is really interesting. Are you saying that it's better to say only one, two or a few sutras and then pass out and wake up 15-20 min later and take a few minutes resting time and consider that to be the samyama session for today, rather than trying to keep aware and say all nine sutras? That would really be a relief if that is considered to be a proper samyama session. Then I can stop counting and just wait for this phase to pass! Have I gotten you right on that?
Hi emc:
Yes, you have it right.
There is no time limit for doing core samyama practice, unless in group practice and/or adhering to a schedule is necessary, of course.
Practically speaking, if you have 10 minutes for samyama and only get through a few sutras in that time, it is fine to lie down and rest whenever you realize your self-appointed time is up. You should not force yourself to do all the sutras in a fixed time frame, devising mental strategies to by-pass the natural purification and opening that is occurring. Just take it easy and enjoy. Samyama practice will smooth out in time, and there will be more awareness of the time and the sutras in turn.
The guru is in you.
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nical ecs
Sweden
3 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 4:21:23 PM
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Hello everybody, my problems with samyama have been these:
- Bringing contemplation into practice
- Not letting go easily/clinging on to the words, instead trying to "fill" them with meaning/feeling/intuition
- !...zzz...?...!...zzz...?...!...?...zzz
The first two were mostly dealt with by reading Yogani´s book "Samyama - Cultivating Stillness in Action, Siddhis and Miracles". This book is so good, and very informative regarding context (yogic philosophy) and non-dual dynamics. It made me understand how samyama practice is about establishing pathways for spontaneous expression from within in general, not about amplifying this or that concept - unlike many other, non-yogic affirmative/projective techniques. Most of my bad habits in samyama practice stemmed from slipping into the intentions of the latter kind, consciously or not.
For dealing with falling asleep I found another method, of an outlaw variety.
Initially samyama was a powerful practice for me. Especially since it turned out to be "the last bit of the puzzle" in terms of dealing with an over-abundance of pranic energy starting about a year ago. After adding samyama to the routine my "headspace" increased almost explosively (not in the "Scanners" way, though), tensions smoothed out and bliss moved in in a way that has made me faithful to the practice since then, through ups and downs. Yes, I love my samyama!
So, after this "beginner´s luck" abandoned me and I had a phase of falling asleep instead. Similarly to what emc and yogibear relates above, I found it nearly impossible to keep track of time while constantly going into sleep/trance/hypnagogic imagery. I´d be struggling like a fish on land just to remember which word to pick up next. I tried to remedy this situation by cutting down the ordained 15 seconds to about 5 for a couple of sessions. I reasoned it would be better to be able to stay awake all the way through a shortened and incorrectly exercised practice than keeping it up with such an absurd amount of effort and confusion. This strategy turned out to be successful. When I later increased to 15 again, I seemed to have tricked myself, seeing that the aquired habit of staying awake persisted.
By the way, I´ve followed AYP in the recommended order for a little less than a year now, starting it off very slowly shortly after a dramatic K opening. I´ve consulted the forum now and then, but this is my first post here.
I want to express my gratitude to Yogani and those who have helped him provide all the information and guidance on this site, forumites included. The experimental and pragmatic approach around here is deeply appreciated! See you around. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2008 : 10:27:12 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Thanks for the advice, clarifications and recommendations on practice in your posts. I will stick with the basic sutras as you give them.
Best, yb. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2008 : 12:59:46 AM
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Thank you, Yogani! This is beginning to get really amusing. This is yet another thing I've not been doing "right", in addition to all my misunderstandings about deep meditation and pranayama. I wonder what on earth is bringing me forward anyway...?!?! LOL!
nical ecs, welcome to the forum! Nice to see yet another country fellow in here. Thanks for bringing your perspective.
Ahh... now I'll lean back during samyama and just relax. Phew! What great info! Thanks again, especially to UniversalMind who brought this up!
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Edited by - emc on May 30 2008 01:00:25 AM |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2008 : 08:11:06 AM
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Hi all,
Just a PS.
I found good explanation for the last 2 sutras in lessons 151-153 and in the text prior the listing of all of Patanjali's sutras in Yogani's Samyama book in case anyone else is interested.
Best, yb. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2008 : 09:10:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nical ecs
Hello everybody, my problems with samyama have been these:
- Bringing contemplation into practice
- Not letting go easily/clinging on to the words, instead trying to "fill" them with meaning/feeling/intuition
- !...zzz...?...!...zzz...?...!...?...zzz
The first two were mostly dealt with by reading Yogani´s book "Samyama - Cultivating Stillness in Action, Siddhis and Miracles". This book is so good, and very informative regarding context (yogic philosophy) and non-dual dynamics. It made me understand how samyama practice is about establishing pathways for spontaneous expression from within in general, not about amplifying this or that concept - unlike many other, non-yogic affirmative/projective techniques. Most of my bad habits in samyama practice stemmed from slipping into the intentions of the latter kind, consciously or not.
For dealing with falling asleep I found another method, of an outlaw variety.
Initially samyama was a powerful practice for me. Especially since it turned out to be "the last bit of the puzzle" in terms of dealing with an over-abundance of pranic energy starting about a year ago. After adding samyama to the routine my "headspace" increased almost explosively (not in the "Scanners" way, though), tensions smoothed out and bliss moved in in a way that has made me faithful to the practice since then, through ups and downs. Yes, I love my samyama!
So, after this "beginner´s luck" abandoned me and I had a phase of falling asleep instead. Similarly to what emc and yogibear relates above, I found it nearly impossible to keep track of time while constantly going into sleep/trance/hypnagogic imagery. I´d be struggling like a fish on land just to remember which word to pick up next. I tried to remedy this situation by cutting down the ordained 15 seconds to about 5 for a couple of sessions. I reasoned it would be better to be able to stay awake all the way through a shortened and incorrectly exercised practice than keeping it up with such an absurd amount of effort and confusion. This strategy turned out to be successful. When I later increased to 15 again, I seemed to have tricked myself, seeing that the aquired habit of staying awake persisted.
By the way, I´ve followed AYP in the recommended order for a little less than a year now, starting it off very slowly shortly after a dramatic K opening. I´ve consulted the forum now and then, but this is my first post here.
I want to express my gratitude to Yogani and those who have helped him provide all the information and guidance on this site, forumites included. The experimental and pragmatic approach around here is deeply appreciated! See you around.
Hi nical ecs, and welcome!
At the risk of contradicting myself (and confusing emc! ), let me say there is some merit in the interim strategy you mentioned of temporarily shortening the time between sutras until the question marks are gone, going from this:
!...zzz...?...!...zzz...?...!...?...zzz
to this:
!...zzz...!...zzz...!...zzz
and eventually to this:
!......!......!......
I think one of the reasons samyama remains "clunky" longer than other practices is the time it takes to have the sequence of sutras memorized to the point where they come up automatically, particularly in stillness when the practitioner is "zoning out" or "falling asleep" between repetitions due to purification and/or samadhi. Not a bad thing, but still the next sutra will be needed, and if we are into an internal dialog (the question mark) every time about remembering and recovering the sutra at whatever level in consciousness we happen to be, rather than picking it up automatically, then there is part of the clunkiness. Once sutra recall becomes automatic at all levels, then that part of the clunkiness is gone.
Doing a more rapid repetition of sutras for a while can help ingrain the entire sutra sequence deep in the mind. As long as we are able to return to normal times of stillness in-between, then all will be fine. Of course, the sequence of sutras can also be repeated rapidly outside samyama practice for memorization purposes. In time, such exercises become moot, because the sutras come automatically. This is also a reason why we do not keep switching the sutras around, so the whole thing will become automatic is stillness. Over the long term, an established series of sutras will become very subtle and deep in samyama practice, facilitating the ongoing process of "stillness in action" in our daily life, much the way long term deep meditation leads to abiding inner silence 24 hours per day.
The main thing is to not get hung up on interim strategies, because samyama is about subtle catch and then release in stillness, with the release being the essence of samyama practice, not the sutra itself. Samyama is not about counting, contemplation, or roaring through the sutras in a minute. Of these, the temporary more rapid repetition of sutras, either inside or outside practice, can support memorization and automatic picking up of the sutras, thus providing a means for building smoothness into the process of samyama.
No matter how we approach it, there will be some time of settling in involved as we move forward with core samyama practice. I don't think we have to be extremely rigid about how the practitioner moves through it, as long as no permanent diversions develop, and effective samyama practice is the result.
And, yes, emc, we can still stop in the middle of sutras when our self-determined time is up. It is good practice. Hopefully this added discussion will help clarity rather than confuse.
Thanks much for chiming in and sharing, nical ecs. We are always looking for better understandings of what we are doing in practices -- optimizing cause and effect.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2008 : 3:56:26 PM
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Oh dear... where did that headache come from?
I'll let go of the counting for a while and try that. We'll se where it goes from there...
Thanks Yogani, I'm sure it will get clearer... someday... |
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nical ecs
Sweden
3 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2008 : 4:44:05 PM
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Thank you, emc and Yogani, for kindly welcoming me to the forum - and thanks for the feedback!
Apropos:
While reading Samyama, Cultivating Stillness..., in Chapter 3 - Expanded Applications, the part about Prayer and the Principles of Samyama, I tried to get a feel for structured samyama and stillness in everyday life, by coming up with the following metaphor.
I imagine being about to throw an antique coin into a wishing well.
The wish is engraved on the coin in a foreign language I do not understand. But once I did, so it´s ok.
I do not think of the act as an investment - the value, also, is there whether one thinks about it or not.
I just weigh the coin in my hand - then release it, while trying to be as still as the reflecting water.
If your well runs dry, try with a parking meter.  |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2008 : 08:12:29 AM
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Hi nical ecs,
Pardon me for neglecting to welcome you to the forum as well. And thanks for bring up your strategy of shortening the length of time between sutra repetition during the clunky phase. It is good to know that that is strategy with some merit.
I like your analogy of releasing our sutras coins into the wishing well of inner silence, too.
Best, yb. |
Edited by - yogibear on May 31 2008 08:16:28 AM |
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samyama confusion
