|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Adam West
23 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 06 2005 : 10:57:32 PM
|
Hi all,
What a great forum we have moved to! Thought you might enjoy the perspective of a leading technical mystic from Europe :-) My best to you all!
In the kindest possible regards,
Adam.
<MODERATOR's note: I've replaced Adams quote with links, because it was too long for a posting where links were available>
The Mystery Of Meditation
by Dinu Roman
http://www.natha.fi/English/article...ditation.htm
OR
http://www.taracentre.com/what_is_meditation.htm
|
Edited by - n/a on Aug 07 2005 09:29:26 AM |
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2005 : 12:25:26 AM
|
Adam,
welcome back to the board --- we have not heard from you in a while.
Ummmm, Dinu Roman's treatise on meditation --- I have to say I think there is a lot of bull**** in it. Perhaps he is a 'leading technical mystic', but what is 'technical mysticism' leading to then?
We have the word 'verbiage' -- I honestly think this is a lot of verbiage -- or maybe we should have a word 'conceptiage' for the equivalent of verbiage in concepts themselves.
I mean that the author is trying to get some kick out of thinking he/she is capturing enlightenment/meditation in some tightly-woven intellectual exposition. And then going into hyperbole about a bunch of vague and somewhat garbled ideas.
It's called 'The mystery of Meditation' -- it could be better titled 'Lemme take the mystery out of meditation fer ya, and then we'll feel like we know a lot'.
Will that work help people make progress in mediation? I don't think it has a chance. Partially because it is just wrong in so many ways.
I'll mention a few.
>> We saw that dhyana (meditation) is the continuous flow of mental processes toward the object of meditation. This process leads gradually to a blissful identification (co-penetration of the object of meditation with the practitioner's own being). This is the highest state, called samadhi. In samadhi the mind, continuously and to the exclusion of all other objects, assumes the nature and becomes one with the object.
>> In samadhi, only the object awareness remains, as if the consciousness of individuality disappears. Actually, the individuality of the practitioner does not disappear (it would be impossible !), but the practitioner's consciousness blissfully identifies with the object of meditation. In samadhi, the mind and consciousness of the yogin become one with the object.
This is very much mistaken. Samadhi is deep inner silence. The is no object in the purest, truest samadhi. It is pure consciousness. Samadhi is not 'blissful identification'. Blissful identification may be nice and good and worthy. And it may be a goal or a milestone in certain meditation schools. But it ain't the 'Samadhi' of the yoga tradition.
Samadhi blissful identification
In the Western Tradition, these three stages are called consideratio ("considering"), contemplatio ("contemplation") and raptus ("rapture").
Big mistake there. Samadhi does not correspond to that 'contemplatio' thing at all of the western traditions. This is the kind of thing when scholars/pundits try to draw correspondence lines between unequal concepts between different traditions to pull them into neat analytical categories.
It goes from bad to worse:--
To understand samyama easier, let's make an analogy with a motion-picture film.
Let's suppose you can stop the film on a certain frame (a single exposure) that shows the main protagonist. Thus you can study as long as you want the motionless frame. This stage corresponds to dharana (concentration).
Then you let the movement of the movie start again. You are able now to follow the image you have studied during the stopping of the film, to see the links of that image with the action of the movie, to integrate that image into a continuous flow of action. This stage corresponds to dhyana (meditation).
Following the action of the movie, you participate emotionally, you identify yourself with what happens (you feel sad if it is a tragedy, you laugh if it is a comedy, etc.). This identification corresponds to the beginning of samadhi.
That one is so, so wrong, I'm afraid. What he has described here is much more like what is happening to a person in the ordinary state, all the time. Samadhi is more analogous to the screen turning pure-white, and there being no activity of any kind of identification whatsoever--- there is ONLY the whiteness of the screen. No emotion, no identification, nothing, just pure consciousness, silent awareness, whiteout of screen. And the screen means everything of the conscious experience in this analogy --- so the identification process itself is part what is appearing on the screen, and it too is 'whited out' in the truest, purest samadhi. Of course, this is only an analogy -- in practice, the identification process is, shall we say, sort of 'silenced out', or 'stillnessed out', rather than 'whited out'.
Honestly, I think he has cobbled together a bunch of theories about what meditation and enlightenment is all about, without necessarily having any very deep experience and understanding of them.
This work might be fine if the author did try to associate their understanding of certain aspects of the meditation process with the milestones of the yogic tradition, using the yogic words 'samadhi' and 'samyama'. The meaning of these words has been totally garbled.
Let's examine in greater detail dharana. Empty your mind of all thoughts. Then bring the chosen object before your inner mind's eye. Don't allow the mind to jump to another object or thought. If this happens, calmly and patiently bring your mind back to your object.
On a practical side, I have to say that this meditation instruction is different and 'not right' from the point of view of our mantra yoga practice. Note the underlined piece. That could spoil your mantra yoga meditation if you take it onboard. There is no 'don't allow the mind...' in our mantra yoga. That seems trivial, but it is not at all trivial in the long-term. In fact, it goes directly to the mistake that many people make in mantra yoga. This instruction (whether expressed to the meditator or 'made up' by the meditator) creates a kind of tension in meditation which is very hard to get rid of.
No, no, no. This isn't personal Adam, but I have to try to put that work in its place. Feel free to disagree. 
Well, this is what happens when a work is put up on the board for sharing ideas -- sometimes it will get shot down. And that putting-up and shooting down can be instructive and positive. All part of the activity of the free marketplace of ideas. And of course, anyone is free to disagree (strongly) with what I am saying. That's part of what the board is for.
-David
quote:
Originally posted by Adam West
Hi all,
What a great forum we have moved to! Thought you might enjoy the perspective of a leading technical mystic from Europe :-) My best to you all!
In the kindest possible regards,
Adam.
The Mystery Of Meditation
by Dinu Roman
|
Edited by - david_obsidian on Aug 07 2005 09:21:53 AM |
 |
|
|
Adam West
23 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2005 : 09:17:07 AM
|
Hi David,
I am very glad you seem to be enjoying yourself... this is a great board :-) I very much enjoyed your enthusiastic response to Dinu's views... I see what you mean.. and it does bring a smile to my face also... though that is true of most of the works I come across.. including the post s on this board at times too ;-) I feel a balance of views is the only way to maintain our psychological health, thus we are assured of staying clear of the trap of fanaitcalism and dogma :-) It is good to be back!
In the kindest possible regards,
Adam.
|
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2005 : 10:00:29 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~
Hello Folks, I saw this post and thought to add just one item.
This is not a "dog-pile" email ( that is all jump on one person
and critique it to death) but on one salient item re:
Dinu Roman's treatise on meditation.
David's assessment is correct " This is very much mistaken. Samadhi is deep inner silence. The is no object in the purest, truest samadhi. It is pure consciousness.".
The point I thought would add to the conversation is the notion of
"object" - i.e. only the object awareness remains.
That infers that there is two - an object and a subject. Samadhi is
the absence of all Duality ( subject/object).
Another point to consider - Samadhi [ from dha= "to hold" and a+sam= "together completely"] comes in two flavors according to
Rshi Patanjali: with knowledge of objects (samprajnata Samadhi) and
without any knowledge of objects (a-samprajnata Samadhi).
This can be reviewed in Chapt I starting with sutras 17 and onward.
I prefer asamprajnata ( not that i have a choice!:>) ] - in this state there are no fluxuations of the mind and leads to liberation
or Kaivalya.
regards and pranams,
Frank in San Diego
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
The mystery of Meditation
